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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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File: 1768762741647.jpg (149.25 KB, 857x500, 1764957866973.jpg)

 

Previous thread:
>>2535127

So give the fact US invasion of Greenland went from provocative joke to a realistic possibility, what are the chances of European governments getting their shit together?
127 posts and 17 image replies omitted.

>>2659396
>>2659398
I just watched:
>>2659378
He seemed alright. He said some real stuff and smart stuff. I guess he's hawking his book and his theory on "Values based realism." Seemed like it was nothing new really, and just a way to openly be like "well I can't actually follow my values in words or actions, because sometimes you have to be a realist man!" I guess like it seems like just an elaborate excuse for pragmatism and acting like it's a new invention, but he kinda said some stuff. But as he said "there are things I can't say in public because of diplomacy" or whatever. Still he was pretty interesting to listen to and he is kinda charming. Seems like an okish guy.

>>2659406 me
>>2659404
Also add I know nothing about him or the Finnish domestic politics or anything. The way he laid it out:
>In Finland, the president handles foreign policy, and the prime minister handles EU policy.
Which I would've assumed includes domestic? He seemed to present that he only handles foreign policy.

NATO holding press conference now.

>>2659406
>Values based realism.
He wants to have his cake and eat it too by trying to pretend we can keep some moral superiority as an "enlightened" nordic country but also that we have to align with the bloodthirsty american and israeli foreign policy. It's cope to try and pretend that facade of the "rules based" international order still exists.
>>2659407
Well the finnish constitution states that the president leads foreign pollicy in conjuction with the state council (government), it's unclear wording that leads to a bit of a tug of war between the two institutions but in general the president is in charge as long as he doesn't start going off the rails.
As for why I don't like him it's beacuse he's a memebr of the neolib party and was part of the first attempt to impose auterity in finland as part of the sipilä goverment (before he was also the prime minister of his own rump government after the previous pm jumped ship and abandoned finland to become an eu official) before the absolute nightmare that our current goverment is. After the sipilä goverment he ran off to italy to be a professor and then returned only when offered the presidential candidacy by his party and as the other finn anon said won cause the other candidate was a gay guy.

>>2659236
>The problem is that Latam agriculture porkies wholesale their products internationally due to ridiculously low wages there.
not a problem at all unless you own a farm
>That's bad for the wages within the agricultural sector over here as our farmers will either keep importing cheap seasonal labour from Eastern Europe or effectively stagnate and/or lower our wages using different means while they keep raising prices for their products which keeps fueling inflation.
What would happen is capitalism finally runs its course and gets rid of the European agricultural sector entirely as these jobs would not exist without subsidies. That's a good and positive development. Maybe proles in Europe will finally have a revolution when all the jobs inevitably get taken away. The endpoint of capitalism was ALWAYS the jobs all getting innovated away, europes stupid protectionism measures are only delaying the inevitable. Why on earth would anyone want European stable? Let Latam porky run the imperialists out of business so their proles can actually stand up and do something 🤣🤣🤣

Z Man just finished his speech and now he's doing the Q and A. He just spent the whole time sucking Trump's dick and saying how weak and cowardly Euros are.

>>2659261
uh oh someone needs to brush up on theory

Engels:
>Protection is at best an endless screw, and you never know when you have done with it. By protecting one industry, you directly or indirectly hurt all others, and have therefore to protect them too. By so doing you again damage the industry that you first protected, and have to compensate it; but this compensation reacts, as before, on all other trades, and entitles them to redress, and so on ad infinitum.

>Whether you try the Protectionist or the Free Trade will make no difference in the end, and hardly any in the length of the respite left to you until the day when that end will come. For long before that day will protection have become an unbearable shackle to any country aspiring, with a chance of success, to hold its own in the world market.


Free trade is inevitable for Europe if it wants to be competitive on the global market

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1888/free-trade/

euro 'leftists' are shocked that the neoliberal eu is taking neoliberal measures

>>2659483
>free trade in 1888 is the same as free trade today
you aware that little things like capital controls still existed in that old "free trade", and the modern globalization was still very far away right? you also noticed all the industrial powerhouse states built up afterwards used protectionism to build it up Im sure?

