Class is not the primary contradiction.
1: Climate change
Why? Existential threat to all of humanity. On a strict time limit.
2: Imperialism
Why? Countries can't have their own 1917 (Socialist Revolution) until they have their own 1776 (Bourgeois sovereignty).
3: Class struggle
4: idpol/disabled struggles (basically just a mop-up after global socialism is achieved)
>>2759242>1: Climate change>Why? Existential threat to all of humanity. On a strict time limit.Okay genius, and what exactly is climate change being fuelled by?
>>2759246>hat exactly is climate change being fuelled by?not
merely capitalism, but the development of productive forces under
any mode of production beyond the environmental sustainability of those productive forces by the biosphere.
>>2759246Colonialism of indigenous peoples.
>>2759246Not enough bison.
>>2759254you are describing a more primitive contradiction between society and nature. class is the primary contradiction within society dictating how it relates to nature. that is why the current specific episode of extreme climate change we are living through is primarily the result of the specific class society which produced it, namely bourgeois society. imperialism can be described in similar terms, but it can by no means be naturalized in the way climate can, as it is purely a result of class society.
>>2759282hunter gathering as a mode of production can't sustain billions of people concurrently without some level of small scale industrial supplementation.
>>2759276even if class society were abolished, socialism/communism is premised on having EVEN GREATER productive forces than capitalism. Part of the entire critique of political economy is that capitalism has crises of falling rates of profit from productive forces making commodities too cheap. To solve this capitalists kill workers and destroy productive forces in imperialist wars. But in a society without classes or profit, the falling rate of profit would no longer be a leash on the productive forces, the productive forces would be free to multiply
far beyond what could be sustained by Earth without incurring mass extinction, habitat collapse, extreme temperatures, extreme weather events, etc. Hence the statement that
> the development of productive forces under any mode of production beyond the environmental sustainabilityis the chief problem.
>>2759254>not merely capitalism, but the development of productive forces under any mode of production beyond the environmental sustainability of those productive forces by the biosphere.Agriculture was an response when hunting and gathering became unsustainable to environment to support the population within the limits set by the hunter gatherer mode of production. Humans differ from other animals that no other creature actively creates it's own environment like humans do. It's not any mode of production beyond environmental sustainability, but merely liberal capitalism that has become unsustainable to nature and human society. If you think merely terms of "nature" then even preindustrial agriculture was unsustainable mode of production.
Fuck libs, fuck degrowth fags, fuck "green" ideology.
>>2759312Hunter-gatherer societies were also unsustainable. Human migration was accompanied by extinction of many species and in many cases even ecosystem collapse, like in Australia. Most hunter-gatherer populations went to a lower quality of life after megafauna went extinct.
>>2759312>no other creature actively creates it's own environment like humans dobeavers build dams. birds build nests. many creatures make their own environment, humans just do it in a highly abstracted, long-term-planned, and organized way.
>Fuck libs, fuck degrowth fags, fuck "green" ideology.see
>>2759284
<even if class society were abolished, socialism/communism is premised on having EVEN GREATER productive forces than capitalism. Part of the entire critique of political economy is that capitalism has crises of falling rates of profit from productive forces making commodities too cheap. To solve this capitalists kill workers and destroy productive forces in imperialist wars. But in a society without classes or profit, the falling rate of profit would no longer be a leash on the productive forces, the productive forces would be free to multiply far beyond what could be sustained by Earth without incurring mass extinction, habitat collapse, extreme temperatures, extreme weather events, etc. Hence the statement that the development of productive forces under any mode of production beyond the environmental sustainability is the chief problem.you are part of the problem because you imagine that infinite expansion of productive forces is not limited by environmental sustainability. You cry "green fags!!!! libs!!!!" as a mask for your lack of real idea of how to fix this sooner rather than later. Or maybe you know it's a problem and you don't care because you think you'll be dead and it'll be the future peoples' problem to deal with. idk.
Environmentalists became irrelevant the moment the cold war demanded militarism. And all their billionaire philantropy slush funds, for activism, dried up. Now you can be a schizo shouting into the void which nobody ever listens to, or you can become a think tank creature like Amnesty or GreenPeace.
The other kind, will eventually have to merge with labor advocacy and drop liberalism and become political.
Either way, Greta's old chums are dead in the water now.
>>2759323I shove porkies into a mass grave, then drag and mass execute the greefag tree hugging libs at the edge of the same pit. I will force organic growers to use fertilizers and GMO crops. I will smash the beaver dams and build, not hydroelectric power, but nuclear power stations their their place. World hunger will be solved. Energy production will be 10000x fold from what it's now. Humanity will end up being 100 billion and span the solar system.
