It looks like the hysteria over Gabriel Rockhill's expose of CIA funded western marxism has hit Jacobin. Since Rockhill's book was published, he's been living rent free in the heads of critical theorists. A bourgeois Indian academic who lives in the US and considers China "sweatshop socialism" has made at least 20 FB posts about Rockhill over the past month. Katerina Kolozova, a "marxist" from FYROM who wrote an article where she said "real marxists" wanted the breakup of Yugoslavia because it was "fake socialism" and Monkeydonians were "real europeans" unlike "Russians and Ukrainians" also went into meltdown mode. The Jacobin article just ties it all together. The author says we need critical theory and western marxism more than we need another Stalin or Mao. But given how impotent western marxists have been to achieve any kind of revolutionary success, it seems that their main issue with Rockhill is that he accurately diagnoses them as hacks. None of the articles, op-eds, or posts about Rockhill's book actually try to refute the facts he presents (backed up by FOIA requests) but just defend bourgeois liberal democracy as superior to actually existing socialism. The Indian admitted to me he didn't even finish Rockhill's book, and one of my irl friends who's been flipping out about it has refused to even read it. If Rockhill is so wrong, why is it no one can actually refute his truth nukes?
130 posts and 7 image replies omitted.>>2788935Yeah China is such a failure that it’s the single most powerful country on earth and its communist party has more than 100 million members. Nothing like the rousing success story that was CHAZ!
>>2788937>still bringing up chaz in the big '26china only succeeds btw because it was more successful in its opportunism than the others, same with vietnam
>>2788942Opportunism is a funny way of saying mogging the ultra left by making capitalism serve the state as is the goal and purpose of the real movement, and I bring up CHAZ because it’s still the best example of anti-communist leftism in practice
>>2788946really? they mogged us so hard by simply being more effective at social corporatism than the stalinists and other assorted mls?
>>2788946China is a normal capitalist country, it’s about as socialist as France under De Gaulle, keep copying Singapore and pretending you’re special or different from Bernie Sanders who would also back the Nepalese monarchy and the Marcos regime against their local maoists
>>2788540>Or even worse, referring to his work for US intelligence during WW2 and denazification period, as if I am supposed to find something objectionable to that. That is a long-running funny thing the anti-Frankfurt guys do. But the Stalinized CPUSA which they think is based unlike the gay and fake new Left openly promoted members serving in the U.S. military at the time. The OSS was secret service, but as an anecdote, the actor who played Gen. Ripper in Dr. Strangelove parachuted into Yugoslavia during the war to link up with Tito's partisans while in the OSS and became attracted to communism for a short time as a result of that.
>>2788570>Ypu need proof that the left lib darling adorno, paid for by the bourgeois state in a bourgeoid university, whose works are promoted within bourgeois academia was "supported by the capitalist vlass"?Rockhill teaches at a private Catholic university (Villanova University) and went to a grande ecole in Paris where he studied under Derrida, Badiou and Balibar. Actually he might be right about a lot of left-wing intellectuals but if he's just engaging in moralistic browbeating about the leftist intellectual aristocracy, well
>>2788792>horkheimer supported the US war against communist Vietnam and academicoids will still piss and shit and puke themselves if you dare call some of these guys anti-communist or aligned with US imperialism lolHorkheimer yeah. That wouldn't describe Marcuse at all though. Adorno was giving talks about aesthetics or something idk
>>2788948>>2788951>communism is when no money or markets and everything magically grows on trees, anything less is le red fascism!I grow weary of leftoid talking points, come back when you have something that hasn’t been debunked endlessly. Or do we need to break out the Dengism Elder Scroll?
