[ home / rules / faq / search ] [ overboard / sfw / alt ] [ leftypol / edu / labor / siberia / lgbt / latam / hobby / tech / games / anime / music / draw / AKM / ufo ] [ meta ] [ wiki / shop / tv / tiktok / twitter / patreon ] [ GET / ref / marx / booru ]

/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internet about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
Name
Options
Subject
Comment
Flag
File
Embed
Password(For file deletion.)

Check out our new store at shop.leftypol.org!


 

The USSR failed as a political experiment exactly because of its internationalist nature and because it suppressed the market mechanisms necessary for the entrepreneurship that generates economic development and social well-being. The USSR fractured exactly because it existed as a coalition of distinct national identities instead of a fully centralized and stable nationalistic project. As a result it splintered into a multitude of weak and irrelevant countries primed for exploitation by the capitalist hegemon. This is why we now see two former communist nations fighting in Ukraine; because the foolishness of Lenin decades prior created an unnecessary national identity which the American intelligence apparatus preyed upon and directed against Russia.

Instead of wasting resources promoting independent revolutions throughout the world, the USSR should have committed to the much wiser project of russification and centralization. It should have expanded it's sphere of influence through direct military conquest and annexation. If they had unified Eurasia under a singular national project they would have become unstoppable. They should also have allowed for the existence of markets and free enterprise, but retained control over banking and finance in order to fully and completely subject these capitalist forces to the totalizing logic of the state's developmental project. This is why China succeeded where the USSR failed. This is also why China will become the undisputed hegemon of the next world order; it is inevitable.

nationalist socialism?

China won because they developed productive forces and produced commodities while the USA stopped doing that. Every single conventional war and trade war since 1860 has been decided by productive forces. See this Dickblast video for more info.

China is explicity anti-nationalist thoughbeit.
Everything right wingers complain about in the West (Affirmative Action, fiscal transfers to poorer regions, DEI practices, etc.) also exists to a far larger degree in China in relation to its ethnic minority groups. China is not behaving as a (Han) nationalist state would.

>>2671769
>>2671760
China won capitalism

>>2671775
Yes. And?

>and because it suppressed the market mechanisms necessary for the entrepreneurship that generates economic development and social well-being
This is literally just neoliberalism. Chinas biggest achievement's were because of planning and state subsidies. If they keep relying on "markets" they will become another Japan.

>market
>ultimate anything
China will have to deal with the same problems the west is dealing with right now at some point if they keep their market economy as it is. Their current system has been good at enabling them to navigate the current historical situation of the last decades without getting destroyed, but its not "ultimate" at all.
>>2671774
>China is explicity anti-nationalist thoughbeit.
No they are not lol.
>Everything right wingers complain about in the West (Affirmative Action, fiscal transfers to poorer regions, DEI practices, etc.) also exists to a far larger degree in China in relation to its ethnic minority groups
This just means they are not conservatards, but the entire project of the PRC has had a nationalist element baked in from the start.
>>2671766
If China was national socialist they would have already self-destroyed via warmongering.

>>2671774
The USSR had massive industrial capacities, but it was almost exclusively weighted towards military production in preparation for a third world war that never came. What they didn't have was a market economy that could improve the well-being of the populace. And they also dissolved on their own because the union contained several states with distinct national identities (China, on the other hand; subsumed and destroyed meaningless and unnecessary national identities such as xinjiang, tibet, hong kong, macaw, etc).

China could could have also developed great industrial capacities without significantly challenging the world order (as a matter of fact, this was what the western powers were counting on when they exported production to east asia). If China sticked to only producing low-value-added commodities such as fridges and cheap consumer electronics, then the US wouldn't have turned against it. What makes China a challenging world power is exactly the fact that the state directed market forces towards developing high-end technology that challenges capitalist powers both economically and militarily.

Nationist capitalism is a winner

>>2671785
LOL. Love this meme, I'm 100% ̶s̶t̶e̶a̶l̶i̶n̶g̶ seizing it.
>>2671792
>China will have to deal with the same problems the west is dealing with right now at some point if they keep their market economy as it is. Their current system has been good at enabling them to navigate the current historical situation of the last decades without getting destroyed, but its not "ultimate" at all.

How exactly? The whole capitalist class in China was born inside a state-controlled cage. They don't control the banks and they don't control finance. There's no elections at a national level. There's no lobbying. There's no private think-tanks drafting policy. Political bribery is severely persecuted and punished by the party. Literally every single mechanism that capitalists use in order to capture the state in nations the like US isn't available in China.

