>the rightoids are calling for an increase in violence
>the liberals are calling for more peace, civility, trust in institutions and VOOOting
>nihilists suddenly show up to tell everyone that everything is doomed, nothing is happening and nothing can be done
If all 3 previous conditions are met then there's a 100% chance that things are indeed happening and its now you duty as a communist to take advantage of the momentum in any way you can. Thanks for reading.
>>2666002So what are you commies gonna do?
>>2666013Gonna fuck your mom and then your sister. You can watch if you like, but it'll cost you $10.
>>2666035
Communism isn't a state of affair to be established, we take the world as it is. That's why you have to pay to watch your mom getting fucked by big commie cocks.
>>2666002the year is 2036, there is a high profile debate going on in the european parliament concerning the technical details of a law to force chinese smart heroin pumps to accept generic heroin cartridges, which the europeans claim are just as good as the vendor-locked proprietary cartridges. after a few hours, it becomes evident that the law could also affect tubi, an american company with an uncontested monopoly in the soma-as-a-service industry. this, of course, forces the intervention of the american ministry of pillaging and exfoliation, pushing for an agreement that will exempt american companies from these regulations and give tubi reparations for the emotional distress caused to shareholders. after five minutes of negotiations, minister asmongold threatens with nuclear war if the treaty isn't unconditionally and unanimously signed by every single one of the 79,150 representatives in the european parliament, by hand, in the next 3 hours
>you are here, you think something is happeningafter some rough negotiations from the europeans, the americans compromise and declare that they are willing to accept digital signatures, and give a grace period of 30 minutes
the european press observes that, in the end, the americans always chicken out. thus, the crisis is averted and the new "looting manifest under threat of extermination #10" is signed between the united states and the european union. the debate over the chinese heroin pumps will continue, now with the approval and guidance of the american tech sector, and it is expected to be ready for implementation by 2063, once all the representatives have agreed on the more complex technical details
because nothing ever happens
>>2666002our job as communists should be to radicalize as many libs as we can possibly can stoking their fears of trump and ice then maybe something can happen
>>2666102Lol. I'd read this book.
>>2666016I'd recommend you do your homework that your teacher gave you in school before fucking someone's mom on the internet
>>2666119libs are fascists and they hate communists tho
>>2666199i was a lib once really anti-communist centrist type used think and say "well both sides have good points" then a saw how the far right was funded by porky how weak "the left" became most people like communism on paper even fascists its not as hard as you think it is
>>2666207BRUTAL TRVKE
redditspeak shitlibs are insufferable and much more relevant than whatever chuds will be
>>2666199>>2666207>>2666224Yeah bro we get it you are a pick me socialist
>>2666423>prole cattlePropaganda isn't this all-mighty powerful force stronger than gravity, you know? Like sure, some proletarians might get propagandized, but the majority of the people you are describing are simply part of the middle classes and defending their own interests, not deluded proletarians or whatever.
>>2666433>describing are simply part of the middle classes and defending their own interestsThat’s the thing, they really aren’t. They just vote for “brunch” aka corporate fucking them in the ass while whispering a sweet sounding “nothing ever happens” into their ears. The people who do benefit are the exceptions, not the norm for the democrats.
>>2666439I find it hard to believe the majority of people still invested in elections, especially in developed nations, do not own any property or considerable reserves.
I'm not American but as a retail worker in a union the average immiserated worker here is more aware of how bullshit everything is than people online pretend, which is why it especially ticks me off when radlibs believe communism is about "preaching" to the "ignorant masses".
>>2666443>I find it hard to believe the majority of people still invested in electionsA good chunk aren’t actually, mostly leaning towards the youth. And support for either of the two main political parties has been dying down lately. Most still unfortunately voted last presidential election though.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/dec/13/why-eligible-voters-did-not-vote >>2666455yeah young libs are radicalizin and I've found theyre the most receptive to marxism. Everyone should be trying to go after and convert gen z and millenial liberals and apoliticals. Theyre overwhelimingly disillusioned with elections, struggling financially and have little stake in the current system.
>>2666974>unironically using the term "convert"communism isnt a religion nor an ideology. you dont go hunting for recruits for communism or try to teach it on twitter or in college. you dont preach to the prole you show them their own interests through organizing and leadership
when their movement grows strong enough, communism comes out of it, from the material needs of the working class
The proletariat literally doesn’t exist, get a new theory
>>2666997How is it racist? Do you really think workers making anywhere from 7 to 40 times the global average are the proletariat? That coal and clean energy workers even have the same interests?
