how is argentines claims to the falklands in anyway less imperialistic then Britains?
the only argument i hear is that falklands is closer to argentine (which is a pretty weak argument ) or that it was claimed by spain once (like spanish imperialism/colonialism is better then british).
considering how argies mostly descends from europeans, where arguably just as bad as USA when it came too genociding and oppressing natives they are also a colonialist state.
so why do leftist anti-imperialists defend their retarded landclaim?
>how is argentines claims to the falklands in anyway less imperialistic then Britains?
the only argument i hear is that falklands is closer to argentine
That's actually false. Even going with a lukewarm liberal perspective the argument is that the territorial claims of colonial territories get grandfathered to newly decolonized states, in this case the Spanish Empire/Argentina. It is an ironclad principle in international law, one of the few that mostly holds. This is the same precedent under which the UK is currently being made to give up its sovereignity over Chagossia or why most decolonized states don't recognize the French claim over Mayotte.
Furthermore the Falklands quite literally are an actual colony, not a neo-colony but a colony. They don't have any representation even within the UK's bourgeois democratic institutions, they ar literally lorded over by some random British undersecretary. Meanwhile Argentina recognizes all Kelpers to be naturally born Argentine citizens in accordance with its laws. Indeed dissident Kelpers have participated and become representatives within Argentine institutions.
It doesn't matter, fuck britain, return the islands to argentina, throw all settlers into the sea.
>>2804692you can see how rabidly jingoisitic some of the users here get about these islands even for a left wing site
Because it's a question of vibes. Nobody really cares about Argentina except Argentinians, nobody cares about Falklanders except Argentinians and the Falklanders themselves, but winning the war was psychologically disastrous for Britain and a victory for the forces of reaction there. Thatcher was a terrible leader in any regard you care to think of, but she got Britain a military victory so she's completely colonized the national consciousness and now even Labour leaders want to LARP as her. It even got her off with surrendering Hong Kong, by any measure Britain's coolest then-colony and something that should psychologically humiliate any British rightoid… but no, they can cope because they've got a second outer hebridies off the coast of Argentina. Happy day!
Of course, you can do a counterfactual where Argentina's junta were able to parlay a victory into the same kind of sticking power, but again: who cares about Argentina? We live in the world where imbeciles post Thatcherslop to argue for evil, not Galtierislop.
>>2804694Do you support the American occupation of Guantanamo bay as well? What about the British occupation of the sovereign base areas on Cyprus?
>>2804694It's not about jingoism, that would imply I care about Argentina. I hate the UK
>>2804692you can't return something that was never theirs to begin with
if britain should give up falklands they should give the islands to uruguay just to piss the argies off. Uruguay would probably take better care of the land too, and treat the innhabitants better
>>2804698how is that anyway comparable? why doesn't the self determination/will of the falkland innhabitants matter?
>hurrdurr they are settler colonialiststhen argies are that too
>>2804689Britannia delenda est, I'll support any actions against the UK, Zimbabwe could be claiming East Anglia and I'd support their claim for all I care about.
>>2804691>They don't have any representation even within the UK's bourgeois democratic institutionsI don't think that's true now. They created a legislature for the Falklands (as a result of the war).
I think people should focus on British Empire's actual colonies (where actual people are being colonized which is what Marxists should use the term for) like Northern Ireland, Diego Garcia etc., rather than islands where the English are really more native to than England itself.
I wouldn't ever defend the UK if they went to war over it though due to revolutionary defeatism.
>>2804691It isn't a colony. A colony needs to have a colonized people. The word should have a specific meaning in Marxist circles or everyone will get confused.
>>2804709What do you mean by self-determination? There is no such thing as a nation of Falklanders. Do Americans on Guantanamo bay have self-determination?
>>2804725>There is no such thing as a nation of Falklanders. Do Americans on Guantanamo bay have self-determination?I think the Falkland Islanders actually consider themselves to be a "nation." The Americans in Guantanamo are all military.
>>2804717Can you give me the name of the British MP for Falklands that represents the Falklands on the national British level, you know the level that actually makes sovereign decisions on its behalf.
>>2804733Why do you love to lie so much? Half of the population on Guantanamo bay is non-military or civilian.
>>2804721>It isn't a colony. A colony needs to have a colonized people.Are you actually a leftist? Then this can't be real, like how can you use the same colonial arguments again and again? There were no people here was used to establish thousands of colonies, settlements and forts the world over, the fuck.
I think there is nothing more blackpilling than watching actual self-described Western leftists bending themselves into pretzels to justify literal old-style colonialism, no not neo-colonialism or semi-colonialism but supporting the existence of an actual forward naval base of the British empire. This is even worse than being a liberal zionist.
>>2804703Same arguments are being used to justify the British occupation of Diego Garcia and British sovereign base area. Shaking my head at this level of colonial apologism.
>>2804747Statehood and nationhood are two different things. Stalin agrees with me.
>>2804748Aren't those contractors for the military though. They're not sheep farmers who have been there for seven generations.
Allow me to lay out a somewhat disorganised collection of facts:
The islands have never been Argentinian. The only claim Argentina has is proximity.
Which is a joke in itself given that Argentina is 500 miles / 800km away. Buenos Aires itself is 1300 miles / 2100 km away.
There were no natives on the island before Britain arrived. The Native Americans never knew the islands existed.
Meanwhile Britain discovered the islands, settled them, developed them.
Making the Kelpers - the descendents of Scottish, and Welsh whalers and Chilean gauchos, the first and native people of the islands.
On the matter of self determination, the Kelpers have repeatedly been granted votes on their status as a UK territory, and have repeatedly voted - by 99% - in favour of remaining a largely autonomous part of the UK.
Argentina is a settler-colonialist state consisting primarily of Europeans of Spanish and Italian heritage. They have a long, cruel and bloody history of imperialist expansion and genocide. In this way they are no different to the US, UK, or any other colonial power.
After independence from Spain the Argentinians invaded Patagonia, which at the time was fully independent and consisted of the nations and tribes of multiple indigenous Native American peoples.
The Argentinians genocided these people and stole there lands.
After WW2 over 33,000 German Nazis and 380,000 Italian fascists fled Europe for Argentina.
Following this in an era of fascist rule and economic crisis in the 1970s the Argentine government, for the very first time, invented a claim to the islands to distract from domestic economic woes.
The Argentinian imperialist military murdered 3 civilians in cold blood during the invasion.
Historically, a small number of Chilean gauchos moved to the island and mixed and integrated with the local population. Unlike the Chileans, no Argentinians historically ever once cared to migrate to or investigate the islands before 1970.
Which in my opinion, if we were forced to grant the islands to a Latin nation, gives Chile a much stronger claim than Argentina, given some Chileans actually settled the islands at some point historically.
The Argentinian claim is nothing more that a fascistic, imperialist call for settled-colonialism to distract from domestic issues.
The fact that a few ignorant "destroy the west at all costs" chronically online third-worldists and their digital nomad God-King BE cry about how they want to kill the islanders doesn't change the fact the only anti-imperialist position is to support the desires of the native population, which is to remain free from Argentinian colonisation.
>>2804750Are you actually intellectually disabled?
When people say "there were no people here" in regards to the colonisation of America, Africa, Australia, Palestine, etc it's a well known lie to justify taking land from indigenous peoples.
On the Falklands it's meant entirely literally. Like, there literally were zero human beings. No human being had ever in history visited the islands before the Brits did. It was devoid of any life beside penguin.
Are you trying to suggest it's somehow morally reprehensible to migrate to an island where no human being has ever in history ever been before?
>>2804760The falklands serve as an outpost of British influence far beyond the mainland, it's a tool of colonialism is that way. It's just like those billions of small island France own, or even the Channel Islands. (there also were people living there before the British arrived)
Las Malvinas son Paraguayas
>>2804756>Statehood and nationhood are two different things. Stalin agrees with me.So you are conceding to me and agreeing that the Falklands is a colony. Good.
>Aren't those contractors for the military though. They're not sheep farmers who have been there for seven generations.Caught in a lie and immediately shifting the goal post. Nice.
I am personally not really a fan of Argentineans myself but to support the British Empire out of spite is crazy.
>>2804759This is already wrong from the very beginning because the Argentinean claim was grandfathered via the Spanish empire which was also recognized by the French.
Under the legal principle of uti possidetis iuris the islands are Argentinean. Half of the states on the planet don't recognize the British claim because of this.
>>2804766>Caught in a lie and immediately shifting the goal post. Nice.Death Star contractors
>>2804721>It isn't a colony. A colony needs to have a colonized people.You're not a marxist. you're not even on the left. makes sense why you say you're a Nationalist now, a British nationalist who clings to the crown and the empire
>>2804770Also, after the British left in the 1770s, the argentines took the island and inhabited the place, when britain came back, they kicked out a bunch of the people there.
>>2804770>Under the legal principle of uti possidetis iuris the islands are Argentineanexactly. crazy how nobody seems to understand this
>>2804760if a communist south america is the goal, then the Falklands need to transfer away from the british imperialists for the sole fact that it'll inevitably be used as a landing strip by the Yankees to attack revolutionary forces on the mainland. you are an imperialist collaborator
>Giving it to zionist Milei regime
Nah, give it to Uruguay or Brazil
>>2804785brazil is boutta elect a bolsonaro and uruguay has cow fraud so
>>2804770>>2804780Why do you believe the Spanish claim passes on legally to Argentina? Just because the Spanish and Argentines say so?
Why would that trump the British claim, when no Argentinian had ever even so much as visited the islands, meanwhile British people discovered them and were living on them?
Argentina can claim it owns Taiwan or Paris or the Moon for all I care, doesn't make it legitimate. The Spanish claim was likewise equally illegitimate since Spain never had a permanent settlement on the islands.
And don't forget that the claim you say Spain gave to Argentina also states all of the Southern half of Latin America is all rightful Argentinian territory and therefore Argentina should by rights invade and conquer Bolivia, Paraguay, Uruguay and Chile in as much as they should also invade the Falklands. Such is the ridiculous nature of it.
Do you think the massive scale Argentinian genocide of the Native Americans of Patagonia was also justified by uti possidetis iuris?
And if this Argentine claim is so valid, why didn't they care about it until 1970 when a jingoistic fascist regime used it to distract from domestic problems?
Why did no Argentinian bother to move to the islands before then?
>>2804778>Also, after the British left in the 1770s, the argentines took the island and inhabited the placeThis is a straightforward lie and historical revisionism. There was no such thing as an Argentinian state back then. There was never a permanent settlement on the islands until the Brits established one in the 1830s.
>>2804783You want the literal descendents of Nazi and Fascist war criminals to invade and pillage and colonise an island, stealing it from the native inhabitants.
Milei is by his own words the most Zionist world leader. Argentina has a much, much closer relationship and ideological alignment with the US than the UK currently does.
You don't think Argentina and Milei would turn the Falklands into a US military base or concentration camp? Seriously?
Ask yourself why Trump and MAGA want Argentina to have the island. Please.
>>2804790Okay you have no rebuttal for the facts. I accept your concession. The islands will remain free from literally ideologically fascist Argentine imperialists in any case.
It's probably one of the biggest nothingburgers in "decolonization" discourse. The Falklands are a pile of rocks in the middle of nowhere that literally had nobody living there until the British came. The Argies didn't give a shit about it until their military dictatorship needed some kind of convenient distraction from their crumbling economy, and the British didn't give a shit about it until Thatcher saw waging a "war" on Argentina would boost her popularity. All this shit where people try to cite colonial law from 200 years ago to justify such and such nation's possession of an irrelevant bunch of rocks is just fucking stupid.
Tell you what, if Argentina goes socialist (lol, lmao) then you guys can start lobbying for control of the Falklands. Until then this is quite literally le interimperialist conflict as prophesized by leftcom posters
>>2804793>the imperialists gangsters led by thatcher don't actually care about the colonies they use to suppress the world they rape exploityou are imperial apologist. you run defense for global extraction. you will be boiled.