>>2788957>le dengism elder scrollforced meme, and also yeah communism is when there is no money, no state and no class society, we know this to be true, it isn't just when you've achieved a socialized capitalist economy, it's when you've moved beyond it to such a point that whatever is left is holding on only because it hasn't come their way yet, we are not even remotely near that
>>2788957China is a cynical social democracy, you’re cheering for the British against the Dutch in the 1700s
>>2788925It's the other way around. Things went south for AES in Europe precisely the moment when dipshits and traitors like Gorbachev, terminally contrarian anarchist Stirner fags and certain university students started "listening to feedback" of westerners who lived in the west, had no personal experience of life and economy under AES whatsoever but praised "critical theory" (of marxism), "environmentalism", "anti-authoritarianism", "leftism" and psychology etc. as some über sophisticated hyper intellectual superior philosophy to "outdated" marxism and "democracy" superior to a DOTP.
Unfortunately the oh so "totalitarian", "authoritarian" AES dictatorship underestimated the destructive potential of these mislead fools, listened to them and refused to roll over them with tanks.
>>2789010I'm sure if Gorbachev had just invaded France and Britain and yeeted on all those pomo leftoids we'd have global communism by now
>>2788972Whatever China is or is not, it's much better than what you westoid bourgeois libshits offer.
>>2788934Yeah, also gives off vibes of being hack like Parenti. "but anon you have to read the book" sorry I ain't loosing time studying "marxist leninists" who never have been in a party, walk the talk or fuck off
>>2789018Stalin should have went all the way to the atlantic
There is a distrubing lack of anti communist Adorno quotes, as of right now there is just proof he was a marxist
>But he took CIA money
Yeah, he did so willingly and willingly took money from American universities writing self admittedly bullshit paper with stastics and such.
I think many posters here confuse Adorno with Foucault
>>2789019>Ethnostate corporatist is better than libshit globohomo capitalismThis is objectively true. If any Western country implemented Chinese immigration and naturalization policies, they would be called Zionazis by the exact same people who dickride China
>>2789070 (me)
Chinese style corporatism, mercantilism and nationalist policies are inevitable in the West. They will come wrapped in fascist and/or nationalist symbology instead of communist symbology.
Western glowies use Leftist NGOs and "intellectuals" to weaken third world governments. Non-western glowies use Leftist influencers and online bots to weaken Western governments. In both cases, it's just glowies on both sides wearing communist skins to urge either side to implement policies that weaken either sides economies and societies.
>>2789082 (me, cont.)
And ultimately, no matter how ineffective this strategy is, the happy side-effect is that real communists are suppressed as the communist ideology is hijacked and raped and used as a parasite host by the leftist skinwalkers. So glowies on both sides will never stop using this strategy. This fact fundamentally explains all politics since WW2.
Most of theses intellectuals were socdem adjacent at best. Who cares.
>>2789149*if the soviet didn't like them
>>2788919if you spent your time in the west shitting on the only real communist alternative, yes you're objectively anti communist, now you fuck off lib
>>2788951imagine seriously believing de gaulle dirigisme with colonial empire characteristic was anywhere near PRC one party state with actual control of the economy and capitalist carefully kept away from political power
>>2789261>if you spent your time in the west shitting on the only real communist alternative, yes you're objectively anti communist, now you fuck off libif it were liberalism to criticize the soviet union for objectively being a failure (which was reasonably evident by the 70s) then even many communists would become liberals by this moronic definition
>>2788969>also yeah communism is when there is no money, no state and no class society<communism the real movement which abolishes the present state of things. The conditions of this movement result from the premises now in existencejust admit you're an anarchist and not a communist
>>2789264>then even many communists would become liberals and indeed, almost all the people who pretended to be communist in the west revealed themselves to be libs after soviet union fall and decline in popularity of communism. They only pretended as long as it was popular, but never actually believed in it or understood anything about it, it was a thin veil they wore to better attack actual communists.
>soviet union for objectively being a failure (which was reasonably evident by the 70sfor real, what kind of fucking slimey lib historical revisionist do you have to be to spout such fucking bullshit?
>>2789070>china>ethnostatewe're reaching glowie level that shouldnt even be possible
you're aware they have positive discrimination policies you retarded glowfuck?
