The classical Marxist schema wherein the industrial proletariat forms the decisive vanguard of socialist revolution must be ruthlessly interrogated and superseded when confronted with the objective reality of advanced settler colonialism, parasitic racist imperialism, and the labor aristocracy that binds large swathes of the so-called "working class" to the reproduction of empire.
The settler working class in America which are predominantly white, but including layers of assimilated non-white labor is not, and cannot be, the leading revolutionary subject in the imperial core. This is not moralism or identity politics; it is materialist analysis rooted in the global division of labor, superprofits extracted from the Third World (and internal colonies), and the bribe of relative privilege that turns potential revolutionary classes into social chauvinists or passive beneficiaries of genocide and plunder.
First, we must consider the structure of imperialism as analyzed through a MLM lens informed by dependency/world-systems insights and the theory of the labor aristocracy. The U.S. is the primary pole of the First World empire, a non-productive, consumption-heavy formation sustained by the superexploitation of the global South and the ongoing primitive accumulation against internal colonies (New Afrika/Black nation, occupied Turtle Island/Indigenous nations, occupied Aztlán, etc.). The "wages" of American workers are not merely the fruit of their labor but a redistributed share of imperialist superprofits via crumbs, cheap commodities, home ownership on stolen land, and the ideological bribe of white supremacy/nationalist chauvinism. This creates a clear labor aristocracy whose immediate material interests align more with preserving the imperialist system than overthrowing it. The "white working class" is not exploited in the classical sense that drives revolutionary consciousness; it is co-opted, bought off, and invested in settler-colonial continuity.
Historical evidence abounds from the 1877 railroad strikes through the New Deal labor accords to the post-WWII suburban boom and deindustrialization's selective pain, white workers have repeatedly sided with empire against colonized peoples (e.g., anti-Black pogroms, support for wars of aggression, rejection of reparations or land return). Even in moments of economic distress, reactionary populism and fascist-adjacent MAGA-ism or its left variants tends to dominate rather than proper proletarian internationalism. The classical vanguard role is foreclosed by this structural reality.
In contrast, the colonized masses; New Afrikans (Black people forged in chattel slavery and ongoing national oppression), Indigenous peoples (facing ongoing genocide and land theft), and other internal colonies all remain the principal revolutionary subjects. Their exploitation is not merely economic but existential, national oppression fused with class domination, where the "wage" is survival under carceral colonial terror, environmental racism, and cultural erasure. For them, the contradiction with imperialism is antagonistic and irreconcilable within the existing order. Land, self-determination, and abolition of the settler state are not reforms but preconditions for any genuine socialism.
This necessitates a non-traditional approach to socialism and production. The path forward is not the seizure of production factories by a mythical industrial proletariat but protracted people's war adapted to settler conditions; building dual power in the internal colonies, encircling the beast from within, and forging alliances on the basis of national liberation as the gateway to proletarian internationalism. Production under socialism here cannot mimic Eurocentric models of communist insurrection; it must draw from communal Indigenous traditions of stewardship, New Afrikan cooperative practices born of survival, and Maoist mass-line experiments in self-reliance all decolonized, decentralized, ecologically grounded, and hostile to European bureaucratic commandism / workerism.
The distributed vanguard emerges from these oppressed nations because their struggle is the sharpest knife against the imperialist beast. It is they who can most readily grasp the mass line, mobilize the broadest united front against settler hegemony, and sustain protracted struggle without the illusions of electoralism or social-contract peace. The white settler "proletariat" may join as allies through concrete anti-imperialist action, repudiating white-skin privilege, and submitting to the leadership of colonized vanguards but never as the leading force. To insist otherwise is to tail economism and social chauvinism, betraying dialectical materialism.
In short the colonized are the grave-diggers of empire precisely because empire rests on their graves. Any socialism worthy of the name in this settler hell must be anti-colonial at its core, led by those who have nothing to lose but their chains and everything to reclaim; land, dignity, and a future beyond parasitic "prosperity." The task is not to "unite" a bought-off labor aristocracy with the oppressed but to encircle, isolate, and dismantle the settler state from its internal peripheries outward.
Serve the people principally the most oppressed. Long live the national liberation struggles within the belly of the beast! From the dialectic arises the new synthesis, the distributed vanguard fights for decolonized communism or nothing. These approaches happen to instill way more fear in America's power structures than traditional euro socialism, and this is for a reason; ask yourself the last time you heard the FBI panic about the workers reading club, and then go ahead and look into about how just the words "turtle island" make them think "terror".