>>2659467
>gets rid of the European agricultural sector entirely. That's a good and positive development.
Im sure both the europeans loosing food security and the other countries relying on cheap agricultural imports will be very happy about this development. One of the biggest tool of imperialism and neocolonialism is food needing to be imported.
But why would workers want food security anyway? anything that hurt workers is good because it makes a theoretical revolution (that you're not anywhere near building) closer.

>jobs all getting innovated away

90% of farmer jobs have already been "innovated away", this is about concentrating agro industry towards more environmentally harmful, more centralized in a globalized world, less healthy and more profitable prospects.

>>2659518
>you aware that little things like capital controls still existed in that old "free trade"
incorrect, pre-1914 Germany had no capital controls and was a major capital exporter

>you also noticed all the industrial powerhouse states built up afterwards used protectionism to build it up Im sure?

communist China has free trade and it went from poorer than sub-sahara africa in the 90's to controlling the global economy in less than 30 years

>One of the biggest tool of imperialism and neocolonialism is food needing to be imported.

You have it backwards. European neo-colonialism involves exporting european grain to countries like Africa in exchange for cash crops that can't be grown in europe. Africa can grow both, it doesn't need european grain, it would be beneficial for the world if the euros stopped exporting agricultural products that everyone grows cheaper automatically

>But why would workers want food security anyway? anything that hurt workers is good because it makes a theoretical revolution (that you're not anywhere near building) closer.

show me a revolution that involves fat, happy and secure proletarians OK with the status quo. i can wait

>this is about concentrating agro industry towards more environmentally harmful, more centralized in a globalized world, less healthy and more profitable prospects

no this is about saving unproductive industry in a part of the world where it shouldn't exist. Try reading Lenin to understand why centralization is good

>but we'll get less healthy!!!!

>but latam porky will make money from us!!!!!!
>but cows and sugar beets from foreign lands are not grown ethically!!!! we are an ethical peoples!!!!!
euros have been forcing their products on the rest of the world for centuries but the moment it happens to them they start crying and shaking. What a coincidence that these are the SAME ARGUMENTS european porky make when he has to compete with foreigners. Thems the breaks.

>>2659529
>communist China has free trade
nta but no? Communist china for example blocked or restrained certain internet and tech companies from competiting in china (great firewall).
While on one hand this was for national security purposes in the other hand this pretty much helped chinese tech companies.

>>2659537
America has 14 active free trade agreements, China has 23, almost double

>>2659542
that doesnt change the fact selective trade protectonism works? Nations can choose a mixture of protectonism and free trade. It depends on the industry, the time, and the context. China for example as I pointed in my example did engage in free trade but still used protectonism in certain key strategic industries.

>>2659537
yup solar panels and car battery were also so heavily subsidised nobody on the planet can compete with them in that domain

>>2659544
if you wanna be needlessly pedantic about it than sure, every nation can benefit from both free trade and protectionism depending on their long term goals. I'm not saying protectionism is bad in every scenario, the point of the argument was to do away with the notion that the agribusiness industry in europe is worth saving. There's no point in protecting it since it can't even compete at a global price point with top tier tech, subsidies and trade protection all contributing

>>2659550
>point of the argument was to do away with the notion that the agribusiness industry in europe is worth saving. There's no point in protecting it since it can't even compete at a global price point with top tier tech, subsidies and trade protection all contributing
which is why I specified im not that anon. i wasnt arguing with you on this. I was just disagreeing with the whole china became rich with free trade idea. China also used protectonism to develop key industries.
>>2659549
true

>>2659553
China would not be as rich as it was today without free-trade and open markets, that's just a fact. Dengs reforms are what gave them control over the global economy (see the threats they made about export controls on rare earths). nobody in their right mind would say China got rich from the Great Firewall lmao, but it certainly helped

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>>2659558
>China would not be as rich as it was today without free-trade and open markets
But china also became rich because their infant industry protectonism made strategetic industries competitive in those same open markets. Opening up markets can lead to wealth i agree but becoming competitive in those markets through the use of protectonism (to build up infant industries) helps a lot too
>it certainly helped
yes. Both protectonism and free trade work together to make china rich. They work hand to hand

>>2659558
>>2659553
>>2659550
>>2659549
the PRC, just like 19th and 20th Century Britain, used a combination of Free Trade and Protectionism in a way which benefits them.
When Britain could flood the colonies with their cheaper goods, they extolled Free Trade. When German Industry was in a position to do the same to Britain, Britain then engaged in full protectionism with the home country.

