/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>2823591
Tbh there isn't any real distinction between "indigeneity" and any other form of racial/national oppression. In practical terms, referring to a group as "Indigenous" with a capital I is just a way to say that they are an oppressed nationality that arrived at this position via colonialism. At most you could argue that there is some unique form of exploitation involved like land dispossession, but even that can take place in other contexts like when European Jews would have their property confiscated or were banned from owning land. I think it's a pretty useless category from a Marxist perspective.

>>2823900
>before a group becomes indigenous?
never happens,Landback for the celts now

>>2823951
You wish colonizer. As the only extant pre-Indo-European people in Europe, the Basques are entitled to the whole continent.

Why do americans call socialists "liberals"?

>>2823951
Consistency, I like thay.
>>2823939
> I think it's a pretty useless category from a Marxist perspective.
Fair enough. I suppose I will still label the Boers as indigenous in relation to the british if I need to piss someome off.

>>2823969
They mix progressives with liberalism. Its newspeak that should be called out at every chance.

>>2824006
Well strictly speaking I don't think that would apply outside of the context if the Boer Wars. After the second one the Afrikaaners were pretty quickly integrated alongside the British as a privileged nationality. You certainly can't call them an oppressed nation.

>>2824006
>I suppose I will still label the Boers as indigenous in relation to the british if I need to piss someome off.
well as we know, they are indigenous

What is the genuine point in being a communist if your middle class while being unemployed and/or a generally privileged person if communism is entirely about being working or lower class, my dad is the boss of a doctors practice and works only in contact with government, will I just abandon my views when I’m rich enough?

>>2824895
There is no such thing as the middle class, this is bourgeois nonsense. There are only the working class, the owning class, and in less industrialized nations a class of peasants. If you trade your labor for a wage, and without that employment you would become homeless or otherwise destitute, then you're working class. If you derive your income instead from stocks, a business, or from rent payments then you're part of the owning class.

>>2824911
Are you still working class, if you already lost your job and are homeless?

>>2824895
You can support socialism because it's morally right and not just 'muh self interest' etc

Im broke and i need money, my grandparents have money, well some, but boomers live really long and i dont think they will pay off my student loan debt.

What do i do, its really hard getting a job no body will hire me

>>2824924
Yes, you are. You only become a lumpenprole if you start mugging people or loansharking or otherwise resort to petty crime to get by.

>>2824911
In fact better question, petite bourgeoisie/bourgeoisie test
>my dad particularly owns his doctors practice and works in contract with the government as previously stated,he is the boss of the practice and has other people work for him, although he also does his own work. I’m not actually sure how his job really works or how much he owns
>my aunt and uncle both are in finance, as well as my dad, don’t really know how it works but I think it’s just bettings and investments

That’s really it, does my family even matter at this point?

>>2824911
>There is no such thing as the middle class

Read this.

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1863/theories-surplus-value/ch04.htm

>>2825042
Actually I meant read this:

https://ravenwood42.home.blog/2021/01/21/marxs-conception-of-the-middle-classes-the-petty-bourgeoisie-and-the-peasantry/

But that's good too.

>>2824947
How morally bankrupt and coldly elitist was it for Marx and Engels to dismiss the "lumpenproletariat" - the most wretched, desperate, and brutally crushed victims of capitalism - as nothing more than a degenerate, passive, rotting underclass unfit for revolution, when history repeatedly shows these exact marginalized groups were often far more radical, violent, and revolutionary than the supposedly pure, disciplined industrial proletariat they fetishized?

How do I convince my stalinoid friends that trotskyism is the best ideology?

>>2745331
What do people use to make those long "elder scroll" pix??

>>2832339
make a 1 page document with pictures and text in libreoffice writer, edit the page size to be really long and skinny to fit everything on 1 page, and export it as a PDF. there are websites to convert PDFs to images, etc.

>>2825229
I think the lumprenproletariat and the asiatic mode of production are among the weakest concepts from marx and engels.

