besides the fact that it is liberal, gay, and retarded, why is intersectionality wrong? How do we break the spell of intersectionality which is held over the real working class? What should be done with people who pushed intersectionality after the revolution? If you are a proponent of intersectionality, why haven't you hung yourself yet out of shame?
What’s wrong about it?
intersectionality is essential to class struggle. some of you will no doubt strawman intersectionality as "when you make the black trans obese woman the general secretary of the communists because she ticks the most oppression boxes on the intersectionality checklist" but that is not what intersectionality actually means in practice unless you are a radlib. What it means in practice for communists is simply not overlooking non-class forms of oppression when building a broad coalition of diverse proletarians in a diverse country, especially new world countries. Obviously if some fed wreckers are using a "failure to be intersectional" to wreck your group, fuck them, it's obvious when that's happening. But you shouldn't go full reactionary and be like "sorry, you getting fired because your boss is racist/homophobic has nothing to do with class struggle."
>>2681564come to leftychan instead
Intersectionality in practice means communists have to muffle class struggle at every occasion, communists have to keep making concessions to accomodate and support all the other 'struggles', but the favour is never reciprocated.
Do not expect islamists to ever show solidarity with communists.
Do not expect Contrapoints to ever give some 'critical conditional support' to communists.
We will have to keep licking their arses, but they will keep slandering us with the tired cold war narrative of 'godless genocidal authoritarians'.
>>2681577>Contrapoints /isg/
>>2681555Intersectionality is valid, but it is only tantamount to reformism in the superstructural sense, class reductionism is essentially the singularity in which all these issues would dialectically collapse in on themselves and be resolved, you'd be insane to support racism yet support class reductionism, the two cannot coexist except as cognitive dissonance.
>>2681578I obviously used her to represent the LGBT video essay churning thots.
Intersectionality is a sham and a humbug.
Marxism already occupies the totality of the Real. Any 'convergence' with other struggles is a liberal attempt to kill Marxism.
>>2681577>islamistsyou are zionist
>>2681582>heryou are liberal
(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) >>2681580>Intersectionality is valid, butliberal talking out of two sides of mouth
>>2681589Stay mad abu bakar
>>2681591That's what alt-leftists do though 'im a commie but hate gays/transhumanists, blah blah'
>>2681560To be perfectly frank I think the Left has tried to be intersectional for enough time now that the results have just been destroying solidarity instead of strengthening it and somehow not even managing to win over diverse groups entirely either given the success of MAGA types.
>>2681584>Marxism already occupies the totality of the Real.you are a dogmatic cultist and not a marxist
>Any 'convergence' with other struggles is a liberal attempt to kill Marxism.marxism converges with anti imperialist, anti racist and anti sexist struggles.
>>2681602i was about to be anti-intersectional but now that i see democrat dickrider is against intersectionality i am for intersectionality
>>2681594there's more of that jewish nigger hasbara
>>2681606You can always OLLAHOOAKBAR your way out of it, jewish nigger
>>2681603Yes, Marxism already covers feminism. No need to have it as a separate category. You have anglo brainrot.
>>2681605That’s unironically called being reactionary
>>2681603Marxism does not converge with antiracism, antiimperialism etc. Antiracism and antiimperialism and feminism etc are already included in Marxism.
Any attempt to 'converge' Marxism with an extra-Marxist 'struggle' is a dagger in the back of Marxism.
>>2681611
Marxism cannot be intersectional with itself, retardizer.
>>2681615
None of these struggles converged with Marxism. Marxism, being the scientific method applied to human society, already included them insofar as they have scientific merit. None of them came after Marxism. Anti-scientific perversions came later ofcourse, and that is what the liberals are trying to force 'intersectionality' with.
>>2681617
>venn diagram brain insulting others
The real movement is the intersectionality of american 'leftists' and american imperialism. Now that's solidarity.