>>2671813
>How exactly?
falling rate of profit

>>2671822
there's no profit in China, since there is no capital, since there isn't a buorgioisie

>>2671822
Care to elaborate?

File: 1769788215609.jpeg (87.45 KB, 610x914, 0zcxut2hpc6g1.jpeg)


File: 1769788402779.jpg (13.96 KB, 216x233, davidlunchlol.jpg)


>>2671829
>>2671813
Which labor is producing labubus for western manchilds like (You) and whose surplus are those multinationals expropriating?

>>2671894
The first post you quoted is not me (OP), he's just a sarcastic jackass.

If you wanna make a purist argument that only a mega ultra anarco-communist society with absolutely 0% alienated labor is actually socialist, then sure go ahead and be a retard. By that same vein you must also conclude that Cuba isn't truly socialist since they got street vendors selling hotdogs which are technically a petty bourgeois class. Please, do go ahead and keep sabotaging socialist movements from within (assuming you're not just a glown*gger). We nationalists and pragmatists will continue to dominate the future as you do that.

>the USSR was internationalist
Lol
Lmao even

>>2671829
Kill yourself you fucking retarded shitter

>>2671954
>Cuba isn't truly socialist since they got street vendors selling hotdogs which are technically a petty bourgeois class.
This is correct

>We nationalists and pragmatists will continue to dominate the future as you do that.

You are just retarded anon, anyone can hop on on whoever dick wants and claim they are winning, but in reality you are nothing but a whore.

>>2671971
> Don't support any actually existing socialist movement in the world. There's none, they're all fake. Only the imaginary idealized socialism that matches my very specific subjective definition in my mind is real socialism.
You might not be a literal glown*gger, but your mental retardation makes you functionally indistinguishable from one.

>>2671977
>An actually existing socialist movement
That's why you also support the United Snakes of Amerikkka, right?
https://leftypol.org/leftypol/res/2667959.html

>>2671977
>You might not be a literal glow
I'm pretty sure he his actually

>>2671985
You are just a stupid liberal, anon.

>>2671981
>No reply
As expected, the liberal shitter literally cannot grasp the simplest notion that the ruling class of fascists states like the US and China are willing to make the smallest concessions to satisfy worker demands as long as that allows their bourgeois class privilege to stay in place.

>>2671981
>Department of Labor launders money through corporations with the excuse of improving labor conditions. So technically the US is almost a socialist a China, therefore China isn't socialist.
Is that supposed to be the though logic here?

>>2671995
*as socialist as

>>2671766
Social Democracy but for brown people

>>2671992
> Literally lifts a billion people out of poverty and develops previously underdeveloped nation into a superpower
> The smallest concessions

Im always impressed how consistently in every single thread that leftcom flag fuck post the most glowie position imaginable. He has to be on a payroll, I refuse to believe someone this stupid exist

>>2671995
>>2671996
Yes, the bourgeois have practices like that while maskerading them as socialist, kinda like how China engages in predatory market practices to gain market share in developing nations

>>2672002
>Muh liberal drivel
Don't give a shit, sorry

>>2672003
You are just a liberal shitter, you retarded fucking imbecile, that's why the most basic analysis of class relations within "AES" shithole triggers you so much.

File: 1769794074933.png (700.6 KB, 794x680, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2671760
>Instead of wasting resources promoting independent revolutions throughout the world, the USSR should have committed to the much wiser project of russification and centralization. It should have expanded it's sphere of influence through direct military conquest and annexation. If they had unified Eurasia under a singular national project they would have become unstoppable. They should also have allowed for the existence of markets and free enterprise, but retained control over banking and finance in order to fully and completely subject these capitalist forces to the totalizing logic of the state's developmental project.
"I agree!"

>>2671998
>Thinks everyone outside of their country is "brown"
>Doesn't know that social democracy also exists in the countries they classify as "brown"
Why are americans/europeans so stupid?

>>2672010
> racism
>>2671998
> "shithole"
Those guys are racist right wingers larping as socialists. Possibly glowies.

>>2672018
What's racist about calling capitalist nations shitholes?
All capitalist nations are shitholes as class conflict and bourgeois interests turn them into shitholes for the working class.

>>2672003
You have brain worms

File: 1769814354227-0.mp4 (3.07 MB, 1920x1080, 7u4SKteb5wXycdVc.mp4)

File: 1769814354227-1.jpeg (837.91 KB, 1036x1348, IMG_7208.jpeg)

File: 1769814354227-2.jpeg (657.69 KB, 1824x2336, IMG_7152.jpeg)

File: 1769814354227-3.jpeg (194.53 KB, 1080x1310, IMG_7123.jpeg)

>>2672020
>>2672122
Why are Chinese capitalists winning so hard?

