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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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Bukharin was one of the best bolsheviks who played a major role during the October revolution and was admired by Lenin. He was also a friend of Stalin.
61 posts and 8 image replies omitted.

>>2774782
Counterargument to what? What argument did he reply to?

>>2774791
Then install a text-to-speech application and use it on this thread, will help with accessibility issues with using text-oriented internet platforms like this

Friendly reminder that Stalin pacted with the nazis. Stalinoids love nazis

>>2774335
bukharin literally came up with sioc lmao

He should have been executed because he disagreed on the question of collectivization

>>2774832
dont be retarded. most of the rest of europe also signed non-aggression pacts with the nazis, and the soviets were the last to do so after trying to establish an anti-fascist pact with the western powers for years at that point

>>2773265
No, but he did have all the best revolutionary thinkers of the Bolshevik Central Committee liquidated. Or do you deny that the purges happened?

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>>2775031
reminds me of this quote by kissinger

After the failure of the international revolution, it became increasingly harder for the Soviet Union to survive. So the people in charge of it eventually abandoned communism, and those opposed to such opportunism were killed.

It wasn't just a Stalin thing, the ruling class of USSR executed whatever communists were left.

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Old buk. Well He wanted to keep social democrats in power which if in power would have collaborated with he Nazis and would have given hitler total victory . And it’s why you should never hold power because you are soft Hope that helps

>>2772786
Well, after reading that, it's obvious Bukharin had to be shot. It's just common sense.

I'm reading all of these posts and writing down names BTW.

>>2776022
comrade chudayakowsky is looking suspicious today, please kill him

>>2773684
Leftists suck at remaking right-wing memes.

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>>2773393
>picrel
LMFAOOOO

>>2774604
Then you have a new problem: lack of new leaders able to take over once the current one dies

>>socialism, has to accommodate and allow for disagreement with the mainstream political line
>Lmao fuck no
Why are stalinoids like this? Truly the traitors of the revolution

https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1906/may/20c.htm

>>2776544
Internal debate (science) =/= vague "disagreement"

By framing it in terms of "disagreement" and "opinion" you're sneaking in bourgeois ideology, where such disagreements are just expressions of particular class interests

>>2777606
jacobinistic drivel

>>2773309
>meanwhile self-interested non-ideological leftists knew how to play the game and not only survived the purges, but rose to the top and Politburo
They hated him because he told them the truth. Purges don't extinguish revisionism, they encourage it. It creates an environment that selects for people with no principles or convictions.

>>2774604
>See what khruschev's, brezhnev's and gotbachev's "disagreements" with marxism-leninism led to
Yeah and they used the repressive apparatus Stalin built to attack anti-revisionists, and used the same arguments about unity and party discipline to justify it.

>>2773309
>Bukharin's crime was basically being a loudmouth smartass. That's it.
Read the trial transcripts.
They were guilty of wrecking, murder, collusion with foreign fascist states, and embezzlement.

>>2774536
I think harping on the death of some people a century later is moralism and that it's very naive to get involved in revolutionary politics without realizing that purges happen and you could wind up on the wrong side of them.

>>2778417
This. If the revolution requires my execution, who am I do deny the verdict? If the people decide that the greatest possible contribution I can give for socialism is my death, then surely it is just.

>>2777973
Come on. Bukharin though the trial was so fucking nonsensical and absurd, he literally believed he was being pranked or it was some bullshit PR show where he would get a slap on the wrist.
Even Molotov of all people knew that Bukharin couldn't believe what he was hearing.
Interesting that the Purges hit everyone that was a threat to Beria, yet absolute utter fucking shitlibs like Beria himself, Khuruschev, Kosygin and the rest of the Libtards that made up the 19th+ Politburo were able to rise to the top.
I mean Kosygin literally dismantled Central Planning working hand in hand with a Zionist Jew and dismantled Soviet cybernetics because it posed a threat to the emerging banker class appearing out of the Ministry of Finance.

>>2778489
>I mean Kosygin literally dismantled Central Planning
He calculated that with their current technology Soviet cybernetics would cost more than the Soviet space program by order of magnitude and Khrushchev and Co. felt it was too costly.