>>2681560>but that is not what intersectionality actually means in practice unless you are a radlibLiberal intersectionality is unfortunately by far the dominant meaning of the term though, and I would argue is fundamentally different from the Marxist approach which by definition positions class and economics as the root from which all other forms of oppression and discrimination grows. Liberals view these issues as being interconnected in the shape of a spider web, all mutually interdependent with no single category being determinative. Marxists view it more like a tree, with class forming the trunk.
>>2681795They said that was a teaching moment for'dem
>>2681555because class position, being rich give almost limitless power and privilege no matter your color or sexuality, while being poor is basically the worst material oppression you can have, no matter your color
and those idpol shit are only downstream from this, the main discrimination is being more often poor.
<different demographics within the proletariat are given varyingly short ends of several sticks by their material conditions, and this makes organizing harder if you don't acknowledge that material conditions aren't just a single, abstract slider.
>but, uuuh, liberalism!!!1!
Class is primary, some issues downstream from class relations effect only certain demographics of the proletariat for reasons depending on their specific circumstances, and dealing with those issues is part of organizing the proletariat into one whole focused on the same issues, rather than just how those issues crop up in their own lives.
Intersectionality is just materialism, just an aspect of materialism a minority of libs are willing to concede to.
The reason you don't want to admit this is because vibes are more important than materialism to you. You can't refute that someone's material conditions are composed of several factors, both base and superstructure.
It's very valid, when used in the service of exposing blindspots of traditional theory and articulating modern social relations. People have an insane either/or notion of it, which isn't accurate. It adds a high degree of complexity and historical nuance, but remains difficult to condense into organizing tools without falling rapidly into vulgar idpol. You have to read Ferguson, Du Bois, and Robinson (Angela Davis is awful though).
>>2681893there is no factual national liberation movement that is intersectional. There are many who emphasized equality between men and women, because women constituted 50% of the population and thus appealing to them will unlock the revolutionary potential of half of humanity
Appealing to conditions that only applied to at most 5% of the population, or the infinity sub-identities of workers under the intersectional matrix, does not deliver the same pragmatic benefits. This is not to say that the oppression against them is entirely fictional; a disabled queer prole is objectively more oppressed than a cishet healthy prole. But to say that we have to appease every single aspect of oppression, lest we cannot have a united proletariat, is objectively wrong, but also goes directly against Marx who mocked the Bauerian concept of "civil society", as in society composed of hundreds of microidentities that are all alienated from each other. Your position is closer to Francis Fukuyama who emphasized recognition between different identity groups than Marx's
>>2682148in real terms, i do not know how you can ascribe to a truly intersectional matrix, and then support Hamas or the Iranian government. If you are ok with Hamas being homophobic because being oppressed by a settler colonial apartheid state takes precedence over queerphobia, then you have to admit that some matrix of oppression should be subordinated to the other; this makes intersectionality practically worthless as an organizational tool (although it is still very valuable as an analytical tool)
>>2681555its just co-opted. the axle that supports the wheel is supposed to be class but they made "class" one of the spokes and changed it to income level instead of relation to means of production
>>2681577>Intersectionality in practice means communists have to muffle class struggle at every occasionno its an opportunity to reorient minority struggles as rooted in universal class struggle
>>2682148China deals with intersectional issues regularly. By fixing a bunch of those issues that only effect 5% a pop, that's 5% less noise every time.
>>2682187Bullshit people didn't know what intersectionality was until the 1980's, that's like saying Issac Newton invented gravity in the 1700's.
Intersectionality is like gravity, folks. A force of Nature!
>>2681555almost nobody talks about intersectionality anymore, it holds no spell and so far as it actually-existed, it was historically progressive compared to what came before. most of the people who previously pushed vulgar intersectionality are communists now
>b-but they're not real communists like me, they don't post about dead countries enough!!kys. what is to be done with
you after the revolution is a more interesting question and it involves thumbtacks.