>>2666983You are correct. Service sector wage slaves are not proletarians. They are ancient roman slaves. Slaves for the sake of slaves because the system is still working on the Final Solution to the Wagie Question.
>>2667079The issue with that is slav masters have a lot more capital cost than capitalists, because you’re taking the on ALL the costs of their life and reproduction
>>2666983Not in the 1st world
>Proles don't exist in the first world because their wages are too high
Amazing
>>2667097Money is capital, access to credit is capital, when a union wins their fight for more wages they’ve created a new bunch of petit bourgeois, there’s also the issue of 401ks and shares you get for working at any company for long enough, my ability to retire literally depends on the ability of blackrock to rape the world
>>2667101The sad part is that someone here will be stupid enough to believe you
>>2667101idk whos more retarded the retards who unironically believe there isnt such a thing as a reserveless propertyless wage worker (proletarian) or the retards who think wages dont factor into class
at allim only gonna post screenshots for the latter bc theyre far more insidious than third worldists who nobody takes seriously at all - and with good reason
>>2667112They don’t exist in the 1st world, that’s for sure, everyone here is some form of middle classer
>>2667111>>2667115youre describing the middle classes and then pretending they are somehow the entirety of developed nations. a majority? sure, but a bourgeois nation state
literally cannot function without a national proletariat. even israel has a proletariat, even if it consists mostly of immigrants
>you have nothing to lose but your chains
We already know this is false, they have their jobs to lose, then they become lumpen who are inherently reactionary
>>2667111Wage differentials including accrued unpaid wages in the form of pensions does not make a worker part of the petite bourgeoisie; they have no direct ownership over the sum of this capital.
That you think otherwise is ridiculous, as it is just an attempt to justify your own emotional resentment towards these individuals
>>2667117There’s no organizational capacity with immigrants because they need the jobs to send money home in the form of remittances, when Marx says proletarian he means revolutionary proletarian, if they cannot be organized, have counter incentives to overthrowing the system (literally every existing class does) then they’re not proletarian. The proletariat has not existed for decades if not a century. This isn’t even to mention mass media, automated militaries, and nuclear weapons.
>>2667119A 401k is literally an investment, it’s a stock.
>>2667119>owning stocks doesnt make you part of the middle classesmassive fucking retard here lmfao. do you losers unironically believe petit bourgeois only consists of small business owners? that would make the middle classes ridiculously small
>>2667120>when Marx says proletarian he means revolutionary proletarian? there isnt a difference lol. the proletariat is revolutionary bc theyre the only ones who associate and to whom it is a necessity to abolish class society. if they dont associate bc theyre i.e. freelancing then they arent even proletarian to begin with
>>2667122Again, owned collectively by an investment body usually in the form of a private equity group.
It is like saying that the wage workers earn makes them part of the petite bourgeoisie simply because it is paid to them by a capitalist
>>2667124Considering you can't even spell petite bourgeoisie I'll take Marx's definition of that class being defined by part ownership rather than whatever brain dead interpretation you've drawn from five minutes of perusing the manifesto
>>2667125>erm you dont actually own them according to my own ridiculous "logic"LMFAO this is seriously retarded. its like rightoids who say you dont actually own your house. do homeowners not exist by your logic either?
>>2667127>you typed petit instead of petite so i "win"peak leftoidpol
>I'll take Marx's definition try again mongoloid, marx and engels constantly referred to the proletariat as reserveless and propertyless. all these screenshots
>>2667112 are from marx and engels too 👍
>>2667124Unionization rates have gone down every year and guerrillas are all slowly dying and giving up their weapons. If the proletariat even exists, it’s clearly lost the class war and has no more capacity.