>>2825229
>when history repeatedly shows these exact marginalized groups were often far more radical, violent, and revolutionary
violent sure, radical and revolutionary no, in fact historically lumpen were overwhelmingly hired as fascist thugs enforcer, police informant and strike breakers, proving the marxist analysis right

>>2832983
>top uses bottom to oppress middle
doesn't this framing risk reinventing liberalism by pitting the proletariat and petty bourgeoisie as allies against the lumpen criminals and the bourgeois overlords. This is the Berniecrat way of looking at things.

Reform, Civil War, Revolution

In the case of slavery, we see that in the British Empire, it was abolished through reform. They passed the act to abolish it in 1833.

In the case of America it was abolished through Civil War.

In the case of Haiti we have revolution. The slaves overthrew their masters.

Is revolution always inevitable, or is it only what happens when all other options fail?

If other options succeed, is that undesirable for communism, since communists want these changes to happen through revolution?

I used to think the communist theory was that revolution was necessary because reform never works, but the British never rolled back the abolition act of 1833. Even though that's a different scenario than the abolition of wage labor, it is an important case study.

If the same problem can be tackled in different ways, and history shows that through evidence, then why cling to the thesis that it can only happen one way?

In history we also see the transition from the slave mode of production (not to be confused with colonial chattels slavery) disappeared slowly. Gradually. Without clear acts of emancipation. Both free farmers and former slaves gradually became serfs. Slavery faded into feudalism gradually.

Serfdom ended in England organically and without a clear act of abolition hundreds of years before it ended in Russia with a clear act of abolition.

So isn't it a bit teleological to insist that the capitalist mode of production must end in a specific way, i.e. through reform, through revolution, or through civil war, rather than a mixture of multiple ways? Especially in an age where nationalist nuclear armed sovereignty is asserted against ideal globalizing trends, and no international proletarian revolution seems imminent, even 143 years after Marx's death?

if VOOTING doesn't work… how come 1 vote saved the world?

>>2833165
my sub-
-marine
it never lost control
you're face
to face
with the vote that saved the world
catchy riff

>>2836019 (me)
I WAS CLOSE! @ 10-06-26 20:57:34 we got Persona B >>2836199 !
2.5h later!
Speculation as to why it was delayed:
· the amount of replies per hour "Persona A" posting got
· the content of the replies, requiring a continuous response as A before switching
· the agents are multiple and so one had simply not "clocked in" yet
· a combo of the above

Both Personas now active during:
· yankee workday,
· working hours,
· potentially going into evening/night. Let's see.
· mods not doing shit, not communicating, allegedly not having been owned(?) spill some tea if you know something I don't at this point. remember to not bump the reply.

>>2836357 (me)
Not a single chatgpt persona A v B routine in sight right now on sfw overboard view and that is now after the period 'US midnight'->early US working hours -> right around US lunch-time.

how based was pre-roman england

>>2836233

haha oh lord youre crazy so what now federal agents are mocking juche posters with a.i to make them look bad? they do that themselves. FEDERAL AGENT PERSONA 1… FEDERAL AGENT. Not much acting involved! you are an absolutely cracked conspiracy theorist.

>>2836233

prove that feds are posting during work hours are stfu. just making bs up at this point. youre probably one of the trolls trying to draw more attention to the troll. bury it already losers

>>2838181

So what are the feds doing here and what benefit do they have in following some loser basement dwelling LARPING juche posters and creating fake conversations between them on one of the most inactive websites in human history? why would feds do any of this and why would they care about juche? its just leftists mememing and larping, and right wing trolls biting bait, not some organized conspiracy lmfao

>>2838172
wtf do you mean by based you mongoloid retard stop speaking like that

>>2836979
1 No sign of persona A or B posting were ongoing between US midnight, early day, or pre-lunch, again.
2 At exactly 12-06-26 18:14:17 today, we see a "Persona C" post: >>2838105
There they create and dialog-tree a blatantly synthetic thread, following the noted narrow set of topics. "Persona C" can be described as "reformist looking for points of entry into US clandestine networks, with a focus on anarcho-insurrectionists, jucheists and Maoists".
It is again directly after US lunchtime, but closer to matching central / eastern time post-lunch workday scheduling than vs west coast.