>>2789265is the present state of things not class, money, the state?
>>2789272>they were just pretending bro they weren't ever communistsi'm pretty sure a lot of anti-ussr communists stayed communists after the USSR and its associated states fell, also pretending the ussr in the 70s wasn't beginning to show its weaknesses is fucking hilarious
>>2789277The “present state of things” that Marx refers to is the Anarchy of Production and the rise of Finance Capital, both systems that anarchists by definition defend
>>2789278??? anarchists don't "by definition" defend either of those things, he literally advocates abolishing class society precisely because it is an unnecessary system oppressing humanity and to free humanity from enslavement to social relations
>>2789276Almost no non-Chinese can become a citizen. Naturalization is practically non existent for the size of the country. There is very little immigration per capita. If any Western country implemented Chinese immigration and citizenship policies, they would be decried as Nazis. This is a fact.
>>2789282Anarchism is just fascism for people who don’t like borders, as fascism defends the present order so does anarchism again by definition because to end the Anarchy of Production is to end the basis for anarchist “theory”
>he literally advocates abolishing class societyHe advocates SUBLATING the present class society with a dictatorship of the proletariat, which by definition must be a class society. The “abolition” of class altogether is a utopian pipe dream that Marx and Engles debunked time and time again
>muh oppressionOkay liberal. Should the bourgeoisie not be oppressed? Should militant anti-communists be allowed to act freely? All civilizational states have preferential in groups and out groups, communism is not the exception but rather the perfection as the productive members of society seize control of the state
>free humanity from enslavement to social relationsLiberal moralism and abstract idealism, read The German Ideology rather than anarchist zines
>>2789283any claim china had to internationalism got eviscerated with the Gaza genocide and recently with the Strait of Hormuz.
>>2789292"Accumulate, accumulate! That is Moses and the prophets!"
>>2789289>Anarchism is fascismstopped reading there
>>2789289>The “abolition” of class altogether is a utopian pipe dream that Marx and Engles debunked time and time againare you trying to say that M&E argued that class will exist for all time?
>>2789378>Instead of the indefinite concluding phrase of the paragraph, "the elimination of all social and political inequality", it ought to have been said that with the abolition of class distinctions all social and political inequality arising from them would disappear of itself. wdhmbt
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1875/gotha/ch02.htm >>2788898>The quote itself merely concedes that Lenin did something right to achieve his goal and doesn't go into personal judgement about this goal.The "reply" to that:
>>2788907>So you think the quote is fake?>>2789278>The “present state of things” that Marx refers to is the Anarchy of Production and the rise of Finance Capital, both systems that anarchists by definition defend>>2789289 (same shitposter)
>The “abolition” of class altogether is a utopian pipe dream that Marx and Engles debunked time and time againProper mods would delete you people here and in real life as well.
>>2789405i think that guy's just really fucking stupid, not a shitposter
>>2789421>s just people being miseducated by the ACP. I could at least accept a productive forces argument but they will just shout SUBLATION at you but instead of saying a post-capitalist society will retain or even expand or reorganize its productive capacity, they just say class society exists forever but that isn't even sublating anything. They think a division of labor is the same thing as social class which is why they don't think baristas are workers.i can see that, and what do they even think sublation means? simply existing but "better"? it's kind of crazy really along with their whole misunderstanding of the division of labor (which indeed there might be a difference in the class interests of certain professions), what does the acp even believe?
>By the way Baidu Baike (which is heavily shaped by Chinese government guidelines) lists ideal-type communism as having the followingit seems pretty basic, the idea that supposed "communists" can reject this definition (which is pretty much agreed by everyone knowledgable of the subject, regardless of personal feelings) is really damn funny
>>2789086What is your point?
CTWG made two podcast episodes diving into Rockhill's
Who Paid The Pipers of Western Marxism, if anyone is interested to give it a listen.
https://podcastaddict.com/critique-of-the-podcast-form/episode/222111901>who's afraid of some old geezer
Lol pussies
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