The so-called “third-worldist” strain of communism is a perfect illustration of how an ideology can cosplay as Marxism while violating its most basic analytical foundations. Marxism is not a moral sympathy project for whoever looks poorest on a map; it is a materialist framework rooted in relations of production, class antagonism, and the concrete development of capitalism. Third-worldism replaces this with a crude geopolitics of vibes, where entire populations are flattened into revolutionary subjects simply because they exist outside the imperial core. This is not scientific socialism—it is aesthetic anti-imperialism dressed up in red slogans.
What makes this intellectual laziness especially useful is how neatly it dovetails with the American ruling class’s real interest: keeping Americans from developing class consciousness. The recent Epstein file circus is a perfect case study. Instead of directing attention toward systemic exploitation, capital concentration, labor suppression, or the very ordinary mechanisms of class power, the discourse is flooded with lurid, sensational, half-digested “revelations” that function primarily as outrage pornography. Whether parts of these files are real, exaggerated, or outright nonsense is almost beside the point—the effect is the same. The conversation shifts from material analysis to paranoid scavenger hunts.
And this is where conspiracy thinking becomes a political dead end. People who treat every unverified, context-free claim in those files as gospel aren’t radical truth-seekers; they’re useful idiots for distraction. Conspiracism feels subversive because it flatters the believer with secret knowledge, but it is fundamentally anti-Marxist. It replaces structural critique with villain lore, collective struggle with individual villains, and historical materialism with fan fiction about hidden cabals. The result isn’t revolutionary consciousness—it’s political infantilization.
In short, third-worldist posturing and Epstein-file hysteria serve the same function: they give people something to feel angry about without giving them anything to understand. And an angry but confused population is infinitely safer for the ruling class than a calm one that actually knows how power works.
>>2675276]
>ultras talking about political dead ends
shouldnt you be dancing wearing a frogsuit instead of crying once again about muh third worldism
The public spectacle surrounding the so-called “Epstein files” illustrates a central and often ignored insight of Marxism: the ruling class has no hesitation in weaponizing misinformation and conspiracy theories when it serves to fragment class consciousness. The obsession with hidden cabals, secret lists, and individualized moral scandals displaces structural analysis and redirects popular anger away from material relations of exploitation. Rather than exposing the mechanisms of capital, such narratives personalize power, transforming systemic domination into a story of villains and secrets. This is not an accident. It is an ideological strategy that muddies the terrain on which class consciousness could emerge, replacing collective understanding with endless speculation and outrage that never coheres into revolutionary action.
This phenomenon also exposes the error of third-worldist arguments that interpret the apparent political inaction of the American proletariat as proof that the Western working class lacks revolutionary potential. Such a claim directly contradicts one of the core foundations of Marxism: that the proletariat, by virtue of its position within the relations of production, is the sole class capable of revolutionary transformation. To deny revolutionary potential to sections of the working class based on geography or present political conditions is to replace historical materialism with moral judgment. Consciousness is not static; it is shaped, delayed, distorted, and repressed by ideology. The saturation of conspiratorial narratives is itself evidence of how aggressively the ruling class works to prevent that consciousness from crystallizing.
Finally, the absence of proletarian mobilization around spectacles like the Epstein files should not be read as apathy or betrayal, but as a refusal—however unconscious—to fight battles that do not clearly align with class interests. A revolutionary proletariat does not mobilize for moral panics or elite power struggles disguised as justice. It mobilizes when material conditions and collective clarity converge. The Epstein narrative functions precisely to prevent that convergence, substituting false radicalism for genuine revolutionary motive. What is presented as “exposure” is in fact ideological fog, designed to ensure that anger never matures into class struggle, and that the true antagonism—between labor and capital—remains obscured.
>>2675279>>2675281Seems like I touched a nerve
Explain why an american earns 20 timesas much as a congolese for the same type of labor
>>2675292The congolese ruling class lost the imperialist board game.
Now explain how that means the American proletariat holds no revolutionary potential.
>>2675294>imperialism is when countriesAh, you're a moron. Hiding thread
>>2675302Holy shit, you have 0 reading comprehension.
>>2675294Because stopping imperialism means they'll earn two times less even if a congolese earns 10 times more.
So it's against their interests to abolish imperialism and capitalism.
QED
>>2675310You are stupid and undialectical, anon. The American proletariat have no "interest" in "stopping imperialism" because for them, as a class, "stopping imperialism" by allowing capitalism to develop in the Republic of Congo is of no interest. The proletariat as a class have no interest in developing capitalism, the people interested in developing capitalism is the bourgeoisie, and since the bourgeoisie want monopoly capital and no competition, they seek to mantain the global south as under-developed as possible.
Imagine being so fucking illiterate you fail to grasp the very basic notions of class dynamics.
Putting aside the
>le moralism
accusation, I would really like to know the "anti-TWist" (really: anti-Leninist) explanation for the lack of revolutionary potential in the west for the last 100 yrs or so. What is the materialist explanation?
>>2675314>The American proletariat have no "interest" in "stopping imperialism" Yes, that is quite enough, we agree.
>>2675303To add to this, the Congo shares a similar story to the US in the form of having European powers as rulers, the difference is that the Portuguese didn't care about creating a nation state and just stole and enslaved the Congolese.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Kongo me right now, and I dont even need to
>>2675320You are just stupid, anon. Even if the American proletariat wanted to "stop imperialism", they couldn't do it. Because the proletariat can only engage in communism, they can't develop Congolese capitalism so that the Congolese earn 10 times more, because the proletariat cannot develop capitalism.
All you are doing is proving how stupid and moralist you are.