>>2671760
Even the liberal Mao would have executed you

>muh racism
SJW multipolaroids lmao

>>2672645
Marx & Engels talked about uplifting the periphery through the spread of civilization, the time has come for the Third World to spread civilization in the First World.

>>2672642
I care not about celebrating capitalist victories, as I am not a classcuck

I'm kinda fine with the war on terror and the scramble for africa so i kinda don't care if china wins tbqh it's all liberalism at the end of the day

File: 1769820018410.jpg (68.08 KB, 625x626, 1443235016454.jpg)


>>2672710
BordiGOD literally did tho?

>>2672807
>it's another "leftcom = Bordiga" post

File: 1769824269726.gif (224.33 KB, 1222x683, qweewqweq.gif)

>The USSR failed as a political experiment exactly because of its internationalist nature and because it suppressed the market mechanisms necessary for the entrepreneurship that generates economic development and social well-being. The USSR fractured exactly because it existed as a coalition of distinct national identities instead of a fully centralized and stable nationalistic project. As a result it splintered into a multitude of weak and irrelevant countries primed for exploitation by the capitalist hegemon. This is why we now see two former communist nations fighting in Ukraine; because the foolishness of Lenin decades prior created an unnecessary national identity which the American intelligence apparatus preyed upon and directed against Russia.

>>2672808
BordiGOD won.

File: 1769879911190.jpg (58.48 KB, 750x516, G9iX_7CXgAAohxI.jpg)

Can someone explain to me how is China socialist in any way? They have literal BILLIONAIRES in the CCP that have real political power, they don't have free healthcare and the job market is the most savage and unregulated there is. I know people who have worked there, and they all tell me that it is extremely common to do everything under the table, with hellish working hours and hardly any days off. Even children are at school practically all day long. It is a hyper-competitive society.

but they nationalized strategic sectors, and the state intervenes in the economy!
All developed capitalist countries do this, even Singapore could be considered more socialist than China

>>2674006
If they had all of this they'd just be a social democracy, dumb lib.

>>2674034
>social democracy
they're neither socialist, nor a democracy

>>2674041
They're a democracy (dictatorship of the bourgeoisie)

>>2674006
The socialist transformation of private ownership of the means of production has been completed, the system of exploitation of man by man abolished, and a socialist system established. The exploiting class, as a class, has been eliminated.

>>2671829
Correct. The abolition of the capitalist system has negated the categories of surplus-value. Labour power is not a commodity in China. A class cannot sell itself its own labour power. A class cannot exploit itself. Wages are no longer a transformation of the value or price of labor power. They are a form of state distribution of personal consumer goods according to the principle of “from each according to his ability, to each according to his labor.”

>>2674006
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6E89qUXTX-k&pp=2AYG
TLDR: You have been misinformed about China. Watch vidrel if you're interested in learning in depth how the Chinese system works.

>They have literal BILLIONAIRES in the CCP that have real political power

Literally everyone in China who wants to engage in politics at all HAS to formally register as a member of the CCP (it's a single party system duh), so they technically belong to the CCP as a matter of procedural formalities. The billionaires you're speaking of simply occupy advisory roles in some specific matters.

>they don't have free healthcare

It's not literally free, but it's functionally equivalent to that for all practical purposes. You pay like ten dollars for procedures that would bankrupt your entire family in the US.

>job market is the most savage and unregulated there is

That's not true.

>and they all tell me that it is extremely common to do everything under the table

There are regulators responsible for punishing such practices.

>with hellish working hours and hardly any days off

The 996 thing is literally illegal. There are some companies which do it, but they do it under risks of being severely fined.

>Even children are at school practically all day long

That's a bad thing?

>>2674061
> Literally everyone in China who wants to engage in politics at all HAS to formally register as a member of the CCP
There’s seven or eight political parties that also participate, you can join China Democratic League or the KMT revolutionary committee

>>2674044
>>2674047
>>2674056
This is a sarcastic jackass and not me (OP), just to be clear.
>>2674067
They're token parties who are allowed to exist under the United Front system under advisory roles. They're not allowed to exercise meaningful political power. Only the political cadre of the CCP has the power to make actual decisions.