>>2681555It's wrong because it's unwilling to make a rank ordering of identities. It tries to deproblematize every (self-)identification whether that is in regards to class, race, gender, nationality, religious belief. It pre-emptively says that the 'oppression' is in every instance unjust when that is just not true, there are identity-based impulses that should be repressed or at least looked down on by civil society (notably some forms of political identity, nationalism, religious affilition)
>>2681889Are you aware that if you're trans, even your rich parents can kick you out of the house?
I've been touching grass so long and staying away from the Internet that I forgot what "intersectionality" even is. lol
>>2681555If I were to gripe with intersectionality, it's that it presents every struggle as equivalent and makes you look stupid when you list off all the oppressed identities in the middle of making a point. There's obviously a place for conversation about stuff like transphobia, but it can't be constantly brought up alongside more historical struggles, like class, without watering down your message for what everyone knows is basically a kind of courtesy for progressive liberals. Oppression as an abstract category to condition your political beliefs and the groups you appeal to just doesn't work. Incels are oppressed because no one wants to fuck them. Fat people are oppressed because their bodies have a lot of appetite. But you sure as hell are not going to change society by organizing the obese or virgins.
>>2682274"Incel" is entirely self-diagnosed,and obesity is a state of being,not an identity,of course you can organize them,even have them lose weight if you can afford the time and effort
>>2682278I'm sure you can. My point is: Will it change anything about the world? Is there a struggle between fats and thins that can result in a different kind of society? If not then there's probably more important things to make your political platform about
even the wheel of privilege is un-woke
"homeless" is now problematic, its "unhoused" these days.
<As we have said, one must not treat all the contradictions in a process as being equal but must distinguish between the principal and the secondary contradictions, and pay special attention to grasping the principal one. But, in any given contradiction, whether principal or secondary, should the two contradictory aspects be treated as equal? Again, no. In any contradiction the development of the contradictory aspects is uneven. Sometimes they seem to be in equilibrium, which is however only temporary and relative, while unevenness is basic. Of the two contradictory aspects, one must be principal and the other secondary. The principal aspect is the one playing the leading role in the contradiction. The nature of a thing is determined mainly by the principal aspect of a contradiction, the aspect which has gained the dominant position.
>>2682269because it's America-brained (you can tell by its focus on English attainment in the language section)
>>2682266You're parents paid for your bottom surgery and hormones
>>2682266This doesn't contradict what the anon you replied to said, it means that your class position is more precarious if you're trans and relying on your family.
>why is it wrong
Because it is not objective on the individual scale.
I have most of the "power" circle but in reality I'm marginalized as fuck. I'm not rich or own any property or white. The only two that actually matter is wealth and property. The rest is just vibes to justify class society.
>>2681572Leftychan is just a dead site for losers who can't evade bans, the only difference is that you have loli defending pedophiles on the leftychan meta complaining about leftypol moderation banning them whereas here you have loli defending in private GETchan mods actually banning loli pedo content.
Crazy right?
No joke look at the meta.
But anyway, nobody is using that dead ugly site, its like 3 posts per week.
The only ones who go on there are ACP national socialist losers who are no different from the regular stalinists on here, but the mods have beef with them specifically because of some obnoxious drama with the infracel having been a former user turned against the site.
>>2681555Every critical theorist from Marx onwards had elements of what we would call "intersectionality". Engels even wrote a short book on the oppression of women. Although class domination is the root of oppression, its various permutations /do/ deserve special dicussion, especially with the long history of abuse towards women globally, Black people and really anyone "nonwhite" in the US/EU, disabled people, etc. It's silly to deny that people are *only* discriminated and oppressed because of class.
Some of the things on this wheel are just stupid. Asexuals and "pan"sexuals have never, ever been oppressed outside of being confused for regular homosexuals. Nonbinary is not an oppressed group. Fat people are not oppressed.
>>2682636Not to mention of those 3 posts at least 2 will have irrelevant sexist remarks.("I'm a misogynist because women are bitchy") It's a site for loser incels.
>>2682200The notion that more than one material condition plays into someones' overall material conditions is obvious.