Wield both the long and short sword as the situation demands, and you will win. Be a vassal like Europe and Japan, and you will lose.


>>2659529
> What a coincidence that these are the SAME ARGUMENTS european porky make
You are arguing the EXACT SAME arguments EU, Latam and other haute bourgeois make for fucking with worker's conditions this entire thread, what's more you are arguing FOR worsening the living living standard of workers in general. You're either a neolib troll, bourgeois shill or a massive retard. In any case i recommend you shoot yourself in the foot so you can run faster towards socialism or even better, go ahead and kill yourself.

>>2659587
>what's more you are arguing FOR worsening the living living standard of workers in general
what part of turning the inevitable "imperialist war" into a "civil war" don't you understand? It's never going to get better until things get worse

>>2659529
>pre-1914 Germany had no capital controls
wrong, they had capital control. Not as much as afterward, but it still existed. And it also had tariffs anyway, so it certainly wasnt free trade in the modern sense

>communist China has free trade

lmao no it absolutely hasnt, one of the most common accusation against china for the last 20 years was that they werent playing the fair free trade game with all their rules and controls
they also became the industrial powerhouse of the world, but thats not "controlling the global economy", the west still have the upper hand on that front

>European neo-colonialism involves exporting european grain to countries like Africa in exchange for cash crops that can't be grown in europe.

well yes, thats exactly what I just said. And another reason why free trade is bad.

>Africa can grow both

yes, Im sure egypt or saudi arabia can easily grow enough to feed their population. Oh shit no they cant even if they wanted.
But anyway thats just missing the point : is africa in a political position to stop cash crops and feed itself instead? no. If euro stopped exporting, would these countries feed themselves? no, other exporters would replace it, because the problem is precisely that neocolonialism rely on imposing free trade to destroy local agro markets and replace them with export oriented cash crops, to the detriment of the state stability and independence.

>everyone grows cheaper automatically

what? the reason it destroy local markets is because the massively and subsidized industrialized agroproduction imports cant be competed by local farmers who have to turn to cash crops instead

> i can wait

so you conclude that bad things are actually good because people need to be discontent for change. So I guess you support the worst neolib policies possible because who knows if the discontent it creates might lead to a revolution one day?
thats so ridiculously childish and out of touch with reality and real struggle, embarrassing really. I knew already you were a retard, but that here is worse than simple stupidity.

>saving unproductive industry

you think euro farmers are "unproductive" because they respect bare minimum environmental regulation? another banger from mister "things must be as bad as possible"

>why centralization is good

And you keep championing neo colonialism, because one day the global world gov will just seize everything (you just know it, given how bad things are going to be thanks to your work), so no matters what happens before! And no matters its just a profit optimization thing and that in a communist society that prioritize high quality food rather than high quantity exports, we should do a lot more of local food production rather than keeping up the centralization

>the moment it happens to them they start crying and shaking

damn, how surprising, its just like people like to invade but dont like getting invaded, who would have thought?


>>2659666
>damn, how surprising, its just like people like to invade but dont like getting invaded, who would have thought?
Lenin was a revolutionary defeatist. Crybaby euros are frightened of their inability to compete in their own market. Just be honest and admit you'd rather have your domestic bourgeois and imperialist industry be strong, rather than weak. You are bribed by the welfare state after all.

>>2659563
>Behave, or else!
<Or else what?
>Or else I may do a symbolic act with no consequences
Is there a single person in the world that respect the EU?

>>2658309
>Farmers protest against laws that will make them broke
Yeah? And this is bad?


>>2659694
They should go broke, be bought out and consolidated into bigger more effective farms tho

>Venezuela’s Delcy Rodríguez assured US of cooperation before Maduro’s capture

>Exclusive: sources say powerful figures in the regime secretly told US and Qatari officials they would welcome Maduro’s departure


Before the US military snatched Venezuela’s president, Nicolás Maduro, earlier this month, Delcy Rodríguez and her powerful brother pledged to cooperate with the Trump administration once the strongman was gone, four sources involved at high levels with the discussions told the Guardian.

Rodríguez, who was sworn in on 5 January as acting president to replace Maduro, and her brother Jorge, the head of the national assembly, secretly assured US and Qatari officials through intermediaries ahead of time that they would welcome Maduro’s departure, according to the sources.