>>2674089
They’re not just advisory roles, the united front parties in China are also where genuine dissent gets released the same way any tank full of gas has a pressure release valve that whines and hisses scarily for a bit

File: 1769883322633.png (577.16 KB, 1331x744, 489.png)


>>2674006
>muh totalitarian
>muh state capitalism
just read a fucking book already

>how is China socialist in any way

the party (an expression of proletarian democracy aka dotp) control the economy in favor of the material interests of the working class, while the bourgeois, although not abolished as a class yet, are not allowed any political power at high level and dont even have complete control over their own companies


>literal BILLIONAIRES in the CCP that have real political power

show me one

>I know people who have worked there

second hand anecdotes, the best basis for analysis

>even Singapore could be considered more socialist than China

no. you're simply a retard who doesnt read and doesnt even know what he is talking about

>>2674129
If China is an example of socialism working then we need an alternative to socialism, because it’s every bit as awful as capitalism and is dependent on capitalism

>>2672018
100% glowie, the guy just spout US propaganda without making any actual analysis

>>2674133
go invent one then and stop shitting up our threads you fucking moron

<actual development of the global south?

<finally giving humanity the tools needed to fight climate change?
<finally an alternative to being a vassal of the empire, eventually shattering it?
>who cares, china bad!
people like you are simply useless to any movement wishing to effect real change and gains for workers and socialism

socialism is just dirigsme it seems

>>2674141
Socialism just refers to governments that attempt to address the social question so yes, dirigisme is socialism albeit a liberal perversion. If you're implying China however is dirigist because you've gotten it in your head that communism means no capitalism then you're just a genuine retard

Let’s be real, China never left the Oriental mode of production

>>2674140
Hello I'm CEO of the global south™️ and I want Chinese investors (rapists) who were brought in by US imperialists out of my country.

Thank you for your attention on this matter!

>>2674129
I did read Marx and Lenin, China is not a DOTP

>>2674304
Correct, it is a Dictatorship of the Whole People, which in practical effect empowers the most numerous class, the Proletariat.

I appreciate the fact that denglets only way to make neolib shithole China socialist is by changing the definition to fit every other neolib shithole

Can't believe these "people" were taken seriously few years ago.

>>2674133
china has actually come out of poverty and mass starvation to one of the most powerful and prosperous civilizations in the world, socialism turned illiterate peasants literate, increased the life expectancy of the country.

what happened in china over 100 years can only be said to be an economic miracle, but since it's not perfect yet (due to the real limitations of world capitalism )retards like you want to find an 'alternative'

File: 1769898170830.png (2.71 MB, 1178x1600, ClipboardImage.png)

was he dengist

>>2674419
>what happened in china
was not socialism lol

>>2674136
No anon, you are just stupid

>>2671760
>The USSR failed as a political experiment exactly because of its internationalist nature
I agree with everything else, but the USSR else failed precisely because it lacked internationalism. Its rigid socialist system was incompatible with third world countries, which tended towards developmentalist state capitalism. The only way it could support its allied nations is by giving by sending aid like weapons, blueprints and technical advisors. All of it had to be produced by the USSR itself, so even if it wasn't free of charge, it was necessarily limited because it could only draw from the surplus produced by Soviet workers. The Soviet Union wasn't able easily replicate its system in other countries. The vast majority of socialist revolutions were imposed directly by the Red Army or were made in alliance with the Red Army. Both of these types of revolutions happened after WW2, meaning that is an empirical fact that the Soviet Union was only able to compete with the West in terms of military power. It's also clear that direct material aid and in the case of Eastern Europe military occupation didn't create loyal allies. The leaderships of Warsaw Pact countries instantly defected to NATO after Gorbachev "let them go". If USSR had found a way to advance deep economic integration with third world countries by partially modifying its system to be more like them, the national bourgeois of these countries wouldn't have been so ready to submit to CIA anti-communism. If we try to measure the decline of the USSR during the Cold War in terms of their internationalist engagement, the trend clearly anticipates someone like Gorbachev coming to power in the end. First Khruschev withdraws advisors and material support from China resulting in the Sino-Soviet split, then secret meetings in the early '80s announce the coming end of practically free Soviet oil supplied to the Warsaw Pact. Gorbachev concludes everything by declaring that communism failed because it failed to overtake the West in total isolation. Well, what if we changed the rules of the game? What if socialism isn't supposed to isolate itself from the world? This is the line of thinking China follows and China is winning.