>>2667129Nothing at all refutes what I've said 👍
>Ummmmm actually home ownership makes you part of the petite bourgeoisie
Stunning comrade, stunning
>>2667125>>2667127>>2667132LMFAO you havent even demonstrated why stocks are magically exempt from being considered property
this is srsly the most retarded cope ive seen this entire week on this pseud shithole
>>2667130>guerrillaslarper alert
>>2667135take it up with engels retard 👍
>>2667136>larper alertThere’s criticisms to be made of CPP NPA and ELN but I don’t think larper is one of them
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/ch06.htmA chapter to do with the reproduction of labour according to the means of subsistence in determining its value? But wait! That would mean home ownership would be a factor…
>>2667139>>2667136Read this chapter and then continue posting your droll little screenshots of the manifesto
The fact that you think the existence of stock ownership by workers means they magically transcend their class is just as desperately stupid, fuck off and actually read Marx you cretin
LMAO i btfo'd u cus uhhhh Engels duhhhhhh!!!!
Marx and Engels are part of the albatross of dead generations worn by the living, fuck them, let’s start all over
>>2667119>>2667135I wonder why someone would even try to argue such bullshit. Surely your own class position has nothing to do with it!
I don't think you've even spent a single second analyzing why Marx even came to such conclusions and are mindlessly regurgitating some tweet you saw someplace else or some academic third-hand reading of Capital. Why the fuck would someone who owns property in whatever shape it might take even risk their life in a revolution if communism isn't even a necessity to them? Try to put 2 + 2 together next time.
Even empirical evidence is enough to prove you wrong. Even bourgeois governments realize owning a home makes citizens more invested in defending their own country and by extension the system, which is why most countries have their own policies to make it somewhat easier to be able to buy a house. And whenever shit goes down it's always the most dispossessed who actually fight to free themselves of their own chains, not the ones with property.
Do better.
>>2667146Communism isn’t a possibility because it isn’t a necessity for literally anyone
This "party and class" text has the most succinct explanation of the communist approach to class. Italian autism notwithstanding.
< Our method does not amount to a mere description of the social structure as it exists at a given moment, nor does it merely draw an abstract line dividing all the individuals composing society into two groups, as is done in the scholastic classifications of the naturalists. The Marxist critique sees human society in its movement, in its development in time; it utilises a fundamentally historical and dialectical criterion, that is to say, it studies the connection of events in their reciprocal interaction. Instead of taking a snapshot of society at a given moment (like the old metaphysical method) and then studying it in order to distinguish the different categories into which the individuals composing it must be classified, the dialectical method sees history as a film unrolling its successive scenes; the class must be looked for and distinguished in the striking features of this movement. In using the first method we would be the target of a thousand objections from pure statisticians and demographers (short-sighted people if there ever were) who would re-examine our divisions and remark that there are not two classes, nor even three or four, but that there can be ten, a hundred or even a thousand classes separated by successive gradations and indefinable transition zones.< With the second method, though, we make use of quite different criteria in order to distinguish that protagonist of historical tragedy, the class, and in order to define its characteristics, its actions and its objectives, which become concretised into obviously uniform features among a multitude of changing facts; meanwhile the poor photographer of statistics only records these as a cold series of lifeless data. Therefore, in order to state that a class exists and acts at a given moment in history, it will not be enough to know, for instance, how many merchants there were in Paris under Louis XIV, or the number of English landlords in the Eighteenth Century, or the number of workers in the Belgian manufacturing industry at the beginning of the Nineteenth Century. Instead, we will have to submit an entire historical period to our logical investigations; we will have to make out a social, and therefore political, movement which searches for its way through the ups and downs, the errors and successes, all the while obviously adhering to the set of interests of a strata of people who have been placed in a particular situation by the mode of production and by its developments. It is this method of analysis that Frederick Engels used in one of his first classical essays, where he drew the explanation of a series of political movements from the history of the English working class, and thus demonstrated the existence of a class struggle.< This dialectical concept of the class allows us to overcome the statistician’s pale objections. He does not have the right any longer to view the opposed classes as being clearly divided on the scene of history as are the different choral groups on a theatre scene. He cannot refute our conclusions by arguing that in the contact zone there are undefinable strata through which an osmosis of individuals takes place, because this fact does not alter the historical physiognomy of the classes facing one another.https://www.marxists.org/archive/bordiga/works/1921/party-class.htmAnyway Marx understood class as an amorphous phenomenon too. You can read chapter 52 of Capital volume 3 where he clearly talks about how in real life classes exist without any rigid stratification and blur lines of demarcation between them. Someone who earns a salary high enough to begin accumulating assets is obviously not a reserveless wage-labourer.