She merely coined a term for what people already understood.
>>2682353No, Elon Musk didn't pay his daughter anything. If she had been cis, she would have received billions.
>>2682375Rich transhumanists are psyops, they don't exist
>>2682819The only rich one I can think of is Caitlin Jenner (lolz) who is downright homophobic and transphobic towards anyone other than herself.
>>2682278Or the money, since GLP-1s are become mainstreamed in the US. Pretty soon every fatso in suburbia will trade in their rolls for a sunken ozempic face.
>>2681605That's retarded.
and actually CPUSAanon is based on a lot of issues in stark comparison to his cuck party>>2681612Reactionary literally doesn't mean "they react to things". Read more theory
>>2682822All modern trans people have money.
Hormones and surgery aren't free.
Has anyone here ever organized?
Look at the crowd there, it's all white young people who's parents are either labor aristocrats or petite bourgeoisie.
I would say it's generally half men half trans girls.
The unfortunate state is the revolutionary potential is dogshit in the country and the only people that are willing to read Marx and organize are the people aforementioned here.
The rest don't have the time, energy, or are too pacified by treats or afraid of getting deported.
>>2682917>Class reductionismOk, and???
>>2682920it's a complete revisionism from marx and Engels, The Origin of the Family, Private Property and the State exposes so.
>>2682921Engels didn't say we need more womyn bourgeoisie
>>2682837Basing your political opinions off nothing more than reacting to other people’s statements and adopting the opposite of them is like ur-reaction my man.
>>2682926Reactionary here means the opposite of revolutionary or progressive
>>2682925the meme already shat on liberal identity politics and class reductionism, as neither are good or materialist and fail in every way to tackle reality.
>>2682926That's called being Contrarian. Reactionary is when then look backwards and fetishize deprecated social conditions as an ideal to return to or revitalize.
we must separate intersectionality in abstracto from intersectionality actual. in abstracto the movement may seem like a good way for a party to further extend its reach by explaining to various demographics how exactly the mode of production affects their daily lives qua their finite identities. in such a way, these individual identities become sublated within a larger movement
in actuality, intersectionality often points away from class struggle in fundamental ways. for instance, the observation that various groups are less likely to be hired in managerial positions and such leads to the conclusion that we need more people of said groups in managerial positions. "black capitalism" is a particular manifestation of this tendency. this tendency is ultimately an outcome of intersectionality's integrationism. when they discuss things such as microaggressions, they hyperfocus on "othering". the intersectionalist is hence revealed to be the other side of the same assimilationist coin. even if the goal of immediately raising particular groups to better material positions was a worthwhile goal, clearly the solution would be the establishment of collective economic autonomy for that group, i.e. black nationalism (properly understood, not as the establishment of an ethnostate, but the social cooperation of black peoples based off of a recognized solidarity) contra black capitalism. this must be rejected from the outright be intersectionalists, as this would require these groups acquiring a capacity for self-determination that transcends integrationalist objectives
there is of course the contradictions apparent amongst the different groups that intersectionality happens to deal with, e.g. lgbt and muslim, trans and christian, transsexual and non-binary transgender. to the extent that these groups have legitimately contradictory ways of life with at times different material needs (especially for transsexuals), bringing them together becomes a difficulty, especially when it is done on an abstract plane of recognition. the real solution to such a problem would be one akin to ASSRs established by soviets, but this would require a more complicated strategy which takes the problem of self-determination seriously whilst still incorporating various groups into a larger movement
there is also the issue of establishing why exactly less revolutionary political forms e.g. social democracy, should not be the solution to the ills of many of these groups. indeed many of the people who subscribe to intersectionality tend towards more reformist positions. the avoidance of such tendencies would presuppose a unified class movement, or (and perhaps simultaneously) the acknowledgement of the problem of self-determination, and pointing out the ways in which capitalism hampers collective self-determination
ultimately "intersectionality" to the extent it has real validity is simply a strategy of consolidating collective power. it should not be something that becomes reified above such considerations. its tendency towards liberalism is an outcrop of this reification. furthermore, intersectionality when reified must, due to its own internal contradictions, abolish itself. at which point it reduces to the problem of collective self-determination which is not possible under our anti-social mode of production
>>2682931contrarianism is a reactionary value, you oppose not based on valid bases of theory fact or arguments but baseless assertions and popularity of a opinion you go against, it's based on idealism and nothing else.