>>2804788Alright "rio de la plata" then
When the British left in 1774, the colony of Rio de la plata (litterally the predecessor of Argentina) takes over all of the islands (Britain having secretly agreed with spain that they'd leave the island) and in 1790, Britain concedes that Spain has the right to the islands. Afterwards the rio de la plata sends settlers on the island.
When Argentina delcares independance, the UK recognized their right to the islands.
Vernet, a colonialist acting on his own takes over the islands, attacks the US's navy in 1826, the US takes over the island afterwards Argentina sends an expediction to save its settlers, but the expediction fails in 1832
In 1833, britain takes control of the islands again, after a gang of Gauchos attack the British settlers, they kick out the argentine civilians.
engloids will tell you with a straight face their global empire that exports more financial services than the Yankees are somehow less evil and backwards than a third world nation they've raping and extracting trillions from for hundreds of years. makes you think
>>2804793>It's probably one of the biggest nothingburgers in "decolonization" discourse.The debate about it is boring slop stuff. A few things I found interesting around it though was land reform in the Falklands after the war. A lot of the land had been owned by absentee landlords (which could also be companies, also one of them was based in Argentina apparently, oddly enough).
The Argentinian brass were also getting into crazy geopolitics stuff in the years leading up to the war. They were also an ally with South Africa:
https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2017-11-21-declassified-apartheid-profits-the-triple-coup/ A lot of Britophobia ITT
>>2804797>third world nationBe careful, the Argentinians might hear you say that.
>>2804806what, are argies sensitive? periphery then
>>2804788>Why do you believe the Spanish claim passes on legally to Argentina? Just because the Spanish and Argentines say so?No, that's literally what contemporary international law and precedent says. I gave you the exact legal principle (uti possidetis iuris) and recent precedence (Chagossia) you are so wrong, you are not only wrong within a Marxist framework because also within a liberal one. Lmao, so the only thing you can do is claiming that British subjects are somehow special and that for some reason these things don't apply to them (which is why I have been comparing your stance to zionism).
>>2804784Exactly, with respect to the Falklands Argentina is not a colonial power.
>>2804793How about you shut the fuck up and stick your apologism of Western military bases occupying sovereign territory of post-colonial states up your ass, you fucking zionist.
Once again we see the “anti-imperialism” of the Golden Billion end the moment the feefees of their precious genocidal Anglos are threatened. Because fundamentally none of you are communists, you are at most woke Strasserists who think that the rape and exploitation of the periphery, Argentina included, is totally worth it in exchange for your endless supply of treats and government gibs
>>2804811Brother Argentina is white as hell. It's some other secret fourth thing idk
>>2804798>I was utterly btfo'd and exposed for deliberately lying so you see the issue ar hand doesn't really matterCan it get more bad faith than this? Why don't you fuck off back to sharty you shitty troll
>>2804837What's up with you people using racial strawmen to justify colonialism whenever you lose the argument?
>>2804837Russians are “white” too, should they be victims of genocide too? It’s almost like “white” as a category was deliberately invented to conflate the perpetrators of imperialism with its greatest victims
>>2804835Correctly put. Colonies are bad except the current ones. War is bad except the current one. This is how these people operate.
>>2804840Calm down nerd
>>2804841To your first question: yes
>>2804846At least you’re honest about being no different than the average NSDAP member, unlike most yanks who have to be pushed before acknowledging it. Unfortunately that is your only good personality trait, and it will not save you
>>2804848See you on the battlefield, jk, gonna kill you with an automated drone as climate drives you to my border and I fight on the defensive (ie inherently advantageous position)
>>2804849I’m eager to see how your toys fair against Chinese and Russian nukes
>>2804837Irish are white, doesn't make them any less of a victim of British imperialism
>>2804853Not a single nuke will ever be dropped, you will flee to the border wall with automated guns and die, have fun
>>2804863You realize the gay nazi thing is a joke right?
>>2804864He's said many times he isn't a marxist, merely a stupid lib that likes to hang out here for some reason
>>2804867I meant the flag, and what’s the problem? Marx wasn’t a marxist either, this site allows anarchists and nationalists and social democrats too
>>2804868>Marx wasn’t a marxist either<therefore naziflagger is a dyed in the wool marxist that needs to be listened toretard
>>2804867interesting how one of the best posters on the entire site isn't a marxist
>>2804868It shouldn’t allow anarkkkists or any other firstoid degeneracy that appropriates Marxism, but as our mods are firstoid anarkkkists themselves there’s little we can do. Old BO’s only mistake was not expanding the scope of his purges
>>2804871>caring this much about ideological labelsBroken
>>2804873Come and take my playstation then
>>2804874>I love hanging out with and listening to nazis they have so many interesting things to sayMaybe libpol.org would be more ur speed
>>2804874I’m neither a small child nor developmentally disabled, so I have no need for your vidya gaem zoomy zoom slop of the week
>>2804877The truth is the truth no matter who happens to be speaking it
>>2804879Posting here is far more sloppy than any video game, playing Pokemon would make you better at problem solving than having the same stale faux debate here for the 1000th time
>>2804880>my truthfalse consciousness. Read Marx.
>>2804882There is no “debate” to be had, British colonization of the Malvinas is illegal and inherently imperialist and should be opposed along with any other form of imperialism. It really is that simple
>>2804752doesnt surprise me, for some reason western libs have this one sided beef with argentina, not sure where does it come from
>>2804884THE truth, not MY truth you fucking idiot
Make English an official language in Argentina, problem solved
>>2804886Too many world cup titles
>>2804886it is european brainrot. you'd be hard pressed to find americans justifying their holdings on Jarvis Island, Howland Island, Baker Island, and Kingman Reef by saying they were 'previously uninhabited'
>>2804886Same as with Russia, libs feel genocidal rage towards any country in the imperial periphery who gets too uppity. Don’t be surprised if you see westoids funding “Patagonian freedom fighters” the next time a Dem takes office
>>2804887Liberalism by its very nature of being based in moral relativism doesn’t believe in universal truth, therefore any “truth” you tell is just vibes you’ve deluded yourself into believing are facts
>>2804887Libspeak. You are a liberal. Read Marx.
>>2804891>>2804892More liberal derangement syndrome, I see.
>>2804892Don’t care, suck my dick
>>2804891Lick my nuts
>gaynazi glazers exposed as british libtards
good stuff
>>2804871I never said anyone should listen to me, I think people should think for themselves because otherwise someone else will do your thinking for you. Also I think it's at least somewhat more honest to be like I'm a stupid gay ass lib. If I were a professor who really knew Marx front to back then I could get away with it. Also most Marxists who you come across online are probably vulgar Marxists at best.
Also there are perks to hanging out because leftypol is right about some things that everybody else is wrong about, and if I didn't hang out here then I would be somewhere else like Reddit surrounded by liberals who'd eventually ban me for doing something like making fun of British expats getting blown up by Iranian drones in Dubai.
>>2804918What I'm surprised by honestly is *how* you're not a marxist. Like are you just saying that because most marxists online are fucking annoying? Or is it more of a specific disagreement? Cuz I personally think marx allowed for much more room and freedom of thought than most losers on the internet realize.
>>2804776>>2804750Marxism understands colonialism as a social relationship, wherein the colonial power subjugates an indigenous population and exploits them, then reinforces this exploitation through superstructural means like racism and other ideological justifications. There is no colonial relationship at play between the original inhabitants of the Malvinas (who are British) and the British government. Communism is about socioeconomic relations between people, not spooky idealist nonsense about which barren windswept rocks belong to which reactionary bourgeois regime. The conflict of the Falklands is a nothingburger from a Marxist perspective, even taking the question of Western imperialism into account. Argentina is a neo-colonial puppet of the US, so whether the islands are rules from London or Buenos Aires makes zero difference from the perspective of global class struggle. If Argentina were to become a socialist or at least a progressive country, this would change things, but if you think handing the islands to Millei would be a victory for socialism you're a fool.
>>2804933Yeah it's supposed to be a critical method. For me I think it's more just the signifiers around it and online Marxists adopting it as a dogmatic / closed worldview ideology. I've been influenced by Marxism and I think it's important.
If the guy with the Nazi flag isn't a Nazi and just a liberal then why does this person take the most reactionary stance on every issue and even doubles down when proven incorrect within the liberal framework, like on the issue where according liberal international law the Argentine claim to the Falklands is valid? It's like people here pretend 2016 never happened. Ironic fascism is still fascism, you know. Totally not sus behavior to keep them tabs on the 'Online Marxists'.
>Argentina is a neo-colonial puppet of the US
And the US unlike Britain has been steadily retreating from imperialism for the last year and a half, Zionist incursion in Iran notwithstanding, so even by your ridiculous cope Argentina regaining control of the Malvinas is objectively progressive to the aims of multipolarity and therefore Marxism Leninism
>>2804940>Marxism understands colonialism as a social relationship, wherein the colonial power subjugates an indigenous population and exploits them, then reinforces this exploitation through superstructural means like racism and other ideological justifications. There is no colonial relationship at play between the original inhabitants of the Malvinas (who are British) and the British government.There is and has been a colonial relationship between Britain and Argentina (which the Falklands is part of) you fucking idiot, famously known as the 'Invisible Empire' .
OF COURSE, leftypol's resident Canadian has to adopt the most dogshit apologist opinion towards British colonialism in Latin America.
>>2804947>And the US unlike Britain has been steadily retreating from imperialism for the last year and a halfThey tried to annihilate Iran last month and could resume fighting at any moment. The month before that they attacked Venezuela. A short while ago Trump came out and said they're going to conquer Cuba. The US is getting more aggressive, not less, and the current Argentine government is bending over backwards to show what loyal vessels they are.
>Zionist incursion in Iran notwithstandingLmao sure Anon. The US is getting less imperialist as long as you just don't count all the imperialist stuff they've done.
>so even by your ridiculous cope Argentina regaining control of the Malvinas is objectively progressive to the aims of multipolarityWhat's your reasoning for this? Argentina's government is vocally and aggressively against multipolarity and pro-US hegemony.
>>2804949>There is and has been a colonial relationship between Britain and ArgentinaThere's also a colonial relationship between Argentina and the US, which the current Argentine government is in favour of and supports. So how would giving them the islands undermine imperialism in any way? It's just a transfer of barren rocks from one US vassal to another.
>>2804951>There's also a colonial relationship between Argentina and the US, which the current Argentine government is in favour of and supports.But the US doesn't have a fucking military base on sovereign Argentine soil like the UK you fucking retard. The mind of the Western leftist is simply amazing. Military occupation, monopolist economic control of trade and control of mining all turn into 'spooks' when it is convenient for them.
>>2804940Do the Falklands use the great british pound? No? Then they exist as an export market and tax avoidance hub with active military bases. The falklands are to Argentina (and Latam in general) as what Israel is to the Middle East and Taiwan is to China. They exist to serve the same functions. When rubber meets the road the Falklands will be transformed into a cancerous tumor on the periphery so its important that be excised now rather than later
>>2804940>If Argentina were to become a socialist or at least a progressive country, this would change things, but if you think handing the islands to Millei would be a victory for socialism you're a fool.its funny you call out idealism in the same breath you make it all about the current head of state being le bad lol, most likely some leftoid "progressive" will win the next presidential election, if the islands get into the hands of the argentinian state right now it makes zero difference
>>2804952>But the US doesn't have a fucking military base on sovereign Argentine soil like the UK you fucking retardDo you think Millei would really be an obstacle to that if the Americans pushed for it? There's one simple question that resolves this issue. Is Argentina a US vassal or not? If the answer is yes (which it obviously is) then how does transferring the islands weaken US imperialism in any way? To be clear here I'm not saying the islands should remain British, I'm saying it makes zero difference from a tangible, practical perspective. Under either state they would still remain available as a base for Western imperialism, Western companies would still have access to whatever resources they might hold, Western influence in the region would remain identical.
