/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>2799515
Viva Cristo

>>2799521
Okay

>Do you believe in the Bible?
I do not, but I like the catholic virtues I was taught by adults who hardly ever followed what they preached on my very christian childhood and I try to keep these alive in my daily life in spite of it.

I'm never going to heaven but that's
acceptable syncretism for a godless-commie-adjacent like me.

Once Saved Always Saved is retarded and anti-Biblical. There are always traitors like Judas, Solomon, Ahab, Ananias and Sapphira, etc.

I know Calvinists have this stupid cope where they try to get around this obvious problem by implying that actually those people weren't "truly saved" in the first place but it's just that - cope. There are countless examples in the Bible of people who start well and end terribly.

Lmao no, that's retarded

If you haven't read it, The Epic of Gilgamesh (2000 BCE) also describes the deluge, the ark and Noah.

>>2799578
>>2799515

where is all the evidence for this supposed flood? Genuine question, I cannot imagine the end of an ice age going so fucking fast it flashfloods everything, if this happened there has to be solid geological evidence for this, so where is it?

>>2799579
Don't most cultures have a flood myth?
Clearly, it is a remembrance of something.

>>2799565
>people who start well and end terribly
God's ways are not our ways. God loved Jacob and hated Esau.

>>2799583
they have a flood myth because floods are common, not because of a global flood happening

Is the Bible an historical document? No.
To me, it is a mythical document which is subject to hermeneutics, and so I still enjoy reading it and interpreting it, especially in comparison to other myths.

>>2799579
WRT specifically to the epic of gilgamesh and the mesopotamian flood myths, one theory is that they originated from the tigris and euphrates rivers overflowing and causing cities and pastures close to the riverbanks to flood to be destroyed, another is that the flood myth was a way for societies that had no grasp or concept of how geological change worked or how vast the time scale of evolution is to explain marine fossils found high above the sea level. it's probable it's a combination of all the above + multiple, independent, flood myths.

it's mentioned in the epic of gilgamesh, but the mesopotamian flood myth originates in the work of "atra-hasis", which includes the mesopotamian creation myth too, the flood and creation myth share a great deal of overlap with the abrahamic flood and creation myths. for example;
in "atra-hasis" man is created by the gods with clay and the blood of a slain god (whereas in the biblical creation myth, man is made from 'earth') to toil on behalf of the gods.
in a very abridged form, the flood myth from the same work goes like this; the mesopotamian god Enlil is frustrated by mankind because their over-population and noise keeps him from sleeping and so he sends forth, in order;
a plague, a drought, then famine, and then the great flood, that before he can launch, enki (the patron deity of atra-hasis and a proto-promethean figure) informs atra-hasis of the incoming flood and instructs him to forgo his possessions, to save living things, and build a boat "with a roof like Apsu", with upper and lower decks, with strong tackle, bitumen/pitch to seal the entrances of the boat, and an hourglass to count the 7 days of flood.
tl;dr it's all probably just flash floods along the euphrates and tigris.

>>2799595
The story of Adam and Eve is also based on the myth of Enki and Ninhursag:
https://www.gatewaystobabylon.com/myths/texts/retellings/enkininhur.htm

>>2799596
i don't think i've seen this before, thanks for sharing, comrade anon

>>2799579
The flood is described as being caused by groundwater and rain, so it would be a different process.

>>2799619
Doesn't sound like something where a physically impossible wooden boat would help

>>2799515
>Do you believe in the Bible?
I believe bibles exist yes. Do I believe every claim made within the bible is the word of God? No. Do I believe the bible is 100% false? No. What is the bible to me? A mixture of regional history, myth, legend, and religious polemics, none without bias.
>the rest of your post
Ok.

>>2799587
This. God I hate ancient aliens pseudo-archeology so fucking much bros.

>>2799595
Humans writing about disasters does not equal the occurrence of said specific super disaster though, if a text is your only proof, you don't have really any proof

>>2799583

why would that be a " remembrance" of something? It's obvious why humans would be inspired to write about floods, they do both real big damage and are also an essential part of agriculture, it's very poetic by it's nature. None of that means there was some cataclysmic superflood that left no traces, if there was a worldwide superflood <6000 years ago, we would find hard evidence all over the world but to my knowledge, we don't. Written stories are not proof, otherwise you might as well believe in elves and mordor.