>>2675317>Why aren't the wealthiest capitalist allowing the working class they rule over to revolt guise!?!?!?Truly baffling…
>>2675314The French Communist Party said back in the day that supporting the Algerian independence movement is not in the interest of the french worker because it contributed significantly to the level of life enjoyed.
It's that fucking simple, no need to rant about developing capitalism or whatever.
Energy bills for wvery French worker, for example have been thanks to neo-colonial plunder of North Africa's nuclear resources. Fruits and cocoa and diamonds were made affordable to the avg French Joe because the same reason.
It's that simple.
>>2675334>It's that fucking simpleOnly for simpletons like you
>>2675331They do allow them to revolt, but when they do revolt, there's no revolutionary content. The entire '68 movement on two Western continents proves this.
>>2675336>They do allow them to revoltIf they did, we would see communism, are you implying that the working class have no revolutionary potential?
>>2675327Yes, we agree.
The germans want lebensraum, thd jews want to live.
There is nothing else to discuss, those are diametrically opposed positions.
So it's going to be an existential war between the first world and third world + first world class traitors, of whom you are not part of.
What else do you want to discuss?
>>2675337Also
>'68Are you implying these movements weren't infiltrated?
>>2675338>We agreeNo anon, you are just stupid.
>So it's going to be an existential war between the first world and third world + first world class traitors, of whom you are not part of.Ok, but when are you going to start reading Marx?
>>2675281Islamist cops died, life's good
>>2675337Do you understand the meaning of the word "potential"? It's a latent quality that can surface or not. The question is why didn't that potential become actual?
The western bourgeoisie could have rolled in the tanks against 68 rioters but they didn't, because there was zero actual threat to them. Kids wanted a cultural shift in superstructure and they were granted it by the gracious bourgeoisie who merely saw profit opportunity.
That's how in bed the Western "left" is with their capitalists.
>>2675339The Bolsheviks were infiltrated to comic levels, the key saving factor was the revolutionary proletariat. It's cope and seeth on your part again.
>>2675347>It's a latent quality that can surface or not. All you did was prove your entire argument wrong, congrats
>The western bourgeoisie could have rolled in the tanks against 68 rioters but they didn't, because there was zero actual threat to themOr maybe they didn't because they need their labour power to keep the capitalist system working. You'd know this if you read Marx.
>That's how in bed the Western "left" is with their capitalists.Hilarious when every single global south revolt has ended in opportunism and corruption.
>>2675343>>2675343The Marx who admitted that by the 1860s the English working class became embourgeoisified to the point of losing all interest in revolutions?
>>2675351>The Bolsheviks were infiltrated to comic levels, Yes, that's why they foolishly reverted back to state capitalism and engaged in red terror, just to collapse in the 90's
Good job at proving your own argument wrong.
>>2675355>>2675357Quote mining award
>>2675359You're coping now
>>2675334>The French Communist Party said back in the day that supporting the Algerian independence movement is not in the interest of the french worker because it contributed significantly to the level of life enjoyed.What retards lmao. Neolib argument. With communists like these, who needs liberals?
>>2675354By the 60s the Western bourgeoisie ready started offshoring productive labor to the global South. Today the wast majority of industrial proletariat resides in the East, and minimized to historically unprecedented levels in the West, where they fill these jobs with migrant workers anyway.
The bourgeoisie fears not the Western proletariat, because they are a minority, and already bought off (especially in EU's reformist unions), and their main source of aurplus value anymore.
Capital functions optimally in oppressive circumstances that it offshored comfortably to Asia and Africa.
>>2675359>Read Marx, bro!<NOOO, NIT THAT MARX!!little shithead
>>2675366You're the one who made the first appeal to marx's authority since you can't cope with obvious antagonisms between workers of different nations.
Anyway, can you explain how fascism happened in europe? I thought it was imposdible for proletarians to do anything but advance communism
>>2675368Cool story bro. All you did was shown that there is a direct relationship between the western proletariat becoming less revolutionary and it's reduction in numbers
The western capitalists outsourced the bulk of the western capital labour to the third world, and at the same time, outsourced thw bulk of the class conflict. By stating this, you are automatically stating that the reason behind the "lack" of the revolutionary potential in the western world vs the revolutionary sentiments in the third are merely the results of numbers. More people in the third world mean more expressions of class struggle.
>>2675369Read this Marx bro
>>2675366 >>2675370You are talking to the same retard that not long ago equated Stalin and Goebbels so don't expect any historical insights.
>>2675370Appealing to Marx's authority doesn't mean taking every one of his words as a sacred text. Sorry all you have left is meta diacussions and quote mining.
>>2675375Nope, I get that leftcoms live rent free inside your theorylet mind, but that wasn't me.
>>2675376You gonna answer the question or not?
>can you explain how fascism happened in europe?
Fascism in Europe only advanced after the ruling class soakes their imperialist desires in class struggle, and even then, they lost. The defeat of fascism is proof that the only victory the proletariat can achieve is communism
>>2675373I've discussed qualitative and quantitative differences while you focus anti-dialectically on on the latter.
>talk about most basic analytical foundations >>2675382>>2675379Already did, now explain to me how is it that the proletariat are going to develop capitalism in Congo?
>>2675327>>2675314 >>2675384Wishful thinking. You have done nothing but display your ignorance of basic class struggle concepts
Explain to me how the proletariat develops capitalism lol
>>2675376It is a fact that Marx showed an evolution in his analysis moving from takes like
>>2675366 to
>>2675357 , which is to say he started seeing global class relations differently, and one would add, in a more refined sense.