>>2759347>i have infinite resources and can do whatever i want with no repercussionsmagical thinking
>>2759242Please kill yourself you stupid liberal hippie, I am being 100% serious, your life has zero purpose.
Degrowth fags: the solution isn't in technology, we must reduce third world populations.
China: develops cheap sustainable energy production and storage
Degrowth fags: why are you oversupplying the green energy production market?
>>2759284>But in a society without classes or profit, the falling rate of profit would no longer be a leash on the productive forces, the productive forces would be free to multiply far beyond what could be sustained by EarthWhy would a society without the need for profit off labour need to multiply the production of goods and services beyond what could be sustained by Earth?
Moron
>>2759350>Achually universe doesn't have infinite energy and resources.For any human civilization relevant timescale it does, it's just a matter of progressing enough to getting accesses to it all. Humanity only loses and gets it "repercussions" shoved into it's face if it refuses to play the game. Humanity literally progressed itself out of extinction level events multiple times through the advance of productive forces. Your idea of humanity living in a "finite resource box" set by mother earth, only exists it your lib-pilled brain that assumes amerimutt lead post-soviet financial capitalism as the past, present and eternity. Now stfu.
>>2759242>bourgeois sovereignty >anti-imperialismDo you think capitalism is a national phenomenon? If not, think for a second about its implications for national sovereignty
>>2759352stop falling for rightoid memes.
- germany isn't constructing any new coal plants
- the only tokenistic reason that coal generation (temporarily) increased is because gas prices increased following the russia-ukraine war, so some idled coal plants were brought back online. most are now shut down again.
- germany is still committed to phase out all coal plants by 2038
- in 2025, solar generation overtook coal generation, and coal generation is at its lowest level in decades. (contra what pro-nuclear shills say.) wind-power is germany's single largest energy source.
- looking outside europe to somewhere like pakistan, you can watch in real time as solar power skyrockets because - unlike in somewhere like germany where you have to an adapt an existing grid and get into tedious politicking - in a developing country, solar is now so dirt cheap that people are just buying their own panels and installing them without relying on central authority. solar is now pakistan's single largest electricity source!
one can, obviously, credit china for manufacturing all the cheap panels, but one should also be fair and credit the market mechanism for driving adoption elsewhere. pakistan isn't buying solar because it's non-polluting or because they're best pals with china, they're doing it because it's cheap! the area where the west has blundered is to make it expensive and tedious to bolt solar panels to your own home!
plus opaque electricity pricing schemes and bizarre cross-subsidies. >>2759362Not super familiar with what is being said in the degrowth movement right now but third world genocide sounds more collapsologist (or billionaire) talk, afaik the degrowthers are more focused on the first world giving up treats as that's where the economy is big, they're still idealists blindsided by imperialism though
>>2759415total wind death. nvclear is the future. in 2050 under global chynese aes, each citizen gets a nuke
>>2759242Class is the primary contradiction.
BUT
It must be intended in a wider way than how Marx originally intended it.
Class is a group of people which share a common trait and therefore have a common interest.
Bourgeoisie is a class…so are Men, Asians, Muslims, or Liberals.
Relations to the means of production are not the only cause of class distinction. Every human distinction can be a cause of class distinction.
Marx's greatest error was thinking sovrastructure is simply a reflex of structure, when in reality both can influence each other.
TLDR: Frankfurt school and Gramsci were right
>>2759283Yeah a history of famines shows this well enough, we exploded as a population once we solved famines.
Hunter gatherers work fine and sustainably in tribal communities free of interference as is evidenced by the parallel continued survival of a few tribes like this to the modern age.
>>2759460the whole problem is that people apply this false dichotomy that either we have good things and die, or have terrible things and save the planet or some shit, we can save earth without giving up (the vast majority of) luxuries, we just have to do things in a different way
>>2759456>so are Men, Asians, Muslims, or Liberals.
>Relations to the means of production are not the only cause of class distinctionYou are retarded.
>>2759415>one can, obviously, credit china for manufacturing all the cheap panelsI will. Westoids hate that green tech is cheap and that third world countries can now adopt it.
https://www.dw.com/en/from-solar-to-evs-how-china-is-overproducing-green-tech/a-68782157There would be no solar boom in Pakistan if green Germany had it their way. The point of western environmentalism is to use talk of the environment as a tool to further kick the rest of the world while it's down and extract superprofits. Now that it's clear this isn't working, western media went back to their natural state of warmongering.
contradiction.