Leaving Marxological justifications aside for a moment, do you really think that someone who works at an office and can look forward to having a nice career, eventually being able to buy a home etc. has the same immediate interests and need for association as someone working in a factory? The former obviously enjoys a position of relative security. That isn't to say that homeownership automatically makes someone petty bourgeois or that one becomes petty bourgeois only when one buys a home, but you have to take factors like this into consideration. A student who takes a minimum wage job but can expect to make 200k after finishing university is also not a proletarian in any meaningful sense.
>>2667146Two paragraphs in which you essentially admit you can't provide counter factual quotes because you haven't understood the most basic premise of waged labour
Again, fuck off and read
>>2667139 specifically that part to do with historical standards.
>>2667152Working in a factory gets you a 401k and a high wage if it happens to be in the first world
>>2666002whether or not "things are happening" depends on material conditions and not your vibes observations. i presume you're referencing the events in the USA specifically minneapolis, those are just another symptomatic manifestation that conditions are advancing toward the direction of political instability. but shit has to get a lot worse for the average USAnian for any sort of radical political change to happen. and yes things can get a lot worse you have no fucking idea.
>>2667152Oops, forgot another relevant extract.
< Therefore the concept of class must not suggest to us a static image, but instead a dynamic one. When we detect a social tendency, or a movement oriented towards a given end, then we can recognise the existence of a class in the true sense of the word. But then the class party exists in a material if not yet in a formal way.>>2667101You have a weird understanding of the union form. And your criticism isn't anything new, even Marx addressed it in the 19th century already.
>>2667155Things getting worse isn’t a guarantor of anything when there’s millions of hours of distractions snd rabbit holes to go down, Marxism just being one of thousands
Hilarious that some retard is going around here having not even read the opening pages of volume 1 telling people waged labour in the imperial core is actually part of the petite-bourgeoisie
>>2667153I actually addressed your points concretely and you're shitting your pants because I didn't fucking quotemine? The absolute state of discourse here.
>>2667160It effectively is
>Nooooooo you don't understand past historical differences in the value of labour and the rate of exploitation mean that actually workers who own their homes are in fact parasites!!!!!!!!!
Can we just admit Marx was wrong?
>>2667162You haven't addressed anything.
Literally one paragraph from that chapter in Capital renders your argument defunct.
>>2667158yes. i didn't specify any outcome i only said political instability. communism (which i presume is what you meant by Marxism) is not guaranteed to come out of that political instability.
marxism is a method of analysis.
>>2667164can you actually answer why someone who owns a home would ever see it in their interest to risk losing it in protests or w/e or do you really believe posting "read marx" in the abstract constitutes a real answer lmfao
>>2667167Communism doesn’t exist outside of hunter gatherers, Marxism does and it’s part of bourgeois pro wrestling kayfabe
>>2667168Proles have their jobs to lose and will never revolt, there has never been a proletarian revolution, every revolution has been bourgeois and peasant anti colonial
>>2667168Private commodity ownership does not render someone as part of the middle class if they bear no yield from the interest in its appreciation.
Your argument boils down to the fact that actually the petite bourgeoisie are "workers who I don't like"
Fuck off and read Capital, again if needs be.
Proles can’t even reproduce themselves let alone organize to overthrow society
>>2667166>You haven't addressed anything. uyghur you're the one not saying anything at all. Can you at least post this paragraph that somehow makes reality function differently?
>>2667170And you too. This thread reads like two schizophrenics talking past each other and catching stray replies thinking they're the other schizo.
>>2667175Proles are literally each other’s competition the way capitalists are each other’s competition, they’re all mutual enemies
>>2667174I'm not even going to post it.
Read through that chapter and come to the party where Marx talks about historical standards in the determination of the value of labour. That you do not recognise that argument immediately, or this chapter, is miserable as it's the cornerstone in value theory and one of the most memorable parts.