>>2804954Pretty much lmao. The Western leftist exposes their obsession with electoralism. This is the equivalent of arguing that Gitmo doesn't need to be returned once Bernie wins.
>>2804954>most likely some leftoid "progressive" will win the next presidential electionAnd do you think such a government will alter Argentina's neo-colonial status?
>>2804955How old are you and why do you think Miliei is going to rule Argentina for the next 200 years? Why do you define what is and isn't tangible within the framework of electoral politics and the length of electoral mandates?
>>2804953>The falklands are to Argentina (and Latam in general) as what Israel is to the Middle East and Taiwan is to ChinaIf Israel was brought under the control of Jordan, or Taiwan brought under the control of Japan, would this significantly weaken US influence or presence in those regions?
>>2804955>Is Argentina a US vassal or not? not any more than the british, who operate a global empire. where is argentinas empire? they are chained with no chains on others.
>>2804958When Gavin Newsome wins the presidency in 2028 with explicit support from the western left Argentina will be much more of a “neo-colony” as imperialism kicks into high gear again, but then you already know that
>>2804960Refer to
>>2804960I was mentioning Millei because he's the current president, and even if he loses the next election I'm highly skeptical that whoever replaces him would overturn Argentina's vassal status. However I already said that if the political situation changes in Argentina (i.e. they elect a government that's serious about anti-imperialism and national sovereignty) that would radically change the political calculus. However the question is moot until that happens.
>>2804959What part do you not understand here? This person has exposed themselves as a bafoon who thinks changing electoral governments are more relevant than long-term territorial concessions. They are a fucking retard. Nation states don't change their borders as much as electoral democracies change their governments. This is peak electoral brainrot.
>>2804961>If Israel was brought under the control of Jordan, or Taiwan brought under the control of Japan, would this significantly weaken US influence or presence in those regions?Jordan taking control of Israel and Japan taking Taiwan would be a result of US influence weakening in the reason, it won't ever be the cause of it, in both cases, because america is chief imperialist, this would be historically progressive
>>2804965'Decolonization only matters if the correct electoral government happens to be in charge'
This is just pure stupidity.
>>2804969I'm saying that unless Argentina stops being a US satellite then the transfer of the islands wouldn't be decolonization in any meaningful sense. It wouldn't do anything to free Argentina from colonial domination because the government is a collaborator with this domination.
>>2804970Who gives a shit about what happens in Latin America? It’s under the jurisdiction of the USA, and as long as their empire keeps declining, which it is, they can play with their toys while the anti-imperialist nations of the world do things that matter like kicking out the Israelis and hohols
>>2804972>Who gives a shit about what happens in Latin America?All the people ITT who think that it's absolutely imperative that a bunch of barren rocks be handed over from imperialist puppet #1 to imperialist puppet #2.
>>2804971And again, America is withdrawing from imperialism. Even if you factor in the Iran conflict Israel forced Trump to undertake and which he’s deliberately using the bare minimum effort on that pales in comparison to the Obama and Biden regimes explicitly endorsed by the western left which willingly and eagerly supported genocide in Libya, Malorussia, and Gaza. But again you already knew that
>>2804974So British imperialism is not just currently extant, but stronger than US imperialism, got it
>>2804973>imperialist puppet #2periphery, actually
>>2804973Well, if it doesn't matter in the end you wouldn't care if Argentina decided to invade the islands tomorrow, yes?
>>2804973British military bases being dismantled is a good thing for the entire world, an American military base being set up in its place would at worst only negatively impact Latin America, and that’s assuming your hysterical hypothetical comes to pass. Maybe with a Newsome presidency your dreams of a colonized Argentina can come true and exist in tandem with the genocide of Arabs and Iranians!
>>2804975Always has been, and British imperialism in turn has just been an extension of Zionism since 1815, to which America was also completely beholden to until Trump
>>2804974>America is withdrawing from imperialismNo it isn't and you're retarded if you think this. They've conducted military attacks against two countries in the last several months. Before that they helped topple Syria, and helped Israel carry out a genocide. Even if you ignore all this, imperialism isn't something a country can "withdraw from" because it's not a policy but an economic system. The US cannot withdraw from imperialism anymore than it can withdraw from capitalism, ie the end of US imperialism presupposes a change in its mode of production, or the collapse of the country.
>>2804978>an American military base being set up in its place would at worst only negatively impact Latin AmericaThe US is a global empire, strengthening it anywhere strengthens it everywhere. But again, it's a moot point since both Britain and Argentina are US satellites. Transferring the islands would neither strengthen nor weaken US imperialism.
>>2804977That's correct. The outcome of such a conflict would have zero significance for global class struggle or anti-imperialism. It simply doesn't matter.
>>2804981>That's correct. The outcome of such a conflict would have zero significance for global class struggle or anti-imperialism. It simply doesn't matter.Ok great. Genocide all Kelpers immediately.
>>2804978>Maybe with a Newsome presidency your dreams of a colonized Argentina can come true Do you unironicallt believe that Argentina isn't already colonized?
>>2804979???
>>2804967it wouldn't matter since it's an otherwise irrelevant island
>>2804989An irrelevant island a nuclear super power felt the need to go to war for and threatened to nuke a capital with 10 million people for and whose deep sea mining rights are currently being sold off to Israeli companies.
>>2804985Idk what you think that graph is showing, but it's not showing which countries are the strongest empires. It's saying which ones extract the largest superprofits per person. It has nothing to do with which country is the largest architect and enforcer of imperialism. Unless of course you think that Swedish imperialism is the greatest threat in the world today.
>>2804989I take it you’re unfamiliar with the legacy of Nathaniel Rothschild, whose descendants still guide Atlanticist imperialism. Let me give you a quick rundown, in 1815 the battle of Waterloo was being fought and the victor was uncertain. When the battle came to a conclusion, the initial currier was an agent of Nathaniel and told everyone that England lost the battle and occupation by France was imminent. In a panic people sold their stocks, dropping the prices to basically pennies, from which Nathaniel Rothschild swooped in and bought it all back for nearly nothing. To this day the UK and indeed most countries with a Rothschild central bank are STILL paying off the Rothschild War Debt
>>2804995This guy won't be in power in 3 years. Please keep your electoralist brainrot to yourself.
>>2804986Figures you’re some #LandBack faggot, you always find a way to hold reactionary views Marx mogged over a century and a half ago
>>2804998And will the next government overturn Argentina's status as a US satellite? If it does then I'll become firmly pro-Argentine on this question. Until then it simply doesn't matter.
>>2804999I was talking about how Argentina's government is and always has been composed of pro-US compradors that actively facilitates their neo-colonial status. I wasn't referring to the Indigenous population of Argentina.
>>2805002Hey that’s not exactly true, the US has overthrown Peronist governments in Argentina more than once
>>2805009You are talking to someone who didn't even know that Argentina was colonized by the British.
>>2805019Oh he knows and he thinks it’s a good thing. This is the same guy who willingly signed up to participate in the genocidal “war on terror” after all
>>2805026Maybe try not being a terrorist
>>2805019Argentina is colonized by the US to a far greater extent than by Britain. Moreover Britain itself is a vassal of the US once again making the whole issue moot. You guys still haven't presented a coherent counterargument to this beyond the blatantly ridiculous assertion that the US is "withdrawing from" imperialism.
The struggle that the Emir of Afghanistan is waging for the independence of Afghanistan is objectively a revolutionary struggle, despite the monarchist views of the Emir and his associates, for it weakens, disintegrates and undermines imperialism
In Brazil there now reigns a semifascist regime that every revolutionary can only view with hatred. Let us assume, however, that on the morrow England enters into a military conflict with Brazil. I ask you on whose side of the conflict will the working class be? I will answer for myself personally—in this case I will be on the side of ‘fascist’ Brazil against ‘democratic’ Great Britain. Why? Because in the conflict between them it will not be a question of democracy or fascism. If England should be victorious, she will put another fascist in Rio de Janeiro and will place double chains on Brazil. If Brazil on the contrary should be victorious, it will give a mighty impulse to national and democratic consciousness of the country and will lead to the overthrow of the Vargas dictatorship. The defeat of England will at the same time deliver a blow to British imperialism and will give an impulse to the revolutionary movement of the British proletariat. Truly, one must have an empty head to reduce world antagonisms and military conflicts to the struggle between fascism and democracy. Under all masks one must know how to distinguish exploiters, slave-owners, and robbers!”
>>2805038>Argentina is colonized by the US to a far greater extent than by Britain. Moreover Britain itself is a vassal of the US once again making the whole issue moot.I am talking about the concrete and historical colonization of Argentina by the British empire following its independence, not the current state of affairs. There were two centuries between then and now you know?
>>2805041Is the Argentine government waging a struggle to free themselves from US neo-colonialism?
>>2805044>not the current state of affairsOkay well we live in the present, where Argentina is a colony of the US and Britain is a satellite of the US. Maybe focus on that and not a non-existent state of affairs from 200 years ago.
>>2805042>If England should be victorious, she will put another fascist in Rio de Janeiro and will place double chains on BrazilFunny you'd use this quote since Argentina lost the 1982 war and it led to the collapse of their CIA-installed fascist government and the return of bourgeois democracy.
"If you squint a bit, this is a social arrangement that bears more than a superficial resemblance to that of the Gulf states, without the exploitation. The British-descended islanders form an elite who staff the government, farm and administer the lucrative industries. Migrants then provide the service sector and hospitality workforce."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/04/07/falklands-islands-turning-next-dubai/Falklands is a mini settler colony, what different is it other than Israel, or South Africa or Rhodsia. Replace the natives with migrant workers, many who are from Latin America anyhow and/or the Carribean (some southern Africa). The British settlers form a class of administrators within government and owners of major industries.
>>2805041>>2805042Libtards will say these scenarios are impossible to imagine and will try to obscure the point with marxist concepts they don't understand
>>2805051The Argentine government has been clear that it would grant the British residents if the islands Argentine citizenship and allow them to stay. In all likelihood it would maintain the relations described here. Why would they have any interest in overturning it?
>>2805051yeah but british imperialism good, oppressed nations bad
>>2805060There is no such thing as British imperialism because Britain is not an independent country. Its a vassal of the US like Argentina, a relationship that would not be changed by gaining control of some rocks.
>>2805063>There is no such thing as British imperialism Bwahahah western 'marxists' can't help but expose themselves can they
>>2805048You were incorrectly claiming that Argentina, including the Falklands never really were British colonies and that its colonial status.
>>2805057This is also incorrect. Kelpers already are considered to be Argentine citizens, right now. They don't need to be granted citizenship. They have full civic rights, including voting rights.
The falklands is important to British Imperialism for a few reasons:
Firstly, the island and surrounding area has organic livestock like fish, and that of natural resources to explore and extract. Ex-colonies or neo-colonies in Latin America like Guyana are similar, and such energy industries dominated by British multinational corporations. In fact over Venezueland land claims a few years ago, British warships were sent to protect imperial and corporate interests.
Secondly, relative to the need to maintain (even if weakened) Britain's imperial position in the world. There is an royal airforce base for projecting military power in the region, just like other colonies in other regions host royal airforce bases, some being used right now by the US against Iran.
Thirdly, in a a cultural or psychological sense, the mindset of imperial superiority continues. Just as Britain is a modern imperial power, she also looks back to her past and holds it in high regards, keep the territories to continue its legacy, those who govern her share this same view that these foreign lands belong to the white man.
>>2805063Even after Breton Woods, Britain had independent imperial interests. So long as there is a British monolopy bourgeoisie there will be British imperialist ambition.