>>2778489
>read the wikipedia article reward

>>2778417
that's why i'll never be a revolutionary. i'll always be an NPC. you really expect me to get a 2nd job that doesn't pay me, survive bourgeois repression, survive a civil war, and survive a purge after the civil war? get real.

>>2778510
You say that as if the transcript has any conclusive evidence, it's all just testimonies

>>2778523
Become a trot, we believe in democracy


>>2778652
Trotsky himself rejected "democratization" before his death, he only intended it as a strategy for the workers to regain control of the "degenerated worker's state" and we saw that "democratization" only lead to what we have today - a bourgeois democracy like always

>>2780995
Whoa.. Stalin killed Sverdlov…

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>>2780995
this is the most horrific thing about this. While the image isnt fully accurate, some of these guys died before the purges and civil war, a decent chunk still did die during the purges. Add in gettys numbers where 50 percent of gov parts or even up to 90 percent died during the purges and uh I dont exactly trust mls

I don’t really care what would happened to the Old Bolsheviks. His worst mistake was purging the officer corpsm the mass casualties the Soviet Union suffered were a result of that decision. If he hadn’t done it, the Soviets would have been able to conquer much more of Europe and possibly expand into the Middle East and North Africa.

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>>2781073
The scale of what happened was excessive, but the fear behind it wasn’t entirely baseless. With only a few exceptions, most Red Army officers had been Tsarist officers or former members of the White forces, guys who probably kept books like The Protocols of the Elders of Zion in their personal libraries. Stalin understood that kind of mindset and it wasn’t unreasonable to suspect that some of them might have been inclined toward a coup. Whether such a coup would have led to the collapse of the Soviet Union or pushed it toward a more openly nationalistic Russian empire, similar to what emerged under Brezhnev, but perhaps even more explicit is hard to say.

>>2778652
trotsky would have purged just as hard as stalin had he won the power struggle.

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>>2780999
>Whoa.. Stalin killed Sverdlov…

>>2781078
>pic
fake quote
genocide as a term was coined by raphael lemkin after ww2
tukhachevsky died in 1937

>>2781174
that's beriya, that man was the devil

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>purge all communists
>leave all the socdems/liberals
>union immediately goes to shit

>>2781175
The point still stands, during that fragile time it wasn’t a baseless conspiracy theory that there could have been a military coup.

>>2781073
>>2781078
But the reason the Nazis invaded the Soviet Union was largely due to the officer purges and the Red Army’s poor performance in the Winter War. Without those purges the Germans would have been more cautious and perhaps even conceded influence over places like Bulgaria to the Soviets. From there it’s anyone’s guess what might have happens next, possibly closer cooperation between Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union or even the Soviets joining the Axis.

>>2781652
>But the reason the Nazis invaded the Soviet Union was largely due to the officer purges and the Red Army’s poor performance in the Winter War. Without those purges the Germans would have been more cautious and perhaps even conceded influence over places like Bulgaria to the Soviets.
Sorry but that's completely ridiculous if you know anything about the Nazis. They were not only on an ideological crusade against communism, but the conquest of Eastern Europe and its settlement by Germans had been a dream of German imperialism since the late 19th century, and was only strengthened by Nazi racial theories. From the Nazi perspective the USSR was not only the ultimate ideological evil, but was populated by subhuman savages sitting on vast fertile land who deserved to be displaced and enslaved by superior Germans. The Germans were already pretty convinced that they could easily defeat the Soviets even before the purges, since they had defeated the Russians in WW1 and held the aforementioned ideas about their racial superiority. At most the purges and the Winter War accelerated the German plans, but war between the two was practically inevitable.

>>2781771
Hitler and Himmler were convinced, but pretty much everyone else remained cautious. It was the performance in the Winter War that persuaded them to Invade. The fact that they gradually adjusted their racial policies to allow Slavs and Spaniards to fight alongside them shows that those views were flexible. Even if we dismiss their ideology today despite considering the Soviets as ‘subhuman,’ they still recognized that the Soviets had vast manpower and resource and Soviet military thinkers were highly regarded even by the most devoted Nazi officers. You’re right that something could have led them to war, but it would never be an easy victory and they wouldn’t have risked it.

