Bukharin was one of the best bolsheviks who played a major role during the October revolution and was admired by Lenin. He was also a friend of Stalin.
84 posts and 12 image replies omitted.>>2774536I think harping on the death of some people a century later is moralism and that it's very naive to get involved in revolutionary politics without realizing that purges happen and you could wind up on the wrong side of them.
>>2778417This. If the revolution requires my execution, who am I do deny the verdict? If the people decide that the greatest possible contribution I can give for socialism is my death, then surely it is just.
>>2777973Come on. Bukharin though the trial was so fucking nonsensical and absurd, he literally believed he was being pranked or it was some bullshit PR show where he would get a slap on the wrist.
Even Molotov of all people knew that Bukharin couldn't believe what he was hearing.
Interesting that the Purges hit everyone that was a threat to Beria, yet absolute utter fucking shitlibs like Beria himself, Khuruschev, Kosygin and the rest of the Libtards that made up the 19th+ Politburo were able to rise to the top.
I mean Kosygin literally dismantled Central Planning working hand in hand with a Zionist Jew and dismantled Soviet cybernetics because it posed a threat to the emerging banker class appearing out of the Ministry of Finance.
>>2778489>I mean Kosygin literally dismantled Central PlanningHe calculated that with their current technology Soviet cybernetics would cost more than the Soviet space program by order of magnitude and Khrushchev and Co. felt it was too costly.
>>2778417that's why i'll never be a revolutionary. i'll always be an NPC. you really expect me to get a 2nd job that doesn't pay me, survive bourgeois repression, survive a civil war, and survive a purge after the civil war? get real.
>>2778510You say that as if the transcript has any conclusive evidence, it's all just testimonies
>>2778523Become a trot, we believe in democracy
>>2778652Trotsky himself rejected "democratization" before his death, he only intended it as a strategy for the workers to regain control of the "degenerated worker's state" and we saw that "democratization" only lead to what we have today - a bourgeois democracy like always
>>2780995Whoa.. Stalin killed Sverdlov…
>>2778652trotsky would have purged just as hard as stalin had he won the power struggle.
>>2781078>picfake quote
genocide as a term was coined by raphael lemkin after ww2
tukhachevsky died in 1937
>>2781174that's beriya, that man was the devil
>>2781175The point still stands, during that fragile time it wasn’t a baseless conspiracy theory that there could have been a military coup.
>>2781073>>2781078But the reason the Nazis invaded the Soviet Union was largely due to the officer purges and the Red Army’s poor performance in the Winter War. Without those purges the Germans would have been more cautious and perhaps even conceded influence over places like Bulgaria to the Soviets. From there it’s anyone’s guess what might have happens next, possibly closer cooperation between Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union or even the Soviets joining the Axis.
>>2781652>But the reason the Nazis invaded the Soviet Union was largely due to the officer purges and the Red Army’s poor performance in the Winter War. Without those purges the Germans would have been more cautious and perhaps even conceded influence over places like Bulgaria to the Soviets. Sorry but that's completely ridiculous if you know anything about the Nazis. They were not only on an ideological crusade against communism, but the conquest of Eastern Europe and its settlement by Germans had been a dream of German imperialism since the late 19th century, and was only strengthened by Nazi racial theories. From the Nazi perspective the USSR was not only the ultimate ideological evil, but was populated by subhuman savages sitting on vast fertile land who deserved to be displaced and enslaved by superior Germans. The Germans were already pretty convinced that they could easily defeat the Soviets even before the purges, since they had defeated the Russians in WW1 and held the aforementioned ideas about their racial superiority. At most the purges and the Winter War accelerated the German plans, but war between the two was practically inevitable.
>>2781771Hitler and Himmler were convinced, but pretty much everyone else remained cautious. It was the performance in the Winter War that persuaded them to Invade. The fact that they gradually adjusted their racial policies to allow Slavs and Spaniards to fight alongside them shows that those views were flexible. Even if we dismiss their ideology today despite considering the Soviets as ‘subhuman,’ they still recognized that the Soviets had vast manpower and resource and Soviet military thinkers were highly regarded even by the most devoted Nazi officers. You’re right that something could have led them to war, but it would never be an easy victory and they wouldn’t have risked it.