>>2667174The reality is revolution is impossible
>>2667174>>2667178But by all means, let's post manifesto screenshots instead
>>2667172lolllllllll you didnt even try answering the question. idfc if they are petit
E bourgeois or not bc that discussion is clearly going nowhere, im asking you why in real life people who own property dont risk it by joining protesting workers
>inb4 they got brainwashed by CIA propaganda and thats why they defend their own property and status in life Uhhhhh actually the petite bourgeoisie are people that I don't like, that's what Marx meant
>>2667182There are no proletarians protesting, proles do not have time or energy to protest, they’re either at work, too tired, or too fucked up on drugs and alcohol to be anything other than passive observers of their own lives
>>2667187>bzzzt proletarians dont exist bzzzt hello chatgpt
>>2667184>no answerlmfao
>>2667178>I'm not even going to post it. LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO>>2667185i really really like how once abandoning the use of the actual terms and specifying specific real phenomena retard pseuds here immediately clamp up and cant say anything LOL
>>2667190Tell me, if proles exist, why hasn’t communism happened?
>>2667194>"trolling" is when laughing at ur pseud ass>>2667178>>2667184refusing to answer the question isnt a refutation of literally anything lol, are you 12
>>2667196what do you think of this
>>2667188 tho
>>2667178>the determination of the value of labourThis has literally nothing whatsoever to do with propertied people not going out in the streets.
Am I arguing with an LLM?
>>2667199Yes you're merely pretending to be retarded, well done
>>2667193Because proles exist
>>2667204it's equally valuable as that was
Muh petite bourgeoisie
>>2667168Can you answer me why someone who is able to work risk disabilty by joining protests?
pet eat bourgoisie
they eat pets zomg
>>2667212>why do people risk death to free themselves from immiseration>>2667203im unironically convinced its 2 bots with 2 complete opposite points of view set up by the same asshole to shit up the thread lol
>>2667203>>2667215Comedy fucking gold if this isn't a troll
>Uhhhhh actually, if you own this one very particular commodity that means you're a no no person >>2667208>abstracting a concrete situation into a vague as fuck "capitalism" to avoid answeringThis is cringe as fuck. As useless as bringing up commodity circulation when someone asks about unionization strategies.
Do something better with your life.
>>2667217>if you own this one very particular commodityfactories are just commodities too, wtf the bourgeois DO NOT EXIST??????????
>>2667218Ah yes, and I'm the LLM.
The person actually quoting passages on value theory from Capital..
Mom said you own a home so you can't be a prole any longer, it's my turn
>>2667220Factories are not capital kys
>>2667205So you agree with me that Marx was wrong about proles?
>>2667222You didn't quote anything, only mentioned Marx and Capital, which isn't a quote.
Homes are not capital. Factories are not capital. Land is not a capital. Human is not a capital.
>>2667228As a class they haven’t revolted since 1918 and it all failed, all the theory, all the orgs, all of it was for nothing, it’s all a dead end
>>2667223yeah mom did say that actually
>>2667233now try to join the dots and explain why real life doesnt work out the way youre stating
Grave plots are in fact landed property, ergo of you are not cremated you go up to join the petite bourgeoisie
>>2667234There hasn’t been any sign or struggle to imply otherwise, if it was possible it would have happened by now, even if class war was real the bourgeois would nuke the world, rendering communism impossible
>>2667236>Posts a quote he hasn't understood which proves my pointThis is literally like shooting retarded fish in a barrel
I'm actually content to let you stew in your idiocy.
Muh petite bourgeoisie
Muh home ownership
Muh LLMs
Mods permaban people arguing over the definition of proletariat
>>2667245This is exactly what the bourgeoisie wants
>>2667239can you even answer why the more dispossessed tend to put themselves at risk to protest in your own words or is being disingenuous all your peanut brain can achieve lol
>>2667245lmao like thats gonna save this pseud hole. at least we can take solace that the fate of communism does not hinge on what imageboard dwellers believe
>>2667230the proletariat does not exist. the bourgeois do not exist either. there is no more property and ownership isnt even real, people just happen to have things sometimes
>>2667248Communism doesn’t hedge on anything because it doesn’t exist outside of the animal kingdom
Everyone that isn’t in Gaza or Congo is a middle classer
>>2667251im glad under communism schizophrenics wont exist at least. maybe neither will autists if were lucky
Worker is not same as proletarian.
>>2667254Communism won’t solve the human condition, even if you lived to see it it wouldn’t fill that hole, that emptiness
>>2667248Dispossession from wage disparity is not the determinant factor in the constitution of one's historical class.
You are not part of the petite bourgeoisie simply because you own a home, and likewise the refusal to strike does not mean in your ownership of said home you are transmuted into that class.