280 posts and 76 image replies omitted.>>2706395>actual revolutionary potential comes from organizing the people at the very bottom, the people in very directly violent situations. While this specific segment of the population are more likely to fight back out of desperation they unfortunately don't have the means to revolt and succeed. They don't have the infrastructure to resist effectively or fight back effectively. At best you might end up with small groups who try but are quickly put down by the state. That's what happened to the black panthers.
>That's why the state infiltrates and disrupts these efforts while leaving the respectable left alone. You are misinterpreting what is happening. These people on the fringes of society start out more individually violent or part of violent profit oriented gangs so police focus on them from the start.
>>2706594I agree with most of this; i think the tide has turned and I already mentioned that it has. We stand at a critical conjuncture where the material basis of the settler compact is undergoing visible decomposition. The privileges that historically purchased the loyalty of the white masses, stagnant yet real wages, the suburban homestead, the promise of intergenerational wealth transmission, the relative immunity from police terror are evaporating before our eyes; slave patrol federal agents killing two white people in broad day are the physical manifestation of this shift, put on full display. The younger cohorts of the settler nation confront a reality unprecedented in the postwar period; wages that purchase nothing, permanent rental status, the normalization of houselessness among those raised expecting stability, rampant addiction, the casual brutality of militarized policing now extending into spaces previously more immune.
This is not to suggest that whiteness has ceased to function as a structural position. The relative differentials persist; the Black youth still faces eviction and incarceration at rates the white youth does not. Yet the absolute conditions of the white working class are deteriorating, and this relative proletarianization creates both danger and possibility. Capital's organic intellectuals understand this moment with perfect clarity. We observe their counteroffensive across multiple fronts simultaneously. The algorithmic apparatus of TikTok, Instagram, YouTube's recommendation engines serves as the contemporary equivalent of the company town newspaper, funneling aggrieved young men toward revanchist nationalism, misogynist rage, antisemitic conspiracy, blaming of migrants and blacks for your deteriorating conditions, your loss of visible privileges. The Koch network and its front organizations, Turning Point USA, the various "Young Americans" foundations all operate as the NGO-ization of fascist street energy, capturing the anxiety of the downwardly mobile and directing it toward the scapegoat rather than the capitalist system. This is the info war, the war of position Gramsci described, now waged through the social media sphere, the campus.
There exists a physical war as well. The paramilitary formations grow bolder. The vigilante murders of protesters, the storming of capitols, the armed intimidation of leftists, these are the kinetic expression of the same ideological operation. The ruling class, facing a legitimation crisis, gambles that organized white reaction can discipline the surplus populations more effectively than the formal state apparatus alone.
Our task is dual and very urgent. We must physically defend our comrades, our spaces, our organizing efforts from this terror. And simultaneously, we must win the narrative struggle, intervening in the consciousness of these same declassed white youth before the fascists cement their hegemony. We must demonstrate that their feeling of displacement flows not from the immigrant, the trans person, the Black man or woman, but from the very structure of imperial capitalism they have been trained to defend. The social contract is broken. We must ensure they understand who truly broke it, and who offers something other than the endless reproduction of their own domination.
in simple QRD terms, think of how distant much of the older working class whites are from the black working class experience vs the working class white youth of today. There's a material reason for this. For instance, growing up white now, in a climate where you are now likely a permanent renter vs older white working class people being a home owner living in racially divided cities and existing during white flight.
>>2706606Not having enough money to even do white flight in the first place certainly changes dynamics
>>2706609Black people (as a whole) cannot be absorbed into white supremacy, you gotta have one group that’s forever at the bottom of the hierarchy for these categories to exist in the first place. For Canada it’s the First Nations, for Israel it’s Palestinians, and for the US it’s African and African descended people.
>>2706612Capitalism is above white supremacy. White supremacy was just a means to spread capitalism. Obama, Oprah, Jordan, JayZ, the military and identity groups like Foundational Black Americans shows it perfectly possible to integrate blacks.
>>2706624Capitalism has only lasted this long because of white supremacy, DPRK anon went pretty deeply into how it papers over the basic prole vs capitalist contradiction
>>2706625>Capitalism has only lasted this long because of white supremacy, Yet Africa, Asia and all the Americas are capitalist
>how it papers over the basic prole vs capitalist contradictionEnglish exploited the Irish through the capitalist system yet they were the same race. Race is just a diversionary tactic.