>Hitler had already issued a secret directive on the eventual attempts to invade the Soviet Union.[87][89] He had not yet abandoned the possibility of other political outcomes and still talked of a "great worldwide coalition that stretched from Yokohama to Spain", but he had resolved to not give up the Balkans.[90]

>Meanwhile, the Soviets immediately summoned the Bulgarian ambassador to the Foreign Ministry and stated that the Soviets needed to do a deal with the Bulgarians before they joined the Axis and that Germany was attempting to make them a puppet state.[90] The Bulgarians turned down the offer and leaked it to Germany.[90] Hitler still hoped to dissuade Stalin from giving guarantees to Bulgaria if the Bosporus issue could be solved, and he pressed the Bulgarian ambassador that the Soviets could be persuaded against resistance if the Bulgarians joined the pact, and he warned about the horrors of Soviet occupation.[90]
>The Soviets had meanwhile produced the biggest surprise. In an unannounced November 25 visit in Sofia, the Soviets told Bulgarian Prime Minister Bogdan Filov that if Bulgaria permitted transfer access to Soviet troops, the Soviets were prepared to drop their objections to Bulgaria's entry into the Axis, and most surprisingly, the Soviets stated that it likely would not be an issue, as it would "very probably, almost certainly" lead to the Soviets' own entry into the Axis.[91] The stunned Filov stated that it required further contemplation.[91] The Soviet negotiators had concluded that the Bulgarian government "is already committed to Germany to the hilt".[91]

>Stalin told the head of the Comintern, the Bulgarian Georgi Dimitrov, that Germany wanted Italy in the Balkans, but in the final analysis, it had no choice but to recognise Soviet interests in maintaining Black Sea access and to assure that the Bosporus would not be used against them.[91]

>Stalin directed Molotov to draft a new pact with a much greater scope, including the division of Europe, Asia and Africa among the four powers.[92] On November 25, the same day as the surprise statement of Soviet nonresistance to Bulgaria's joining the Axis and a potential Soviet joining of the pact,[93] the Soviets offered a counterproposal to Ribbentrop's draft agreement.[87] It began, "The Soviet government is prepared to accept the draft of the Pact of Four Powers on political cooperation and economic mutual assistance".[87] Instead of two secret protocols, Stalin proposed five:
>German troops would depart Finland in exchange for a Soviet guarantee of continued nickel and wood shipments and peace with Finland;
>A mutual assistance pact to be signed with Bulgaria in the next few months that would permit Soviet bases;
>The centre of Soviet territorial domination would be south of Baku and Batumi (ports now in Azerbaijan and Georgia, south of which are Iraq and Iran);
>Japanese renunciation of rights to northern Sakhalin, oil and coal concessions in exchange as a compensation;
>An affirmation that the Soviet-Bulgaria mutual assistance treaty was a political necessity.[9]
>The proposals came concurrently with massively-increased economic offers.[93] The Soviets promised by May 11, 1941, the delivery of 2.5 million tons of grain, 1 million tons above their current obligations.[9] They also promised full compensation for Volksdeutsche property claims.[9]

>>2782127
>Hitler and Himmler were convinced, but pretty much everyone else remained cautious.
The German military staff was entirely unanimous in their agreement to invade the USSR. Remember, the Nazis only started to replace the military leadership with their own guys after the Battle for Moscow, in 1941 these are the same generals of the Weimar government, of the high Prussian aristocracy, in the same military families some going back even to Frederick the Great (both Hitler and Frederick had a Manstein and a Seydlitz for example). These generals were extremely reserved about, say, the invasion of France or especially the invasion of Czechoslovakia, but there was, again, zero opposition amongst them to the Soviet invasion.

>>2778496
yeah man, IT and cybernetics cost more than a fucking vanity project. So costly, just ignore its literally the SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT FUCKING DEVELOPMENT FOR SOCIALISM TO TAKE FUCKING PLACE AND WHEN THE IT REVOLUTION OCCURED, IT LITERALLY INCREASED GDP 10x OVER.
Stop justifying this stupid fucking bullshit. Destroying Soviet cybernetics was the most utterly retarded shit imaginable and done entirely to keep power within the Ministry of Finance and deligtimize the Central Statistics Bureau.

>>2782205
>Destroying Soviet cybernetics
Gosplan was not cybernetics.
I wonder if the Soviet Economy had any sort of development in its quantity of products between NEP and in the 1960s.

>>2781652
Stalin derangement syndrome


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