That you are caught above to just fucking post a trotskyist humanist (i.e. falsifier of Marxism) just because she shits on the USSR as a supposed leftcom, then just pick and choose which "version" of Marx you prefer (instead of seeing the theoretical development as an organic process) WHILE accusing others of being cherry pickers completely outs you as a clown at best and a poltard pretending to be leftcom at worst, especially with your obsession with "browns".
>>2675386The same way they did in nazi germany, america, europe, etc.
>>2675393There was a Dictatorship of the Proletariat in Nazi Germany, America, Europe, etc?
Damn, you are even more stupid than I thought.
>>2675391Or maybe not every word spoken by Marx is correct.
>Le /pol/ witch-hunting Kek, you know they are ideologically defeated when they turn into this.
>>2675397You'd be the first leftcom in history to cry about "the browns". Such unique creature you are.
>>2675397and how do we determine which words of Marx are correct and which ones aren't?
>>2675398The word "brown" has only been posted twice in this thread, guess by who.
>>2675403Analysis, something we are doing here.
>>2675396There was (still is) class collaboration.
It's why they all support social democracy
>>2675402https://redsails.org/masses-elites-and-rebels/Westerners are willing and voracioud consumers of their own propaganda. They love it and clamor for more. They love atrocity porn and spread it voluntarily everywhere
>>2675403by praying to God and using urim and thummim
anyhow the Irish quote is kinda ironic since the only reason we remembered it is because Lenin used that to btfo Rosa on the need of national liberation
which is
triply ironic since every bolshy here blamed Lenin giving so much power to the nationalities as the main reason for collapsing the USSR
>>2675406>Class collaborationYou mean like China? You do know what the stars on their flag mean
>>2675408Not any different from people in the global south
>>2675410Of course, silly me, if you can't comprehend basic texts you obviously won't be able to recognize sarcasm. My fault.
>>2675413So now we agree that both first and third world proletarians can advance capitalism via class collaboration, without having dotp.
>>2675413>I didn't say dumb brown thirdies<Okay, I said it, but it was intellectually invigorating sarcasm!Hahaha, coward piece of shit
>>2675317>anti-Leninistcope, all you have to confirm this is a short passage from lenin's imperialism about labor aristocracy, which he describes in imperialism and the split in socialism as a "privileged upper stratum of the proletariat", a term he and engels used for members of social-chauvinist elements of the labor movement and well-paid workers in industries critical to the bourgeoisie like the arms industry. if lenin thought of the workers in the russian empire, or germany, or britain (all imperialist nations btw) as irredeemable treatlerites who should suck it up because children in manchuria eat coal, the october revolution would never happen and lenin would spend the rest of his life bitching stupid chud labor aristocrats and waiting for multipolar burundian proles to storm the first world to establish jdpon instead of doing anything in his own country.
>>2675414He is simultaneously arguing that proles have zero agency (in building capitalism) and all the agency (specifically the Western proletariat's revolutionary potential).
He has the theoretical consistency of a CIA agent.
>>2675414>Proletariats "advance" capitalismThat isn't what we are discussing, I'll give you another chance before pointing out the sheer amount of mental gymnastics you are engaging in.
>>2675418No anon, you are just stupid, get better
>le CIA
I've broken him, (again).
>>2675419Russia was never imperialist even close to the degree that America and Britain are, by all accounts it was part of the imperial periphery as were all countries where communist revolutions were ever successful
>>2675423Has history ended then?
>>2675405you haven't done any analysis thoughbeit, you just dismissed any Marx you don't like as quote mining and wrong
it's not the only time Marx or Engels have expressed a similar sentiment either:
>The Jones business is most distasteful. He held a meeting here and the speech he made was entirely in the spirit of the new alliance. After that affair one might almost believe that the English proletarian movement in its old traditional Chartist form must perish utterly before it can evolve in a new and viable form. And yet it is not possible to foresee what the new form will look like. It seems to me, by the way, that there is in fact a connection between Jones’ new move, seen in conjunction with previous more or less successful attempts at such an alliance, and the fact that the English proletariat is actually becoming more and more bourgeois, so that the ultimate aim of this most bourgeois of all nations would appear to be the possession, alongside the bourgeoisie, of a bourgeois aristocracy and a bourgeois proletariat. In the case of a nation which exploits the entire world this is, of course, justified to some extent. Only a couple of thoroughly bad years might help here, but after the discoveries of gold these are no longer so easy to engineer. For the rest it is a complete mystery to me how the massive overproduction which caused the crisis has been absorbed; never before has such heavy flooding drained away so rapidly. >>2675421Sure, then explain the rise of fascidm in europe.
>>2675426Explain the defeat of fascism in Europe then.
>>2675425My analysis is that the bourgeois will go to great lengths, and with the Epstein files fiasco, the greatest, to stop the proletariat from gaining class consciousness.
God man, I feel kinda bad for them that this guy is repping leftcoms with his flag. Then again, they're all kind of like this when it gets down to it
>>2675419A worker who gets more wages for performing more work is not a labor aristocrat. A worker of reformist unions and/or getting a piece of the imperial plunder is. That self-professed leftcoms unironically post Trotskyite/ Marxist "Humanist" texts to shit on the USSR while claiming to be theoretically more advanced then the rest is super funny to me.
>>2675423if we use America as a yardstick then no country on earth are imperialist, not even nazi germany, the US literally has a one world currency system
>>2675434You really are if you think you're the one coming out on top in this thread lmao
>>2675428Third world proletarians speedran capitalist development and smashed the first world imperialists in direct anticolonial conflict.
>supposed leftcom rambling about the Epstein files
Bordiga would eat you for breakfast, lmao.