>>2799583
Flood myths are mostly from the middle east, Rome didn't have a flood myth as an exemple even if the Greeks did. (Hindus and two north americans tribes also had them but it's likely unrelated, tbf with a lot of culture it's impossible to know due to lack of sources)
There are two likely explaination, they're not necessarly contradictory.
The oldest flood myths we have come from Mesopotamia, the land of the two rivers, so obviously floods were common, so the idea might have come from there.
Otherwise, the Persian gulf was lower during the Holocene, and was inhabited. There are archeological traces that shows traces of prehistorical sumerian pottery in Qatar and UAE. about 5000 years ago
It's not impossible the flood myths come from the flooding of the Persian gulf, with the survivors going north, to Sumerian lands, with a few going to the UAE and Qatar, the flooding would be memorble enough to be transferred into oral history, eventually becoming a mythological massive flood, became a part of babylonian mythology, spread troughout the middle east with the rise of the Babylonian and Assyrian empires. Eventually Jews (and the Greeks) integrate it into their myths. This sort of cultural transfer was extremly common at the time, even in the bible.

>>2799515
>Do you believe in the Bible?
I'm British and was raised Anglican, or Episcopalian I think it's called in the US.
Stopped believing at about 14 or 15 but was forced by parents to continue attending church until I could move out at 19.
Do I believe the Bible? I believe it's a work of mythology, I believe some of the events in it are likely inspired by historical events. The flood myth is common across middle eastern religions and may well be based on historical localised heavy flooding some 10,000 -20,000 years ago after the latest ice age.
Some events also clearly never happened. There is zero evidence that Jews were kept as slaves en masse in Egypt nor is is there any evidence that the Red Sea was parted, which if it occured we would expect to find evidence of.
Most events and individuals from the New Testament probably occured and existed, barring the supernatural elements.
The Christian Bible was also not compiled until centuries after Jesus died. Many of the books in the Bible weren't written until decades after Jesus' death.
Predestination seems morally unjustifiable, as does eternal damnation for not believing something without proof, when a God could have the power to make it clearly obvious he exists to all if he were real and so chose. And there's also the problem of evil. Not to mention Jesus states he would return before all the apostles died. It's curious Christianity didn't fizzle out when that prediction failed.
There's also so much insane stuff like the way God treats Job, the mauling of children by bears sent by God, God losing a battle to iron chariots, and the references to the divine council and Elohim which in the original Hebrew clearly implied at form of henotheism or polytheism.
Faith without works also strikes me as bizarre. It doesn't matter if someone commits the worst crimes imaginable to long as they're a true believer, but a good man who helps his community but has other beliefs with be tortured eternally? That's not how a good God would work.
I flirted with occultism, gnosticism, Buddhism a little in my 20s but never really believed in it.
Now I don't believe in religion, or a God. Unless you want to say the entire universe is God and all conscious beings are just fragments of it experiencing itself, and that everything that exists is interconnected and non-dual in nature.
In essence I accept Spinoza's God which could be interpreted as atheism or pantheism depending on your perspective.

>>2799565
Judas was the true warrior of light and Jesus's most loyal follower from the beginning to the end (he was not a follower of the Demiurge)

>>2799515
>Anti-Paul people are never goodfaith. They've never read the Bible thoroughly
Every pro-Paul "Christian" megachurch corporation pushes the bourgeois recuperation of Jesus's message. They have read their book thoroughly and have been subsequently transformed from humans into satanic liberal imperialists who dream of joining the Jeffrey Epstein class, who are delighted by Israeli AI antichrist finance capitalists burning children to death for their prophet/profit.
>They are the same people Jesus will say "I never knew you"
your cutesy Charlie Kirk liberal Zionist reading clubs will save you I'm sure. The hippie guy whose whole thing is feeding the homeless in Jerusalem loves baby killers!
>Romans is like Holy Water to a demon that is these people.
Ok satanist! When millennials hear Paul's rhetoric about olive trees they will immediately think about what you liberal Judeo-Christians did to olive trees in Palestine so you could build luxury real estate