as it shows how reactionaries have the tedency to flip flop on positions of all kinds, right now they are trying to whitewash epstein, at the same time demonise him and try to paint as a founder of LGBT's, as always, no real position, only contrarianism.
>>2682917>anti-capitalism without a liberal identity-essentialist analysis developed specifically as a critique of the lack of equity in the bourgeois penitentiary system is muh class reductionismWrong. By insisting on putting class on the same level as race, gender, sexuality, ability, etc, etc, the intersectors betray their complete ignorance of the significance of class in a revolutionary sense. What Class, Race, and Gender have in common is that they represent social stratification which must be abolished. What makes Class an outlier and central to the revolutionary perspective is that it is not an identity but purely a condition.
>>2682947Few people are truly pathological contrarians anon, it's more of an accusation to insinuate that X person's perspective is all feels and no reals. A person can "be a contrarian" without holding reactionary positions. It's just a vibe bro.
>>2682949>What makes Class an outlier and central to the revolutionary perspective is that it is not an identity but purely a condition.literally what the meme was pointing at and meant by liberal identity politics, woman can just de-indentify themselves and it will all change then ?, this shows a complete desconection for actual analysis of class and how it envelops everything the classes in question are down to it's varying members.
>>2682934Is that the communist vtuber?
>>2682951>A person can "be a contrarian" without holding reactionary positions. It's just a vibe bro.exceptional and outside of the curve cases are meaningless, almost every reactionary is a contrarian in behaviour when it comes to question but not every contrarian is a reactionary, entertaining people carrying this behaviour is stupid.
>>2682956I'm sorry anon but I am having trouble understanding what you're trying to say here. Can you reframe the response or add some more context?
>woman can just de-indentify themselves and it will all change then ?Sex-and/or-race based social stratification exists materially but Sex and Race (ethnicity) are not class conditions in themselves.
>>2682961The problem here is people tend to finger all kinds of people who disagree with the current thing as Contrarians and therefore it's rather intellectually bankrupt to put everybody who has a critique of the current thing under the same umbrella regardless of the substance of their positions.
>>2682189trvke. marx bless china.
>>2682959nazi fetishist tranie
>>2683004The problem with this meme is that, assuming it affirms both posits, to affirm the first reifies the intersectional perspective as something inherent while it is functionally nothing more than a metaphysical attempt to relegate class to the category of identity. From that assumption the second only affirms that capital affects all oppressed identities adversely.
>>2682917Class reductionist is also liberal identity politics.
Materialism is inherently intersectional, and anti-capitalism without materialism is liberalism.
>>2683048If materialism is inherently intersectional then what use is intersectionality
>>2683060It's just a principal within it. More than one material condition makes up someone's overall material conditions. Like it's obvious on paper but if you see someone tunnel visioning on a specific factor, or disregarding a factor because it's not always as relevant / prominent due to another factor, you can can point out that it's intersectional.
>>2681555The trouble is that people confuse base and superstructure. Class is base and the state is superstructure. The family (marriage/prostitution) is base and biological sex is superstructure. The town-country contradiction is base and race is superstructure.
As an example, transmisogyny is really more about sex trafficking than anything else.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_sex_workers has some sources. The numbers of 24% to 75% across international studies is absolutely stupid.
Feminism is bullshit because feminists never talk about shit like telework, estate taxes and nationalizing the tenement halls and real-estate investment trusts. It's largely the structure of the household which structures the oppression of women.