The communications between US officials from Delcy Rodríguez, who was then Maduro’s vice-president, began in the fall and continued after Trump and Maduro spoke in a crucial phone call in late November, the Guardian has learned, in which Trump insisted that Maduro leave Venezuela. Maduro rejected the demand.

By December, one American who was involved told the Guardian that Delcy Rodríguez told the US government she was ready: “Delcy was communicating ‘Maduro needs to go.’

“She said, ‘I’ll work with whatever is the aftermath,’” another person familiar with the messages said.

The sources say Marco Rubio, Trump’s secretary of state and national security adviser, at first a skeptic about working with regime elements, came to believe that Delcy Rodríguez’s promises were the best way to prevent chaos once Maduro was gone.

The pledge of cooperation by Delcy and Jorge Rodríguez before the Maduro raid has not been previously reported. In October, the Miami Herald reported on abortive negotiations via Qatar, in which Delcy offered to act as a transitional government chief if Maduro stepped down.

Reuters reported on Sunday that Diosdado Cabello,the powerful Venezuela interior minister, who controls police and security forces, had also been in discussions with the US at a point months before the Maduro operation.

All the sources say there was a fine distinction to the agreement by Delcy Rodríguez: while the Rodríguez family promised to assist the US once Maduro was gone, they did not agree to actively help the US to topple him. The sources insist this was not a coup engineered against Maduro by the Rodríguez siblings.

Hours after the raid, Trump appeared to confirm the talks. He told the New York Post that Delcy Rodríguez was onboard. “We’ve spoken to her numerous times, and she understands, she understands.”

The Venezuelan government did not respond to emailed questions concerning this story. The White House did not respond to detailed questions.

There were many official talks between Trump officials and the Maduro-led Venezuelan government happening on top of the backchannel conversations.

Maduro himself met with Ric Grenell, a top Trump aide, just 10 days after Trump’s inauguration, to discuss US prisoners, who were quickly released.

Key Trump aides continued official talks with Jorge and Delcy Rodríguez quite often, to coordinate, for example, the bi-weekly flights of Venezuelans deported from the US, according to two sources familiar with the talks. There was a barrage of issues that had to be solved: where the deportation flights would land, the status of Venezuelans imprisoned in El Salvador and political prisoners that could be released.

Meanwhile Delcy Rodríguez retained very close personal ties with Qatar, where members of the ruling family considered her a friend, according to sources familiar with their relationship. Qatar, a key ally of the US, donated a $400m luxury jet for Trump’s use in an unprecedented gift from a foreign country to a president. It used the good will it had in Trump’s White House to open more doors for Rodríguez in secret negotiations, two of the sources said.

As the Miami Herald reported in October, Rodríguez tried to propose a transition government, led by her, that would rule Venezuela if Maduro agreed to a prearranged retirement in a presumed safe-haven. The plan fell through, and Rodríguez fiercely denounced the story, but key Americans began to think she was far from a two-dimensional dogmatic leader.

Those who know her describe a figure with disarming quirks that help her form bonds easily. She drinks champagne, has a private ping-pong coach and a tendency to challenge foreign dignitaries to games.

By October, sources say, in secret, even the Americans who were most aggressive against Maduro were open to working with her.

One factor was her promise to work with American oil, and her acquaintance with Americans in the oil business. “Delcy is the most committed to working with US oil,” an ally of hers said.

The sources said Mauricio Claver-Carone, a former Trump special envoy for Latin America who still had the ear of Marco Rubio despite being out of government, was one key backer.
The main goal for the US was stability once Maduro was out, given the predictions of civil war and chaos. Another of the sources said “the biggest thing was trying to avoid a failed state”.

It wasn’t until late fall that Delcy Rodríguez and her brother actually engaged in discussions with the US behind Maduro’s back.

Maduro spoke to Trump on the phone in November, and by the next week it was clear Maduro would not leave.

For Delcy Rodríguez it was a delicate dance. At the same time they made the offer, the sources say she did not agree to actively betray Maduro. “She feared him,” said one official familiar with the events.

When the US attack helicopters flew into Caracas in early January, Delcy Rodríguez was nowhere to be found. Rumors spread that she had fled to Moscow, but two sources say she was on Margarita Island, a Venezuelan vacation spot.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/jan/22/delcy-rodriguez-capture-maduro-venezuela


New info

>>2659740
They did something like that in France a few decade ago. Administrators who used only old and innacurate maps decided to just take the land of the peasans and to give it to the most complying farmers so they could modernize.
It was not a very popular moment.