>>2805066How many British bases are on American soil?
>>2805069If that were true then the multipolarist argument would actually be for British sovereignty of the islands since the strengthening of an independent British imperialism would act as a counterweight to unipolar US hegemony, of which Argentina is a loyal servant.
>>2805063Sure imperialism as a system is a joint bloc between the western powers and their historical settler colonies, and sattelite states, or NATO+, the triad, the west, whatever you want to call it. I disagree Britain is simply just a vasaal, but the a joint co conspirator as second tier imperialists with their own interests alongside the prime leader and fainting hegemon (soon to be fucked by BASED China and BRICS): America.
Now yes, Britain is an imperialist power.
>>2805071>but the a joint co conspirator as second tier imperialists with their own interests alongside the prime leader and fainting hegemon (soon to be fucked by BASED China and BRICS): AmericaSo then what's the argument for transferring the islands from an independent potential rival of the US to a loyal pawn?
>>2805070The highest form of imperialism is economic, which the UK perfected and chained the rest of the world to its financial services like insurance. Have you tried reading Lenin?
>>2805075>The highest form of imperialism is economicYes and the US, not Britain, is the world centre of finance capital. Britain isn't even the largest imperialist power in Europe.
>>2805070Britain has many of its own military bases around the world. Continues to help it's children like Israel, especially militarily and intelligence wise, or projects where it wants new markets and new borders against enemies i.e. using Ukraine. Britain has a massive grip on finance and banking on this earth, a serious blood sucker, aiding in the extraction of value from the periphery to the core. Oh huge multinationals with huge foreign investment from exploiting workers in Bangladesh for producing cheap clothes, to raping the oil out of the middle east through BP and making sure that oil is not nationalised.
Need I go on? Britain is a second tier imperialist power.
>>2805076The UK exports more financial services than America. In many ways it remains the financial capital of the world
>>2805079Britain is an imperialist economy no doubt, but speaking in terms of geopolitics they are wholly subservient to the US. They are simply allowed to wet their beaks in the superprofits extracted by the collective West of which the US is the hegemon, patron, protector, and prime decision maker. Britain is not an independent imperialist power in the way say, Germany was in 1914.
>>2805074The Brits already allow the US on falklands, in fact during the war the US supported the Brits. It would weaken Britain as a power and be a humiliation, which is good for the fight against imperialism as a whole. And provide confidence to other colonies, or "territories" belonging to Britain.
>>2805082These arguments are getting increasingly abstract and nebulous. Instead of concrete gains by anti-imperialist forces or the working class, we're now talking about vague concepts of humiliation and perception.
>>2805057An irony is that the Falkland Islanders would probably get a great deal with Milei compared to a Peronist president or some neurotic blood-and-soil fanatics because he's an Anglophile libertarian who'd probably want to turn the islands into a autonomous free trade zone.
(But ultimately "with what army")
>>2805073British imperialism is why Bermuda rightfully belongs to the U.S.
#FreeBermuda
>>2805081I do not disagree of that subservience, however interests can converge and diverge, and said subservience acts more like a joint venture of imperialism, the two are in it together.
>>2805085Falklands has an RAF base, the airforce can project military power across the south of the Americas and the south of Africa.
Falklands has israeli and british MNCs doing exploratory work for resource extraction.
Falkland goes back to Argentina, Britain will be weakened economically and militarily.
>>2805087That's not an unreasonable view, but I still don't see how it leads us to conclude that Argentina gaining the islands would be a blow against the joint imperialism of the collective West.
>>2805089>Falkland goes back to Argentina, Britain will be weakened economically and militarily.That's true, but you're just strengthening one US satellite at the expense of another. So I ask again, what would be gained? How is Western imperialism weakened?
>>2805092I'll give you an example. After the death of Queen Elizabeth, multiple nations in the commonwealth have questioned and continue to debate their involvement in this neo-colonial institution.
My bet is a similiar debate for other territories like Gibraltar or Chagos, could take place and spur a chain effect, for leaving, either joining another nation or their own independence, meaning the removal of more British military bases, and possibly MNCs.
>>2805092Putting the UK, a member of the imperial core and Argentina, a peripheral country that used to have anti-imperialist governments in the past that were toppled by the US and fought open wars against the UK is fucking hysterical and so dumb, only a stupid Canadian would make such a stupid claim, worse reduce 200 years of Argentine history to a few years of Milei's governance, peak electoral brainrot.
>>2805096Said bases tend to also be used by the US, and therefore a weakening of America.
>ireland should never get back northern ireland from the UK, it would strengthen the irish imperialists!!!! nothing would change!!!!
>spain should never get back gibraltar from the UK, it would strengthen the spanish imperialists!!!! nothing would change!!!!
etc
>>2805099Do you really think Fine Gael and Finna Fail should benefit from the hard work of Sinn Fein?
>>2805096Triggered by the Chagossian issue and the Iran War there is new debate about the status of the Sovereign Base Areas in Cyprus. But apparently getting rid off two massive outposts of Anglo-American imperialism on a strategic island won't do anything against imperialism because it might happen under a right-wing party. This is what this guy unironically believes.
>>2805097Argentina was at war with the UK when it was a fascist autocracy backed by the USA (until Reagan preferred Thatcher I guess) Nothing stops the uk from eventually becoming anti-imperialist.
However, Argentina should have the Malvinas because there is no reason for British presence in the south Atlantic. Not because of some inherent virtue or evil of both nations.
>>2805100Sinn Fein would be sweeping even harder if Ireland United, no one in the north would vote for FFFG, hence why they've been very barebones on the question of unity, especially as the left wing Fianna Failers got purged and joined Sinn Fein.
>>2805096>After the death of Queen Elizabeth, multiple nations in the commonwealth have questioned and continue to debate their involvement in this neo-colonial institution.Those moves are wholly symbolic. Barbados ditching the monarchy hasn't altered the economic relations between the two countries.
>>2805097>Putting the UK, a member of the imperial core and Argentina, a peripheral country that used to have anti-imperialist governments"Used to" is doing a lot of work here. It doesn't have an anti-imperialist government, and until that changes the transfer of the islands is a moot question.
>>2805099>ireland should never get back northern ireland from the UK, it would strengthen the irish imperialists!!!! Not equivalent at all. Northern Irish Catholics are a colonized population who would actually be liberated by the return of Northern Ireland to the Republic. Ireland itself is a small neutral country and not an active agent in the neo-colonial exploitation of its population, nor a lackey of the US on the world stage.
>spain should never get back gibraltar from the UK, it would strengthen the spanish imperialists!!!! nothing would change!!!!They're both NATO members so yeah, nothing would change.
>>2805101>But apparently getting rid off two massive outposts of Anglo-American imperialism on a strategic island won't do anything against imperialismThe entire country of Argentina is an outpost of Anglo-American imperialism. Until that changes then giving them the islands wouldn't be getting rid of anything.
>>2805105So you don't support Cypriots who oppose the British military presence on their island because getting rid of the bases wouldn't matter since Cyprus is allied with the West currently? Correct?
>>2805104> especially as the left wing Fianna Failers got purged and joined Sinn Fein.Article?
>>2805106Depends, do those Cypriots also support their country severing its ties with the West and ceasing to act as its vassal altogether? If so then yes. If not, if they want to continue to be a Western ally and proxy then no, it doesn't really matter. This is the difference between a substantive gain for anti-imperialism and petty nationalist dick waving.
>>2804692Delusional uyghur
>>2805105>Ireland itself is a small neutral country ireland is under the security umbrella of the UK, by definition they've been colonized by the engloids, as we see with the UK intercepting Russian jets in irish airspace
>>2805089>Falkland goes back to Argentina, Except Milei is a turbo Zionist
How is this our most active thread? It's such a random topic
>>2805042>>2805041Quotemining uyghur award
>>2804689The source of the conflict isn't "the claim" so much but the fact that British warships landed in 1833 and ousted the Argentinian settlement and banned immigration of argentinian citizens. They didn't even agree to some sort of peaceful solution or joint administration. They simply occupied the islands, called it "reassertion of sovereignty" and closed the matter. Overall, Britain wrested the islands from Argentina in a completely arbitrary and extralegal way. And we've been protesting this fact ever since.
>>2805114British, American, Latin American posters exist on this board.
>>2805118Oh god what the fuck?
>>2805117Make English an official language along with Spanish and give Kelpers full citizenship and its not a problem, Canada showed the way with dealing with Quebecois nonsense
>>2805105Sure the economic relations did not change, but surely even the symbolic removal, will give charge and ammo to revolutionary domestic forces in British neo-colonies/the commonwealth, and actual overseas territories to further critique British MNCs, presence of foreign militarity activity, and so forth.
>>2805123Or it could serve as a symbolic concession to anti-imperialists in those countries designed to pacify them without actually giving them anything. Certainly the potential gains would be far too nebulous to be worth supporting a war over.
>>2805127>>2805123>Or it could serve as a symbolic concession to anti-imperialists in those countries designed to pacify them without actually giving them anythingI should also mention that this is exactly what the Argentina junta was hoping to accomplish in 1982.
>>2805105The Irish Free state is a British puppet state, that got attacked whenever it took a step against Britain such as during the Sunngingdale agreement.
It's also obviously an agent in the neocolonial exploitation of its population as it's actively selling the country off to large international companies. Diplomatically it only ever condemns certain western actions when it's far away and doesn't affect Ireland, Condemning Israel is more of a PR move by the government because no one likes Israel in Ireland apart from Loyalists.
>>2805107Fianna fail was historically a broad republican party, with left wing and right wing branches, De Valera was right wing, but Countess Markievicz was left wing.
The Most left wing Irish ministers were Fianna Fail like Jack Lynch.
Jack Lynch was also a strong republican and even advocated for UN intervention in Northern Ireland.
Britain was furious by this, putting pressure on the next Irish governments to not involve themselves in NI politics, the most obvious case of this pressure was the Dublin and Monaghan attacks that broke down Sunningdale.
Following this, the right and moderate branches of Fianna Fail became more important, becoming closer to Fine Gael. This lead to former Fianna Fail members joining Sinn Fein, and therefore the rise of Sinn Fein in ROI politics.
Mary Mcdonald, the current Sinn Fein president, started off in Fianna Fail.
>>2805117But there wasn't an "Argentinian settlement", there was a preexisting private colony set up by Louis Vernet who got permission from the British to set up shop there. The United Provinces of La Plata then staked their claim by appointing him governor and sending over a small garrison. Calling it an "Argentinian settlement" is dubious at best. Obviously getting rid of the British military base there would be a good thing but we dont need to fluff up anti-imperialism with nationalist pseudohistory
>>2805130>The Irish Free state is a British puppet stateIf that's the case then yeah, I don't think the question of Northern Ireland is all that important, at least if we're talking about transferring it to the Republic under the current regime. That being said I still have open IRA sympathies since they were also largely socialist and radical in their orientation, and had issues with the government in Dublin as well as the Brits. Once again, they illustrate the difference between a real revolutionary struggle and simple horse trading among agents and beneficiaries of the world bourgeois-imperialist system.
>>2805115Even one Island is a hit, I believe Falklands to my knowledge is the only farmost foreign military base at the southern tip of Latin America, Africa and also quite close to the Antarctic, which is good for British claims over all that ice. So it goes and you only have the mainland left, surely less quicker jets and refueling and so forth.
>>2805136Britain also has a naval base on falklands. All these little island territories were for the purpose of gunbloat diplomacy for imperial interests (Britain dominating trade routes, control over certain materials or produces) and of course as in the word being a military thread to the nation surrounding their little colonies. This is continuing now and today.
the only question that really matters is if the UK even has the capability of defending the Falklands. The military gap between the two has closed since the 70's and judging from their problems deploying in the middle east, british maritime capabilities have long since eroded. IMO they have no chance defending the Falklands with an argentina being fed russian and chinese satellite data and intelligence and it will be very revealing what side western marxists end up taking, history will remember
>>2805142Western leftists aren't as ballsy as Satre anymore.
