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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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China’s current rise can be understood as a return to the historical norm rather than an anomaly: for much of recorded history, China was among the world’s most advanced and powerful civilizations, often the largest economy and a global center of technology (printing, gunpowder, ceramic, the compass), governance, and culture. During eras such as the Han Dynasty, China developed sophisticated state institutions, large-scale agriculture, and expansive trade networks; in the Tang Dynasty, it stood as a cosmopolitan hub of culture, commerce, and innovation linked to Eurasian trade routes; and under the Song Dynasty, it achieved extraordinary economic and technological sophistication, with some estimates placing it as the world’s largest economy due to advances like paper money, urbanization, and industrial-scale production. Even into the early modern period, China remained a dominant civilizational center with a sizable percentage of global GDP as late as the 18th century, until finally succumbing to the disruptions of the Opium Wars in the 19th century and the weakening of the Qing Dynasty during the Taiping Rebellion. In this long historical arc, China’s current resurgence under the centralized leadership of the Communist Party can be seen as a return to its historical position of civilizational centrality, combining state-directed industrial strategy and vast manufacturing capacity, while the much younger and less stable settler-colonial entity fancying itself the United States of America faces growing internal polarization policy inconsistencies and self-defeating blunders that make it a pariah rogue state despised even by its allies. From this perspective, the shifting global balance of power represents not an exceptional transformation, but a reemergence of a long-standing historical pattern in which China occupies a central role in global economic and civilizational hierarchy.

China’s long-standing dominance throughout history can be attributed to a combination of geographical, political, cultural, and natural resource factors. Geographically, China benefited from fertile river valleys like the Yangtze and Yellow Rivers, which supported dense populations and large-scale agriculture, while natural defenses such as the Himalayas and Gobi Desert provided protection from external threats. Politically, China was able to establish a strong centralized government, particularly during dynasties like the Han, Tang, and Song, with a meritocratic bureaucracy that ensured efficient governance. Culturally, a deep sense of unity and continuity, reinforced by Confucian values, promoted social stability, while China’s intellectual and technological innovations such as papermaking, printing, and gunpowder kept it at the forefront of global advancements. Additionally, the abundance of resources, including fertile land for agriculture and valuable trade goods like silk fueled economic strength and sustained large urban populations. Together, these factors created a self-reinforcing cycle of prosperity, political unity, and cultural cohesion, allowing China to maintain its position as a dominant global power for centuries.

The only thing that makes this return to historical norm different is the socialism and high tech. It's the dialectical spiral, you see.

trvke

>muh civilization
Nationalism

All of that rise is based on selling plastic shit to westerners, if the US ever truly collapses the Chinese immediately fall into an overproduction crisis and all this “rise” is over. No one else will ever consume the way Americans do. China also, like every other east asian tiger economy, has a collapsing birthrate and thus population.

>>2778778
China is a civilizational state, not a national one.

>>2778841
> civilizational state
not a real thing

Chinese can’t innovate

>>2778848
Great, fuck China and fuck America too.

>>2779096
>Chinese can’t innovate
Firstly, Chinese absolutely can innovate, which is why the USA relies on Chinese foreign exchange students for so much of its research. Take a random sample of STEM research papers from major US universities and you are bound to find the names of several Chinese nationals on them.

Secondly, Soviets invented the science of innovation called TRIZ which every fortune 500 corporation now uses. Everyone can innovate now because it's been reduced to a context sensitive dialectical process of identifying contradictions within a problem and testing potential resolutions, pros, and cons, from a set of common design patterns, first identified by Soviet Azerbaijani scientist Genrich Altshuller after he studied thousands of patents.

>>2779119
why buy into his premise? He's just wrong. Chinese can and do innovate, which is why every American house is full of "made in China" but no Chinese house is full of "made in America."

>>2778787
>All of that rise is based on selling plastic shit to westerners
The Chinese are making the the majority of solar panels, wind turbines, and other renewables
>overproduction crisis
China doesn't have overproduction crises because its enterprises are state owned and the state will literally nerf the stock market if needed, every time. Foreigners who wanted to profit off China's rise were actually very frustrated to find that their stock market is flat, because the Chinese would rather let the profit rate decline than do what western corporations do, which is pour milk down the drain when they make too much milk, burn the crops when they grow too many crops, burn down the factory with fire insurance fraud when they manufacture too many commodities, etc. They have overcome the entire paradigm of the overproduction crisis and the destruction of productive forces because they really are, flaws aside, in a lower stage socialism. The USSR was also free of overproduction crises despite its flaws and eventual relapse.

