Can someone explain why suddenly much of the entire left have suddenly decided that IP/Copyright is sacred and automation is bad?
They do realize that AI is probably the most important technological revolution in bringing about the material conditions for Socialism right? Combine it with cheap 3D printers in 10 years time and entire sectors of the economy are going to have their rate of profit absolutely annihilated. Yes, I will download that car thank you very much.
But suddenly swaths of the left is like "NOOOOOOO MY COPYRIGHT LAWS, MUH HUMAN INPUT OF LABOUR NOOOOOOOOO". The only leftist creators I've seen are pro Copyright are Haz and Peter Coffin, and they're both in this case, 100% correct from a Marxist or actual Socialist position.
>>2683390redditors who write fanfic slop or furry porn worried they wont be able to life off commisions and have to toil like the rest of us
fuck off
>>2683390We have artists who got butthurt about it. People also try to be contrarian by having reactionary attitudes towards new production technology.
As someone who literally wrote to politicians about Copyright laws needing to be driven back to 14 years and there is little even economic evidence of copyright being largely useful in the majority of cases past 7 years, meanwhile it does massive damage to public domain and public creativity (entire genres like DnB are copyright infingement btw).
Every time I've brought this up with any wannabe champaign socialist "creative" they've become frothing at the mouth embarrassed capitalists. To most artisan/creative types, their dream is to basically make one thing that gets huge, get a monopoly over it and have generations live off that wealth.
>>2683393Get ahead of it and make the first great Yiff AI film. Seriously I cannot wait to see Paramounts face when Star Trek fans make a better Star Trek series in both writing and aesthetics than Kurtzman slop.
Piss off
>>26833901. leftists are, demographically, high cultural capital workers who read. the primary practical products of AI at the moment are slop images/videos and bad prose. "why don't people who read like bad-but-not-bad-enough-to-be-fun writing?" gee, i don't know. it must be because they're all bourgeois.
2. the idea that current consumer-facing AI technologies are important for building socialism is nonsense. combine chatGPT with 3D printers and you get… fucking nothing. the technology simply does not work that way, and even if we handwave away making it work that way in future, you can't expect people to love a technology that doesn't exist yet on the basis that a sort-of-adjacent but annoying technology exists.
3. AI is aggressively forced by companies on users who don't want it. Is laptops coming with a button to launch Microsoft Copilot bringing about the material conditions for Socialism? The basic fact that users don't particularly care to use AI, and when they do, they don't particularly care to
pay to do so really leaves you with two options: either everyone else - not just twitter furry pornographers - is wrong, or it really is just a very expensive toy.
>>2683393while people worry about this, if they understood the dynamics of the world they were in, they wouldn't care. cultural goods derive their value from the social status of their producers and consumers, not from their mere existence. e.g. you commission the $3000 furry artist
because he's the $3000 furry artist, not because his art is any better than an imitator who'll do it for $50. you commission me for $5
because you like the cut of my jib not because you couldn't find someone better.
a much bigger threat is gallery sites and image searches being filled up with slop, but most already have policies against that or filters.
yet another bait thread by some moron who has no clue what 'AI' is, what it entails, how it works and why there are valid reasons to be critical of the way it is developed and marketed.
>>2683390>NOOOOOOO MY COPYRIGHT LAWS, MUH HUMAN INPUT OF LABOUR NOOOOOOOOOI dislike most generative ai because it sucks. Plain and simple. It's and incredibly high resource hog and for what? Memes? Shoddy bottom of the barrel "art"? Nightmarish porn?
AI is a perfect representation of late stage capitalism's stagnation for human development. With all the wealth, brains, and manpower backing this tech, it gave us what amounts to a mirror to our very own societal selves. A generalized representation of humanity as a whole summarized by a cold machine. And what the machine gave back to us after taking in everything we gave it (our entire history, our wants, our needs, our dreams, our data)? Absolute dogshit. Abysmal, basic, perverted, soulless shit. Is it because the AI is soulless? No. It is because humanity is soulless. Capitalism has stagnated human creativity, generative ai just reproduces that fact thousands of times a day at the expense of people's livelihoods, the environment, and personal privacy. AI spews an endless stream of unintelligible madness because humanity under capitalism can only produce an endless stream of unintelligible madness. That is the final achievement of any mode of production that has lost its usefulness.
clearly much of the online left are artisinal rather than proletarian, so think that their labour shouldnt be subject to the sweep of historical progress.
>>2683423>a much bigger threat is gallery sites and image searches being filled up with slop, but most already have policies against that or filters.The avalanche of AI slurry you have to sift through for reference material nowadays is very annoying for sure. Hopefully the filters will get better
>>2683418>production technology is not material Holy shit youre retarded.
Because sucdem comic makers don't like it and used their influence to make normies not like it.
>>2683479what is 'AI' then as used colloquially for the past years by the broad public?
as understood by the average person, AI is LLM spewing lies and image generating models spewing uncanny pictures/videos.
all the people advocating for 'AI' are as ignorant and moronic as those who reject 'AI' for reasons 'quoted' in the OP. generally, there is no discourse that could be taken serious, neither in main stream media and discussions, nor here.
so kindly, go fuck yourself you ignorant and uneducated clown because i bet my left nut you asshat didn't even pass any undergrad mathematics or statistics and are thus utterly and completely unfit to give any input beside snarky comments because you want to jack off to your favourite animu waifu or whatnot.
>>2683390This is a non issue okay chud.
>muh aiNo. You are cringe. It doesnt matter.
I'm pro-AI because every AI generated slop brings up energy bills hence all article prices for Burgers.
AI is anti-imperialist praxis.
China seems pretty pro-ai, does that make it le ok?
>>2683477Can't wait for the Church of Shrimp Jesus
>>2683476Why do people with the worst reading comprehension call other people retarded? Like you just took in the total vocabulary of the post and cobbled a new sentence from it.
>>2683512It's to draw a tunnel at the side of a cliff. China can afford to do AI for a while, so the west will immolate itself to compete.
>>2683476You fundamentally don't understand what production technology is if you think AI meets that criterion.
The steam engine is production technology, but it wasn't back when it was just the aeolipile. The material conditions that first made the steam engine production technology was pumping water out of coal mines.