>Hitler had already issued a secret directive on the eventual attempts to invade the Soviet Union.[87][89] He had not yet abandoned the possibility of other political outcomes and still talked of a "great worldwide coalition that stretched from Yokohama to Spain", but he had resolved to not give up the Balkans.[90]>Meanwhile, the Soviets immediately summoned the Bulgarian ambassador to the Foreign Ministry and stated that the Soviets needed to do a deal with the Bulgarians before they joined the Axis and that Germany was attempting to make them a puppet state.[90] The Bulgarians turned down the offer and leaked it to Germany.[90] Hitler still hoped to dissuade Stalin from giving guarantees to Bulgaria if the Bosporus issue could be solved, and he pressed the Bulgarian ambassador that the Soviets could be persuaded against resistance if the Bulgarians joined the pact, and he warned about the horrors of Soviet occupation.[90]>The Soviets had meanwhile produced the biggest surprise. In an unannounced November 25 visit in Sofia, the Soviets told Bulgarian Prime Minister Bogdan Filov that if Bulgaria permitted transfer access to Soviet troops, the Soviets were prepared to drop their objections to Bulgaria's entry into the Axis, and most surprisingly, the Soviets stated that it likely would not be an issue, as it would "very probably, almost certainly" lead to the Soviets' own entry into the Axis.[91] The stunned Filov stated that it required further contemplation.[91] The Soviet negotiators had concluded that the Bulgarian government "is already committed to Germany to the hilt".[91]
>Stalin told the head of the Comintern, the Bulgarian Georgi Dimitrov, that Germany wanted Italy in the Balkans, but in the final analysis, it had no choice but to recognise Soviet interests in maintaining Black Sea access and to assure that the Bosporus would not be used against them.[91]>Stalin directed Molotov to draft a new pact with a much greater scope, including the division of Europe, Asia and Africa among the four powers.[92] On November 25, the same day as the surprise statement of Soviet nonresistance to Bulgaria's joining the Axis and a potential Soviet joining of the pact,[93] the Soviets offered a counterproposal to Ribbentrop's draft agreement.[87] It began, "The Soviet government is prepared to accept the draft of the Pact of Four Powers on political cooperation and economic mutual assistance".[87] Instead of two secret protocols, Stalin proposed five:>German troops would depart Finland in exchange for a Soviet guarantee of continued nickel and wood shipments and peace with Finland;>A mutual assistance pact to be signed with Bulgaria in the next few months that would permit Soviet bases;>The centre of Soviet territorial domination would be south of Baku and Batumi (ports now in Azerbaijan and Georgia, south of which are Iraq and Iran);>Japanese renunciation of rights to northern Sakhalin, oil and coal concessions in exchange as a compensation;>An affirmation that the Soviet-Bulgaria mutual assistance treaty was a political necessity.[9]>The proposals came concurrently with massively-increased economic offers.[93] The Soviets promised by May 11, 1941, the delivery of 2.5 million tons of grain, 1 million tons above their current obligations.[9] They also promised full compensation for Volksdeutsche property claims.[9] >>2782127>Hitler and Himmler were convinced, but pretty much everyone else remained cautious. The German military staff was entirely unanimous in their agreement to invade the USSR. Remember, the Nazis only started to replace the military leadership with their own guys after the Battle for Moscow, in 1941 these are the same generals of the Weimar government, of the high Prussian aristocracy, in the same military families some going back even to Frederick the Great (both Hitler and Frederick had a Manstein and a Seydlitz for example). These generals were extremely reserved about, say, the invasion of France or especially the invasion of Czechoslovakia, but there was, again, zero opposition amongst them to the Soviet invasion.
>>2778496yeah man, IT and cybernetics cost more than a fucking vanity project. So costly, just ignore its literally the SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT FUCKING DEVELOPMENT FOR SOCIALISM TO TAKE FUCKING PLACE AND WHEN THE IT REVOLUTION OCCURED, IT LITERALLY INCREASED GDP 10x OVER.
Stop justifying this stupid fucking bullshit. Destroying Soviet cybernetics was the most utterly retarded shit imaginable and done entirely to keep power within the Ministry of Finance and deligtimize the Central Statistics Bureau.