>>2675436I am not the one who stated aomething as stupid as
>It's the American proles fault the Congolese capitalists can't industrializeThat was
>>2675292 >>2675310 >>2675437But China isn't a DotP.
>>2675423most of the russian empire's land was literally colonized or annexed from other polities
>>2675439Imperial core proletarian complicity with their bourgeoisie has been pointed out several times by Marx, Engels, and Lenin, among shitton of others.
>>2675440What does modern china have to do with the ussr smashing fascism in europe?
>>2675444Ok, but again, that doesn't mean that the imperial core prole historical role is to "defeat imperialism" to allow global south proles to "eaen 10 times more".
>>2675441That's feudalism for you. In a predictable manner you will now move onto supporting the balkanization of Russia hiding behind "decolonization" narrative.
>>2675433>A worker who gets more wages for performing more work is not a labor aristocrat. A worker of reformist unions and/or getting a piece of the imperial plunder is. yes that's what i said
>That self-professed leftcoms unironically post Trotskyite/ Marxist "Humanist" texts to shit on the USSR while claiming to be theoretically more advanced then the rest is super funny to me.idk that leftcom flag anon but posting trotskyist texts to piss off ml-adjacent tendencies is a leftcom classic
>>2675443And yet they speedran capitalist development and smashed european imperialists in a direct anticolonial war.
So I guess it's possible after all
>balkanization of Russia
Ummm… but that's based?
>>2675439Why the paraphrase cope bro?
>>2675448>In a predictable manner you will now move onto supporting the balkanization of Russia hiding behind "decolonization" narrative.made up shit nobody said award. i am pretty sure no one supports this except for gunther fehlinger and nafotards
>>2675447Yes, their role is to be vaporized by dongfeng missiles so that third world proles can build commu ism without being bombed
Weve6 been over this
>>2675450Ok, so thanks for proving my point right, see
>>2675382And now feel free to adress this
>>2675356 >>2675455>Let's kill proles!And these people call me a glowie
>>2675449Actual leftcoms shat on Trotsky all the time. Bordiga was "more Lenin than Lenin," not "more Trotsky than Trotsky". It's just hilarious to see imperial-core chauvinism grasp onto any kind of text without theoretical rigour while claiming to be the representatives of the invariant program.
The only invariance here is stupidity.
>>2675456So according to your own logic, to advance commu ism, american fascism will have to be smashed by the targets of their imperialism
Glad we finally agree
>>2675441>ruZZia is le stolen land!!!!NAFO isn't sending their best
>>2675457It's hilarious that you elevate the proletarian into an odorless abstract cloud representing Good, disregarding the already pointed out fact that proles can become agents of reaction, WHILE accusing your opposition of moralism.
Anyway, let's ger back on rails, third-worldists are stupid and undialectical, the proletariat holds the revolutionary potential, any ideology that seeks to divide the working class among imaginary lines is bourgeois drivel, be it the CIA making hundreds of documents to satisfy right-wing lunatic's fictions or third-worldist revenge fantasies maskerading as "anti-imperialism"
Sorry such a basic fact makes some autists this angry
>>2675467I never stated that the proletariat can't be brainwashed anon, I am actually stating the opposite, the proletariat CAN be brainwashed, hence why ideologies like third worldism and the alt-right are foolish. The Epstein files fiasco is proof of this.
>>2675464No anon, american imperialism must be abolished by the proletariat.
>>2675462>Wordsoup>>2675434>Mindbroken>>2675421>get better>>2675413>you can't comprehend basic texts>>2675389>Wishful thinking>>2675376>Marx's authority doesn't mean taking every one of his words as a sacred text>>2675373>Cool story bro>>2675359>Quote mining>>2675343>you are just stupid.>>2675327>You are just stupid>>2675335>simpletons like you>>2675314>You are stupid and undialectical>>2675283>I touched a nerveSub-AI tier
>>2675459>Actual leftcoms shat on Trotsky all the time. Bordiga was "more Lenin than Lenin," not "more Trotsky than Trotsky". bordiga critiqued both the right and left opposition, but he did defend them from stalinists, describing them as the remnants of marxism in the cpsu
>It's just hilarious to see imperial-core chauvinism grasp onto any kind of text without theoretical rigour while claiming to be the representatives of the invariant program.i am not a leftcom lmao. i just think it's hypocritical of twisters to justify their personal agenda using the words of men who found revolutionary potential in what were clearly the richest and most imperialist regions of the world at the time. almost as though class society makes it impossible for a whole country to enjoy homogenous privileges from capitalism!
>>2675468I agree, proletarians of the world should act in unity
Therefore, as a matter of common sense strategy, they should attack the biggest bourgeoisie first. Those being the western bourgeoisie.
Therefore, the first priority of the international proletariat is destroying western bourgeois states, including their collaborators.
Since third world proles are a majority, this will effectively look like a war of the third world against the west (already ongoing)
>>2675472Buttblasted
>>2675474>as a matter of common sense strategy, they should attack the biggest bourgeoisie first. Idk man, it doesn't seem common sense to me to participate in bourgeois national wars, nor it seems common sense to become pawns of third world capitalists, but you do you my friend.
>>2675475Wait why are you protecting the westetn bourgeoisie against the international proletariat?
Next you'll tell me I should kill my "own" landlord and boss instead of attacking the bourgeoisie as an (international) class.
>>2675475The imperial core doesn't make optional for the rest of the world the participation in defensive wars. Yes, Russia's is defensive in nature. Syria's was too. Vietnam also. Etc. Etc.
If the brown ultra and white leftists exchanged skin color the world would be cured of autism
>>2675478>Defensive capitalismNo such thing
>>2675477Actually I want to protect the proletariat from being used by the bourgeoisie as cannon fodder.