>>2706628What do black nationalists like yourself do with mixed people? Put them into segregated camps?
>>2706636You accuse me of desiring to put you in camps. Allow me to correct your misapprehension with the precision you clearly lack. If an actual communist revolution occurred in Amerikkka, someone like you wouldn't even last long enough to make it into the camps. This is not a threat. This is fact. The camps are for those the revolution deems salvageable. Re-education requires subjects capable of education. People, who in this current age can see everything unfurl before their eyes and still maintain their allegiances to white supremacy, no matter how subtle or overt; they would ideally be handled much earlier. Much more quietly.
You will not be granted immunity for reactionary-ism simply because you claim leftism. Nor will you be given special consideration within the struggle.
>>2706636>>English exploited the Irish through the capitalist system yet they were the same race. Race is just a diversionary tactic.And this is exactly why materially Irish in Ireland are not the same as white Irish Americans. Go to ireland, and see how many working class "white" skinned people are pro police vs. the amerikkkan irish.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gESuHAB8zpI"It looks like to us from where we stand, our people, in america have been active proponents of the oppression of others".
Devlin, someone embedded in the Irish Republican struggle, encountered Irish-America's racial interactions and found it unrecognizable. Fredrick Douglass in 1844 Ireland, met a colonized people who recognized his struggle as their own, and he notes very different experiences with irish in amerikkka. The Irish American of the 1960s was deeoply embedded in whiteness through police work, segregation, and antiblack violence. their heritage reduced to stereotypes and American plasticity. Devlin's disgust was the recognition of this betrayal. Returning the key of the city to the Panthers was an attempt to restore Irish republican honor against its American degeneration, to insist the true irish tradition stands with the oppressed.
>>2706580I sucked all these men's cocks btw
>>2706606I’m genuinely convinced now that it’s physically impossible for new-leftists to understand anything related to military matters. You retards genuinely seem to think that if someone has the right politics, they’ll win in any conflict.
>>2706684The armed right wing reactionary couldn't even stop semi-armed widespread riots in 2020, what makes you cucks think you'll fare well if you continue to follow the Minneapolis model, and unleash a situation x100 more intense than that? You think what, it gets out of hand, you just open fire and that's that? You don't even see the traps you fall into in Minneapolis. You think war is physical dominance, your methodology is dated, narrow, crude and you will lose. You'll have to kill us all, and even then, your pathetic empire is over. I don't see you guys even stopping the constant organizing in LA, Minneapolis, anywhere, what makes you think it'll fare well if it boils over into a civil war? good fucking luck, go crawl into the gutter and die like the disgusting pig you are.
>>2706646No I accused you of wanting to put mixed people in camp because they won't support your hotep black nationalism. Instead you admitted to wanting to murder anyone who doesn't believe your racist filth.
Again you are nothing but Black Hammer 2.0. Hope you don't rape as many people as they did before they were rightfully put down.
>>2706705Most American leftists that are revolutionary, and don't sit in theory meetings all day would stomp your dumb white ass for calling black liberation stupid nationalism; you would be shunned out of most spaces. What do you think those same leftists will do when the struggle intensifies? Sit down, your time is over. I'm leaving this site, and going back to the real world of the revolutionary left, a zone you will not be able to get an inch in.
>>2706707you really are black hammer redux. pls don't rape the homeless like they did, kthx
>>2706710You must think that the next social explosion in Amerikkka WONT be centered around the racial settler capitalism's dominance over bodies that dont fit the national white identity. Good luck if you think that, you are in for very rude awakening. Like I said stay far far away from leftist spaces, or anywhere that gets active.
The end result of """"Marxist""" third worldism is always third world Hitlerism.
>>2706703I'm not right-wing khusra yahud worshipper
>>2706859I cannot wait until one of you mossad agents decides it's a good idea to come up to us in person.
>>2706841>muh hitlerwoah scary!
>>2706713>bodies>spaces>>2707571Idi Amin is probably more accurate tbh
>>2707583If you plan on getting in the way of the black and indigenous revolution, then you have good reason to be nervous. It's not a shock that the idea of the true oppressed rising up scares you; you are petite-bourgeoisie and an idealist.