>Anti-Paul critiques in Christian historiography—often termed Anti-Paulism—represent a long-standing tradition of questioning or rejecting the authority, teachings, and legitimacy of the Apostle Paul.
> These critiques argue that Paul distorted the original, simple message of Jesus into a complex, Gentile-oriented theology.
<Anti-Paul sentiments generally fall into several historical and thematic categories:
>1. Early Jewish-Christian Critiques (Ebionites)
<Apostasy Accusations: Early Jewish-Christian sects, such as the 2nd-century Ebionites, rejected Paul, viewing him as an apostate from the Mosaic Law.
<Usurper Theory: They believed Paul was a false apostle who "hijacked" the early Jesus movement, twisting Jesus’ teachings on the Law to appeal to Gentiles.
<Opposition to Jesus: These groups felt Paul’s "faith alone" doctrine directly contradicted the teachings of Jesus and James, which emphasized faith coupled with works of the law.
>2. Radical Pauline Distortions (19th-20th Century)
<"Founder of Christianity" Theory: Critics like Friedrich Nietzsche and, later, Leo Tolstoy argued that Paul, not Jesus, invented modern Christianity. They viewed Paul as a "corrupter" who introduced foreign dogmas—such as the divinity of Christ and atonement—that were absent in the historical Jesus's message.
<Roman/Greek Influence: Modern critics often argue that Paul was over-influenced by Greco-Roman philosophies, changing a Jewish apocalyptic message into a universalizing, Hellenistic religion.
>3. The "Two Gospels" Critique (Paul vs. Peter/James)
<Irreconcilable Differences: Some scholars and theologians argue that Paul’s gospel is fundamentally opposed to that of the Jerusalem apostles (Peter and James).
<Conflict in Acts: The confrontation between Paul and James in Acts 21, or Paul’s rebuke of Peter in Galatians 2, are interpreted as evidence of a deep, unresolved schism.
<Theological Misalignment: This view argues that Paul ignores the "historical Jesus" (his ministry, teaching, and ethics) in favor of a "celestial Christ" known only through visions.
>4. Ethical and Progressive Critiques
<Misogyny and Gender Roles: Paul is often criticized for his teachings on gender roles, particularly in 1 Corinthians 11 and 1 Timothy 2, which are seen as retrogressive compared to the surrounding culture and to the egalitarianism attributed to Jesus.
>Support for Oppressive Systems: Modern critics argue that Pauline passages, such as those in Ephesians and Colossians directing slaves to obey masters, have been used to justify slavery and authoritarian structures.
<Anti-LGBTQ+ Interpretations: Progressive critics often focus on Paul's "clobber verses" (e.g., Romans 1:26-27, 1 Cor 6:9) as distortions of Christian charity.
>5. Academic Skepticism
<Inauthentic Letters: Some scholars argue that large portions of the Pauline corpus (specifically the Pastorals—1 & 2 Timothy, Titus) are 2nd-century forgeries, reflecting a later, more institutionalized church rather than the historical Paul.
<Acts vs. Epistles: Critics often point out that the portrayal of Paul in the Book of Acts is historically unreliable and conflicts with Paul’s own autobiographical statements in his letters.

>>2799698
>Flood myths are mostly from the middle east
the stories of ancient Chinese anti-flood infrastructure engineers demonstrate that adaptation to climate change is baked into their culture, where western liberals have fascist exterminationism baked into theirs

>>2799682
Ancient Aliens is purest form history channel slop. I love it.

>>2800358
was meant for
>>2799685

>>2799565
Judas sacrificed more than Jesus, anyone can give up their life for their cause, Judas gave up going to heaven to fulfill Yahweh’s plan.

>>2800453
Judas was the real hero

>muh christ
Literal enemy of humanity, exacerbating our extinction by funneling money and human effort into the black hole death cult of american evangelism, which is what all christcuckery branches are converging into

Accept the light of Allah and become a real revolutionary instead or do the truly noble thing and become an atheist/materialist

>>2800453
Judas sold out Jesus for 30 pieces of silver

>>2800470
Without that evil deed no one gets saved, he sacrificed his immortal soul on those thirty pieces of silver to save humanity, Judas is the most loyal disciple, the only one with the stomach to do what Yahweh needed without question, but he doesn’t get rewarded for it like David.

>>2800472
Well, in the Book of John, Judas is described as being a vessel for the Devil in the act, and later repents (refunding his silver), and committing suicide. So, if its the Devil who sells out Jesus and Judas who repents, then perhaps he is saved. For example, in Revelation, the 12 disciples are described as the 12 pillars of the New Jerusalem, meaning that Judas, as one of the 12, must be preserved. However, in Acts, Matthias is elected to replace Judas, so was Matthias always the 12th disciple? It can hardly be so. We see the 11 brothers of Joseph in Genesis sell him to the Egyptians for 20 pieces of silver, by which Joseph becomes a great King - so Jesus relates to Joseph in this way, by being sent to death, yet rising as a great King. The 11 tribes are not judged so, but are redeemed from their original iniquities. The 12 tribes then reunite and give entrance upon Jacob/Israel.

So the Judas and Jesus story is very much like that of Joseph. Jesus also asks Simon Peter to stand down from attacking the Roman guards, he forgives Peter for denying Christ three times, and Pilate is forgiven for sending Christ to die, along with the multitude, for who Christ asks for their forgiveness. Clearly, Christ is willing the necessity of his own death. We also have the apocraphyl "Gospel of Judas" in which Jesus sees Judas as the most important disciple:
https://www.gospels.net/judas

>>2800469
islam has jesus as a prophet though…

>>2800489
That's why it's better to be an atheist at the end of the day

>>2800470
in a different world, judas would be seen as a based hero of entrepreneurship and hustling