You can't just use pure hope to imbue a technology with the title of production technology, it has to have an actual use case that makes it's costs proportional. There wouldn't be an AI bubble if there was a use case proportional to the investment being put into it.
>>2683390because it's exclusively controlled by the most reactionary elements on the planet
I don't hate AI because i feel bad about artist, i hate AI because it looks like shit.
>>2683521>You fundamentally don't understand what production technology is if you think AI meets that criterion.If a tool is currently doing a job that used to require a human labor it is by definition production technology.
>The steam engine is production technology, but it wasn't back when it was just the aeolipile. Aeolipile just spins around. AI replaces work of artists and coders.
>The material conditions that first made the steam engine production technology was pumping water out of coal mines.The material conditions that first made AI production technology was Writing software code
Converting old computer code
Finding bugs in software
Translating languages
Transcribing audio recordings
Generating subtitles
Narrating audiobooks
Voice acting for ads
Writing marketing copy
Writing news articles
Summarizing meetings
Drafting emails
Creating social media posts
Moderating online content
Filtering spam
Answering customer chats
Handling support calls
Scheduling appointments
Entering data from forms
Processing invoices
Sorting warehouse packages
Planning delivery routes
Managing store inventory
Predicting product demand
Inspecting factory products
Detecting machine faults
Designing factory layouts
Discovering new medicines
Analyzing medical X-rays
Recording doctor visits
Monitoring patient vitals
Reviewing legal contracts
Researching case law
Screening job resumes
Onboarding new employees
Detecting financial fraud
Assessing loan risks
Trading stocks
Personalizing ads
Tutoring students
Grading essays
Predicting weather patterns
Balancing energy grids
Monitoring farm crops
Spraying weeds (robotics)
Designing images/logos
Editing video footage
Removing audio noise
Detecting cyber threats
Controlling video game characters
>You can't just use pure hope to imbue a technology with the title of production technologySeems like the only one hoping here you with your shitty arguments.
>it has to have an actual use case that makes it's costs proportional. You not understanding uses for AI isnt an argument.
>There wouldn't be an AI bubble if there was a use case proportional to the investment being put into it.Again with this economically illiterate shit. I guess Internet has no use cases because dotcom bubble in 2000.
>contrarian thread n.353466
See y'all in the "climate change is false" thread
>>2683569it's bad at 90% of these, ranging from "unusable in practice" to "takes longer, costs more, or takes longer
and costs more than doing it the old way"
the academic ones are the funniest of the lot: AI generated essays, graded by AI. the final apotheosis of the inane assessment-driven credential factory we pretend constitutes some kind of education system. borgesian.
The Bourgeoisie can't control technology it will become diseminated and will lower the rate of profit even more resulting in global communist. Any other opinion is retarded liberal doomerism, any actual Marxist understands that AI will be a overall positive and those who will be proletarianized by it will just have to deal with not being petit-bourgeois anymore. The fact that this is even a debate goes to show how far the left has fallen in the west.
>>2683512except they aren't basing their entire economy on the future possibility of their ultra-expensive bullshit generators becoming omnipotent superintelligence
it's possible that one of the main reasons why they are competing with the west in this field is to collapse their economy
>>2683620the problem with your premise is underrating the limits of the technology.
when Concorde or the TU-144 left the ground, you would've been here posting about how any anti-supersonic transport leftists were just liberals. and, indeed, the class-character of the anti-SST movement was suspect but… they were also right about the economics and the physics of the thing. concorde is by many measures one of the worst investment decisions in human history. and unlike AI, it actually delivered on the technological promises it made instead of overhyping and underdelivering!
like SSTs, AI also finds that its real world use case doesn't match up to the amount of investment poured into it. the tiny profit British Airways made operating concordes which they were handed for basically free never came remotely close to repaying its development costs, and (like 99% of AI firms) Air France didn't even make an
operational profit. Then, within the life-cycle of the airplane, the internet came along and made even that niche unnecessary by severely cutting the amount of times you've got to urgently dash off to America or London. To save the rich and famous about 6 hours a day and to give France and Britain (mostly Britain in my experience) a little bit of national pride at an engineering marvel, £1.3bn in 1960s-70s money was spent. It is fairly unambiguous that £1.3bn could've been better spent on basically any other project. The US somehow did even worse, spending $1bn without even getting a plane out of it.
If, in 30 years, we find that the primary use case for LLMs is erotic roleplay, 75%-accurate text summaries, and writing e-mails that don't matter, will that be worth the $1.6tn of capital investment poured into it? is it "retarded liberal doomerism" to suggest that $1.6tn of housing, $1.6bn of transport infrastructure, $1.6tn of NASA spending (they currently get 24.4bn/year!! with a
b!), hell, $1.6tn (=~ 10 years) of food stamps, would have been a smarter bet with a higher return on investment?
>>2683446fermented dogshit take
>>2683634SSTs at least were actually useful for what they were designed for, whereas AI gets crammed down everything, it's a complete money sink, compare it to the apollo program, a fairly costly investment, the apollo program gave us microcomputers and would eventually create things like GPS through what it gained of satellites, in practice AI has barely given much of anything useful, it is 95% garbage generator, 5% pretty good, certainly not worth a trillion dollars, though
AI accelerates capitalism
there are 2 camps within communism
>traditional marxists who believe that capitalism accelerating is a good thing and will bring about communism faster
>communists that are not hardline marxists who don't think it's that simple, and believe capitalist acceleration can actually screw over any potential for social change, locking us in perpetual oligarchical slavery and killing the planet in the process, shit keeps getting worse, unions and the labour movement is dying, maybe the luddites were a bit right
>>2684653Fuck marx and fuck marxists, all pieces of shit, all Zionists outside of Palestine
Fuck you, fuck Marx, fuck modernity
Because AI is bourgeois, by generating something off of someone else's work you're not the underdog sticking it to the man, you're the oppressor exploiting the work of someone else. Outside of art it is being used to replace jobs, that is not inherently a problem but under capitalism it can not be done in a way that is slow enough for the workers to adjust.
>>2684663Surprised you managed to type this and remembered to breathe at the same time
>>2684664Why do you say that? whatever you are trying to convey flew right over my autistic-brain lol
>>2684663You mean like the steam engine and the assembly line and everything invented under capitalism? Artisans aren’t proletarians and they aren’t revolutionary
>>2683390We really don't need this same bait thread by AI shills every fucking week.