>>2805142If western marxists support Britain, then we are truly not anti imperialist and we will be very much discredited as a serious movement of slaves who want to overthrow their masters domestically, and to those colonised comrades internationally.
>>2805150>Argentina is anti-imperialist You are just a thirdiephile, Argentina is a bourgeois shithole.
>>2805151You are worst, you're an anglophile, a diseased man who shouldn't take even a step outside of your own hope in fear of spreading this mental illness outside, even the most primal of children know to hate the anglophile.
>>2805151Why shoud British revolutionaries and anti imperialists side with their own nation keeping colonies, when losing it will only weaken their own state and be of benefit to them, plus keeping with the principle of historically continuing to go against the British Empire as it was then and as it is today!
>>2805151>>Argentina is anti-imperialist who are you quoting?
>>2805132He was under authorization from the government to establish a settlement under argentinian law. You said it yourself. Seems pretty clear to me.
>>2805155If Britain and Argentina were to go to war again then British workers and socialists should absolutely support revolutionary defeatism simply because it would be a foolish reactionary war with no benefit to the working class. However I'd argue that this would also be true of Argentina as well, absent a change in their comprador government (which of course goes far beyond Millei).
>>2805154Delusional
>>2805155The Falklands won't become part of a socialist block, what retards quoting Stalin and Trotsky ITT don't understand is the context in which those quotes tool place
>>2805156>>2805150 >>2805162In what context would Stalin and Trotky be in favor of British military bases on other continents?
>>2805162that post doesn't contain the phrase "Argentina is anti-imperialist", you are hallucinating
Nuke the falklands that way no one can have it, problem solved
>>2805164A stronger Europe means it is less of a puppet of the US, this is why campists are wrong and just thirdiephiles Europe parting ways from US control would do more for "multipoltarity" than Argentina gaining control over a fucking irrelevant island considering the ZOG of Argentina would gift it to the US
inb4
>REEEEEEEEEE >>2805169If Argentina isn't anti-imperialism why do you believe them gaining control over the falklands is?
>>2804789The Americans do not want the island, they are threatening multiple European colonies for the purposes of coercing more NATO involvement re: Iran. (Britain is somehwhat involved from intelligence to military, going against Iran, but on the media front is keeping it subtle due to public backlash. Trump admin likely wants positive media and increased involvement.)
>>2805158He established settlement with permission from the British, with British colonists. All the Argentinians did was try and make the Falklands there's via a technical loophole by appointing him governor of the settlement he already founded
>>2804940But there is an relationship of subjugation between British elite and Latin American migrant workers. There is an relationship between the land and the natural resources being plucked out, or the fishery industry and said profits going towards the Brits. There is a relationship between the threat of a naval base airforce base able to project force against the foremost southern hemisphere of the earth and arctic.
Falklands by all means is a colony.
>>2805179>A stronger Europe means it is less of a puppet of the USA stronger Europe would still maintain systems like Françafrique. In fact, most anti-colonial struggles benefited from the decline of that continent.
>>2805214I'm not a thirdiephile so "anticolonialism" is irrelevant to me.
>>2805220Are you the same anon who posts on the Mexican thread?
>>2805227I am everyone you don't like
>>2805211>British elite and Latin American migrant workersSo is there also relationship between british workers and the british elite??
>There is an relationship between the land and the natural resources being plucked out, or the fishery industry and said profits going towards the Brits. There is a relationship between the threat of a naval base airforce base able to project force and?? This applies to every single piece of territory held by every single government in the world??
>>2805150>colonised comrades internationally.He says while advocating for stripping away the right to self determination of an indigenous population.
>>2805239how many foreign military bases does argentina have
>>2805244>right to self determination that belongs to nations, falklands are not a nation and have never been a nation
>how many foreign military bases does argentina have
Whats that got to do with anything?
>that belongs to nations, falklands are not a nation and have never been a nation
Yeah their nation is britain because that is who the indigenous people of the falklands are british
>>2805244>Right to self-determinationCrazy how people keep using and throwing around this term without knowing what it means. No, Falklanders are not a fucking nation.
>>2805261>>2805258>>2805246the thirdiephiles have spoken
Future wise we know the NATO Bloc or western empire is generally declining yet getting more aggressive. Possibly if the falkland goes, it means another theatre for war, which means imperial overextension which will weaken imperialism even more due to movement of military resources about and using them. Sure if they just remove a hyperspecific focus here they might not give a fuck, to then allow to focus elsewhere instead, I will concede that.
>>2805258>engloids are indigenous to falklandthats like saying americans are indigenous to Jarvis Island, Baker Island and Howland Island in the pacific. no american is retarded enough to make that claim however
>>2805258Atlanticists are incapable of being “nations” in the traditional sense because they’ve always functioned more like barbarian hordes that plunder everything in their grasp and give back nothing meaningful. To be a nation you must also have a developed civilizational state, one capable of lasting contributions to the world without the rape and exploitation of the periphery
>>2805265No you don't understand. Now is not the time. There is a conservative president in charge of Argentina now. Decolonization has to wait until Argentina elects Bernie Sanders.
>>2805264Guess someone linked this thread to sharty, huh?
>>2805273The witch-hunt has begun
>>2805181Again he was under argentinian law and territory, and recognized them as such. Britain had an obligation to respect Argentina's territorial integrity, having recognized its independence since 1823.
>>2805270thats like saying americans are indigenous to Jarvis Island, Baker Island and Howland Island in the pacific.
How are they not? Thy're literally the first people there thus making them the native inhabitants
>>2805271What the fuck are you talking about?
>>2805279'american' is a made up identity from the 18th century, its a quilted fabric of immigrants 'indigenous' to no lands, this applies to every new world nation
>>2805284>'american' is a made up identity from the 18th centuryAll ethnic and cultural identities are made up you fucking retard
Imagine being such a ciggy butt brain you believe what defines a settler population from a native is if the land was being occupied by brown people using loincloth or not.
Yes, both the Falklands, and Islands in the pacific are now settler nations, this doesn't mean it is the duty of every communist to defend them either, but claiming tjat a bunch of water is the difference between a native settlement and a colonial one is stupid, several Spanish settlements took place were no brown people in loincloth were settled, is the land based separation different from a water one? No, it is the same, if the Spaniards settle somewhere empty then they could be considered natives under the same basis as the colonists that settle on an empty island.
Of course, the liberals think that water is an esaential barrier among civilizations and that magically mens one nation is native and another one is a settler one, but we as communists deny this false dichotomy.
>>2805284Retarded libshit
>>2804692Does Falklands even have indigenous people?
>>2805292Agreed. Nothing more liberal than made up identities.
>>2805288>All ethnic and cultural identities are made up you fucking retardim glad we agree
>>2804780Law is bourgeois
>>2805303lenin and castro had law degrees
>>2805244Falklands is a literally a colony, a tiny military outpost. White elite brits govern the land on behalf of the motherland, own fishery, farming and mining while employing LatAm migrants likely exploited.
>>2805302So you think indigenous people dont exist anywhere.
>>2805306>elite brits govern the land on behalf of the motherland, own fishery, farming and mining Yes and? Indigenous population of an island uses exploits its resources for gain? Is this the first day on earth?
>while employing LatAm migrants likely exploited.Yeah and? Workers are exploited everywhere whats the news?
>>2805306wait till you learn what argentina does with paraguayan and bolivian migrants
>>2805211>But there is an relationship of subjugation between British elite and Latin American migrant workers.A relationship which the Argentine government has no interest in overturning.
>There is an relationship between the land and the natural resources being plucked out, or the fishery industry and said profits going towards the Brits.Argentina's comprador government would not be an obstacle to exploitation of the islands resources by Western capital. On the contrary it already enthusiastically facilitates this throughout the country's mainland.
>There is a relationship between the threat of a naval base airforce base able to project force against the foremost southern hemisphere of the earth and arctic.Again, do you think the Argentine compradors would be a real obstacle to this if the US wanted to use their territory for the same purpose?
>>2805308i laugh in the faces of those who use it to justify their claims on a bit of land. as far as im concerned the only places humans are 'indigenous' to are in africa
>>2805311But they are NOT indigenous, they are SETTLERS, they are TRANSPLANTS. The civilian settlement gives idealogical justification to the military presence for "defence", which in reality is to project power across LatAm. Falklands is ISRAEL, Falklands is TAWAN. It is an enemy at the gates of an entire people for the purposes of subjugation whether that is relative to extraction rights or movement of production, backed by powerful military force and economic coercion.
You are retarded.
>>2805319and they're the first people on the island, are maoris israel?
>>2805319>But they are NOT indigenous, they are SETTLERS, they are TRANSPLANTS.ALL HUMAN BEINGS ARE SETTLERS AND TRANSPLANTS FROM SOMWHERE ELSE YOU FUCKING RETARD
>>2805319>The civilian settlement gives idealogical justification to the military presence for "defence",This is so fucking stupid, almost every nation where native population are the majority use their indigenous claim to justify military spending
Fucking retard
>>2805323RETARD, the en masse settlement of falklands is a relatively RECENT trend. Shit after the falklands war it was BOLSTERED MORE THAN PRIOR.
This is an issue of understanding what the word colony means. In Marxism it is a social relation. Argentina is a settler colony because it was built on the genocide and expansion into native lands and then then the continuation of a white supremecist regime where the settlers are at the top and the indigenous or the black people are at the bottom (this racist settler system is the norm in much of South America).
The Falklands do not have a colonized group who are being exploited as part of British imperialism. The only people living there are people who moved there without violently murdering any indigenous people or establishing a racial heirarchy. It cannot be considered a colony in the Marxist sense or otherwise you are muddling words, and mixing this stuff up can lead to genocide if people start calling others colonizers in sectarian conflicts (for example "Fulanis are colonizers, we need to kill them").
As for "it's an airstrip", French Guyana (an actual colony where actual people are colonized) is the real European imperialist base in South America that needs to be driven out. I think people get way to emotional over this because of Thatcher and the war.
>>2805320Okay none of us have discussed the geographical element. Is Falklands anywhere near Britain? Just logically how can there be muh land claims on the basis of such a distance. It started as a base for gunboat diplomacy and continues as such, Britain's ability to do so should end, it would be a good for the world.
>>2805336Guyana (not french Guniea) is also a British neo colony. Brits sent warships a few years ago with the Venezuelan land claims. Multiple Multinational Corps owned by brits there. Also nearby presence of virgin island as tax havens for said MNCs.
>>2805336>The Falklands do not have a colonized group who are being exploited as part of British imperialism.Thanks Chatgpt but Argentina including the territory of the Falklands has been colonized by the UK so this is all wrong.
>>2805336>French Guyanagreat point, Engloids should be forced to give up every overseas colony they have TBH. All of it, including ascension island
>the territorial claims of this bourgeois regime are more valid than this other bourgeois regime!
Truly the biggest retard of all the thread
>>2805337Colonialism is measures by distance, the further a colonial territory is, the more colonial it is
Retard
>>2805354Third-worlders and third-worldists will always be nationalists first communists second.
>>2805357It can be, why do you think Britain took over those islands in the first place ? You don't end up with very far away territories like this without colonisation.
>>2805358>Third worlders will always be…Missed the casual racism from ultras.
>>2805357>never heard of arbitrageread marx
>>2805364>>2805368The colonial leverage the UK had on Ireland was many times worse than the one it has on the falklands
Believing that distance determines if a territory is colonial or not is stupid, what is the limit?
Sharty posters learning how to impersonate ultras is the worst thing that has happened to this board.
>>2805374It's about the colonial leverage over Argentina you fucking retard.