This is such a deficient understanding of what Marx has written that your own question is belied by the very contradictions in though it poses; the basis for capitalist society is in the recognition that it posits the legal fiction given material form in the bourgeoisie individual against the collective social being of the worker as historically constituted in the general existence of the proletariat as a class.
Fuck off and actually read Capital
>>2667257>the human conditionnow this is the one thing youve mentioned that does not actually exist :)
More and more workers will be forced into proletarian conditions, though. It is inevitable.
>>2667259bourgeois individual*
>>2667260You still have a hole inside you that you use all this nonsense to distract you from, I know because I have it too
>>2667263Doesn’t matter, it doesn't change anything, you can always just take it out on your lover, a dog, or your coworkers
>>2667259Why do you insist. It is written that a proletariat is reserveless. It is so. Why do you have an issue with that?
>>2667267And again we must quote Capital for a chapter you refuse to read
>>2667139 >>2667266No such things in proletarian condition i bet. Neither of us are proletarians
>>2667259lol im gonna commend you for finally writing an actual answer but you might still be illiterate bc i stopped trying to define this or that class dozens of posts ago bc its clearly completely useless for this thread
leftypol is in a dire state if something as basic as "the poorer and dispossessed wage workers have a vested interest in challenging the system that exploits them, whereas those who own property have a stake in maintaining the status quo that benefits them" is a controversial pants-shitting statement lol
>and likewise the refusal to strike does not mean in your ownership of said home you are transmuted into that classah, things unironically Just Happen. the propertied dont strike or protest or w/e just because, for the heck of it, lmao
>>2667269If the proletariat cannot even reproduce itself, it cannot organize or overthrow society
>>2667271the proletariat doesnt need to be a majority to overthrow class society as evidenced by the russian revolution
>>2667268Yeah you are saying home ownership is for reproducing le proleriat or something sure didnt read. Still, the father who owns a home is not a proletarian i think, but his children who work are proletarians or something
>>2667274They needed the peasants to actually man and feed the army, agricultural proles have literally never launched an isurgency
>>2667275Why do you think home ownership, the possession of a commodity for its use value, means that a worker must continue to labour for a wage is no longer a member of the proletariat?
>>2667270Do you think proles by themselves have consciousness? I was told only le party is consious and that without party there is no class
>>2667279that a worker who must*
Or we can all just admit Marx and Engels were wrong and move on
>>2667273>i disagree and cant answer so you are trollingthis is soooo pathetic lmfao
imagine your serious answer to "why do the poor have a tendency to protest more" be "it has nothing to do with being poor" and no further clarification
>>2667280consciousness refers to association it doesnt mean actual consciousness you fucking retard
>>2667282midwits here dont take the analytical tools provided by marx & engels to use themselves they just see them as sources of quotes to mine out of context for internet points
>>2667285Internet communication is inherently poisonous
>>2667279Proletariat is defined as propertyless and reserveless (in aggregate?)
You can't make me read Marx, you just can't
No way Jose
>>2667288To be fair, Marx is bland, boring, and completely unrelateable to the average 21st
Century working man, sometimes he’s funny but ultimately a smug prick and a proto zionist anyway
>>2667279if a proletarian loses their job they end up homeless. if a petit bourgeois loses their job they just join the proletariat and can sell their assets to serve as a cushion during times of crisis
>>2667293You could have written this from the beginning
>waaah i am surrounded by backwards workers waaaah
Just join le party mr vanguard
>>2667295idk im not the "the proletariat doesnt exist in developed nations" moron
>>2667287And yet the chapter quoted states that the value of labour is determined by those commodities necessary for its continued reproduction, as defined historically.
Houses, being much like any other commodity, fall into that category of bundle of commodities.
You are conflating home ownership with asset speculation and rents, whereby the petite bourgeoisie sustain themselves through the parasitic extraction of surplus value by an entitlement to part of that wage, through the use of homes merely on the basis of their exchange value.
A worker may still be propertyless and own a home.
>>2667296There’s no party to join, there’s not even a union
>>2667298A proletarian has no access to credit, literally everyone in the first world has credit cards mailed to them every week, if you own a home you can borrow against its value and equity
>>2667298So workers home property is not actually a property?