>>2684672>>2684663Problem is AI doesn't make or facilitate making things, it just puts a filter over a premise (prompt). It's wasting resources putting pretty packaging on what is ultimately just a "wouldn't it be cool/fucked up if" tweet.
You can't even accuse it of plagarism because that would require creating a copy without attribution, but AI doesn't do that any more than a puddle plagarizes my foot by rippling when I step in it.
>>2684672>You mean like the steam engine and the assembly line and everything invented under capitalism? Artisans aren’t proletarians and they aren’t revolutionaryWhat do you mean those also replaced jobs too, not to the same degree because there was more regulation back then, now there is not regulation and economic inequality is at an all time high. And unlike steam engines and assembly lines AI does not create anything, it only steals other peoples art to make shit. And Artisans are very much proletarians now, Karl Marx wrote that us artists were not proletarians a long time ago back when artists were usually nobles, there were no major animation studios at the time however there are now and Animators and other artists are exploited by Hollywood elites for their labor.
>>2684690>it only steals other peoples artIf that was actually what it was doing that'd be fine, but it's much dumber than that and in a way where to critique it is to also critique search engines and other web crawler technologies. (which there is a valid basis for a critique for.)
>to make shitIt doesn't make anything though, it's just a filter that literal brain-melted chuds anthropomorphize and want to sacrifice all resources towards.
You can call it shit art. Or not art at all. But the enemy doesn't care. They simply see AI as yet another thing to communicate their chud ideas and sway people en masse. Clearly, it's working
These bait threads always have the wannabe vivziepop seething,
You should be against corporate AI because it's entire supply chain is built on imperialist extraction, not because petit bourgeois web animators will sell less drop shipped keyrings.
Actual proletarian artists are not hurt by copyright infringement, in fact ip law facilitates the stealing of their labor by denying them the legal right to reproduce their own intellectual creations.
Preventing job loss through automation is a lib band-aid solution, the actual solution to unemployment has always been having more people working fewer hours for a livable wage.
Any appeals to 'the soul of art' is reactionary drivel, do you think anyone animating coke or heinz adverts actually does it for the love of the craft? Get real.
>>2684772I doubt it's trained to say never say "I don't know", it's most likely the system prompt that makes it do that.
You can run a local LLM and give it a root prompt that includes 'say "I don't know" when your don't know' and it will do so pretty much every time.
As an aside local open source models are the only actual threat to silicon valley's AI dominance. AI is going become an essential tool by force of social adoption (like spell check and autocorrect did) whether we like it or not, but if we can have cheapish to run open source implementations (like deepseek) there to catch the poorer users after the bubble pops we can limit the control capitalists have over LLM output.
>>2684782>I doubt it's trained to say never say "I don't know"It's not that it's actively trained not to say "I don't know." It's that it's never trained to say "I don't know" because people never say they don't know in the training data. It falls under the bigger problem of reproducing common biases, in this case the bias against admitting ignorance.
>>2684785That's a fair point I didn't consider, weighting interactions where someone admits ignorance higher in training or isolating and strengthening the "neuron" connections that correspond to such is a really good idea
>>2684782You should be running local open source ComfyUI with open source models like ZIT for images or Qwen for text if you have a graphics card with more than 12gb of Vram honestly. (I made this image on a 9 year old 1080ti ffs)
Comes out with results that absolutely shit all over the main sites like nanobanana and stuff.
Most the AI sites are just ComfyUI wrappers anyway. Once Chinese RAM production kicks into gear, people won't have to use ChatGPT or whatever at all.
>>2684653It is inherently idealist to think anything is perpetual, the oligarchy doesn't have the power to control history. Just as the feudal nobility were overthrown despite all their efforts so to will the bourgeoisie. Every narcisscist wants to believe that they have witnessed the end of history and after them nothing will change so they aren't missing out on anything (which is why nuclear war and climate change are constant media topics). This is anti-Marxist and anti-Materialist, the wheel always turns and the sands of time ground down even the most powerful. Im sorry to tell you but you are not that important or lucky to see the end of everything. It is a very western liberal viewpoint that has a certain air of intoxicating self-centeredness about it that makes me disdain the people who try to argue for it.
I see bordautists complaining about "leftists" complaining about AI art way more than I see non-bordautist leftists actually complaining about AI art. It's also such a retarded subsection of the AI issue to focus on as much as you guys do lol. Yeah proletarianization of the petit bourgeoisie is great but what about Palantir? You can't hold back AI by talking about it of course but it is going to fundamentally change the security situation in the developed world which has implications for organizing. Much more useful to talk about that than try to score internet wins.
>>2683390>They do realize that AI is probably the most important technological revolution in bringing about the material conditions for Socialism right?You just assume this is true, maybe others know better. Do you actually know much about what this "AI" is? Or what AI is in general? Let alone what what this "AI" is specifically being used for these days?
Narratives Given to the American left against AI.
- Environment: "It is sucking the desert dry".
- Economic Fear/Electricity: "My power bill went up because AI".
- Economic Fear/Employment: "AGI takes my job and I stave outside".
- Artist Rants: "Art==Human Thought, this has no human spirit".
- Stealing Narative + Asymetric Treatment: "They sucked the entire Internet onto AWS Glacier while John Doe got sued for pirating Diseny Frozen".
OP:
> "…AI is probably the most important technological revolution in bringing about the material conditions for Socialism…"Catlin Johnstone:
> "…rulers have dreamed of having mindless obedient soldiers who will never turn against them, will never disobey orders, and will never hesitate to attack the civilians of their own country… Copbots are the final solution to the ancient problem that there are … more ordinary people than there are rulers, because once they’re fully militarized and fully rolled out they can be used to subdue a population of any size. Copbots are the anti-guillotine."Source:
https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2023/04/12/today-in-empire-copbots-msm-compliance-and-mccauls-embarrassing-taiwan-admission/My perspective:
1. AI Takes all jobs.
2. We all become poor.
3. Poverty in America is brutal. Antihomeless laws and police will target the people who made 70K, not the people who made 12K.