>>2682879Most people today rely on medicine in some form or another
>>2683045>the most abstract and idealist argument imaginableblud nobody's buyin that one
>>2682921Call it however you want, the trvth is none of those issues has the same potential to abolish as class struggle.
>>2682959Nah that's someone from neocities:
https://hidwehproject.neocities.org/The vtuber is futakuchi mana. They both have the black and red color palette tho.
It's really quite simple. Whenever you see some postmodern bullshit like this ask yourself "Does it seek to divide or unite the working class against the bourgeoisie?" Intersectionality divides the proletariat on racial, cultural and gender lines instead of uniting us as a political force, so you can throw that shit in the trash.
>>2683147Also check Plekhanov's Role of the Individual in History, where he tears apart some narodniks talking about some similiar stuff
>>2683136wow she is just like me
>>2683040ill make a new post on /lgbt/ clearing some things up mayb when i have the energy for it. after making that thread i just didn't bother reading any of the replies honestly .. idk if i should make a new thread for it or use the original thread lol. i also wrote a small zine to summarize some of the ideas because ive gotten a lot of ppl complaining abt mucho texto. stuff like that sort of kills my motivation but u gotta do what u gotta do
>>2683147Even in the purely liberal usage of it, the point of intersectionality is to
break a prior division by saying that there's no such thing as someone purely privileged or unprivileged within a class.
Intersectionality as liberals have conceded to it is coming to the conclusion that class is primary.
Like you're describing what pre-intersectionality idpol was like, and attributing those problems to intersectionality when the whole point was to steal a bit from materialism to fix that.
>>2681555>gay, and retardedJeffrey Epstein is responsible for the creation of /pol/, and it shows by the degenerated level of discourse in his soulless fascist aesthetic forums
>why is intersectionality wrong?No investigation, no right to speak. SHUT THE FUCK UPlots of historical quotes in this article:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersectionality>>2681560>"getting fired because your boss is racist/sexist has nothing to do with class struggle"<In DeGraffenreid v. General Motors (1976), Emma DeGraffenreid and four other Black female auto workers alleged compound employment discrimination as Black women resulting from General Motors' seniority-based system of layoffs. The courts weighed the allegations of race and gender discrimination separately, finding that the employment of African-American men in the factory disproved racial discrimination, and the employment of white women in the offices disproved gender discrimination. The court declined to consider compound discrimination, and dismissed the case. Crenshaw said that in cases such as this, the courts have tended to ignore Black women's unique experiences by treating them as only women or only Black"some of our workers sit down and others use vehicles to travel so we aren't bigoted against wheelchair users" Porky logic
>>2682636>The only ones who go on there are ACP national socialist losers who are no different from the regular stalinists on here, LaRouche cultists are anti-Stalinist wreckers who have done more damage to defraud the proletariat than every identity politics woke HR consultant has
>>2682934>when they discuss things such as microaggressions, they hyperfocus on "othering"<In her 1851 "Ain't I a Woman?" speech, Sojourner Truth spoke from her racialized position as a formerly enslaved woman to critique essentialist notions of femininity. She highlighted the differences between the treatment of white and Black women in society, saying that white women were often regarded as emotional and delicate, while Black women were stereotyped as brutish and subjected to both gendered and racialized abuse. These observations were largely dismissed by many white feminists of the time, who prioritized the suffrage movement over addressing the intersecting oppressions faced by Black women(soy PMC Marxists lecturing their slaves) "there's no such thing as a microaggressions! There's no such thing as 'othering' people, it doesn't matter!!!"
>>2683063 All the factors youre talking about are defined by the base anyways. The fight against racism, homophobia, transphobia etc. is fruitless and will lead to temporary gains at best unless it's connected to the class struggle.