>>2707403>>2707633My yahud malik loves when I post this btw
>>2707633Bro I'm not afraid of you. I'm preparing for the disappointment of the next failed revolution the western left seems determined to go through. Your rhetoric and reasoning is the accumulation of decades of anarchist, radlib and nationalist thought coming together into one disaster. You are not the only person saying this stuff.
Black and Indigenous lefties, anarchists and the homeless are just not enough to win. You keep on saying you will succeed and point to a few small skirmishes mostly with local police and ICE. But they are not the military mass killing insurrectionists. Look at history and governments have killed tens of thousands of rebelling people. It's not what they consider ideal but it is a real option the US will exercise.
Ultimately both your rhetoric and philosophy alienates literally everyone else. You wont get the support of the larger population who could feasibly give supplies or even defectors from the military which almost every revolution has used to succeed. You are effectively cutting yourself off from needed infrastructure, thinking revolutionary fever and righteousness will win the day alone. It wont.
>>2707659>>mostly with local police and ICEDid you ever ask yourself the reason for that before yapping? What rock do you live under, Patrick star?
>>Ultimately both your rhetoric and philosophy alienates literally everyone else.
>>I'm preparing for the disappointment of the next failed revolution the western leftWho precisely does struggle against slave catchers alienate? The slave-catchers' families,friends, and cheerleaders? The aspiring slave catcher? You say you prepare yourself to witness a coming failure against the fascist reaction's militant force, rather than preparing to negate it? Curious. I believe we can locate your allegiances right then and there. In that sad, cramped interior you mistake for analysis, the left will be eradicated for the sin of offending white power, and you will observe from your remove like the coward you are, perhaps even deriving satisfaction from the spectacle. You are no Marxist. You are no revolutionary. You is a coward, a counter-revolutionary, a reactionary, and above all a settler whose allegiances remain tethered to racist class power dynamics. You sit in inaction, hoping the left fails and is destroyed for the sin of "alienating" racist white folk made uncomfortable by black liberation. He is a reactionary. Anyone here with a brain knows it.
Only a white power fed would be against the left resisting the white settler fascist reactionary.
Both juche poster and sabocat poster are correct.
However the more decolonial marxist strategy and tactics juche poster lays out is fit for the neocolonies of the world and those indigenous who should strive for independence, not exactly a diaspora even if they are racially stratified in terms of the labour market to then superexploit them and keep living conditions subpar, for us diaspora rather the solution is we either historically show the long migration and stay in European settler colonies and European nations since colonisation and industrialiasation, or we repatriate back to our homelands where we come from to live and work there while advocating our radical politics, but the fascists seem to want this.
Sabocat is correct very much, the path western communists should follow is a Marxist-Leninist strategy and tactics in order to gain power, and that the marxist-leninist way of thinking on revolutionary opportunities, on subjective conditions and objective conditions, on dual power and electoral base building for a more eventual violent revolution, is still very useful; that the western path seems like a more protracted one, that must first be peacefully built, not a militancy our of nowhere and not when necessary.
Juche points out many useful ideas, especially with things like how western working class can have a section, and a large one, who is compromised possibly as a labour aristocracy from the spoils of 21st century imperialism, or it even funding social democracy. However Sabocat also points out that the superprofits are more widely distributed among the billionaires, and a middle class is more and more being proleterianised.
I take issue with the idea of the internal colony, the mechanics of it relative to racially stratified labour which is superexploited and have subpar lives is true. But although the diaspora are of the neocolonised of the world and are treated as their brethern, I still don't believe even with long histories or living within European nations and settler colonies, neccessitates we have an carved out land for some "independence"; but yes we have a blood debt that needs to be paid, for example fighting both world wars in million death, therefore this is our home too.
Now the aborignees, the native Americans, the inuits and so forth, have a sense of historical right, some of the people with a large degree of blood right to their lands, which yes should be fought for and taken back.
Anyhow, a decolonial marxist strategy and tactcs is for the neocolonies and the global south, a marxist-leninist strategy is for the imperialists and global north.
>>2707714>Did you ever ask yourself the reason for thatBecause the current left is too weak for anything else. So they need to cling to the current liberal cause célèbre. Nothing wrong with that in principle but don't pretend the left is some strong power.
>You say you prepare yourself to witness a coming failure against the fascist reaction's militant force, rather than preparing to negate it?The Union fought the Confederacy over it's separation. It's wasn't random vigilantes who defeated the Confederacy and ended slavery. Winning is about building up some sort of military force and you are trying to get homeless guys with pipes to suicide charge police.