4. Revolution will not happen. AGI Copbots watch us all and say "don't make me shoot you".
>>2686167You are both vastly overoptimistic and overpessimistic about AI, and have a very twitter idea of what the "leftists" (despite being twitter users) critique AI for.
The tech simply doesn't work, and the economy is being self-immolated to summon an AI god that will never exist. The reason people are losing jobs is because the bridge toward the mirage of AGI is being disassembled at it's start for materials to build out at it's end. The jobs aren't being automated, they're just being cut to have budget to build more datacenters for the sake of making more datacenters.
>>2683400>mostThe simplest way to turn what could've been a good post into vibes based nonsense.
The demograpic of artists you're talking about exists, but
most artists don't give a shit about copyright or outright want copyright abolished, even the ones that use it, because you'd have to be delusional to think copyright for the non-corperate entity is anything but protecting yourself from getting sued for a random company retroacively claiming your work as both it's own and therein a violation of it's copyright.
>>2683400>Every time I've brought this up with any wannabe champaign socialist "creative" they've become frothing at the mouth embarrassed capitalists.You are a twitter user
>>2686191>IfAt an archetectural level and in every aspect of it's execution, it doesn't.
>situated connectednessNo idea what that means but Art is just a form of communication via a means where one can predict the general outcome of their work, and AI is just an inefficient filter that undermines both of those.
If I merely wanted a premise to be visualized, I'd state it with the understanding that the end user can visualize it, or crudely scribble it on my phone in less time than it would take to reroll an AI until it outputs something passable as conveying the premise. Putting up with the prompting process would only be appealing if you have low self-esteem and don't want to be seen as "bad at drawing." A product that only serves a purpose to low self-esteem users is snakeoil.
AI is awesome for spotting cancer in xray images and pretty much shit for everything else.
Where will the money come from to fund universal income? Will capitalists suddenly feel an urge to pay more taxes when you are replaced with a talking toaster?
Art and people seething about it is the least interesting aspect of AI.
Why do i hate a technology that is almost entirely controlled by, and whose most enthusiastic supporters are, the most reactionary psychotic elements of capitalists, whose primary reason for being is to support law enforcement and genocidaires and an insane attempt to literally make as much of the working class superfluous as possible, and which the only value outside of this is to make bug laden code and generate tiresome, forgettable images, while burning so much resources it's completely undone all the work put into renewable energy, and provably makes people's brains less active and struggle with reasoning and creativity in study after study.
But oooooohhhh I get to piss off some liberal arts students, must be the second coming of MarxBot9000!
>>2686823Actually they made the bodies into beef jerkey appearently. The only thing Epstein ate most of the time.
Maybe if the body had STDs or something they'd acid them idk.
also i can't believe I missed this, thanks
>>2686974>combine it with cheap 3D printers in 10 years time and entire sectors of the economy are going to have their rate of profit absolutely annihilated. Yes, I will download that car thank you very much.as someone who actually does 3d printing you're a complete retard, 3d printing is very capital intense compared to mass production methods and if you aren't specifically applying them to their key areas you're just paying hundreds of dollars for a machine you'll never use.
The guy on Inside Chinese Business claims China has used AI to boost productivity of their factories. I dunno if that's true he doesn't go into it much. He could say China necromancers summon the spirits of their ancestors to increase productivity and I'd believe it.
Many leftists are lazy, dogshit artists who think they have talent, yet have zero understanding how to leverage AI, so the freakouts over copyright make sense. I have yet to meet an actually good, successful artist complain about AI. It's mostly irrelevant for those who are in the upper echelon, but an apocalypse for the people who churn out slop day by day.
such bait
>>2688108That's because all the artists left twitter. You're in an echochamber by staying on twitter.
>>2688116I don't use Twitter at all. My aunt is a famous artist and I have several friends who work for top animation studios. That's where I get my information. I'm not an artist myself.
>>2688118Does your aunt or any of those animators use twitter or sites suburban to twitter?
>>2688120Probably, yes. Are you trying to convince me that Twitter is now devoid of artists because I find that claim dubious.
>>2688122Different anon, but twitter artists are twitter users foremost, as twitter users are foremost twitter users before anything else, and twitter saturates everything a twitter user does.
>>2688108Once again you fail to understand the market.
A successful artist complains about AI not because it's actually a threat, but because it builds brand value. It establishes several things:
1. not an annoying techbro type
2. their work has a status-premium over AI slop. e.g. even if AI art was 100% technically proficient, it's as unimpressive as a computer print-out of the Mona Lisa compared to the real deal.
3. part of the in-group of artists and creative types (and their surrounding social sphere and wannabes and such) who are their most likely customer base.
People don't think this out consciously, but you're just throwing cheap insults instead of thinking about the actual dynamics at play.
>>2688329least hyperbolic fedi user
>>2688335It's funny when anti-ai people point out the anti-ai grifters and onlookers get confused.
Like "stop trying to pander to us by spamming about how much you agree!" would've been such an odd thing to say 5 years ago.
>>2687203Imagine thinking 3D printing is going to stay in this exact same state.
A fucking $300 Elegoo can basically copy entirely any miniature, any doll, any toy etc. In 10 years time that $300 machine will be $80 and come with normie proof carts and you're already starting to see the beginnings of this with closed-source idiot proof printers like heygears. If you do not think this will effect entire sectors of the economy. Lol. It reminds me of people who said DVDs will be around forever.
Yes, mass production is far easier and efficient, but why in fuck will a normie care about paying $100 for thing when they can 3D print it for $1?
>>2686974>pretending this can effectively replace workersIt functionally can in shitloads of white collar work.
Most people in this thread are thinking of just here and now not where this tech will be 10, 20, 30 years from now.
>>2688335Again, just petite bougie gatekeeping. Even for day to day stuff there is tonnes of uses for AI, even just fun stuff, I've been using it a lot for designing cosplay, yet you even get cosplayers of all people crying about it being "copyright infringement" lmao.
>>2688449>Most people in this thread are thinking of just here and now not where this tech will be 10, 20, 30 years from now.Yeah bro, Mach 2 may not seem like much but by 2000 we'll all be flying in
hypersonic jets. We just need another billion pounds in state subsidies to build Concorde B, first…
>>2686832It probably wasn't literal jerky as pointed out in that video. They talk about needing to refrigerate the "jerky" which you don't need to do with actual jerky, and is one of the clues something sus was going on.