>tunnel vision on a specific factorThats exactly what the intersectionalists are doing, dividing up the struggle into smaller, more individual fights, instead of focusing on what unites us all – class. Also it leads to class collaborationism. You can fight alongside your lesbian CEO for queer rights, but in the end as a bourgeois she'll still fuck you over
>>2683162 No part of dialectical materialism is about people being purely priviledged or opressed, Marx and Engels themselves wrote a lot on non-class forms of opression. Intersectionality is trying to fix a hole that wasn't there in the first place, simultaneously weakening the workers movement
>>2683147trvke>>2683162>the point of intersectionality is to break a prior division by saying that there's no such thing as someone purely privileged or unprivileged within a class."privileged" and "unprivileged" is such a cucked substitute to erase the reality of ownership of or dispossession from the means of production. The privilege narrative is built on the foundation of bourgeois democratic ideology and has no basis outside of it.
>>2683098Most insurances don't cover procedures they consider elective
>>2683165>there's no such thing as a microaggressions! There's no such thing as 'othering' people, it doesn't matter!!! the problem is not that it does not exist, or simply that it doesn't matter, but rather we must recognize where its heightened emphasis comes from i.e. the desire to be integrated within a social order that must be itself discarded. the problem with "black capitalism" isn't that black people are not discriminated against or that this discrimination does not matter, but that it is founded on a logic of integrationism. they do not think "this is but another reason why the entire system is shit" but rather "if only mammon could would lend me his ring to kiss!". at that point why do they not just become socdems? and indeed many do ..
that is the issue i was there highlighting. if you read my post properly, you would see that i am not even rejecting intersectionality outright. rather it must be subject to critique and brought to its proper place
>>2683169>unless it's connected to the class struggle.It is.
>dividing up the struggle into smaller, more individual fights, instead of focusing on what unites us all – classNo, that's what was happening before intersectionality was introduced.
>>2683175>No part of dialectical materialism is about people being purely priviledged or opressedYes, because once you look at things materialistically you see that everything is multi-factoral, aka intersectional. Nothing exists in a vaccum.
>>2683183>"privileged" and "unprivileged" is such a cucked substitute to erase the reality of ownership of or dispossession from the means of production.Yeah it's pretty dumb, and by adopting a bit of materialism through intersectionality, libs are one step closer to giving up the privilege nonsense.
>>2683214vidrel at 8:21 btw
>>2683214That was among proles with a materialist understanding of stuff. The lib proles had some weird beliefs about how "privilege" works that intersectionality helped break them out of, priming them to eventually move to materialism.
The problem with intersectionality can be summed up in one image. tl;dr it's the opposite of unity LITERALLY
And it's not just hurr durr similar names, the logic of intersectionality IS that of intersection. When you hear liberals talk about the intersection of identities it's not black people AND trans people AND women (union), it's black trans women (intersection). Each category that you tack on narrows down the group you're talking about to be smaller and smaller. The focus is placed precisely on those struggles that are specific and unique ONLY to people within a particular subgroup. For example, black trans women face a number of specific forms of bigotry that combine racism, misogyny, and transphobia in a unique way. Hyper specific issues like that do matter and are a problem, but they can also be traced back to the larger constituent parts. To be radical is to grasp at the root, to recognize the symptoms and trace them back to the cause.
Intersectionality orients our thinking in precisely the opposite direction, away from broadening and generalizing our understanding and toward cataloguing all the many specific symptoms. This is not in and of itself a bad thing to do, but it's not productive as a tentpole of your radical organization because there are simply too many permutations of identity groups and problems to deal with them all individually instead of prioritizing the root causes. If we put an org's deliberation in computational terms, we have a combinatorial explosion. And worse, it aggravates points of difference that weaken solidarity in the group. Whenever you cleave people off into tighter identity subcategories, you put focus on the differences they have from the others, and in the context of intersectionality which views differences as inherently hierarchical, you inject judgment against the group considered to be oppressors in a given identity category. This is a classic cointelpro tactic of downplaying common interest in favor of tensions and differences.
Taken to its logical conclusion, intersectionality would divide people up into the smallest combination of identities possible, until everyone is by themselves. It is, in the last analysis, an individualistic ideology that centers personal lived experience and grievance while sidelining systemic analysis to get at the root causes of these problems and transform society as a whole. "The smallest minority on Earth is the individual."