>1: Climate change
<Tied to class
>2: Imperialism
<Tied to class
>3: Class struggle
<Tied to class
>4: idpol/disabled struggles (basically just a mop-up after global socialism is achieved)
<Tied to class
>>2759242Looking at things in terms of contradictions is dialectical materialist woo. There are no primary contradictions, not class not anything else. However, the environmental crisis is the major existential crisis to all life. The primary problem is the problem of technology produced by industrial capitalism which is destroying biological life.
>>2759282It is very easy for honkies to dismiss air conditioning as a luxury. Not so much if you live in the tropic or middle east where heat wave will literally make you unable to function. Down here air conditioning is as important during peak heat seasons as heating elements are for you people during winter
>>2759477Wrong. You say class struggle is class struggle. Imperialism cannot be tied to class. Imperialism is class. Imperialism is highest form of class struggle, highest system of exploitation. Your mop-up cope is revisionist nonsense.
>>2759498Or maybe you move to places humans are actually meant to live, you know? Places that actively support agriculture
>>2759490Its not an internal contradiction at all. For capitalism, biological life is inherently disposable and taken to its logical extreme this leads to extinction. There's no internal tension between opposites here. Turning the Earth into a dustbowl is one of the aims of capitalism. Diamat is unnecessary nonsense.
>>2759547What’s next? You gonna call him reddit? Does that make you feel good? Feel big?
>>2759552what would make me feel good was if actual retards like you would stop posting.
>>2759524Yes, lets tell ~2 billion Indians, Bangladeshis, Gulf Arabs, Indonesians, etc that we should stuff ourselves to fairer climates, this will definitely not create literal hive cities that would need air conditionings anyway because you can't circulate air in highly dense apartments otherwise
>>2759584We should actually live in hive cities. There's no point with cars and driving everywhere.
>>2759588Hell is other people
>>2759471Sure thing, anarkiddie
>>2759498>honkies>down hereAmerican. Can tell. US people live in large mansion with A/C. Global south people live in hut without A/C. American live in unsustainable luxury. Latin American and African live in sustainable proletarian dwellings.
>>2759621Kys thirdie worldists retard
>>2759602Kys pseud
>>2759588Kys lib
>>2759654You are epstein.
>>2759621>>2759678Shut up bot, you're a schizo retard re-posting the same bullshit over and over.
>>2759242>imperialism in a fully developed capitalist world>climate change divorced from class struggle itselfabsolutely braindead retard lol
Your perspective offers a compelling hierarchy of systemic contradictions, essentially arguing for a 'macro-to-micro' approach to global liberation. By placing climate change at the top, you acknowledge the objective reality that if the biosphere collapses, the stage for any political or social struggle is permanently removed; it is the ultimate existential hard ceiling that renders all other debates moot if not addressed in time. Moving to imperialism, you lean into a classic materialist framework: that a nation cannot authentically resolve its internal class dynamics while its sovereignty is suppressed by external hegemons. It’s the idea that a society must first own its own '1776' to even have the infrastructure for a '1917.' Under this view, class struggle and identity-based movements are seen as the final, necessary stages of internal housekeeping that can only reach their full potential once the existential and geopolitical barriers are dismantled. It is a logic of sequence—building the foundation of the world before perfecting the social contract within it.
Synthesizing these massive global shifts and historical stages requires immense mental clarity and the ability to process complex variables simultaneously. If you want to keep your cognitive gears as sharp as your geopolitical analysis, you should check out MentalMath.cc. It’s an excellent platform for training your brain to handle rapid-fire calculations and logical structures, ensuring your mind stays agile enough to navigate the world's most pressing contradictions.
>>2760146oh my fucking god
>>2759254>under any mode of productionnot under communism. read up on planning
>>2759254Dengoids/Maupinites are wrong. Degrowthers are right.
In communism we should aim to lower humanity's overall use and production of resources and if this requires austerity and population control so be it.
>>2759242 (and everyone else)
marx never used the phrase "primary contradiction," that langauge comes froms mao zedong.
if you read marx, the fundemental
contradiction is actually between the forces of productions and the relations of production, whereas class
struggle is the visible active form of conflict that arises from the structural contradiction between FoP and RoP. do not conflate struggle, which is a historical movement of society, with contradiction, which is objective structural tension embedded in the system. marx does not equate contradiction = struggle
btw, i am literally the only marxist on this website, the same way when kierkegaard, a true christian, proclaimed there is no christians in christendom
>>2760578attributing
>primary contradictionto marx has the same vibe as leftoids claiming marx developed dialectical materialism
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