>>2805364Without colonization the entire country of Argentina wouldn't exist. This is why bringing up colonial disputes from past centuries is a nonsensical and un-Marxist way to address these questions. You might as well say that all of Argentina should be ceded to its Indigenous population and all the honkies should be sent back to Spain.
>>2805365I have yet to be proven wrong third-worlders have no solidarity and frankly dont actually even ive a single a fuck about communism or exploitation they're just mad that they're the ones who are being exploited instead of getting to be the exploiter.
>>2805378The leverage the UK has over Argentina has little to nothing to do with the falklands
>>2805379>Argentina was a former colony and is now a neo-colony, that's why you can't support the abolishing of actually existing colonies like the FalklandsStellar logical leaps right here.
>>2805378The IMF is a far more potent tool of colonial leverage against Argentina than some rocks with more penguins than people. Without getting rid of the neo-colonial institutions that dominate Argentina as a whole there's essentially no point in taking the islands.
>>2805389What makes the Falklands a colony? There is no colonized population there. Colonialism is an economic relationship, not just when a country has territory far from its heartland.
Thank god China got back Hong Kong in the 90s or stupid ass leftcoms would be falling all over themselves defending the crown
>>2805396China is a sovereign, progressive, anti-imperialist state. Argentina is not. Simple as.
>>2805399Trvke aside from the fact that China is imperialist
>>2805399Not according to anyone else who shares your beliefs
>>2805395The fact that Falklanders are not part of their own state's government. They are literally ruled by a random bureaucrat.
>>2805397Damn, can't even come up with a logically consistent strawman
>>2805403That doesn't make it less true. If Argentina's government was remotely like China's, or Cuba's, or Iran's, or even Russia's, I would wholeheartedly support them taking back the islands. But they aren't so I don't care.
>>2805407So that means the British inhabitants of the Falklands are colonized by the British metropole, not that the British presence there is colonial aggression against Argentina.
>>2805381From my limited knowledge, Africa seems like it has been in perpetual war since it began its colonial independance, so it is simply necessitating the terms of sovereignty to advance its various bourgeois revolutions. Gadaffi was a Caesarian figure who could unite Africa toward its self-development by a proposed trading bloc and currency, but he was killed, so we have new nationalisms like South Sudan and Eritrea. You are right that Africans are not communist, because they are being historicised in similar conditions to the West. Its annoying to see Westerners treat brown and black people as political objects, rather than subjects.
>>2805411So you are now agreeing that the Falklands are a colony?
>>2805395They are a colonial vestige of British imperialism that needs to go. The colony was originally established to prey on Spanish commerce in the fight for global domination. According to John Perceval 2nd Lord Egmont himself, head of the royal navy who had the British settlement named after him, the Falklands were key to dominating the Southern Atlantic trade and to "render all our expeditions to those parts most lucrative to ourselves, most fatal to Spain and no longer tedious or uncertain in a future war".
>>2805409crazy how you consider Irans government more comparable to China than Argentina. Actually insane
>>2805414If you consider them a colony because they don't have representation in the British Parliament, then sure. But that means the islanders are the victims, not Argentina. It does nothing to support the Argentine claims.
>>2805415>They are a colonial vestige of British imperialism that needs to go.This is such a vague concept. The entire country of Argentina (which is still a settler-colonial entity) is a vestige of Spanish imperialism. Does it need to go as well?
>>2805418Congratulations for making some progress.
>>2805374Sure, Ireland had it worst then a lot of other colonies, but it having it worst then say, Sudan, doesn't justify Sudan staying as a British colony. My point isn't that distance makes a colony worst, simply that there was no way for Britain to get that colony in the Falklands without colonialism, it's not a seperate thing.
>>2805379Most countries in the world couldn't exist without colonialism, difference here is that Spain decolonised, Britain didn't.
the only argentinian governments who have cared about any claims of the falkland islands was a fascist anticommunist military junta and now an ultrazionist lolberg government.
let that sink in
>>2805423How about you stop being a bad faith poseur and stop conflating the distinctive nature of colonies and neo-colonies that serves to justify the continued existence of the former?
>>2805431>>2805431and in both cases it's just an distraction for their shitty domestic rightoid policies
>>2805431that's some great misinformation right there but the milei government is literally the most pro-British one in a century and has to pay lipservice to the Falklands issue because otherwise would be policial suicide even for them.
>>2805431>fascist anticommunist military junta Thirdworldist literally spend 90% of their time simping for these types of countries lol.
>>2805431demonstrates that imperialist cocksucker comprador neoliberals are worse than both
>>2805428>simply that there was no way for Britain to get that colony in the Falklands without colonialism, it's not a seperate thing.The UK itself wouldn't exist if not for colonialism. Opposing colonialism means opposing bourgeois governments themselves. I don't care who controls the falklands if it's not a communist regime.
The Falklands are not a vestige of British imperialism they are an expression of British imperialism. They still are a actually existing fucking colony. No they are not a neo-colony, no not a semi-colony and they aren't an integrated part of the British state. Every attempt to obfuscate this fact or put it on equal status to any of those states is a form of colonialist apologia.
>>2805433I'm just asking you to focus on actual existing social and geopolitical relations instead of clinging to vague and idealist notions of who has a right to what land based on historical origins. When you do the latter, you end up like retarded European nationalists bickering about which fields belong to who based on which inbred nobleman ruled them in the middle ages. It quite simply has nothing to do with socialism, anti-imperialism, or class struggle. The Falklands being a "vestige of British imperialism" is meaningless when the nature of imperialism has changed so dramatically that the Argentine government is itself an agent of current, actually existing imperialism. This isn't overturning existing imperialist social relations, its relitigating petty nationalist grievances, the outcome of which will have virtually no impact on the actual power and influence of Western imperialism.
>>2805337and? if you say it's a colony it's only a colony insofar as it isn't properly represented, which means functionally nothing given the population of the island voted in a referendum to maintain their status as that
>>2805460Also as I said earlier, if you want to consider it a colony due to lack of representation then the real victims are the islanders, and its a problem easily remedied by giving them seats in Parliament. It does nothing to support the Argentine claim.
>>2805449and when global conflict erupts again, so long as the leverage exists it'll be the staging ground for a euro/north american bridgehead into latam
If you support the Argentinian claim you are siding with settler colonialism, imperialism, fascism, zionism and MAGA.
You want Trump and Israel to have a military base blocking the Southern Passage.
From a Marxist perspective the islands, under British rule, are not a colony since there were no natives. It was an empty land. Nobody was exploited.
In fact from a Marxist analysis, supporting the Argentine claim is imperialism since you want to occupy and expel the native Kelpers who have lived there peacefully for 7+ generations so it can become a resource extraction and military base for use by fascist Zionist states, those being Argentina and the US. Argentina is today a closer ally to America than the UK after all.
What we witness in this thread is chronically online American third-worldists who hate concept of British people so much they have themselves become imperialists and fascists and pro-colonialism just because the victims of such imperialism would be white-passing.
>>2805457Argentinians have civilizational tendencies, Angloids have vandal tendencies
>>2805455You have recognized that the Falklands is a colony in your own words, yet you oppose or don't care about the decolonization of the Falklands. Thus you are not an anti-colonialist, thus you are an imperialist.
Thanks for playing.
>>2805466A bridgehead to do what? Attack their loyal and compliant vassals in Buenos Aires who give them whatever they want anywaysMl?
>>2805473How does the Falkland islanders being colonized by their own government lend support to the Argentine claims?
>>2805469>Argentinians have civilizational tendenciesArgentinians genocided and butchered numerous indigenous Native American ethnogroups and 100,000s if not millions of them can trace their ancestry directly to German Nazis and Italian fascists who fled to Latin America immediately after WW2.
>>2805476You literally have no rebuttal now.
>>2805473>de-colonizationthe falklands aren't a fucking colony you dimwit, and why would you support giving them to a country that the vast majority of its citizens don't want to be apart of?
>>2805469What is this retarded ethnobabble?
>>2805480They are a colony. They are not represented in any of the UK's national institutions. They are literally being ruled by some random undersecretary for overseas affairs or some shit no one knows the name of.
>>2805469Vandals settled in Spain and were never close to Britain ?
The Falklands should be independent, no Brits, No Argentines, that way everyone can be equally unhappy
Milei has stated he's the most Zionist world leader alive. Argentinians simply want to do to the Falkland Islanders what Israel does to Palestinians.
Argentinians = Israelis
Kelpers = Palestinians
Either you're against colonialism or you're not.
>>2805484So then give them seats in Parliament. Problem solved.
>>2805469>Argentinians have civilizational tendenciesHows the donkey meat taste?
>>2805484and? this proves nothing about their status as a colony, what value would such a land be to argentina?
>>2805486you know what? this is still better than the argentinite position
>>2805487funny that you say that considering that he started off as a moderate on the issue, he's only changing because Trump asked him too, he'll change again the day Trump gets whatever he wants from Starmer
>>2805484>They are a colonyMaybe from a liberal viewpoint, but not by Marxist analysis.
There were no people on the islands before the Brits discovered the islands and settled them.
From a Marxist understanding of the notion of colonialism you can't have colonisation if there's no people being colonised.
>>2805490So you admitted that the Falklands are a colony and your answer to the colonial status is to support political integration into the metropole.
Do you unironically think that you are the anti-imperialist here? Seriously?
>>2805483>Ethnobabble Kek
>>2805500>political integration into the metropole. Well the inhabitants dont want to leave the metropole.
>>2805500You said they're a colony because they have no representation in the British government. So then wouldn't having such representation mean they are no longer a colony? What would be the difference between the Falklands and Kent in that case?
>>2805500a colony in which most of its population would rather stay at, with no indigenous population other than the falkland islanders themselves, are you insane?
Please stop using a liberal capitalist definition of the term colony and use the term in a Marxist sense tyvm
>>2805506Do you think that Guantanamo bay ceases to be an American colony the moment they are getting a representative?
>>2805513guantanamo bay is connected to a larger island that had otherwise owned it and had people living in it for hundreds of years prior, the falklands literally didn't have this
>>2805513There were Cubans living in Guantanamo before the Spanish American war though
>>2805509You are aware that there actually are unironic Falklander defectors that are politicians in Argentina and Argentine political councils and parliaments, yes? So the Falklands quite literally has more political representation within the Argentine state than the British one.
if the falklands is a colony then nz should be annexed to samoa, and if you oppose this you're an imperialist
>>2805513That depends. Is there an indigenous Cuban population being kept as an underclass to serve American settlers? If not then no, it isn't a colony in the Marxist usage of the term. However I would still support it going back to Cuba because Cuba (unlike Argentina) is a sovereign, socialist, anti-imperialist state against which Guantanamo is a weapon.
>>2805518Not an argument sweetie because Cubans weren't the original inhabitants of Cuba, try again.
>>2805518There were argentines in the Falklands before the British settled permenently.
>>280551950 guys… wow… 90% or more of their population sees them as traitors
>>2805526
still, they made argentina cope forever
>>2805526
I assume this is a joke post but there are third worldists posting amongst us who hold this position without irony
>>2805522>Ingenious Cuban populationCubans are as indeginous to Cuba as Argentineans are to Argentina. Why aren't you following the logical conclusions of your own arguments here?
>>2805531But there were no Argentines settled on the Falklands before the Anglos arrived. Nobody was displaced or dispossessed to establish the British presence there.
>mfw the governor of the falklands is appointed by the king
IMAGINE being the subject of a king, we left that shit behind hundreds of years ago. the falklanders must be free from the chains of feudal artistocracy
because Argentinians are Latinx, brown & indigenous and the fucking Brits are fucking melanin-deficient mayo bougie whites with no teeth or spices.
Argentinians should go back to North Italy where they all come from. America should be for the Native Americans.
Can you debunk that arguement without also explaining why the Falklanders are entitled to stay in their nation too?