>>2675366Aren't you Mexican? Do you get off to people calling you racial slurs?
>>2675481Huh? Are you not able to understand the broader context of that post?
No, I don't like uncoscensual racial bigotry, that's precisely why I don't take Marx's texts as sacred
>>2675480So if the international proletariat can't wage war against the international proletariat, what should they do instead?
>>2675485Unite????????? Wtf anon
>>2675485>So if the international proletariat can't wage war against the international proletariat, what should they do instead?Nationalist gem
>>2675484Yet you chose to take his former ignorant opinion over his latter developed one. You made no effort to dispel leftists misuse of the quote on the Irish question to justify their opportunism, you instead reject it altogether which is an implicit concession to said leftist misconception. I'm not on their side but you always make yourself so ridiculous in over-correcting third worldists.
>>2675491Ur mom obviously, give her a proper gangbang
If the divisions are only imaginary, why is the western international proletariat stopping the third world international proletariat from smashing the international bourgeoisie?
>>2675493As Marx matured he became less idealist, less essentialist (racist, Eurocentric, humanist, etc.), and more scientific, which is to say he peogressively got rid of the inherited bourgeois spooks of his time. Meanwhile, on a personal level, he became more depressed, laying in bed for years, consuming copious amounts of wine and french romantic novels, to the dismay of Engels.
No wonder that Westoid ultras
have to prefer the early Marx, remain optimistic to remain sane, dabble in an ideological (bourgeois) morass that Marx got rid off but is second nature to them, completely avoid Engels as the devil (lol), rely entirely on Lenin's texts critical of the USSR while ignore the appraisal of what was achieved, get completely in Line with Trotsky when it vomes shitting on Stalin, while simultaneously calling Mao's a bourgeois revolution and Deng's a… uhm… ? bourgeois betrayal?
Literal unprincipled children at play. I would like to remind everyone that in the West zoh can meet most anarchists inside socdem parties, leftcoms in irrelevant micro-sects, while MLs there feel completely frozen and ossified for obvious reasons discussed ITT.
I just want people to understand how disgusting the ultra is.
>>2675501what is stopping the third world proletariat from doing the same thing?
>>2675508ok rereading this, this is so fucking retarded, no the third world proletariat is not fighting capitalism much less international capitalism, there has not been any communist revolt in the last 30 years and the movements that do exist are dying because of lack of cadre regeneration. The only way you think that the third world proles are doing anything is if you count third world bourgeois states as the embodied representation of the tw proletariat, but that is a completely different argument
>>2675508Mainly American supported interventions crushing all communist revolutions in their cradle. The most prominent recent example is the Naxals that got rid off with American training and weapons.
>>2675511You mean like when the IRGC cleansed communists with western intelligence support? The same IRGC that campists support against its workers.
>>2675510How can there be when first world proles keep bombing them
>>2675511so Western intervention can stop the Naxals but not Taliban? I dont deny the fact that the US commited many atrocities in India but a huge factor of why the Naxal movement is dying is also because they cant recruit people anymore
>>2675518and the reason why the naxals cant recruit people anymore is because peasantry in the red corridor is being liquidated into the cities. This is what i meant when i say that treat discourse is an opiate for leftists, its a way to avoid confronting the reality that everywhere the social basis for communism (i.e proles and peasants) are disintegrating into precariats
>>2675517Ah yes, the Wal-Mart minimum wage greeter, the leader of the 37th US Air Force bomber squadron
>>2675516What communists? The Tudehs were Trotskyite French intellectuals
>>2675523in contrast Islamists had a still intact support base, i.e through madrassas and charity orgs, which is why they can still recruit and organize people. Hell this also applied for Evangelicals in the US, there is a reason why those guys can consistently punch above their weight
>>2675524Why doesnt6 the wal.mart greeter not stop the bomber from bombing his fellow proles?
Also, aren't walmart greeters not proles since they do not produce commodities or surplus?
>aren't walmart greeters not proles since they do not produce commodities or surplus?
Me when I don't understand Marxism and the class system
>>2675516Iran double crossed its communists and the Americans at the same time. It's a unique historical situation where Iran refused to go communist AND comprador capitalist. As the American empire weakens expect the Iranian
drumroll: regime run out of excuses for crushing internal dissent, hence the possibility of the re-emergence of a workers movement instead of the constant headache of a gusano movement.
I'm not claiming to have a magic ball, but history repeats patterns
>>2675530Unproductive wage workers.
>>2675537>secret third wayyou know back in my days we called this fascism
>>2675541Never seen anyone call the Naxals a color rev, but then again I'm a mere Leninist, not a TWist.
>>2675547They are Islamista, fascism was implied already
>>2675537>comprador capitalist>crony capitalism>state capitalist>toxic capitalismI'm tired boss
>>2675547There's nothing secret about a national bourgeoisie being preferable to a comprador bourgeoisie, no matter how culturally backwards. What is unique about Iran is how in quick succession it fucked over its local proletariat and the foreign imperialists.
I think people calling fascist have a liberal understanding of fascism (vibes over economy).
>>2675553Comprador is a Marxist category with real economic significance, the rest is idiocy.
>>2675548>movement that wants to collapse a third worldist brics government isn't glowopThe sky isn't blue
>>2675559Iran is not controlled by private banking and does not follow an expansionist/revanchist foreign policy, in fact it has been attacked not long ago by an US-backed Iraq and Israel.
If you think Iran is more of a fascist state than Israel you are a literal liberal ..