>the left will be eradicated for the sin of offending white powerFirst, white supremacy is subordinate to Capitalist supremacy. Second your solution to white supremacy is to respond with black supremacy. This does nothing but reinforce the race system. Instead of trying to build a coalition of workers of all races you insist on dividing them based on race and then putting your group in charge all while threatening to murder those who don't fall in line. You realize you are setting up a situation were white people listen to you and hear that you will murder them for being white. They will not support that for obvious reasons. And then you cry about their self preservation being racism.
>You are no Marxist. Ironic…
>a counter-revolutionary, a reactionary, and above all a settler Above all huh? This tells everyone your actual priorities…
>black liberationYou've been throwing this around fro a while now but what does that mean to you? To Marxists communism is liberation. But you seem to have your own very special definition you seem to dance around and never tell…
>hoping the left failsNo, but I can see the current writing on the wall and it does not look great.
>the left resisting the white settler fascist reactionary.A few minorities resisting isn't the same as winning. You have to turn a large percentage of the population to your side to have a chance of winning. China appealed to the entire peasantry. They didn't say only Achang peasants will be in charge.
>>2702290>The classical Marxist schema wherein the industrial proletariat forms the decisive vanguard of socialist revolution must be ruthlessly interrogated and superseded when confronted with the objective reality of advanced settler colonialism, parasitic racist imperialism, and the labor aristocracy that binds large swathes of the so-called "working class" to the reproduction of empire.Why? Western Europe and the USA have no real industrial working class. The industrial working class is in China and India.
>>2707777>So they need to cling to the current liberal cause célèbreThere's truth in this. One must distinguish between the NGO-rad libs, the electoral-left, and the actually existing autonomous movements of oppressed working class individuals who belong to the left. The former categories do indeed attach themselves to manageable issues, humanitarian frameworks at the direction of their NGOs owners (usually dnc backed philanthropists), they approach the horrors of capital as reformable cruelties. It's like a cycle, suddenly left issues become hot when the democrats lose power. They support the border / policing to remain as institution but in appearance they may continue their advocacy against its excesses. But the latter, the undocumented organizers, the abolitionists, the recon watch-dogs, the mutual aid networks all operate upon a different logic entirely. Their focus upon immigration is not substitution for revolutionary strength but recognition of where the imperial core extracts most nakedly. The border is where the settler state performs its demographic management, where the Third World proletariat encounters the First World directly, where the contradiction between labor's mobility and capital's restrictions becomes most explosive. The act of deciding to organize here is not avoidance of the question of production but to locate its global articulation in relation to the first world colonial powers.
>>It's wasn't random vigilantes who defeated the Confederacy and ended slavery. The civil war did not happen in a vacuum. To frame the Civil War as the singular moment of anti-slavery victory is to adopt the state's own narrative of legitimate violence, whereby conflict becomes "real" only when formal armies clash. This erases the protracted people's war waged by abolitionists and the enslaved, the skirmishes that bled across decades, the armed vigilance committees that met slave-catchers with gunfire. The Union did not initiate the conflict over slavery; it eventually intervened in a struggle already underway. The "random vigilantes" of your dismissive characterization were, in fact, in history, the organized militant base without which discussions of emancipation would not have been possible.
>>Winning is about building up some sort of military force and you are trying to get homeless guys with pipes to suicide charge police. The fuck are you talking about? So you're making scenarios up in your head, then responding to it? Yall keep doiing it.
>>You've been throwing this around fro a while now but what does that mean to you? To Marxists communism is liberationA lot of what you're typing shows you haven't read through the thread, or peeped any of the books in said thread. Black liberation is not black supremacy, that's what cops and ignorant white folk think. You're asking what black liberation means, but you don't even seem to see blacks as more inherently oppressed than the white settler. You talk of communism, while ignoring discussions of land and freedom. Do you think white people are equally as deprived of wealth accumulation and land than white amerikkka? Do you think slavery was a singular event, that has nothing to do with capitalism? Do you think the racist structures that built amerikkka disappeared, or became weakened? You my friend, need a history lesson, not an image board discussion.