>>2667297I’m that guy and I’m right, I know because I live in the first world
>>2667298>propertyless depends on what you do with your propertybelieving individual choices affect your class position is such a rarted humanism reading of marx 💔
there isnt hard lines in marxism bc its not sociology but in most cases owning a house and not having to pay rent puts you miles ahead of workers who dont. for starters, you dont have to worry about ending up in the streets if you lose your job
>>2667305>investing for a better return is proletarianare you a dengist?
>>2667305The bourgeois are in debt literally all the time
>Are you saying the petite bourgeoisie don't have credit cards
>>2667307I can see your bait coming ahead of time like I'm reading the fucking matrix
>>2667298>petite bourgeoisie sustain themselves through the parasitic extraction of surplus value by an entitlement to part of that wage, through the use of homes merely on the basis of their exchange value.If i repair shoes of others at my home for money i am not proletariat but bourgeois
>>2667307another reason sayings like "living paycheck to paycheck" are absolutely useless bc i could be a CEO and waste all my money on funko pops and still fit that phrase
>>2667311stop being a fucking baby lol
>>2667313just bc youre freelancing
>>2667313>If i repair shoes of others at my home for money i am not proletariat but bourgeoisif you do it for a LIVING then yes. as a JOB. its like calling someone doodling for fun an artist. you know communism is about work, right?
>>2667315Yeah so you agree then.
>>2667315I thought communism was about how we get out of work, out of the rat race. Why would people die for it otherwise?
>>2667315And what if i do it as a side hustle?
>>2667317Some people just want to shoot themselves
>>2667317In communism work will be lifes primary want
>>2667319Suicidal sure, but wouldn’t all this politics crap qualify more for suicide by cop? Shooting yourself is usually a private affair
>>2667320If that’s the case I am a huge anticommunist, Nazi even
>>2667298Houses are not necessary for restoring energy
>>2667317it makes no sense to bring up hobbies when the context is wage work
>>2667318how is a side hustle not work
>>2667323Have you ever tried sleeping outside? Not in tent or a cave, but actually outside
>>2667323ill tell that the next homeless person sleeping on a bench i see
>>2667325>>2667328Cant they sleep inside factory barracks?
>>2667325>>2667328Ok it was dumb post.
>>2667329Have you been to a modern factory? The only place to sit is on the forklift
>>2667331Thank you for your honesty
>>2667332No i dont work at factory. Factory work is hard you know.
>>2667334I work in a factory, it’s not hard, you’re babysitting machines and waiting for management to leave so you can drug yourself silly
>>2667336Really? Idk, the only plant here is metallurgy plant with manly proles working inside. They are bigger than average worker.
>>2667338They’re all drinking or on their phones gambling on the job, at least the night shifts are
>>2667341Nah, they work in 3 shifts and they are always near the hot furnaces. The work never stops
>>2667341Very few people who come stay there.
>>2667343I am one of these people, i work second shift, it’s not that serious, I’m almost never busy
>>2667347Yeah you work in steel plant with steel converters or something i remeber you.
>>2667349*oxygen converters.
>>2667347Well the big manly men took a look at me and said that i will not make it. They dont want people who will quit shortly after.
>>2667349I work furnaces in a steel wire plant, I don’t know what a steel converter is
>>2667356Guess i mistook you for someone else. Anyway, in that plant many people quit and few stay. A workforce elite of sorts works there.
>>2667356Guess you have high endurances and can tolerate the heat
>>2667359Here’s the really fucked up part, furnaces in steel wire factories don’t cast their heat very far at all, you have to basically be touching it to feel it’s warmth, the machines that draw wire (as in shave it to make it smaller and increase tensile strength), all electric mind you, generate and cast more heat.
>>2667361Must be induction furnaces then. They use electromagnetic induction to create an electric current and heat in metall. But i am just guessing
>>2667363Ours have hydrogen and nitrogen pipes that go into them, it’s either that or tanks full of Argon for particular alloys which are high tensile strength
>'Real Proletarian' rhetoric which implies a large percentage of wage workers are not proletarians is banned - per modocracy vote passed on 2024-12-25
>>2667382Mods aren’t automatically right just because they say so, are CEOs and cops proletarian?
>>2667385amerilards still doing the "we are the 99%!" bullshit in 20 fucking 26 apparently lmao
>>2667385CEOs is a job not a class. COP is a job not a class.
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