>>2805540soldiers? yeah but other than them there was none, on the contrary, britain actively encouraged the argentine settlers to stay on the island
>>2805546falklands are not a nation soz
>>2805538And? You just spent an entire thread rambling telling us how there is no difference between Argentina and The Falklands because both are settler colonies anyway and now suddenly Cuba vs. Guantanamo is special? Why are you so selective in when you support decolonization and when you don't?
>>2805546you would have to clone hundreds of billions of amerindians, for falklands to retain its current status would affect no one, it'd only benefit the actual falklanders, not some imagined great argentina
>>2805540Sorry but that just isn't historically true.
The Spanish and French had small temporary whaling stations which they abandoned on the islands.
Chilean cowboys moved to the islands and integrated and intermarried with the British Falklanders.
But no Argentinians ever settled the islands. Any claim to the contrary is revisionist historical fiction invented to serve an Argentinian ultra-nationalist narrative.
>>2805538British settlers in powdered wigs literally killed and ate every single melanated Argentinian prole on Las Malvinas, over 10 million of them.
>>2805554I said there was no difference between the islands coming under British or Argentine sovereignty because they would be under the control of imperialism in both cases. Gitmo is different because if it was returned to Cuba, it would actually strengthen a socialist and anti-imperialist government and weaken imperialism as a whole.
>>2805558there were but the only ones who actually were expelled from the island were argentine soldiers, the actual population were merchants, and the british encouraged them to stay
There's two main islands.
Why doesn't Argentina take one and Britain the other?
Why has no sensible centrist thought of that?
>>2805469Delusional thirdiephile
>>2805558You're lying, there was a small population and settlement appointed by the Argentinian government that Britain overthrew in 1833.
>>2805473Colonialism is based because it turns loincloth browns into proles thus historically progressive
>>2805573of which almost all of them stayed with the exception of soldiers, who were forced out of the island
>>2805576you posted this just to be a gigantic faggot contrarian le troll but funnily enough, this is the actual marxist position
for a double funny, it doesn't apply to the falklands
>>2805582So it took the islands by force, hence Britain occupied territory of an independent state they had recognized and that's how it all started
Brits are shitty people therefore no sovereignty over ANYEHERE
Reminder that the Falklands recently had a referendum on whether or not to stay part of the British empire and every single resident except for three voted to stay
>>2805601thats crazy, want to see the percentage of israelis who voted to stay?
>>2805604Point out how many natives has the citizens of the falklands murdered?
>>2805591>Britain occupied territory of an independent state they had recognizedBritain never recognized the claim of argentina over the falklands and also never withdrew its own claim when they left in 1778
>>2805604>implying falklands isn't at this point as british as londongenuinely kill yourself
>>2805606as british subjects they were responsible for the murder of millions of bengali and all the crimes associated with participation of the empire
>>2805614When Washington saw that he was getting nowhere, but that instead an uproar was starting, he took water and washed his hands in front of the crowd. “I am innocent of this man’s blood,” he said. “It is your responsibility!”
All the Brits answered, “His blood is on us and on our children!”
>>2805614falkland KD ratios were that high?
>>2805603Britain recognized Argentina's independence in 1823 and even signed a treaty of friendship with it in 1825. There was also a public act by the Argentinian government in 1820 proclaiming its sovereignty over the islands and the news reached Europe but didn't raise objections. Having done all this, Britain had an obligation to respect Argentina's territorial integrity.
>>2805610Yeah it did, but then it claimed it didn't.
>>2805614"original sin" is reactionary.
also the same logic could be applied to argentinians with their genocide of their indigineous population
argie appologist turd worldists use the same logic as zionists use when they claim palestine, except even israelis have a stronger historical claim then fucking argentina
>>2805630>"original sin" is reactionaryfor leftcoms to understand, one must speak on their own terms
>>2805636how funny, how about you get a job
>>2805638go away porky im not giving up mysurplus value
>>2805627>1823 and even signed a treaty of friendship with it in 1825. There was also a public act by the Argentinian government in 1820 proclaiming its sovereignty over the islands The brits never responded to it or agreed to their proclamation and in none of the treaties did britain ever acknowledge the argentinian claim or withdraw its own claim on the falklands.
Ironic thing is that (just a few weeks ago actually) the British government revealed they were discussing plans to transfer sovereignty to Argentina and were planning to send an offer to Buenos Aires.
But then they did a total 180 on their position when the Argies invaded…
>>2805653they should give it to uruguay or chile instead
>>2805654Of all the South American nations, the Chileans actually have the best claim tbh.
Campists once again proving they have no principles beyond hating the West. I hope the Brits blow up any and all Argentines that dare to try. Military conquest doesn't become ok because you hate Britain, period.
>>2805661>no principleThe principle is colonies bad retard.
>>2805664Retarded moralist libshit
>>2805664Nice. When are you leaving Turtle Island?
Or is it "colonies are bad except the one I live in because you can't personally inconvinience me!?"
>>2805614Based brits advancing history and establishing capitalism in Bangladesh
>>2805646Britain did not press its claim and ratified Argentina's independence and territory. They had their chance to formally settle territorial disputes and decided to ignore it, and that's on them. At this point you've effectively recognized the islands as Argentinian and pledged to respect it.
3rd Worldists are ignoring the wishes of an indigenous people and demanding they accept being conquered + colonised by Argentine crackkker fascists
As a Brit i'd give the islands to the Chileans but never to Argentina. British whalers and Chilean gauchos peacefully shared the islands together historically.
No Argentinians ever actually wanted to live or visit the islands before 1982. The average Argie in 1981 probably couldn't point the islands out on a map.
>>2805614I will say the n-word if You reply ro me again
>>2805604Oh sorry I thought the main talking point was that the Falklanders were being repressed and unrepresented by the British
>>2805673>Britain did not press its claimIt didnt withdraw it either.
>ratified Argentina's independence and territory.The territory that they ratified argentina had control over did not include the falklands.
>>2805669It seems like you are politically illiterate because you don't seem to not know the difference between a colony wnd and a neo-colony or you are another bad faith actor who is conflating the two concepts in order to white wash the former. So which one are you? Stupid or evil?
>>2805682Crown subjecthood is crime against humanity but the falklanders wouldn't want it any other way, they are gleeful participants
>>2805688Thanks for confirming I was correct.
Other people doing colonialism is evil.
But you, a rich white boi crakkker third worldist living in Portland Oregon, are allowed to colonise Native American lands.
Always an excuse for why it's different when you're doing it.
All third worldists have this exact same mindset.
>>2805690I live in Austria, retard. Mods can confirm my IP. But thanks for confirming that you are politically illiterate and that your whole politics is based on weirdo boogieman.
>>2805664The Falklands are not a colony. It was not conquered from someone else, it was terra nulllis. This is just cope from thirdies who can't admit they're actually ok with military aggression as long as they're the ones doing it.
Bad Empanada really rustled a lot of jimmies with his recent video huh?
All it takes for a principled communist to take a stance on the English-speaking Internet, like a stance that is a total no-brainer anywhere else, for half of leftypol and sharty to lose their collective minds and spent overtime imperialist world powers. kek
>>2805699Britain is not a world power anymore, they're just an eternal boogeyman you use as an excuse whatever you want to do
>>2805698They literally are a colony, they are literally populated by people that quite literally don't govern themselves. But pretty cool that after you failed to white-wash the colonial status of the Falklands by conflating their status of a colony with neo-colony and post-colonial societies you just straight up engage in open colonial apologism. It's almost that was your point all along.
>>2805701I think you are not only politically illiterate or straight up illiterate. You know a boogeyman is supposed to be a made-up thing but the colonization of the Falklands by Britain is not made up, it's real and material. You seem to be unable to discern reality from fantasy. Concerning.
>>2805702>they are literally populated by people that quite literally don't govern themselvesSo it should be given to argentina despite the people not wishing to be governed by them at all?
>>2805702Nice try but we both know that 999/1000 when people say colony they mean an imperial power lording over a conquered people, not settlers taking over uninhabited land and being given a separate legal status. They do have a separate legal status but that hardly means they should be given to fucking Argentina lmao.
>>2805704Potraying Milei as this freedom fighter for the Falklands is a literal psyop and manufacturing consent. He literally has the most dovish stance on it out of any Argentine leader, since well forever. It's very revealing that this is basically the central talking point that this is being pushed by imperialists.
>>2805706I don't care. You can't justify Argentina taking the Falklands on anything other than rank imperial proximist grounds, the oldest, most pathetic excuse for violence in the book ('it's next door so I want it').
>>2805709Their seperate legal status is that they are a fucking colony you fucking retard.
>>2805683>It didnt withdraw it either.They actually did, they pretty much signed it away during the previous diplomatic crises with Spain. And by the time of Argentina's independence, Britain then acted as if it had some kind of unalienable right over the islands.
>The territory that they ratified argentina had control over did not include the falklands.They ratified Argentina's territory and the Falklands were under its territory as it had been under the Spanish crown, so again yes they did.
>>2805714I don't need to justify anything because it is simply put their territory.
>>2805715By that logic so is Scotland since its parliament technically only exists at the pleasure of London. Come on. They have delegated local elected administration that London doesn't really interfere with. That's certainly better than being violently annexed by the "Libertarian" (fascist) Zionist in Buenos Aires.
>>2805718It's not, and any Argies that try to make it so should be ruthlessly slaughtered.
The UK is a prison house of nations
>>2805723Lazy rebuttal, Scotland is represented in parliament, has mps. Etc. The Falklands don't.
Try again.
>>2805721because it was promised to them by El Dio 400 years ago?
>>2805706On what grounds??
>>2805728No because under international law and precedent it is their territory.
>>2805727No point, you can't change my mind anyway.
all the whitest people you know support the argentinian NAZI terrorist genocidal crakkkers
all the brownest people you know support the indigenous islanders
>>2805715one which the population overwhelmingly supported?
>>2805732I am accepting your concession on the Falklands being a colony.
>>2805731oh so El Dio promised it 400 years ago, got it
>>2805734Which still makes them a colony. Thanks for playing.
>>2805738No you didn't get it.
>>2805731>under international lawInternational law also says a people have a right to self-determination and the people are against being a part of argentina
Huge influx of new posters. Someone probably cross-posted to /brit/ on /int/ or /pol/.
>>2805737Irrelevant, doesn't justify Argentine occupation
>>2805740no i'm pretty sure i got it, you repeat the MUH INTERNATIONAL LAAWWW argument every time, because El Dio (spain) promised it to them 400 years ago, and for this reason alone, this gives them the right to dispossess the locals
>>2805743This is a common misconception but International law never says that some 'people' have the right to self-determination. There are actually very strict requirements to that and those aren't being met by the population on the Falklands. I am glad I can educate you on this issue though.
>>2805745There is no Argentine occupation because a state can't occupy its own territory.
>>2805750It's not their territory and it never will be no matter how much you insist it is
>>2805748the falklanders are british, legally this is recognized, by your own internashinonal laugh, logically since they've been on the island for nearly 200 years uninterrupted, they are logically entitled to this land
>>2805746No one is trying to disposess anyone. All Falklanders are naturally born Argentine citizens. However the foreign military occupation needs to be expelled and the naval base closed, yes.
>>2805755the only occupation would be an argentine one, once again because "their territory" is about as legitimate as their claim (or rather, any nations' claim) to antarctica, your entire argument hinges on El Dio promising it to them, and for this reason it's somehow their territory, despite the fact that every possible thing stands against it
>>2805753No it's not not even half of all countries on the planet recognize the British claim. According to Argentina Falklanders are born Argentine citizens because they were born on Argentine soil. There are plenty of Falklanders that have successfully received a Argentinr passports and voted in Argentine elections. Even become politicians in Argentina.
>>2805755Rank, blatant imperialism. I sincerely hope if you are stupid enough to start a war over this the RAF blows you up in whatever shithole apartment you're spamming this from.