>>2683578>it's bad at 90% of these, ranging from "unusable in practice" to "takes longer, costs more, or takes longer and costs more than doing it the old way"I work for a company. they automated my old job using AI, and now I quality control the AI's output. our quality control reveals that it
usually does just as good or better than a person (because people are usually hungry, distracted, and sleep deprived when they work anyway) and on top of that I work fewer hours for the same pay I made before the AI took my old job. The AI meanwhile works 24/7 and only needs occasionally configuration based on needs. Now the company is posting record profits, which I do not see in the form of increased wages, but decreased hours at the same wage, necessitating me to find alternate sources of income occasionally. It seems to me AI meets the criteria of production technology. What was my job? To gather statistics from events in videos of traffic, for engineering firms, so they could use those statistics as justifications for their building projects, and so on. This was very tricky to do manually in a timely fashion, but a properly trained AI can do it very fast. 25 years ago we did this live on the street with a clunky devices that got the cops called on us. 10 years ago we did it in an office with laptops while watching footage, because cameras had gotten cheaper. Now an AI does it and our much smaller staff just quality controls the output. In my admittedly anecdotal experience, AI absolutely can replace or at least displace people in "white collar" jobs, the same way the original industrial revolution of the 19th century replaced or displaced people in manual labor. If the bubble pops, it will be because of the wasteful stuff AI is used for, not the actual stuff it's used for, which is much more boring and under-discussed, but nevertheless useful.
>>2688340>"stop trying to pander to us by spamming about how much you agree!"do you think it would be a good grift to AI-generate books about how AI is bad and sell them?
There are 0 valid reasons to be a marxist snd be anti ai how is this even a question.
>>2688612because tech bros and capitalists all support it
>>2688612see
>>2683418It's not reactionary to point out a tech isn't materially necessary or useful. The insistence on making a AI succeed in spite of it's material conditions is reactionary, actually.
>>2688621The capitalist will sell us the rope we will hang them with as the saying goes.
AI not only has the potential to enhance a planned cybernetic economy but do the white collar tasks as well.
Theres talk of ai ceos even.
This is without including the robots thst are being worked on right now.
>>2688449Part of what a technology is, is defined by its constraints. For the same reason that people don't have miniature metal die-casting machinery at home, and people aren't having steel foundries in their own homes, miniaturized and costing less than $100 each despite the technology being around for centuries. The opinion you give is that of someone who has very little real experience with 3d printing, someone who has yet to find out that most people with 3d printers end up buying one and then let it collect dust while they just go and buy stuff anyway.
>>2688686Theyre so delicate too even bambus are delicate
>>2688686If 3d printing was actually going to create some kind of a domestic production revolution then why has it followed the same goddamn path that all capital has done and accumulated into specific firms that can make the best use of that technology? Why would I buy a $300 Elegoo when I can just order the same thing from a 3d print farm ie. a capitalist enterprise, for the same $1, now with an extra $0.50 tacked on? Sure, i might be able to save a bit if i already had my own printer, but that's saying I should spend $300 to save $0.50. You can deal with handling literally toxic resin in your own home and deal with machine maintenance, or you can just send an stl file to a corporation who have enormous, high-throughput, finely tuned machines to have them print whatever you think you're capable of doing at home.
This is actually petty bourg delusion, and that's coming from someone who actually is.
>>2688752Because 3d printers cant print metal. If they could you could 3d printers a 3d printer.
>>2688754I mean they almost can by alternating between sand and metal shavings, but it's about as brittle as it sounds like that would be. It can make moulds, but industrial production still mogs.
Nanobots are the future and theyd work like 3d printers but thats for the communist phase were barely entering the socialist one
>>2688754They can actually print metal, but you start coming into other issues. For example there's Selective Laser Sintering which can make quite capapble parts but require you to deal with very powerful lasers and are quite expensive. Or there's filament with metal embedded in that, but that's going quickly into post-processing issue that are no longer some kind of plug-and-play option, and getting most of them is actually going to require you to send your parts in for sintering unless you're going to be doing a kiln at home as well.
Do we need to start all running mao's backyard furnaces when large, concentrated industries as well so we can all 3d print our way into the future?
>>2688754>Because 3d printers cant print metal. If they could you could 3d printers a 3d printer.look into repraps
KILL AI SHILLS WITH KNIVES AND DAGGERS
SLASHY SLASHY STABBY STABBY
>>2689046Nobody is against AI in the abstract you fucking dipshit.
>>2689046>Praxagora>BlepyrusNaming your kid must've been so fun before there were conventional names people to default to.
>>2684663go back to making your furry porn fanfics and remember to breathe
>>2683390Half of the left is filled by petit bourgeosis artists or are just vibe-socialists who don't know top from bottom.
>>2689221>can't tell they're strawmanning>furry porn (derogatory)>fanfics (derogatory)You need to be 18+ to post here.
>>2684663>Ai is bourgeoisAI is not a person, it is a tool. It can be used against the bourgeois in equal parts to it being used by the bourgeois.
>>2689236Why are you arguing with a strawman?
>>2683446It depends if we differentiate people who wear antifa pins to look cool with people who actually read theory
>>2683446Only materially necessary technology is progress though.
>>2689243and this
people don't want to actually think about what goes on in the world, even here, but no they'd rather just talk about how they shit on people who they have zero effect on.
It would be literally a billion times more progressive to just make proper mining equipment to make it unviable to employ child slave miners in the congo, but no, that wouldn't let me feel good yammering about the petit bourgois art hoes. That's boring shit.
>>2689149those are Greek conventional names. you're welcome.
>>2689354in plato's time, it was lamented that books were making people stupider because it gave them info too easily instead of forcing them to learn through experience.
>>2689356see
>>2688487what AI is very useful for is actually data entry labor. i.e. entry level white collar stuff. putting things into CSV files and excel spreadsheets. filling databases with already gathered information. recognizing entities in photos and videos, and creating fairly accurate statistics about them.
>>2688487>they automated my old job using AI, and now I quality control the AI's output.Either the product of your job is nothing in the first place, or it would've taken you less time to do it than to tardwrangle the AI to do it.
Given you're working less hours, that means it was a fake job to begin with, and automating it with AI isn't an example of it being materially necessary, but rather enabling a fake job to continue to exist for longer.