>>2675565>Muh IsraelWhat does that have to do with anything kek
>Not a private bankIt's not the problem that the firm has a boss…
>>2675567Look up islamic banking to blow your mind.
>>2675570I rather blow my mind than support Islamic banking
>>2675571There's nothing to support, metely to acknowledge that their refusal of debt and financing weapon purchases make them inherently more resistant to financial crashes and imperialist domination.
Also,
>Your side brings up Iran>I bring up Israel<What does that have to do with anything?!Gee, I wonder.
Would you consider Lybia under Gaddafi imperialist as well even tho it funded IRA, btw?
>>2675570>>2675571Don't blow your brains.
Islamic banking is pseudo myth invented by gulfie investors and rejected by all independent muslim scholars and economists
>>2675600Not all myslim banks are gulfie banks. Compare how many banks collapsed in the West in 2008 to the muslim world.
>>2675507muh early marx late marx
Or you can just accept Marx, Engels, and Lenin were all wrong and the proletariat is not nor has it ever been revolutionary.
>>2675612That's because they reject all financial instruments with unclear profit margin and risk, which is what subprime mortgage is since they use high risk loans in unclear traches. Its not because Islamic banking is not capitalism man lol
(They're not even anti usury, they just reject floating interest rates)
>>2675621Yes, natbourgs, intellectual workers and pmcs are the real revolutionary classes
Workers of the world today have far more to lsoe than their chains, we’ve got insurance, credit cards, 401ks, either rent or mortgages to pay, cell phones, video games, drugs, there’s a million tethers to the system for everyone who isn’t a child in Eastern Congo in the M19 mines.
>>2675613>>2675613>Marx &Engel's roughly 40,000 page long ouvre remained constant with no theoretical developments to speak off>The Marx writing silly poetry in his teens is the same as the Marx of Dad KapitalWew
>>2675629No, history doesn’t have a subject and capitalism is an evolutionary dead end, climate change ensures a return to feudalism, we won’t have any electricity in 60 years. There’s no such thing as renewable energy, every windmill, battery, solar panel all are worse for the environment than coal in terms of extraction.
>>2675623I didn't even imply it was not capitalist, I said more resistant to imperialist domination.
>>2675642China makes solar panels cheaper than fences and is breaking TOKAMAK records all the time while eyeing thorium reactors and a moon base.
Reactionary idiocy.
>>2675636I somewhat agree, but even if you remove allat we still dont have proles in the classic sense. Everyone is a precariat contract worker in specific niches, not part of a mass employer reliant on general labour
>>2675650>This is the person calling you an idealist Kek
>>2675652Everything said was factual.
>>2675650The lithium an other minerals needed for the manufacture of solar and wind will never be a “clean” process, this is like seeing someone who has replaced alcohol with benzodiazepines and congratulating them on sobriety (they’re not)
>>2675651And you never will again, modern factories only need a dozen or even just three people working for it to pump out thousands of pounds of product. Never again will you see hundreds of people working the same floor again, not in the west at least.
>>2675642>every windmill, battery, solar panel all are worse for the environment than coal in terms of extraction.Sinophobia i.e. racism will literally make people say the dumbest shit ever.
>>2675668Keep popping those pills and pretending you’re sober
>>2675375Stalin and goebbels were both marxist commies who fell into opportunism, it is 100 percent truth
>>2675657I remember when greens used to live solar but then China got too good at making them. Picrel is already outdated info from 2014 and there are several new construction methods are being worked out as we speak.
Me, personally, am a clean coal / burger LNG guy, the enlightened westoid's choice.
>muh browns
You are a mexican o algo
>>2675657retarded comparison, it's like saying 'oh you think that you are better because you don't drive an SUV? well your bicycle is still made of metal so it still is hurting the planet'. Like yeah maybe kinda but to even make that comparison is totally asinine
>>2675658The west is behind in automation compared to China and is addicted to offshores and migeant workers, while China made it a directive to introduce a massive army of androids in a few years to replace human physical labor.
>>2675420Proles have no consciousness and free will okay chud?
>>2675677Nobody in Appalachia is ever getting their job back, stop dreaming
>>2675677Pretty much. Also China has already started serial production of sodium batteries for things like long-term storage systems and even car plattforms. So this entire Lithium babble from the talking point playbook of the coal and gas lobby also already is extremely outdated.
>>2675423Russia was and is a part of imperialist front
>>2675684The China must be opposed at all costs. If the China does good, that is actually bad.
>>2675684Bicycles are for faggots thoughever
>>2675686Chinese proles will not have money to spend on robot products because they lost their jobs and will riot until the KMT comes back. China doesn’t believe in welfare or UBI because they’ve swallowed the protestant work ethic (they will insist is Confucian, they’re lying) so they will collapse
>>2675696China doesn’t exist, it’s a fiction created to uphold western military spending
>>2675701what incoherent stupid schizo babble
>>2675701China will lower the workday hours several times in your lifetime. Screencap this.
>>2675700See
>>2675413Try being less stupid, anon.
>>2675703Chinese are not nor have they ever been communists because they don’t exist
>>2675705Speak Chinese if you love them so much, you can’t because they’re as real as elves and orcs
>>2675707WRONG. The only real communists are leftcoms because they don't exist, which signals purity. Chinese communists exist too much, that's why they are not communists
At one point mods will have to remove the ultra logo because sharty trolls just keep abusing it to post shit threads like this one.
>>2675710Ukrainianans and Russians are real too, yes.
>>2675714Prove a Chinese language or nation exists at all
People are discussing news from 2 days ago still AND I AM LOSING MY MIND!
>>2675716It's hilarious because back in the day we used to have very learned if nefarious leftcoms posting paragraphs upon paragraphs and now have guys whose whole angle falls apart in the first few sentences.