– Ayn Rand
>>2683136Do you think she would be open to speak (virtually of course) at an ACP meeting? She was retweeting Hinkle lately.
>>2683218>Intersectionality helped break them out of, priming them to eventually move to materialism.Huh. I've never seen that, rather the opposite where intersectional ideology hijacks class movements with prior insurrectionary potential and causes them to implode.
>>2683218>The lib proles had some weird beliefs about how "privilege" works that intersectionality helped break them out ofHow is intersectionality not rooted in privilege politics? The basis of it is pointing out the way people's identity groups stack up on the axes of privilege like in OP's image.
>>2683221based af my uygha 100% with you but I would have left out the ayn rand quote at the end
>>2683232The Ayn Rand quote is there to emphasize the commonality that intersectionality has with lolbertarianism.
>>2683233I know fam it's all good it's just too easy to take out of context for readers with lesser attention to nuance. It's my editorial instinct buggin' out, forgive me.
>>2682353>You're parents paid for your bottom surgery and hormonesThe vast majority of trans people never have bottom surgery, for largely financial reasons. Hormones are cheap and mass produced, because they are mostly used by cisgender people. By far the biggest consumers of hormones and gender affirming care in general are cisgender people. It's only trans people that western societies want to ban from accessing it.
>>2683231It sorta reads to me like how people reduce hegel to "thesis, antithesis, synthesis"
Like, if you can grasp that it's multi-factoral, then you can grasp that some factors might not be linear, and if privilege–something linear–is composed of things that are non-linear, then perhaps privilege as a concept is flawed.
>>2683228Is it because they lose sight of class being primary, or because they have some undealt-with issues that cause it to crumble over simple shit? When it comes to movement-ism it seems like it's usually the latter, and that's why actually organizing instead of putting your hope in movements is better.
Orgs can handle the intersectional aspect of materialism without shitting themselves.
>>2682728>Fat people are not oppressedThis is an easy statement to make, but the majority of fat people by far are proletariat, who are oppressed. Furthermore the systemic root causes that cause fatness in a population strata are almost entirely economic, and related to material conditions such as
a) Access to healthy food. Many areas of the US are "food deserts", and in places like this, less healthy food is cheaper and more economical for poor people. Fresh fruit and vegetables are a luxury. In some towns all there is is a gas station to buy food within walking distance.
b) Urban planning. In these areas unless you own a car you cannot buy food anywhere near where you are forced to live due to poverty. Because there are no grocery stores. Only gas stations and convenience stores.
Do these factors explain it all? No, but they strongly correlate.
So yes, many, even if not most, fat people are oppressed as proletariat, and their fatness is caused by their class position primarily
>>2682148>Appealing to conditions that only applied to at most 5% of the populationFixing serious problems in material conditions for 5% of the population isn't worth it? Maybe you're missing the other half of the equation which is the cost of fixing those conditions, and the resultant ROI. For many people in these groups, the cost is minimal to society but the ROI to the group and individual in those groups is tremendous. So this blanket statement you made is meaningless, you also provided no details whatsoever like which specific 5% group you are talking about and why their problems don't matter enough to bother fixing
>>26828531. She's Jewish
2. She transitioned after becoming a billionaire
3. Even so, she's the only trans billionaire
>>2682822She transitioned after becoming famous.
>>2682407They're calling it the most 2016 video of all time. Pretty funny how outmoded most of this is, the shockwaves of gamergate and that era of internet politics so clearly visible. Who still cares about "third wave feminists" or BLM and anfems lol? Meanwhile rightoid idpol currents are stronger than ever.
I miss Batko. Incidentally I heard rumors on here he's a fascist now, don't know how true that is tho, seems hard to believe
>>2683447i thought it was pierre du dank who became a fascist
>>2681555>le wheel of privilegeI wonder how does police violence in the USA fit into this. Because a black male has higher probability to be murdered by cops than a black female
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