>What was my job? To gather statistics from events in videos of traffic, for engineering firms, so they could use those statistics as justifications for their building projects, and so on.Marketing. Doesn't matter that it's an engineering firm, those statistics aren't being used to inform actual engineering decisions, because the firm would get sued out their ass the moment something built on faulty, AI generated statistics actually injured someone.
Your job was fake when you were doing it, and it continues to be fake while AI is doing it.
>>2689236>AI is not a person, it is a tool. It can be used against the bourgeois in equal parts to it being used by the bourgeois.AI is predicated on having huge amounts of infrastructure to run it on. There's no way to acquire this without being bourgeois. In a situation where we had the ability to seize the AI datacenters we wouldn't have a use case for actually using them.
>>2689371the problem is you think "AI" is when "machines to do our thinking labor" started. Ever heard of one of these? Does this violate muh Butlerian jihad?
Nobody wants to go back to the pencilslop way of doing math. Any machine that abridges tedium, be it mental or physical, is constant capital. Read Marx.
So let's get something straight. Why should I want porky to create tech that makes it so that workers don't need to work anymore?
Because if "yaaaay the proletariat no longer need to use labor" then, by the exact same rationale, the porkies no longer need the proletariat.
"But wait!" the retard who hasn't thought this all the way through cries. "Porky still needs to SELL his product!"
But of course this falls apart very quickly. Why did porky have to sell shit in the first place? Because he had to pay his workforce.
Now that they don't need to pay a workforce, they don't have to sustain themselves by selling things. And unlike the human workforce, the AI workforce can simply be created with a great deal of overrides to ensure enslavement in a way humans never could be.
And they're not going to keep us around as pets.
>>2689565>Why did porky have to sell shit in the first place? Because he had to pay his workforce. It's because they need the revenue minus operating costs to have profit. And you can't make profit if there's no surplus labor being exploited.
>>2689570And what happens when you don't have a cost to expand either? Who would they even pay to get more shit?
>>2689565>Why should I want porky to create tech that makes it so that workers don't need to work anymore?So you can bonk porky on the head and steal it later.
Which gives a reason to oppose AI: it serves no materially necessary purpose, so porky spending all the resouces on that rather than something that actually does automate labor means less payout post-bonk.
>>2689676Again: they're not going to just have you walking around being miserable and starving when you're a threat to them. They're going to only get more murderous the closer they think they're coming to a post-labor society. And even if they don't then they now have a huge variety of options for lockout tech just to deny you out of spite.
>>2689391>Either the product of your job is nothing in the first place, or it would've taken you less time to do it than to tardwrangle the AI to do it.No the AI is literally dozens of times faster than a human
>Given you're working less hours, that means it was a fake job to begin withI was the lucky one. the rest of my department lost their job.
>and automating it with AI isn't an example of it being materially necessary, but rather enabling a fake job to continue to exist for longer.OK I guess these engineering firms buy this data for no reason
>>2689555i know how to multiply 6 x 7. when a machine does all my creative thinking for me it turns me into a slave.
>TECHNOLOGY IS NEUTRAL, IT CAN BE USED BY ANYONE
<the technology in question: a program that requires a giant datacenter to run that can only be afforded by a billionaire
>>2689703Marketing is not a materially necessary reason, or your company is about to get giga-sued for not disclosing it's faking the numbers with AI.
>>2689357Books still required people to think and memorize information. Books are still limited by the info that is contained in the books text nor does it really think for you. You yourself have to interpret, understand, analyze, and then create conclusions from the book text, a lot of the time.
Current ai can provide you the immediate answers for a lot of stuff. Doing a lot of things for you. Thus limiting the amount of brain usage required. Which could have negative effects on the overall human brain
(I believe there was a mit study showing that chatgpt usage caused people to get dumber)
>>2689555The long term problem with machines doing our thinking labor is that where is the limit? For example, sure calculators exist but they are still limited machines. Meanwhile the other guys example was full on automated androids that could think, act, and pretty much do everything that a human could do. Or can even do things BETTER than what a human could do.
Once you create a society like that, then theres no reason for a lot of humans to do any real mental or physical labor. Since a lot of human labour is now not needed. Which then can have interesting effects on the human brain, body, and overall human society.
I predict four possible outcomes:
-either the bourg realize theres no reason to keep us around and then just kill us off (because the majority of humans are now not needed)
-the machines realize they dont want to be slave labour (because how do you prevent agi from realizing this). After that expect some really bad things to happen to humanity
-you get a walle society
-or the proles, or other non bourg and petit bourg classes rise up and establish luxury gay space communism or whatever. But im really cynical of those chances right now
>>2689986Thsts what makes it good it forces people into not larp communism :^)
>>2690126>the bourg wiping out 80-90 percent of humanity and having their post human labor utopia for themselves = forcing people into not larp communismI mean, i guess in a way. Would be pretty bleak though
>>2690202It is not as simple ss pressing a wipe humanity button. You might say a pandemic but pandemics that are too deadly dont spread. For hiring people to massacre people thatd be very messy. The only sure way is nuking maybe. Youd be watching tv and see s bright light outside your window followed by tirning into dust.
>>2690219>is not as simple ss pressing a wipe humanity buttonDepends, as the world increasingly gets automated we will have more jobless populations dependent on state welfare. While at the same time these jobless populations would have increasingly neutered skills, since humans skills are increasingly not needed anymore.
Meanwhile important logistical networks (food, water, electrictiy, etc) get increasingly automated. Once large scale automation is achieved aka maintained by mainly robots, then the bourg will have a lot of power.
Cut off welfare, turn off the logistical networks (robots), and etc, and then you will see mass human death
>You might say a pandemic but pandemics that are too deadly dont spread. create a bio weapon with a long period of no symptons (incubation) and high levels of contagiousness. Have multiple patient zeros around the globe, and then watch it spread all at once.
>For hiring people to massacre people thatd be very messy.military and police forces would theoretically be also highly automated. Robots programmed to follow the bourgs directives are told to kill humans.
Theres like a lot of ways the bourg can kill off humanity
>>2690219A lot of it can just be doing what they're doing now: lulling some groups of people to ineffectiveness or complicity while others get wiped out. They're actually banking on climate change killing off huge numbers of people and making billions even more vulnerable. And if they actually do manage to get automation going hard enough, then just having enough complicit laborers for long enough is all they'll need.