>>2674482
his system was a good system from an isolated perspective, the problem is that this is invalidated by the fact that it was done under american occupation and in the service of american imperialism, as the point of dialectics is that in the last instance analysis should concern the system as a whole, not only parts of the whole, and in the case that higher level contradictions contradict lower level contradictions, the higher level contradiction always overrides the lower level contradiction

>>2674111
This post >>2674513 also applies to Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia has a massive welfare state, large public sector and it is definitely a good place to live. A dialectical analysis shows that the kingdom is still 100% capitalist because as a producer of strategic commodities it is one of the strongest pillars of American financial hegemony. The public sector in the KSA depends on debt recycling. Much of the Chinese private sector is small entreprises that depend of infrastructure investment by SOEs.

>>2674513
> it was done under american occupation and in the service of american imperialism
tbf it looked like his system was going to a more independent direction. But then he got shot and then south korea stopped all independent attempts shortly after…..
huh interesting how he got shot right around the time when he became more independent

>>2674501
>The leaderships of Warsaw Pact countries instantly defected to NATO after Gorbachev "let them go".

Because all of the nationalist projects of easten european countries were specifically built in their opposition to the Russian identity. Poland, Slovenia, the Czek Republic, etc… All of those countries specifically used the image of "russian ocupation" to engineer their newfound nationalistic projects. The most effective way to counteract such tendencies would have been to create a single unified national identity and state structure within the soviet project itself and do away with the minor national identities which aren't useful since they don't help with generating cohesion among the working class.

>>2674534
The reason why South Korea was able to adopt state-led developmentalism as a poor post-colonial nation is because the US allowed it. If it didn't coincide with the strategic goals of American imperialism, it wouldn't have existed in the first place. From a broader, grand-historical view the primary contradiction always overrides the secondary contradiction, even if it doesn't seem so at a particular moment in time. This is what is meant by an exception that proves the rule.

>>2674548
Or maybe they shouldn't have been made close allies of the USSR. Finlandization would have been enough for all of Eastern Europe. If the Soviet Union thought that the confrontation with the West will be fought militarily, why not just station troops there and force the already existing capitalist class to say nice things about the USSR, if it's only military power they are scared of? It's not like a socialist country can't sell out to Western imperialism through loans for example, Yugoslavia showed this very early on. They should have behaved like a good capitalist, cut their losses and prefered methods that don't hurt their bottom line that help to achieve strategic goals, like making long-term non-predatory investments in third world development (this was impossible due to the exclusivity of state and collective enterprise).

>>2674576
Tbf the USSR actually tried to withdraw its troops from Hungary and Romania. Hungary didn't agree, but Romania did and it become the only Eastern European country besides the USSR itself where socialism had to be overthrown violently.

>>2671766
Dengoids love national socialism!!!

>>2674551
that is fair

Reminder that chomsky thinks autism score race science is real

>>2674654
Ashkenazi supremacism is one hell of a drug + he's a glowie (look into what he was working on during the 50s and 60s)

genuinely the most liberal coded statement i've ever seen. the USSR failed because of capitalistic market reforms and liberal political reforms. please read a book op

>>2674576
They weren't simply "made close allies". Countries like Ukraine, Belarus, Khazakstan, etc… were all part of the former Tsardom of Russia that in principle Moscow could have administered directly. And Western Europe was a set of conquered territories earned through costly battles in WWII. The USSR had full control of all of these territories by the end of the war and they could have annexed and russified them (establish the education systems that teach the russian language alongside local languages under a secondary status, reform the administrative system, unify the state under direct control from Moscow); instead the USSR structured itself as a coalition with multiple national identities. This was its downfall.

>>2674668
>the USSR failed because of capitalistic market reforms and liberal political reforms

The USSR had to undergo these reforms exactly because it didn't had a private sector and it's industry was over-centralized and only effective when it came to military production. The types of consumer goods that genuinely improved the standards of living for people in the west simply weren't available in the USSR.

China underwent a similar process of opening up its markets and it experienced unprecedented economic growth and massively improved the standards of living for it's previously impoverished population. The issue is not the markets, the issue was the lack of political centralization. If you retain direct control over the financial sector and you discipline the capitalist class, then markets become an almost exclusively beneficial aspect of your nation.

>>2674682
Those famous photographs of people waiting long lines just for bread and empty super markets all come precisely from the Perestroika era. The USSR stopped being socialist when Stalin died

File: 1769949740652.png (277.4 KB, 1341x1619, breadlines.png)

>>2675155
>Those famous photographs of people waiting long lines just for bread and empty super markets all come precisely from the Perestroika era
incorrect buzzer sound
Wrong. The lines existed long before Perestroika and were a common feature in all planned economies. No one starved but people did in fact have to constantly wait at lines due to shortages of "luxury" food items like strawberries.