>>2778841
>>2778848
I don't find this framework helpful.


>>2779151
>>2779161
You're being reductive. There are major differences. The worst you could say about China is they trade with everyone and have no moral scruples about it, and made a lot of reactionary foreign policy decisions in the 60s and 70s. But compared to America it's night and day. Who has 800 offshore bases? Who tried to coup every country that tried to go socialist, or even just social-democratic, or even merely tried to have resource sovereignty? Who bombed Vietname, Cambodia, Laos, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Somalia, Yemen, Iran? Who bankrolls zionist settlers to the tune of billions? The USA. It's not even close. To flatten the USA and China into the same thing as the same is to privilege the USA. And no, Capitalist nations are not all equally reactionary. That is a very poor and childish analysis.

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>>2779225
i hope your foot gets better

Fuck every confucian on the Earth, it is the most reactionary ideology same as every spiritual tradition, and fuck rightists like you OP.

>>2778841
whats a civilizational state

>>2779239
don't hesitate to get physical therapy if it doesn't get better. if you're american and you can't afford it, just accept the medical debt because it's easy to ignore debt collectors when the debt is medical debt

>>2779242
A civilizational state is a country that sees itself as the modern expression of an ancient, continuous civilization rather than just a political nation-state defined by borders and citizenship. Popularized by thinkers like Martin Jacques and influenced by ideas from Samuel P. Huntington, it emphasizes deep historical roots, cultural continuity, and civilizational identity (as often claimed by China, Iran, India), contrasting with nation-states, which are typically modern and grounded in shared citizenship and political sovereignty.

Countries like the USA, Canada, Mexico are "nation states" or even "Settler States" while countries like China, Russia, Iran, India are "Civilizational States"

Israel is funny because it is a settler state full of newcomers larping as a civilizational state with a resurrected Hebrew language that had is vocabulary literally constructed by linguists over the course of the past century, with only a tentative tie to liturgical Hebrew reserved for religious settings.

>>2779246
because often when you get a bone bruise there is usually damage to the nerves and ligaments around the bone. Especially when you're talking about hands or feet. To get those muscles working again you need physical therapy. I had to drive my grandma to physical therapy weekly for months after she tripped on her cat and landed on her hand. It was "just a sprain" but then it was revealed she had extensive damage to the nerves and ligaments on the back of the hand.

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>>2779255
then you are being socially murdered by the bourgeoisie and i am sorry

>>2779265
>I am the bourgeois, my family is bourgeois and I’m American, every breath I take and every dollar earned and spent is imperialist anyway, it doesn’t matter
your earlier statement doesn't make you sound bourgeois:
>I work two jobs that require me to be on my feet all the time, I can’t get that time off or money for PT
doesn't sound bourgeois

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>>2778787
> if the US ever truly collapses the Chinese immediately fall into an overproduction crisis
Maybe not immediately, but for sure they're going to feel it
>>2778841
Hang yourself nazi
>>2779223
> China doesn't have overproduction crises because its enterprises are state owned and the state will literally nerf the stock market if needed
< Doesn't understand what an overproduction crisis is or implies
> the Chinese would rather let the profit rate decline than do what western corporations do, which is pour milk down the drain when they make too much milk, burn the crops when they grow too many crops
Why is that the average dengoid doesn't even know the most basic factors of the chinese economy? Their whole B&R initiative is their attempt to starve of the decline of ROP that started more than a decade ago.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_Out_policy
Every time they announce another round of reforms is to increase the profitability of their SoEs, because those profits are used to finance the state, and if they go down too much they're going to have a lot of issues

>>2778499
You in the 30s: Italy's current rise can be understood as a retvrn to a historical norm.

>>2779705
Italy didn't rise in the 30s though. they couldn't even hold onto Ethiopia LOL.
>>2779722
contrarian take

>>2779598
Belt & Road is about improving trade networks and building up productive forces in third world countries the US targeted with structural adjustment programs and austerity, not about increasing the declining rate of profit.

>>2779223

What are you yapping about? It’s a well-known fat that Chinese wealth sits at the top of all the American IP they were handed to on a silver platter by the USA. No access to US genius = China still a shithole.