>>2675718Two words.
Bing chilling. >>2675723Imagine posting this after saying muzzie banking is somewhat counter-imperilist
Lmao.
(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) >>2675726How's the ban on weapon sales/speculation not more anti-imperialist in your book?
>>2675726>MuzzieFuck off mate
>when the fucking duginite is less racist than the fucking leftcom
What times to be alive!
>>2675726>muzziesharty troll impersonating ultras not beating the racism allegations right here, not that actual ultras aren't pretty racist people on average but still.
>>2675281At least the frogs leave their houses what do you do?
What does bad empanada do?
>>2675729>Doubles downFucking hell, stop being stupid for fuck sake
>>2675726Really feels like you're just trying to make leftcoms look bad lmao, then again it's too out of the norm for them
>as he loses more arguments he becomes more racist
he can't keep up the charade, the chuddie is erupting out of this facade
a lack of chin so severe is about to burst into this thread that it will form a black hole sucking us all into its chinless depthlessness
Hamas are the lesser evil in the region
Islam isn't even a race to begin with
Fucking falsifiers.
>>2675507Mods permaban this uyghur for implying there were 2 marxes
>muh marx evolved, muh marx changed views
Holy shit rape this falsifier to death
>>2675752Leave my son Groucho out if your dirty mouth.
Reminder that USA losing in next world war is the lesser evil.
>>2675756Marx was a drunk who cheated on Jenny all the time, she deserved a better man than him
>here come the rape fantasies
Chud eruption imminent!
>imagine spending 4 hours online to get owned and humiliated
Why are cuds like this?
>leninhat is a muslim
Top jej
>>2675768Mao kicked literally every foreigner out of China in 1949, including his best friend Israel Epstein (yes that’s his actual name)
>>2675769Reminder to moderate your cocaine usage, too much and you develop incestuous feelings and psychosis
>mass shooting fantasies
We've got a real one, folks
>homophobia surfaced
>>2675760Why post something so patently not true?
sharty/int-poster from LatAm who discovered that trolling with an ultra logo is easy.
>>2675787Witch-hunting is the lowest form of posting
>Scarface obsession surfaces signifying a lack if real fatherly infuence replaced by gangsta machismo horseshit
>>2675793>Knows capitalism fucks you>Hates Opportunism (Castro)He is just like me!
>my working class heroes are all fictive lumpen bourgeoisie
>fascist homoeroticism surfaces
>>2675818
>Third-Worldism is Communism because all Communists are Third-Worldist, such as Mao and Lenin.
Lol
Lmao, even.
>>2675818
MECW is 40k pages long, Lenin's collected works is 30k.
2 autists writing 40k vs 1 autist writing 30k.
I just want to highlight how fucking GOATED this fucker was, now add that he died relatively young, meaning he could easily have had produced more valuable text aline if he'd lived as long as Engels Baby.
>>2675786It is true, Marx had engels pay for abortions with his mistresses all the time
>>2675276>The so-called “third-worldist” strain of communism is a perfect illustration of how an ideology can cosplay as Marxism while violating its most basic analytical foundations.Third-Worldism is not a strain of Communism. Third-Worldism is Communism because all Communists are Third-Worldist, such as Mao and Lenin.
>Marxism is not a moral sympathy project for whoever looks poorest on a map; it is a materialist framework rooted in relations of production, class antagonism, and the concrete development of capitalism. Third-worldism replaces this with a crude geopolitics of vibes, where entire populations are flattened into revolutionary subjects simply because they exist outside the imperial core. This is not scientific socialism—it is aesthetic anti-imperialism dressed up in red slogans.Wrong. It is simply Lenin Thought. Anything imperialist swine say is easily BTFO by copypasted Lenin.
<The export of capital, one of the most essential economic bases of imperialism, still more completely isolates the rentiers from production and sets the seal of parasitism on the whole country that lives by exploiting the labour of several overseas countries and colonies.<300-400 million out of 1,600 are oppressors >What makes this intellectual laziness especially useful is how neatly it dovetails with the American ruling class’s real interest: keeping Americans from developing class consciousness. The recent Epstein file circus is a perfect case study. Instead of directing attention toward systemic exploitation, capital concentration, labor suppression, or the very ordinary mechanisms of class power, the discourse is flooded with lurid, sensational, half-digested “revelations” that function primarily as outrage pornography. Whether parts of these files are real, exaggerated, or outright nonsense is almost beside the point—the effect is the same. The conversation shifts from material analysis to paranoid scavenger hunts.Wrong. Lenin Thought does not hamper the klass konsciousness of the amerikan, it embolden it. Lenin's conclusions were garnered from tens of thousands of hours of painstaking analysis. You are a halfwit who lenin destroyed long ago.
>In short, third-worldist posturing and Epstein-file hysteria serve the same function: they give people something to feel angry about without giving them anything to understand. And an angry but confused population is infinitely safer for the ruling class than a calm one that actually knows how power works.There is only one thing to understand. Third-Worldism is correct because People will always hate amerikans and their ruling klass no matter how much they defend them. You are example of why Lenin was correct when he said every imperialist is oppressor and exploiter.
Just pointed out how you all missed the OP post is filled to the brim with em dashes and repeated use of "that's not X it's Y" phrasing.
You're responding to an AI slop generated arguement albeit perhaps slightly altered by OP in parts due to capitalisation errors.
What a fucking joke, I'm surrounded by idiots.
And fwiw third-worldism is retarded but so is the OP by rejecting that anything other than the purest class struggle can ever matter in this world.