>>2782205>Destroying Soviet cyberneticsGosplan was not cybernetics.
I wonder if the Soviet Economy had any sort of development in its quantity of products between NEP and in the 1960s.
>>2781652Stalin derangement syndrome
reading all this and now I'm even doubting stalin killed trotsky. we've all seen the evidence: the drawing of stalin in a mexican hat and poncho with a minecraft pickaxe but how can we know the cia didn't draw a picture of a freddy mercury impersonator and kill trotsky themselves.
was there a single good marxist theorist post-stalin?
Pashukani
Bukharin
LL Rubin
all got killed. I don't even read Soviets past the 1930s because the Americans just ended up with better theorists (Mattick) followed by the Japanese (Sekine).
>>2789657>twenty pagesyou're lucky if you even get that much
>>2789262Debord, Baudrillard, Lefebvre.
Stalin didn't really contribute meaningfully to theory, especially concerning developed economies… all he wrote was either debunking Trotsky or re-hashing stuff Lenin wrote.
>>2789697>Stalin didn't really contribute meaningfully to theoryI disagree; his text on linguistics is interesting (1950):
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1950/jun/20.htm >>2789699I haven't seen that one!
I'll give it a read.
>>2789657>>2789692WTF trot papers are you reading? Mine dont look like this.
>>2781078>>2781078Tukhachevsky used the word genocide before it was coined?
>>2781078Nothing wrong with a little anti Zion literature. Tukachevsky>>>Stalin
Only reason forced collectivization is fine is because of WW2 but if Tukachevsky takes over, the USSR joins the Axis so the NEP lasts forever and the USSR still exists today.
>>2790781Even assuming Tukachevsky maintained his earlier antisemitism and Perun worshipping antics (a not unreasonable assumption), the idea that he or any other Russian leader would be able or willing to ally with the Axis powers is just fantasy. The whole of the Third Reich was built towards expanding eastwards and destroying Bolshevism and subhuman Slavs, there could be no alliance between Russia and Germany in any form as long as Germany was controlled by the Nazis. As for economic policies, dude was somewhere in the leftist camp so he definitely wouldn't have continued the NEP
>>2778489Finally someone that gets it. Bukharin, Bogdanov and Glushkov mog whatever the fuck the rest were doing.
>>2778510More like Gluskhov's memoirs, try it. He even says all of his opponents later tuck tail and left for the US and Israel… Ran an early life check and mostly checked out
>>2790788Uh, shitler literally notes that a big chunk of the Wehrmacht were hoping the Red army would overthrow Stalin in the late 30s. And Tukachevsky's famous toast in 1936 to the Germans says it all. Also shitler said in his 2nd book that national communism is good and that if Russia retreats from "capitalist bolshevism"(he's mentally ill I know) to national communism, that they could be good allies.
He was against the retarded forced collectivization. Note also how the main ideologue of the ROA, Zykov, was a pro-Bukharin Marxist. Also the 2 leaders of the Lokot Autonomy were pro Bukharin in the mid 30s and even glazed Bukharin and Tukachevsky in the official occupied areas newspapers.
>>2772364>Bukharin was one of the best bolsheviks who played a major role during the October revolution and was admired by Leninlenin said he had no grasp of marxist theory and politics
>>2790812Not an argument. Baldie's war communism was a complete failure so he had to turn to Bukharin's NEP. Until the end of his life, he cried about Bukharin being hypnotized by gigachad Bogdanov
>>2790879peasant worshipers aren't marxists
its one thing to recognize the potential in the peasantry and the need to uplift through proletarianization and another to call for their enrichment and continued status in a post revolutionary world
>>2773538this is exactly the point. Behind the creation of the socialism in one country theoretical line the undoubtedly worst crime stalin ever did was the creation of the polish anti communist, some of the most insufferable specimens
>>2773377>>2773354Be real what are they gonna do in prison? it's not like the big dzerzh or trotsky who got released after a while of rotting inside (major fuckup by the whites fr). They can't dig themselves out with spoons or some shit.
>>2790888>peasant worshippersBad cope but even if this is true, it just shows peasant worshipers>marxists
Did Stalin actually contribute on the creation of Israel?
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