At no point when the bourgeois and their institutions are strong have the proletariat ever been able to even threaten them let alone overthrow the government in a revolution. This only happens in colonial and feudal backwaters, what this means is Marx and every other revolutionary socialist is wrong about the proletariat being the revolutionary subject, or there even being a revolutionary subject at all.
Oh and capitalism isn’t progressive, the environmental wreckage it has wrought with over exploitation makes it and industrial society as a whole an evolutionary dead end. If the species is to survive it needs feudalism and slavery.
Wholly incorrect.
>If the species is to survive it needs feudalism and slavery.
kill yourself reactoid socialite
>>2728795Proles cannot feed themselves if they get fired and there’s always scabs, only peasants have the means to reproduce themselves while revolting
>>2728801Socialism isn’t being born from capitalism
>>2728765Capitalism is a relatively new economic system Marx had the privilige to see rising first hand. This means proletarian class struggle is relatively young too as this class didnt exist before industrial revolution.
>>2728807It existed under roman slavery in its urban centers and it was a parasitic class at the time. Based on falling birthrates in industrialized countries, you could say it’s parasitic now even if it generates value because it fundamentally cannot reproduce itself, it has to keep expanding through the breakup of peasants and “liberating” women from the home. What happens when there’s no more peasants? The proles will just die, they won’t revolt, even if we got communism climate change means it won’t last in an industrialized form for more than five years.
in the recorded history of class struggle, it is conflict between elites which moves history, not the masses.
>>2728865Yeah, decolonization happened at the behest of elites in colonized nations, not their peasants and workers who were merely canon fodder
>>2728805Of course it is because history is continuous and has no gaps. What a retarded statement. You are not just an idealist, you are also an empiricist. Going around saying yes-yes, and saying no-no.
>>2728868You ever heard of Haiti before?
>>2728870Proletarian associations and organizations have only gotten weaker with the development of capitalism, not stronger, all the technological developments keep proles surveilled and with enough dopamine hits to ensure they’ll always go back to work
>>2728871I’ve actually been to Haiti, awful, ugly country but a beautiful people
>>2728868not sure if youre being sarcastic, but europe literally volunteered to deconstruct their empires after ww2. it wasnt a mass uprising, it was an executive decision.
>>2728890Portuguese soldiers had to get their teeth repeatedly kicked in by 14 year olds under Amilcar Cabral before doing the coup
>>2728895resistance isnt revolution
>>2728898If you don’t have the capacity to resist, you certainly don’t have the capacity to revolt, proles don’t even have the first even when they have access to firearms like in the US or Switzerland
>>2728903you clearly lack understanding
if europe wanted to retain their colonies, they would have. mass resistance means nothing in reality.
>>2728914They still do, google ECOWAS and CFA franc
>>2729142Nobody likes when choices are made for them in anything.
>>2729142Not to mention the worst thing a prole can do is have a kid, they’re purely an albatross on your neck and you created more competition and thus lowered your own wages. It’s in the class interest of proles for there to be as few of them as possible.
>>2729561In a bourgeois sense sure.
>>2728765The problem with this way of thinking is its vulgar materialism and it also has several problems with it, revolutions in third world backwaters will be isolated and easily encircled by capital. The next revolution absolutely has to be in the US, or at the very least western europe, china, or india. Any country large and powerful enough that it cant be encircled by capital and it can help export the revolution
>>2732489Bro communism isn’t in the interests of workers and imperialism provides them with more resources than they otherwise would have under socialism, in the first world socialism is austerity
>>2732538third worldist nonsense. This mightve been true only in the 50s-60s when the post war surplus actually existed and social democracy functioned as a compromise. but now first world workers deal with extremely high housing costs, suppressed wages and precarious work.
>>2732544And all fist world worker’s politics is trying to reestablish that 50s and 60s status quo
>>2732544Also it’s not third worldist because third world proletarians parasitize off the peasantry and remnants of primitive communism
>>2728803If industrial workers stop production in energy, chemicals, machinery, logistics, and transport, large-scale agriculture collapses within a short time. Modern farms operate on continuous input flows. Fertilizer cycles, diesel supply, parts replacement, and transport are constant requirements. This interdependence is the material basis of proletarian structural power.Agriculture in advanced capitalism is also highly specialized and produces mainly commodities for market exchange, not subsistence. Farmers sell crops to purchase fuel, equipment, seed, consumer goods, and debt servicing. Without functioning markets and industrial supply chains, they cannot reproduce production at scale.
>>2732554and that is structurally impossible to achieve, the more that first world workers run against this the more radicalized they become
>>2732561The peasentry is shrinking increasingly in the third world and they are less and less relevant
>>2732575That’s why they’ll never revolt, proles suffer from the supply chain collapses of their own insurgency way faster than capitalists
>>2732585The peasantry is shrinking and once its gone the proles will die in two to three generations because they cannot reproduce at replacement level. We need a return to slavery.
>>2732591shrinking prole birthrates become an existential threat to capitalism long before extinction actually happens
>>2732596Proles are just as married to the system as the bourgeois are, when it dies, so will they, proles are completely incapable of resistance, revolution, or governance
>>2732599Every act of modern militant class-struggle in the USA is more likely to be carried out by, and valuable to the lumpenproletariat or labor reserves. The working-classes usually exclaim "but they attack our own things, the functions of their own society!" when this happens. Most people completely are ok with the way things are, globally, and those who fight against it are seen as "extremes on the outskirts".
>>2732699The lumpens have no leverage and are mercenary, capitalism is completely invulnerable to anything except nuclear weapons or climate collapse
>>2728765there's a better thread addressing these contradictions in further detail and without the doomerism
>>2686845 >>2732705You are also not fully correct, because the largest prison strike in history occurred nation-wide and an anarchist / marxist group of individuals within the IWW started a group called IWOC (incarcerated workers organizing committee). It was the biggest prison strike in history, and it occurred both in 2016, and 2018 I believe. The language was way more explicit in it's anti-capitalist theory than any recent strike in the USA, and there were even prison riots behind the work stoppages.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarcerated_Workers_Organizing_Committeehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_U.S._prison_strike >>2732787I remember reading about that in Kevin Rashid Johnson’s blog, he also joined DSA from prison, not sure how that all went
>>2732587> proles suffer from the supply chain collapses of their own insurgency way faster than capitalistsok. finally a strong thesis from you. develop it. write a book about it.
>>2734361It’s called observing reality, most Americans, who are labor aristocrats, do not have $400 left over for any kind of emergency
>colonial and feudal backwaters
This sentence also forget all of those where in a total breakdown of their respective governments and a civil war before the Communists even started fighting
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