>>2675246
If you cannot propose an alternative then your critique is vacuous. Leftcoms during the 20th century claimed the USSR was state capitalist. There have been no revolutions that leftcoms have ever supported. Their default state is to criticize everything while offering up no solutions. Even Marx in the Communist Manifesto proposed concrete measures (nationalize banks, nationalize industry, progressive income tax) that are derided today as state-capitalist or socdem revisionism by leftcoms.

>>2675249
>Leftcoms during the 20th century claimed the USSR was state capitalist
Yes famous leftcom Vladimir Lenin

Westoid nazis:
>China is actually our project
<Point out it's not
>REEEE

Westoid leftcoms:
>China isn't our project
<Point out it is
>REEEE


>>2675272
They're reiterating Lenin about the USSR being capitalist. If you have a problem take it up w the big dog.

>>2675273
>>2675277
If either of you were capable of reading, and not AI chatbots defaulting to insults, because AI chatbots are incapable of analyzing information contained within links posted on imageboards, you would both realize that every critique of China made by leftcoms today was applied in a much earlier fashion during the 20th century by like-minded individuals agitating against the Soviet Union.

>>2675280
So are you going to debunk Lenin on how the USSR is capitalist?

>>2675272
>>2675272
That Duna article is so nonsensical.
>Actually, all stakhanovites were fake propaganda OP
>Actually, stakhanovites were the factory bureaucracy
>No, actually, the stakhanovites were the labor aristocracy

Like, bro, at the time of the article USSR's entire state bureaucracy was like 7% of working age population while like 20% of workers were stakhanovites. The data doesn't support her view.

Also, in calitalist economies the labor aristocracy is not conditioned on superior productivit, while the stakhanovites were.

She lost all objectivity from grief and shat out this nonsense.

File: 1769999054635-0.png (1.32 MB, 1200x1200, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 1769999054635-1.pdf (42.71 KB, 193x255, EFTA00945869.pdf)

>>2671760
The Dalai Lama was in the Epstein pedo network. Tibetcels on suicide watch right now.

>>2675284
>Let's hope
Leftcoms described in two words lmao

>>2671760
>The USSR failed as a political experiment exactly because of its internationalist nature and because it suppressed the market mechanisms necessary for the entrepreneurship that generates economic development and social well-being.
Wrong. Ussr was not "experiment." Ussr failed because of fascist revisionist monopoly-capitalist restoration of bourgeois dictatorship and market mechanisms and categories like surplus-value. Ussr was not internationalist, but fascist empire that oppressed and exploited hundreds of millions.
>Instead of wasting resources promoting independent revolutions throughout the world, the USSR should have committed to the much wiser project of russification and centralization. It should have expanded it's sphere of influence through direct military conquest and annexation. If they had unified Eurasia under a singular national project they would have become unstoppable. They should also have allowed for the existence of markets and free enterprise, but retained control over banking and finance in order to fully and completely subject these capitalist forces to the totalizing logic of the state's developmental project.
You are fascist
>This is why China succeeded where the USSR failed. This is also why China will become the undisputed hegemon of the next world order; it is inevitable.
Wrong. China is not capitalist. That is why China succeeds. Hegemons are abolished in Communist camp.
>>2674089
There is no sarcasam

>>2675267
BBC

>>2676874
>China is not capitalist
Tell that to the capitalists who are going to do business there they are delighted to go there

>>2676874
>>2677374
China is in phase D of capitalism as described by Engels in Anti-Duhring. China is DOTP. The next stage after phase D is communism.

>>2678398
Quote the passage

>>2676923
I have the BBC, you have the ass
Do the math

>>2678398
DOTP is when workers own the means of production and decide how much and how to produce in order to meet the needs of the population, not a political elite. The most ironic thing about China is that they intervene in the economy to prevent monopolies and encourage competition between companies; they are more capitalist than the US.

Crack the skulls of the revisionists with bricks and claw out their evil brains from inside.

>>2678665

>SL talking about revisionism

lol

File: 1770132254581.png (31.96 KB, 1116x272, ClipboardImage.png)

How is Israel going to blackmail chinese politicians with satanic child-rape orgies when they become the next world hegemon?

>>2678665
you are one of the least serious posters on this entire board and yes I'm including everyone in the /ukr/ thread as well as grace poster in that assessment.

>>2671992
You are literally saying "China isn't socialist because they haven't pressed the "FULL SOCIALISM NOW" button". Why don't you go ahead and establish "actual socialism" so we can see what it looks like?