Is this the logic the original decolonize lapland guy went through
>>2707714>>2707755>>2707777>>2707858I love eating jewish feces and wear diapers btw, felt you all should know that
>>2707858>The civil war did not happen in a vacuumSources listed below; This is only some of the activity predating America's OFFICIAL civil war -
>>David Walker’s Appeal (1829) Free Black abolitionist published "Appeal to the Coloured Citizens of the World," urging resistance and condemning slavery; widely circulated despite bans.
>>Lewis and Harriet Hayden (1840s–1850s, Boston) Escaped couple ran a safe house/clothing store; stored gunpowder to resist capture; aided famous escapes (e.g., Shadrach Minkins, Anthony Burns) and funded John Brown.https://www.zinnedproject.org/materials/black-abolitionists
>>William Still (1850s, Philadelphia) Black abolitionist with Vigilance Committee; documented escapes in his book "The Underground Railroad"; funded rescues and sheltered hundreds.https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/626896/underground-railroad-conductors-and-station-masters
>>John P. Parker (1840s–1850s, Ohio): Formerly enslaved conductor; made repeated risky trips across the Ohio River to rescue people from Kentucky plantations.https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/626896/underground-railroad-conductors-and-station-masters
>>The Pearl Escape (1848, Washington, D.C.) Largest recorded group escape attempt (77 people) aided by white abolitionists like Gerrit Smith and free Black Paul Jennings, Many were recaptured, but it drew national attention.https://www.zinnedproject.org/news/tdih/the-escape-on-the-pearl-schooner/
>>David Ruggles and Other Black Vigilance Committees (1830s–1840s, New York/Philadelphia) Free Black activists like Ruggles ran safe houses, published anti-slavery works, and organized rescues in Northern cities.
>>The Christiana Resistance (1851) When slave catcher Edward Gorsuch came to reclaim four fugitives in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, William Parker and the Black Self-Protection Society mobilized more than 80 armed Black men and women. Gorsuch was killed, his son wounded. The Black women reportedly "hacked and cut" the elder Gorsuch after he was shot. All 41 indictees, 36 Black, 5 white were acquitted by an all-white jury.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christiana_Riot
>>The German Coast Uprising (1811) The largest slave revolt in US history. 200-500 enslaved people armed themselves and marched toward New Orleans, burning plantations. Brutally suppressed, dozens killed in battle, heads placed on pikes as warning. Suppressed in historical memory for over a century.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1811_German_Coast_uprising
>>The Sack of Lawrence (1856) pro slavery "Border Ruffians" from Missouri burned abolitionist newspaper offices and hotels. Not random, organized paramilitary attack.
>>2707914Civil war was colonized-on-colonized violence btw
>>2707858> state's own narrative of legitimate violence, whereby conflict becomes "real" only when formal armies clash.My point isn't about legitimacy but the use or threat of overwhelming violence that actually changes the social order. Such overwhelming violence happens with organized military force to back it with a very few exceptions. The US would never just let capitalist social order just change with vague unease so there needs to be an actual possibility of the workers being able to fight which means organized military force with necessary mass support.
>This erases the protracted people's war waged by abolitionists and the enslaved, the skirmishes that bled across decades,Ok but my point is those are all build ups didn't directly end slavery. Those build ups were used to turn the Union population against slavery. That mass build up of support among white people is what elected Lincoln and scared the South into leaving. Imagine insisting the Union had to be lead by black people first before fighting against slavery.
When it comes to communist revolution we need more than just hope enough blind clashes will result in change one day. Marxist need to plan an outreach that builds support with the mass of the US population not just count on currently disaffected minorities while unnecessarily alienating the majority
>The fuck are you talking about?When you say the homeless confront the state what exactly do they confront the state with? Here you are talking about PPW but just assuming weapons supplies will always be plentiful.Eventually homeless people run out of bullet and then what will they confront the state with?
>You're asking what black liberation means, Yes, so why can't you just answer?
>You talk of communism, while ignoring discussions of land and freedom.wtf communism gives everyone both.
>Do you think white people are equally as deprived of wealth accumulation and land than white amerikkka? Communism equalizes such wealth inequality. So it we reach socialism and it doesn't fucking matter.
>Do you think the racist structures that built amerikkka disappeared, or became weakened? They did became weakened. Black billionaires prove it is weaker than ever before. Sure it's not gone, never said it was. What I did say was to eliminate it completely you have to reach socialism. To do that you have to reaching out to workers as workers to create a unity amongst them. Why insist on making race the central issue?