>>2659870
And some anons here got really upset when you pointed out that Rodriguez and co had clearly sold out Maduro and stuck a deal with the Burgerreich…

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>>2659558
Being "rich" has nothing to do with having le skyscrapers and producing a lot of commodities, the USSR also took this position and it fucked them over in the long run.

>all this vegan shilling in the labor aristocrat general #2
Not surprised.

>>2660604
Get lost /pol/. Back when the SPD was still the party of revolutionary communists rather than a cesspool of porky dick riding bourgeois liberals it was by far the strongest political force in Germany that both bourgeoisie and aristocracy feared. Thanks to massive popular support in the late 19th and early 20th century there was a constant threat of an actual successful revolution taking place which would sweep both the monarchy and the bourgeoisie away. That's why Bismarck agreed to the demands of the worker's movement and introduced the welfare state (actually a worldwide novum) in the early 1880s here. Communists and Socialists forced him to do it and he did it to calm unrest and avoid an immediate revolution, not because he really cared about the working class. Bismarck was as reactionary as it can get but he was not stupid and willing to compromise. Same goes for Wilhelm II. That being said, in hindsight the Prussian monarchy and also the monarchy in my region were less cancerous and hostile to working class interests than the bourgeoisie/liberals as they would occassionaly side with the working class against the worst bourgeois. Bourgeois liberals, bourgeois conservatives, succdems/neolibs and fascists never did and never will because they all just want to become haute bourgeoisie themselves.

>>2660608
> I am too much of a spineless,comfortable hack to admit that cattle industries are an existential problem so i will just project and use this term which i do not understand but sounds smart (while eating burgers)

Kys

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>>2659870
>four sources involved at high levels with the discussions told the Guardian

>according to the sources


>the Guardian has learned


>one American who was involved told the Guardian


>another person familiar with the messages said


>The sources say


>All the sources say there


>according to two sources familiar with the talks


>according to sources familiar with their relationship


>Those who know her


>sources say, in secret


>an ally of hers said


>The sources said


>the sources say


>said one official familiar with the events


>but two sources say

>>2659681
>admit you'd rather have your domestic bourgeois and imperialist industry be strong, rather than weak
well yes, we need industry to collectivize, thats kinda the whole point of the communist project
you're really a stupid fucker

>>2662129
>we need (imperialist) industry to collectivize (at the expense of industry in the periphery)
fixed that for you

>>2662171
Why are you retards like this

>>2662076
is it the cattle industry as much as it is industry in the first place? Soybean and cane plantations are as harmful environmentally as the cattle industry. Many reason for this: Subjecthood for humans means that everything around us are objectified, and the collapse of the ritual order means that the only avenue for states to gain legitimacy is by providing as much cheap goods as possible. Noone is seriously attempting degrowth

>>2662194
Guess what? Soybeans are in no small part used to feed the cattle. >>2662194

>>2662171
>(imperialist) industry
imagine being such a moron you unironically spout shit like that

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Fellow EUroids, does your country even have any leftist parties?
Mine doesn't :(

>>2664845
is there even such a thing?

>>2664845
multiple ones even but they're all but thinly veiled political platforms for diasporas

File: 1769525299197.png (386.87 KB, 701x470, ClipboardImage.png)

>BEIJING, Jan 27 (Reuters) - China's President Xi Jinping told Finland's Prime Minister Petteri Orpo on Tuesday that Beijing was ready to work with Helsinki to uphold a U.N.-centred international system and advance a multipolar world based on economic globalisation, according to state news agency Xinhua.
MULTIPOLAR SUOMI

https://www.reuters.com/world/china/xi-says-china-finland-should-uphold-international-system-advance-multipolar-2026-01-27/

File: 1769526283239.png (641.6 KB, 1024x576, ClipboardImage.png)

India and EU announce 'mother of all trade deals'

>Delhi said almost all of its exports would get "preferential access" into the EU, with textiles, leather, marine products, handicrafts, gems and jewellery set to see a reduction or elimination of tariffs.


>"This is India's biggest free trade agreement," Modi said. "It will make access to European markets easier for India's farmers and small business. It will also boost manufacturing and services sectors. It will boost innovative partnerships."


https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crrnee01r9jo


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