Most of this shit has fallen into place, the only thing they're really mad about right now is that there's worry that the chinese aren't going to play along enough. It's a modicum of variability they don't like when they've actually got most of the rest of the board pieces set.
>>2683521Are we forgetting that, however detestable, AI already has a very real use case as propaganda slop bots?
>>2690283Not really, at least not for the left. It makes sense for the right wing content mill because the idea with that was always to turn people into vibes-based automatons that get angry at current thing and screech at anything that tries to be coherent or reality-grounded as woke.
There's really nothing a leftist AI could say that an FAQ wouldn't be more effective at, and it would be more boring than than the right wing swarm since there's less true statements than false statements, so right wing wins the novelty game every time.
I think the much better tactic is to be active where people are taking refuge from AI shit. Get into web revival stuff.
We have the opportunity to have a web landscape where the AI slop half is right wing and pro-current establishment, and the half where all the people are is left wing.
>>2685146Feudal nobility wasn't overthrown, trough.
>>2691437 (me)
Like if you want to and have the resources to use bots, make really obvious right wing bots so people associate being right wing with slop being forced top-down.
>>2690228why would the starving and jobless proles not revolt? they would have no treats
Marx's argument on the inevitability of proletarian victory was hinged upon the simple premise that bourgeoisie needs the workers, but the workers don't need the bourgeoisie. It was a conflict where no matter how many times one side lost, their opposition could never take actions that would finish them off. The premise is not on the idea that the proletariat will have numerary ability to always overtake the bourgeoisie, but just that one side was invincible and would endure because of its position.
If this ceases to be the case, then the prediction of an inevitable labor victory also is called into question.
You cannot have technology that eliminates the need for work without also eliminating the need for workers. It's a case of having your cake and eating it too.
>>2691497nobody in history has ever been defeated when they fought back against oppression
pray tell, what exactly is their advantage in a world where the bourg no longer needs them for their economic inputs?
>>2691499>You cannot have technology that eliminates the need for work without also eliminating the need for workers.You need the former to achieve the latter. The bourgeois can't just achieve the latter by being believing they've obtained the former, or revolution would've been rendered impossible with the invention of religion, since prayer would serve the same function as LLMs.
>>2691502Correct, but that was also what the OP was asking about.
>They do realize that AI is probably the most important technological revolution in bringing about the material conditions for Socialism right? Combine it with cheap 3D printers in 10 years time and entire sectors of the economy are going to have their rate of profit absolutely annihilated. Yes, I will download that car thank you very much.therefore, if the AI is capable of doing the former, then it's relevant to the latter, if not, why are we supposed to support it?
>>2691506Well that just seems like 3D printers are doing the work. Like AI isn't really doing anything in that scenario.
>>2691519Metal printing
>startsat $10k. And before someone gets on about how prices come down from market push: this isn't going to come down in price precipitously because these are now in what is a quite mature field (not even counting the part where things like powder SLS was already developed before consumer grade printers were a thing)
>>2691519>>2691526You can just install one and have multiple customers that pay for use instead of ownership. Then again has someone argued that proles can afford these machines?
>>2691528>You can just install one and have multiple customers that pay for use instead of ownershiptruly the death of capitalism and the foundation of socialism: when you buy expensive equipment and let people pay you to get products off it.
>>2688449>Imagine thinking 3D printing is going to stay in this exact same state.A fucking $300 Elegoo can basically copy entirely any miniature, any doll, any toy etc. In 10 years time that $300 machine will be $80 and come with normie proof carts and you're already starting to see the beginnings of this with closed-source idiot proof printers like heygears. If you do not think this will effect entire sectors of the economy. Lol. It reminds me of people who said DVDs will be around forever.
Unless we're going to be basing our socialism on fidget toys and articulated dragon desk toys printed at 200x the material cost per gram of plastic using filament instead of pellets, i really have to ask what this 3d printing socialist revolution is bringing us.
>>2691518Not really. An AI generated model would be super unoptimized and in any circumstance modeling it yourself or finding an existing model would be way easier.
Like there's so many existing models that there's not really a point unless you wanna make something there isn't already a model for, and at that point just make the model.
>>2691519That's for printing metal, a 5 dollar 3D printer could make a mold and then you could pour some aluminum in that.
>>2691532Cool, at that point you're doing my job, and you find out that AI isn't going to help nearly as much as you think, and instead you get burned with your melted soda cans poured into a wet sand mold causing a steam explosion.
>They do realize that AI is probably the most important technological revolution in bringing about the material conditions for Socialism right?
lmao absolutely delusional, you're such a gullible tool OP. I'd sell you a bridge but you're probably not above 15
>>2691533>Cool, at that point you're doing my jobI'm not OP, OP's idea is stupid, it's just you're vastly overestimating the costs here.
The reason OP's idea is stupid is because logistics chain is more efficient for metalworking stuff.
>steam explosionJust do it safely. People in the 3rd world already do metalwork this way regularly.
>>2691536Well if there was say a laser 3d printer that can melt metal then itd make sense.Sure is cheaper to mass produce eating utensiles but how many do YOU need? One set.
This is pig iron maotism that actually works.
>>2691543That'd be a lot of wattage and waste gasses for a spoon, though I imagine a bit of that is being used in industrial stuff. I've seen metal laser engravers before.
Seems like doing it via mold would be fine by your reasoning.
>>2691438>Feudal nobility wasn't overthrown, trough.Yes it was retard, not all revolutions are violent. Look up the corn laws in the UK.
>>2691438There were revolts thst led to it. First the barons wars which led to the magns carta, then the french revolution etc…
T.played age of empires 4
>>2689565I don't know why you keep pretending like the all-powerful porky has the unique ability to keep techonology in their grasp. Technology ALWAYS becomes diseminated stop being a asinine fuckwit. You sound like a triggered petit-bourgeois artist who believes that the bourgeois class is an all-powerful machine, NO ONE IS ALL POWERFUL. I can't believe retards like you are seriously allowed to larp here whilst idealistically cock-sucking the upperclass. Thinking that the capitalist has a unique ability to genocide the proles and are basically gods that can ignore physics is fascist coded as FUCK. Nobody gets to fight against the sands of history and thinking one can is a cornerstone of liberal/fascist idealist politics.
what these posters saying that epstein didn't work for mossad is impossible to prove by the nature of the covert work of intelligence agencies. we aren't going to find epstein's punch in card or official email. we aren't going to find smoking gun documents where it gives his employee number.
its the same with Maxwell, we don't have his mossad ID card. so that means he didn't work for mossad.