Tbf, Japan’s wealth is also due to being handed out American IPs by America’s capitalist class, far more egregiously than China I might add.

>>2779911
>all the American IP they were handed to on a silver platter by the USA.
you have it exactly backwards. Most American "IP" over the past few decades was created by Eurasian foreign exchange students because burgers are retards who can't do STEM.

>>2779911
take away foreign researchers, prison slaves, immigrant crop-pickers, and exorbitant privilege from dollar hegemony, and the US is just an extremely mediocre settler colony that got lucky because it played both sides in WW2.

>>2779960
>he thinks China is monoethnic
are you stupid?

>>2779960
>>2779960
Importing foreigners as cheap labor isn't actually the only way of interacting with other cultures you know.

Not saying Chinese are good at that (yet) even, just saying imitating everything the US does isn't the only path to progress.

>>2780025 (me)
Honestly China should just build Universities in foreign countries where like 20% of the student body is chinese and see what comes from that.

>>2780031
not what was said

>>2779985
>>2780016
>ok it's not monoethnic but here's my new goalpost: 90%

>>2780097
you said I said
>there is no chinese
now you are saying i said
>not everyone is chinese
are you ever going to respond to something i actually said

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>>2780103
>I mean I can ask you why you say China is not Mono ethnic
because it's not. simple as.

>>2780170
Also analyzing in terms of percentages is kind of retarded. The one child policy only applied to Han Chinese so this is after decades of population growth suppression against the Han majority while the minority ethnic groups were allowed to expand unrestricted. That 1% or whatever really represents millions of people.

>>2780171

Especially when most of those minorities live in the more underpopulated provinces of eastern China, skewing the proportions further in each province. As an example, Tibetans are less than 1% of the total population of the PRC, and yet they're the super-majority in the province of Tibet. This is in contrast to the more homogenous coastal provinces like Guangdong which have Han supermajorities.

>>2779917
>>2779923

Cope unless you back up your claims with actual evidence. It's all hometown white American talent right there. And let's be honest here: Without YUGE capital investment and offshoring from America to China, China would still be a poor country verging on least developed status: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/04/ken-langone-us-helped-china-build-its-economy-for-decades.html

As for "much eurasians": The USA was a rising power even in the 19th century, and yet non-chinese immigration was minimal to none. How come?

>>2780170
tbh I don't get why people would unironically think China could ever be close to mono ethnic,that bitch is bigger than all the european states included bro

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>>2778499
Been thinking about this for a while: how important is Confucian ideology to the success of socialism? It seems the PRC has synthesized the teachings of Confucianism with Marxism-Leninism to create an incredibly dynamic and resilient system which has so far resisted the nihilistic degeneration of the western left.

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>>2779792
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_Out_policy
>>2779705
Italy only really modernized in the 1960's
>>2780183
The bulk of China's industrialization was during Mao
>>2780484
Confucianism is eastoid reactionary garbage, if anything it's introduction is yet another sign of the capitalist road taken by china

>>2779252
Would a federated EU be civilizational state?

i mean yes this is all obviously true tho a bit weird language and framing like theres some moral triumphalism involved. im not sure what your point is overall.

if you are just saying china is historically very important and euro/american hysterics about its "rise" are chauvinist myopia, yeah of course. if youre saying chinese history and culture is interesting i also agree

>>2779252
> A civilizational state is a country that sees itself as the modern expression of an ancient, continuous civilization
< Literally every country ever

>>2780763
Not really. There haven't been a nordic civilization (nor there exists a "nordic" state) nor an *ancient* european civilization state…
Not every historical civilization has a single state (arab states) or a state at all (central American civilization) and not every nation has been part of a civilization

>>2780768
>European civilization state
European is the only reason that's true, France does see itself as a continuation of even gallo-romans tribes if we use the same logic of civilisation, just like China pretend it's all the different kingdoms and also the tribes that lived in the south at the same time

I guess it'll also be a return to tradition when the West slices them up and sells their SOEs for parts. Or maybe China will finally nut up who knows.

>>2780744
i can't bring myself to be an ultra anymore. i pick lesser evil on the world stage. china is better than anything else right now. until burgers collapse and do bolshevik revolution 2.0 i'm gonna simp for china. there's no time left to sit here and "ruthlessly criticize" those who are the least shit. it's called priorities

>>2781006
not gonna happen.

>>2780763
australia is not. the us is not. canada is not. new zealand is not. israel larps but isn't


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