>>2672003
It's probably a /pol/ troll, I think he's already been banned twice after showing his true colors, like when he referred to people as "muzzies"

>>2672020
>literally everywhere is a shithole and has always been a shithole, we have never had a non-shithole nation on the entire earth
Is this not just utopianism?

File: 1770180018548.png (129.57 KB, 957x587, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2674111
>>2674531
The difference is that Saudi Arabia is a theocratic monarchy with a huge aristocratic class consisting of royal family relatives. They also have an extremely poor underclass that doesn't receive as much welfare from their oil wealth(the only reason the upper classes can live well) and are more like market feudalism than China's market socialism - that is, they are *less* progressive than full-capitalist states like America and are in an even earlier mode of production. Of course a feudal state has a huge public sector when everything is owned by the oil nobility.

>>2679411
Utopianism. I'm sure one day "real" socialism will magically appear through the fostering of pure and correct leftcom ideology…

>>2679417
Adding on to this, they have some of the worst gender equality in the world as a Wahhabi state, and naturally they cannot come close to socialism when half the population are second class citizens.

>>2679422
Huge misrepresentation, I'm saying that communism can't just magically appear right now without said historical necessities, whereas you say every state with those material necessities are "capitalist shitholes" because they haven't reached communism yet. You've been baiting here for like 3 days now, are you done yet /pol/caca?

Look, we all wish that establishing communism would be as easy as just doing it (trademark) but the sad reality is that communism in one country doesn't fucking work lmao, so yeah, we gotta cope with the age of capitalism for the next centuries, just like the peasants republics were under siege in the 16th century until they were ultimately defeated by feudal forces.

>>2679427

Depends on the relative size of the country (population, landmass, resources, etc.) and the timescale we are dealing with.

>>2679427
You can try to predict the future but communism in one country isn't defeated yet, and the trends are in its favor.

>>2679433
Technically, communism in one country could be achieved if we go to space and one country dominates the space race so hard that a sizeable chunk of humanities population and means production is in that country so they can't be defeated in by a counter revolutionary coalition and then a succesful revolution happens in that country.

The US was a bourgeois country under siege in the same sense until they won by doing nothing and winning while the feudal forces destroyed themselves in WW1.

>>2679434
Everything is in the favors of a more progressive mode of production, but its only gonna come to fruition in centuries.

>>2678413
>«D). Partial recognition of the social character of the productive forces forced upon the capitalists themselves. Taking over of the great institutions for production and communication, first by joint-stock companies, later on by trusts, then by the state. The bourgeoisie demonstrated to be a superfluous class. All of its social functions are now performed by salaried employees»
Voila.

>>2678621
then why is China the only "capitalist" nation to execute billionaires for fraud? While the rest of the capitalist nations have the billionaire fraudsters sitting behind the politicians supporting them

>>2678621
>DOTP is when workers own the means of production and decide how much and how to produce in order to meet the needs of the population, not a political elite.
China has this
>The most ironic thing about China is that they intervene in the economy to prevent monopolies and encourage competition between companies; they are more capitalist than the US.
Wrong. You are anti-Communist. Monopolism is higher stage of capitalism than free market capitalism. So china would be less capitalist than amerika if what you say is true. You fail to grasp Lenin Thought.

>>2679417
>the difference is metaphysics
Nice

>>2679409
>muh humanity and innate human spirit
Lethal levels of liberalism

>>2679427
>centuries
B-but le climate?

>>2679409
Guys this uyghur is not a leftcom is he?+

based dengist chiner has mastered capitalism. they are the best capitalists.

>>2679507
An advanced capitalism of phase D possible only under DOTP.

>>2679508
thas what i'm saying. chiner are the best capitalists. they are capitalists. the best capitalists. they mastered it. through dengism.

>>2679505
Marx didnt know about climate.

>>2671760
This is a lot of bullcrap that conviniently glosses over the fact that China is where it is today because it sold off the USSR and abandoned any real commitment to socialism.

>>2679514
Damn, I guess socialism sucks then

We should do china style capitalidm instead, it clearly works

>>2679478
>the literal physical form of government in Saudi Arabia is metaphysics
this is bait isn't it?

>>2679435
>backpedaling
You can't just keep using debate buzzwords without saying anything.

By your standards, they aren't trying to leave that historical period because they haven't left it yet.
>China has billionaires!
>China has stock market!
>China has poor people!
From what you've said so far you think this could feasibly all just vanish overnight if they were "actually trying". Though once again, judging by your recent posts in other threads, you are a /pol/ tier chauvinist who is probably just trolling and using the leftcom flag to smear them.