>leftists uncritically accept third world nationalists into the movement
>Leftism devolves into retarded third worlders constantly fighting each other and pushing white people away from leftism
Good job leftoids, keep digging that grave.
>>2708003>>Good job leftoids, keep digging that graveHOW DARE YOU UPSET WHITE PEOPLE, YOU HAVE DUG YOUR GRAVE NOW!!
You sound the exact same as an Amerikkkan fascist. In fact what mainly drives them into a stance of antipathy towards leftist movements, is also what disgusts you about the modern left. You share that reasoning of viewing the left as discredited by their stances on race, colonialism and amerikkkan borders. People calling themselves a leftist, while holding these fascist tendencies will not absolve them from consequence when our day comes. Maga-communism is dumb, no we should not make space for racism and American nationalism to capture "large swaths" of the working class. AHAHAHAHAHA
>>2707996>Blacks must be in charge!>Oh how could those meanie whites accuse me being of black supremacist?>>2708032Whites are the majority of Americans, including white Latinos makes them a supermajority. Alienating them pointlessly dooms your revolution.
>>2708085So, when a majority of white Americans support the police, that means communists should not side with black folk against the police? If a good chunk of low income workers whom are white are PRO ICE, should leftists not resist ICE? What if you're in a state where most of the working class is anti-union, do you tone your union speak down? What if you live in an area where most of the working class are transphobic/homphobic and there 300 trans and gay people, do you abandon them to be "more effective" in the town of 10k? What if most of the american working class don't believe in decrying the military, flag burning, or explicit anti-war militancy? Then do you tone it down, and integrate the celebration of american militarism into your leftism? Sounds like the politics of cowards, sheep, not lion. Just continuously base the praxis, and langauge upon what the mainstream views as acceptable; yup that will work alright, but not as revolutionary praxis, more so as COIN against revolutionary praxis. Maga communism is retarded. Anyone who believes that the class struggle needs to neuter itself in order to gain more influence, needs to jump off a high bridge.
>Blacks must be in charge!>Oh how could those meanie whites accuse me being of black supremacist?You think I'm saying BLACK LEADER RULE WHITE MAN. Go fucking read the thread or don't even speak you bitch ass mark
>>2708116>when a majority of white Americans support the policeMajority of blacks vote democrat and support capitalism. Does that mean communists rail against blacks for being black? No, they criticize the belief and the individual person's reasoning, not the race of the person who holds the belief.
>Anyone who believes that the class struggle needs to neuter itself in order to gain more influenceThere is a difference between attacking people based on race and compromising your ideals.
>Go fucking read the thread or don't even speak you bitch ass mark.Ok Mr Bodies and Spaces, you really like to hide behind a lot of academese while attacking people for being fascist settlers if they don't agree immediately. That really doesn't help communicate what you are saying
>>2708118See
>>2704539
>>Majority of blacks vote democrat and support capitalism. Does that mean communists rail against blacks for being black?I'm sorry but this isn't making sense to me. You require more studying on Marxist theory in relation to the structure of race in American's colonial capitalism. BLACK PEOPLE DID NOT COLONIZE THE AMERICAS AND BUILD A COLONIAL STRUCTURE OF BLACK SUPREMACY THROUGH A NEW CAPITALIST WORLD, ON THE BACKS OF NON-BLACK LABOR. There is no "black supremacist" structure and reactionary force to attack in relation to the class struggle. So this comparison you give cannot be flipped in vice versa as an example.
just read books about this
>>There is a difference between attacking people based on raceThis response again stems from individualist liberal perception on race and colonialism; it lacks a material analysis on these things. again, read please.
https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/678761/decolonial-marxism-by-walter-rodney/https://www.worldofbooks.com/products/border-as-method-or-the-multiplication-of-labor-book-sandro-mezzadra-9780822355038https://www.jstor.org/stable/jj.12250639https://ouleft.org/wp-content/uploads/Allen-The-Invention-of-the-White-Race-vol-1.pdfhttps://www.jstor.org/stable/10.5149/9781469619491_williamsThese aren't all full books. The most important thing is to find Allens The invention of The White Race, read the entire series, THEN read Slavery & Capitalism by Williams.
>>2708116You know black people aren't retarded faggots like your are and also want the police and law and order to exist
>>2708163>>2708116>>2708072>>2708072>>2707996Sorry for seeming so mean, I wet my diapers and my Jewish master hasn't changed them yet
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