The fact that it all ties into class, that the economics is the base, doesn't mean the superstructure is irrelevant.
>>2675981Yeah I'm pretty sure OP is a chuddy troll soiling the ultroid flag
>>2675994It's not just Gramsci buddy.
Base and Superstructure is an essential Marxist concept, laid out by Marx in Preface to A Contribution to the Critique of Political Economy and expanded on by Engels primarily in Anti-Duhring.
If you reject the role of the superstructure you are rejecting Marxism.
>>2675981I did use AI to make my text easier to read.
>>2676005Whats a role of a superstructure?
>>2676008To reinforce base structure
>>2676012Mods banish this necromancer
>>2676015By telling proles that the current order is natural, just, ordained by God, or at minimum the least worst option available
>>2675981Do you think I actually read OP posts before replying to threads?
You retarded or something?
You never read Marx
holy trvke
>>2676172moot ate toddle doodoo
The world needs to save the downtrodden proles of the Occident from their depostic pedophilic, cannibalistic god-kings.
>>2676041These things exist and have effects on the real world, you’re like child going nananana boo boo I can’t see you
>>2675276>emdash>"dovetails"you asked chatgpt to write this. that doesn't make it wrong, but you should have tried a little harder to hide it.
>>2676273
and why is it more developed?
>>2676277because it is more developed
>>2676280Thanks to gooder capitalism or racially superior workers?
>>2676284do you know how differential equations work?
>>2676289Can you ever give a straight answer?
>>2675374So you're just openly being racist?
This guy is just a /pol/tard baiting, all he has done here is call people stupid, say they aren't heckin following Marx(since when was that our scripture anyway?) and need to read Marx, then when they actually pull up Marx quotes he says they're "quotemining".
>>2675501This. Who do you think is joining the marines to slaughter people in the Middle East? Politicians' children? Who do you think boarded the helicopters to go kidnap Maduro? Billionaires' sons? It's the American "working class", which has proven itself by its actions fully willing to kill third worlders even for the marginal benefits they receive(relative to the profit made by the capitalists), such as "free college" and "lower gas prices".
>>2675508There were successful socialist revolutions across the entirety of Latin America in the 20th century and now it's down to 3 ailing countries. Did they just blow up themselves?
>>2676866were there any communist revolutions (as in like the russian revolution) in latam though. figures like castro only "became" communists later on (aka larped to get ussr gibs)
>>2675524>Ah yes, the Wal-Mart minimum wage greeter, the leader of the 37th US Air Force bomber squadronMost people in the Air Force come from the middle class, which I assume you're including in "American proletariat" since that's half the population. Unless you want to say that 50% of Americans can't be considered proles, in which case I agree.
>>2675642>worse for the environment than coalThis is only true if you guzzle up fossil fuel industry sponsored propaganda lmao. Real studies show it's cleaner than any fossil fuel.
>>2675657You realize lifecycle CO2-equivalent emissions are quantifiable and that the anti-clean energy narrative has been debunked over and over already?
>>2675701OK I think this is bait.
>>2675276>>2675282You take the anti-conspiracy thing too far and divorce your own analysis from reality when you conclude that there are no conspiracies or that they're not created by structural forces and don't contribute to structural oppression. Conspiracy is inherent to capitalist rule because capitalism puts power into individual hands. Conspiracies of individuals should be expected. Also, and more importantly, this shows a genuine struggle within the capitalist camp over leadership. On the one hand you have the military connected billionaire conspirators who are consciously advancing their aims, and on the other you have liberal bourgeois democratic rule, where political competition is the norm. The military-political conspiracy around epstein is the vanguard of the capitalist class against the proletariat (as this is what western sphere intelligence services' primary purpose is). It's activity was gaining blackmail material and influence among the bourgeoisie in order to unify their class, presumably to strengthen its position contra other classes. The struggle between the vanguard of the bourgeoisie and the bourgeoisie itself over control of the state, and the struggles of capitalists insofar as they individually influence the state when the vanguard is not ruling for them, are important internal contradictions in the capitalist class. They tell us how unified our enemy is, which determines whether or not we can successfully wage revolution.
Secondly, it's not necessarily wrong to take certain countries as functional monoliths. Israel is maybe the best example of this, where nearly the whole population is able to be bought off and educated to be supportive of their imperialist aggression. I agree it's wrong to flatten the US, but for a while during the post-war pre-crisis period it would have been correct, as the population was functionally monolithic and all revolutionary proletarian elements had been effectively isolated. We're lucky that the US is such a large country with a large economy that requires too large of a proletariat to fully buy off for long, and that black america was not able to be contained. But there's nothing wrong with the idea that large populations can be made into a hereditary caste of imperial enforcers with a good standard of living who have no revolutionary potential. I agree that too many people don't employ class analysis when they obviously should but you lean too far into a simplified view of capitalism that does't have room for intentional strategies of rule by the bourgeoisie, such as caste among the non-owners and conspiracies to control the bourgeoisie by their vanguard.
Capital puppets the bourgeoisie as its avatars, but the same bourgeoisie command a state against the proletariat and in that state they come together in conspiracies and with specific plans that they use to maintain control. When a bourgeoisie is imperialist and has wide global reach, they can embourgeoisfy their own non-bourgeois classes and employ them as a class of international enforcers and their logistics. In the US the embourgeoisfication isn't total because the need for enforcers isn't that high and there are too many existing vested capital interests that want to operate as unrestrained as possible, but that doesn't make the concept of embourgeoification and it's effects fake.
>>2676273
Productivity doesn't affect wages, go back to marx 101, proudhonist
Bumpity
>>2677467Aight, good job.
Unique IPs: 38