I'm estimating:
DC, NY or Langley.
Office-milieu, considering it follows a strict after-lunch schedule.
Motive: to, via 'social Ops' (what would accurate term be?) data extraction from potentially young/naive communists on this website to get them to leak info about clandestine / informal / affinity-group type US communist and anarchist collectives.

Is the cure to male loneliness retaking constantinople?

How do you counter philosophical pessimism of the likes of Schopenhauer, Cioran, Mainlander, etc from a Marxist perspective?
What can you do if someone says "trying to improve things is pointless because life is mostly pain, suffering, misery, and even a successful revolution can only reduce these factors, and not enough to make the world worth living in"?

Why is the westoid Left so absolutely obsessed with trans stuff. Seriously, it's amazing, it is quite apparent that it is the ACTUAL red line for many Leftoids. Many of them would rather befriend a liberal who supports strike breaking and bombing overseas that anyone clearly of the Left who isn't 100% onboard with transgender ideology. For many of these people being aggressively pro-trans is literally more important than a commitment to the historic aims of Socialism - the political power of the organised working class and the overthrow of capitalism. It's nuts.

>inb4 "oh but erm we have to liberate all oppressed peoples and trans 'folx' are going through a LITERAL GENOCIDE RN" - do you have any fucking shame, no

>>2841001
There's already another thread up where you can cry about "waaahh why don't other leftists like me when I hate minorities"
It's indicative of your broader mindset, which is that you don't support liberation, equality, solidarity for all but only for a certain subsection of the proletariat that looks like yourself.
Social reactionaries should've been purged from the left far earlier.

>>2841001
>Many of them would rather befriend a liberal who supports strike breaking and bombing overseas that anyone clearly of the Left who isn't 100% onboard with transgender ideology.
I support the Iranian workers burning mosques and killing moral police. Woudl you befriend me, as I am a 100% communist?

How to convince my friend that the NSDAP wasn't left wing?

is civilization just a friendly mask for a zero sum psychopathic struggle for power or is it possible to have a human society without exploitation and cruelty

>>2841190
the NSDAP said marxism is the guardian angel of capitalism. then we look back at engels and he said

<[…]anti-Semitism is merely the reaction of declining medieval social strata against a modern society consisting essentially of capitalists and wage-laborers, so that all it serves are reactionary ends under a purportedly socialist cloak; it is a degenerate form of feudal socialism and we can have nothing to do with that. The very fact of its existence in a region is proof that there is not yet enough capital there. Capital and wage-labor are today indivisible. The stronger capital and hence the wage-earning class becomes, the closer will be the demise of capitalist domination. So what I would wish for us Germans, amongst whom I also count the Viennese, is that the capitalist economy should develop at a truly spanking pace rather than slowly decline into stagnation.

• Friedrich Engels, On Anti-Semitism, 1890
  
  

so the NSDAP was probably reacting to the perception that both bourgeois liberals and marxists seemed, from their perspective to collaborate to "jew" everyone. But I think Engels is right. the foundation of the NSDAP was not "leftism" even in the sense of the "left wing of capital." They were a reaction against "jewish meddling" which was "eroding tradition." They merely used socialism to cloak this fundamentally reactionary philosophy.

however after they took power, they worekd closely with industrialists, and even enabled zionist migration by deporting jews to palestine. the term "privatization" was also coined to describe the nazi economy. So I think that is telling.

>>2842933
You can have tribes of around 100 people before coerced labour is required to organise production. It is impossible to have any complex society without implicit and explicit violence.

>>2842945
>retvrn to hunter gatherer
where did the neanderthals go?

>>2841190
They were. They weren't exactly turbo left wing like Strasser, but fundamentally lefty. The thing is, their definition of left wing was different than ours. For them, marxism wasn't real socialism. They blamed marx for stealing socialism and adding no-property, no-individualism and internationalism to it. Basically the exact things that they fought the jews were pushing. It was a very special mixture of antisemitism based on anticapitalism, but with support for individual growth and support for companies, if they were vital for the volksgemeinschaft.
Now look at real right wingers. What are they exactly? Libertarians. The don't want any state, any rules nor solidarity in any form, national or international. The end game of right wing would be anarcho capitalism. We may not like it, but National Socialists were a very special form of nationalist lefties making experiments.