>>2679546
You're a liberal trying to distinguish between US and Nazi Germany's social order and mode of production but for China

>muh evil gulf feudalism that's definitely not like muh wholesome liberalism cuz feelingz

Libs are hilarious

>>2679506
The reason I suspect it's a /pol/tard in disguise is because he uses "kek" a lot, also
>shithole
>thirdie
>hates muslims
>communist defeatism

>>2679552
Too bad denglibs are such obnoxious clueless retards he can farm engagement off of them for ages

Anti third worldism is the worst product of third worldism

>>2679550
https://jacobin.com/2020/07/gulf-states-political-economy-saudi-arabia-qatar-uae
It is capitalism, it's just feudal-like because of how the royal family/families control everything.
>>2679553
We are literally boosting the pro-Dengist thread, if anything he's the one getting engagement farmed

>>2679409
Islam isn't fascist you retarded bigot. You're not slick, it's very obvious that you're from pol. Fag

>>2679557
You're right, it's just a religion which will be abolished in communism.

>>2679552
But /pol/tards love Islam, retard

>>2679557
>Islam isn't fascism
Lol
Lmao, even.

>>2671774
This is true, retarded Americans consider "Chinese" as one uniform identity when there's a bunch of distinct ethnicities within China.

>LOL "nationalist" socialism do you geddit guys it's like national socialism like nazism i'm a nazi you get it guys do you get it haha you can't ban me for saying that though because it's behind two layers of irony
This site is due for a purge.


>>2679849
>Fascist support
>Marxist opposition
Lol

Ban dengoids already

Is it just me or have Sinophobic trolls ramped up their effords ever since the Epstein files dropped where they were seething over Xi?

>>2680171
Pathetic witch-hunting

>>2680165
Wrong. In Communist China, the exploiting class was eliminated. Therefore class collaboration cannot be possible.

>>2680208
Source: your ass

>>2680208
KILL EVERY SINGLE CLASS COLLABORATIONIST. RED GUARDS BEAT ROADERS WITH STICKS UNTIL THEIR BODIES COLLAPSE. YOU SCUM ARE THE ENEMY OF SOCIALISM, THE ENEMY OF EVERYTHING SOCIALISM STANDS FOR, FASCIST SCUM

>>2680208
it wasn't eliminated cause the cultural revolution was unfinished

>>2679759
Fucking retard

File: 1770265674058.png (268.16 KB, 1296x743, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2671774
>>2679822
China is 91-92% han. They actively prevent separatism and decohesion by managing minority identities such as 'tibetan' and 'uyghur' and guiding them towards safe, chinese nationalistic expressions (which is the correct approach to avoid getting raped and balkanized by foreign powers).

>>2680579
This is not ᴉuᴉlossnW anymore, this is straight up Hitler.

>>2680719
Good that that anon is wrong and:
>>2671774
Is right, China has affirmative action for their minorities.

File: 1770284413780.jpg (104.36 KB, 1280x345, 20260205_123931.jpg)

When did you realize ᴉuᴉlossnW was more internationalist than denglets?

File: 1770285088915.png (251.74 KB, 1200x799, IMG_7901.png)


>>2680799
When dengists find out ᴉuᴉlossnW's government had a lot of socialists in it they'll be trying to revive sansepolcrismo

File: 1770287010105.jpg (86.03 KB, 500x500, dengists lost.JPG)

Dengists are literally Hitler

>>2680320
>>2680351
Wrong. My source is China's Communist Party. https://www.marxists.org/subject/china/documents/cpc/history/01.htm

All exploiting classes were eliminated by end of great proletarian cultural revolution

>>2680553
Make a thread about how Islam is redpilled and that it patrol the thots and multiple people will agree with you

>>2680859
Wishful thinking

>>2676820
wow the slave owning clerics of tibet were reactionary????

a parallel universe where america is "dengist" would be an improvement (vid related)


>>2681000
Next to the "dead muslims" gore threads? Hilarious for you to claim that rightoids like Islam even though the right ward push since 2012 was because of the Syrian refugee wave lmao

China is internationalist.

It's every other country that's nationalist, hence impoosibly to "ally" with for a socialist country



Unique IPs: 66

[Return][Go to top] [Catalog] | [Home][Post a Reply]
Delete Post [ ]
[ home / rules / faq / search ] [ overboard / sfw / alt ] [ leftypol / edu / labor / siberia / lgbt / latam / hobby / tech / games / anime / music / draw / AKM / ufo ] [ meta ] [ wiki / shop / tv / tiktok / twitter / patreon ] [ GET / ref / marx / booru ]