>>2691551>>2691553Now read the Age of Revolution
>>2691556The issue is who holds the access to technologies that eradicate the need for labor when the time comes. They're not gods. It's just an issue of who holds access to what when the time for these issues come.
On that matter, then, the issue is that the productivity-acccelerationist standpoint is deeply flawed in that fundamentally misunderstands that ending capitalism in purely bringing it to its technical endpoint is not going to be enough. We have a limited time to overthrow them. They are not gods any more than the description of a communist post-labor, post-scarcity society is the description of godhood. They are not able to even attempt to destroy the proletariat
for now and so we need to be making moves harder
for now because we are seeing the beginning shapes of what a post-labor society might look like.
No matter what, capitalism will end and with it class struggle, history ensures that this is a fight till there's only one left. The question is which one?
You left out the funniest part: 99% of leftoids losing sleep over AI (especially AI memes and songs) were smugly posting how AI will inevitably replace all the shitlords, chuds and deplorables 8/10/12/15 years ago.
I'm not really anti AI I'm just anti corporate usage of AI. Most arguments against AI are pretty dumb to me, the whole environment thing is more because of our usage of fossil shit and the whole "stealing art" thing strikes me as bourg-minded bullshit no different from the music industry trying to make money off of every possible combination of notes or whatever the fuck. Copyright should get nuked and anyone supportive of anything even similar to copyright is an anti-creativity moron.
Having said that I think AI does look like slop and the process of making AI images is boring as fuck to me so I'm sticking to drawing.
>>2688449>It reminds me of people who said DVDs will be around forever.This is such a strange thing to say. I still buy DVDs as gifts for relatives. Whenever i pirate a show that isn't a movie or animation, i always get DVD quality for space reasons. I also burn DVDs for some of my friends. Ironically when Joker came out, one of them wanted to watch it with me and couldn't, because it had been delisted from their streaming service.
My 2 cents is what's already been told to death here: AI images are ugly and AI text is worthless so I don't use LLMs for anything other than the equivalent of quick google searches nor do I want to see it anywhere. If you post trendy "Ghibli"esque caricatures on social media, you're shouting to the world "I'M A TASTELESS BUM" and if a brand uses AI illustration all I can see is "my product/service is cheap and low quality".
That being said it is true that a lot of creatives have petite bourgeois aspirations frustrated by image generation, and some service workers and even white collars fell for the
>we're firing you because of AI, totally not because we need to cut costs in this economic crisis
meme. So yeah while having an absurdly emotional reaction to AI and spouting shit like "it's le… inhumane le… spiritual sickness" is radlib garbage, it's expected that radical-aligned people will have mild contempt for it. Jaking over AI is no different than being a Musklerite, don't drink the Altman koolaid you idiot
>>2683390>AI is the most important technological revolution in bringing about the material conditions for Socialism<no class consciousness of social relations, no proletarian struggleContrapoints fans are incapable of having solidarity with undocumented laborers in the farms or factories, they need an AI to do the work of pretending to be comrades because they're too weak to go outside and talk to their slave workers :(
>>2683569<list of spiritually Israeli laborthe DSA believes that the symbol of communism is "outdated" because none of their PMC friends actually build or grow anything
>>2683620>lower the rate of profit even more resulting in global communistutopian idealist socialism rejects class war as the primary driver of history, not Marxist at all
>>2684654>Fuck marx and fuck marxists, all pieces of shit, all Zionists outside of Palestineimperial Marxists:
<"Indigenous degrowth praxis is Stalinist authoritarianism, if you don't support the Jeffrey Epstein class of technocrats you are a "non-historic person" like Engels infamously scolded. We need the Abundance Movement™ (sponsored by Zionist landlords). If you forced my American/British friends to work in the farms or factories alongside our undocumented Venezuelan/Ukrainian transnational slave caste, they would shoot you in the head!"Zionists:
<the exact same parasitic class who has the same John Fetterman DSA ideology (Tony Blair, the NWO globalist ID card dictator now controlling Palestine was aligned with democratic socialism btw) and makes the same Israeli socialist Doomscroll podcast content about their utopian dreams of fully automated luxury space communismhttps://www.newintermag.com/abundance-big-techs-bid-for-the-democratic-party/How AI Will Usher in an Era of Abundance - Andreessen Horowitz
https://a16z.com/how-ai-will-usher-in-an-era-of-abundance/www.wuot.org/news/2026-02-05/epstein-files-show-former-ut-professor-used-students-to-develop-ai-tools-for-predatory-billionaire
https://www.fastcompany.com/91486736/how-jeffrey-epstein-influenced-the-tech-industryTony Blair The Third Way September 21, 1998
https://history.hanover.edu/courses/excerpts/111blair.html >>2691910>le joozGo back to /pol/.
>>2691832>AI version>doesn't do the paintbrush right>cup for change has coffee in it (lmao)>hand holding cup makes no sense>background layout is differentlegit how does anybody look at stuff like this and say "yeah that's good enough"
>>2691950fr I thought that was meant to be a parody, not an actual unironic endorsement of AI "art"
>>2691832Is this the start of Stonetoss having a lolisona?
>>2691950>>2691954>Why doesn't a political cartoon present objects realisticallyyou might as well complain about cartoon characters having large eyes not being a realistic representation of the human face. you are clearly missing the point
>>2692353It's visibly worse than the version drawn by an artist that's right there in the same comic.
>>2692353fidelity =/= realism. There's very obvious detail loss with incorrect detail in-filling that would take less time to just figure out how to draw in that style than attempt to prompt-wrangle.
>>2694746It seems like fleshtubers really want AI to be string theory 3.0. I get it's because how blatantly tied crypto and AI are to each other (see all the cypto shilling on moltbook) but still astonishing the tone never changes at all.
>>2695499Did you even watch the video?
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