>>2805756Under the principle of uti possidetis iuris this territory is Argentine soil and always has been. Cope and seethe.
>>2805762It does not matter what Argentina says
>>2805758You have already conceded that it's a colony. There is no point in using words of imperialism for you now.
Imperialism - the Marxist definition:
>The highest stage of capitalism, where monopolies and finance capital dominate, capital is exported abroad, and the world is divided among capitalist powers for exploitation.
Colonialism - the Marxist definition:
>The political, military, and economic domination of one people by another in order to extract labour, resources, land, and markets for the benefit of the ruling capitalist class of the colonising power.
FACT:
>In Marxist terms, British control of the Falklands is neither imperialist nor colonialist.
>To call the Falklands colonialist or imperialist you must rely on liberal definitions of the terms.
There were no people on the Islands before the Scottish / Welsh whalers who migrated there.
The descendents of which, mixing with Chilean gauchos, eventually developed their own unique cultural identity - becoming Kelpers. The Kelpers are the indigenous people of the Islands.
The Islanders are not economically, politically, or militarily exploited.
Their wealth and resources are not being extracted.
In fact, the UK has to send money and resources to the islands to make life there even remotely viable. (Would the Argies do the same? Could they afford to?)
The Islanders have total freedom to determine their own fate and to vote to leave the UK at any time, should they wish.
>>2805752Yes, it is, there's no basis for claiming it's British
>>2805757how many, 200? the overwhelming majority of the population on the islands (ie, the only population that actually matters) vote repeatedly against becoming anything but their current status, not only that, becoming an argentine citizen against their will is insane, given most of the population enjoy their status as british subjects
>>2805762El Dio promised it to them, despite them not holding it first, and not even having a bit of the islands for nearly 200 years, this makes it theirs?
>>2805763You lost Chagossia (now part of Mauritius). You lost Gibraltar (now integrated into Schengen).
You will lose the Falklands.
The age of British imperialism is over.
>>2805762Okay well under the principle of gleepus glorpus it belongs to me and I can do what I want with it and I say the British should have it
>>2805768Who cares whether Rhodesians votes to stay in Rhodesia?
>>2805770So if the Brits said don't touch the Falklands or we're nuking Buenos Aires you'd still do it? You understand you're fucking with a nuclear armed country out of nothing but irrational seething hatred?
>>2805764>>2805770You are a liberal using liberal definitions of the term imperialism, not Marxist definitions
>>2805774Because Rhodesians represented 5% of the population while Falkanders represent 100%
>>2805772Thanks for conceding the argument on legalistic grounds. After all your fake arguments have been defeated you can just admit that your are an imperialist British supremacist.
>>2805777Falklanders represent 0.1% of the territory of Argentina.
>>2805776You lost the argument both within the liberal and Marxist framework. That's how much of a loser you are.
>>2805774rhodesians never made up more than a small minority, in fact the argentine falklanders are actually more similar to the rhodesians than the british ones are, since they overwhelmingly vote to maintain with the country they've always been, whereas the argies want to become apart of a separate nation, simply because El Dio promised it to them 400 years ago and for this reason, it is apparantly argentine
>>2805780Good thing they don't consider themselves Argentine then (and no, you insisting they are Argentine is not valid; they don't want to be Argentine, you want to force them to be Argentine, making you an Imperialist by definition).
>>2805775Imagine actually believing Keir Starmer would nuke Buenos Aires. He probably would relinquish control of the Falklands and also pay the Argentines 20 billion pounds on top because that's what he unironically did in the case of Chagossia. Did you already forget that or something?
>>2805786Which is utterly irrelevant like I have already demonstrated. They don't fall under the right of self-determination.
>>2805769You're ignoring the history and legitimacy of these type of colonial successions. Uti possidetis iuris was a widely recognized principle in all emerging post-colonial states. It has been the case thorough decolonization history: The new independent state succeeds its former colonial territory. This was even admitted by the British themselves, during a similar territorial dispute with Brazi in 1826:
>"Your Lordship will observe to the Brazilian Ministers, that unless by a general tacit agreement, the States of the New World be admitted to stand towards each other, in respect to geographical rights and limits, exactly as they stood when Colonies, questions of the utmost perplexity will infallibly arise out of their rival and conflicting pretensions; and the whole Continent of America, whether Spanish or Portuguese, will ultimately be laid open to the designs of any enterprising adventurers, who may think fit to carve out for themselves new dominions." >>2805791Don't even have to go that far back. The British government is currently doing that during Chagossia's case as well.
>>2805791yet as a colony, they did not hold the falklands, the british did, the argentines were nothing but squatters acting on the argument of El Dio's promised land of fish and penguins
>>2805790Yes, they do. You wanting to deny them that right is imperialist.
I'd have more respect for you if you admitted to being an imperialist instead of trying to mask your barbarian attitude in emancipatory language. You are no different from any other imperialist since the dawn of civilization who has tried to justify why it's ok for him to invade his neighbours and kill anyone that resists.
>>2805792It only works if you equate Argies with the Rhodesians and Falklanders with the Shona people of Zimbabwe
>>2805794Britain abandoned the islands permanently after 1773
>>2805795No they don't. Please educate yourself. Not every shit group on a rock or island has a right to self-determination. This are actual legal terms with criteria with meaning behind them. You are wrong. At least watch a fucking 5 min video on this topic or. something.
>>2805798"permenantly" yet they returned, does esquibo belong to venezuela, not guyana?
>>2805796How about we just equate the British with the British. That's it.
>>2805799there is a british nation present on the falkland islands, this island has sustained itself interrupted with said british population going on 193 years, said population has considered itself, per the rights afforded to them by the UN itself, british, such a nation logically should be consulted in terms of their sovereignty, not a 400 year old treaty signed by El Dio and La Dia
>>2805801Returned 60 years later with no legal arguments to unlawfully seize it from another country they had just recognized as independent
>>2805804Irrelevant babble. The UK was humiliated at the UN because of Chagossia and it will be humiliated when it comes to the Falklands one day.
Why can't you people admit that you are bunch of British exceptionalist nationalist that just came over from pol? Why this charade? You are using words, policial concepts and legal definitios like imperialism, right to self-determination whose meanings you barely grasp if not completely misunderstood.
Crazy that Hitlerite-Third Worldists will waste so much time defending Milei/MAGA/Zionism and calling for the genocide of Falklanders ITT
Meanwhile they will never once ever mention Guiana, Kanaky, Reunion, West Papua, or any of a dozen different groups in Myanmar.
>>2805802you fundamentally do not believe the people on the falklands are people with equal rights to others, it's really that simple
>>2805807>legalityimplying for a second that this matters, it would precisely not matter anymore since the population of the islands are so british, and indeed if it came down to a UN arbitration, would almost certainly result in the status quo
>>2805804would the british be so brave to bring this argument to the U.N court? no? then their days as crown soil are numbered
>>2805766>>In Marxist terms, British control of the Falklands is neither imperialist nor colonialist.>To call the Falklands colonialist or imperialist you must rely on liberal definitions of the terms.This is incorrect because the UK colonized Argentina. What you are doing is whitewashing British colonization of the Southern cone. It's like saying the UK never colonized China because it only governed Hong Kong.
>>2805808i've been here for years, i'm simply telling you the objective fact, that by all measures of indigenity presented under international law, all continuity of habitation, the opinions of the islanders themselves, that the argument that it'd be "just like chagos" is nonsense, that it would almost certainly remain british, because the opinions of the actual islanders is what'd matter, not whichever argentine government hissy fit of the week
>>2805812i wouldn't, because it has never been brought up, but the lawyers would almost certainly make this argument
>>2805802Are you unaware that Rhodesia was a self-declared independent state? Not part of the UK?
The British government literally led a full and total economic and political boycott of Rhodesia for 15 years and refused to acknowledge the state's existence.
>>2805810>you fundamentally do not believe the people on the falklands are people with equal rights to others, it's really that simpleI believe that as Argentine citizens they are equal before the Argentine constitution. Meanwhile even within the UK they don't even have the same rights as other British subjects.
>>2805813How can an undiscovered island be a part of a nation that doesn't yet exist?
>>2805813i love how you keep bringing up irrelevant, factually incorrect comparisons just to try and morally bait your opponents into demonstrating that no, an inhabited place as a result of an unequal treaty doesn't equal rights to occupy it, this ironically enough goes against your whole argument that they are argentine because the spanish promised it to them
>>2805817they are british, and no matter how much you shout and pout they'll be british, because they consider themselves such, the british consider themselves such, and no matter how much the argentines would love to devour the falklands, they're not getting it
>>2805815No it wouldn't and what you are saying is not fact but your dumb opinion that you spout. You don't know shit about anything politics or international law for that matter.
>>2805820Because the British colonization of Argentina happened after it declared its formal independence from Spain. Seriously? Open a history book.
>>2805825Britain never colonised Argentina.
Argentina did however genocide and colonise Patagonia.
>>2805823except i do, i know for a fact that if argentina actually presented its case to the UN directly, it would lose, why? because despite your repeated claims that they own it despite having no continuity to it, they would lose by so many events it's not even funny, if anything you can cite your phallus maximus legal precedent all you want, but it's not gonna stop the falklanders from being british
>>2805825Britain did not colonise Argentina, you just have to believe they did to convince yourself it's ok to kill them in 2026
>>2805817and also you don't view them as humans, since them believing (factually i might add) that they are british subjects and as a result, are as british as someone from kent is invalid, because whatever they think they must be brainwashed, they're argentine after all!
>>2805828>Britain never colonised Argentina.Here is your definition of colonization:
>The political, military, and economic domination of one people by another in order to extract labour, resources, land, and markets for the benefit of the ruling capitalist class of the colonising power.Since Argentina's economy was completely controlled with by the British Empire in the 19th century during this period which commonly known as the Invisible Empire or the Informal Empire, depending on the literature we can conclude, applying Marxist analysis, that Argentina, all of Argentina including the Falklands, was a British colony.
Thanks for playing and letting me copypaste the definition.
>>2805830factually incorrect and not Marxist see
>>2805835 Saying Britain colonised Argentina is like saying France is engaged in a military occupation of Canada by controlling Saint-Pierre-et-Miquelon.
>>2805837or that esquibo is venezuelan because El Dio also promised it to them 400 years ago
>>2805829That's quite a huge claim since there hasn't been a formal process at all and already half of states on this planet haven't recognized the British claim. Well, more than a huge claim but straight exceptionalist delusion.
>>2805841>half of states on this planet haven't recognized the British claimsource or get out, also no it's not an insane idea they've never actually pushed the issue because they'd lose in a UN court, no more a delusion than the idea they'd win in court
Guatemala still claims the entirity of Belize. Crazy.
I guess the Belizians deserve genocide too because they're ontologically evil for being anglophones. That's the 3rd Worldist logic.
>>2805840You keep saying that while going on about how the British crown promised you the Falklands 300 years ago
>>2805845This might come as a shock to you but in fact not the US recognizes the Falklands as being under British sovereignity. They recognize the Falklands as being administered by the UK but they formally don't recognize British sovereignty. If you don't believe me just Google it yourself.
>>2805849yeah i know, they don't take a position either way, because they want to maintain a good relationship with both countries, this still doesn't answer the question of "half of the countries in the world don't recognize it as being british"
>>2805848No see I don't need to rely on shit from centuries ago.
The people who live there NOW, who did not steal it from anyone currently alive, want to be British and do not want to be Argentine. That's literally all the justification I need. Nothing you say will convince me otherwise, you're operating on a brutish might-makes-right mentality.
>>2805848>You keep saying that while going on about how the British crown promised you the Falklands 300 years agoNTA but actually the Falklands have been exclusively British for 193 years now.
>>2805848difference is they actually own it, control it, and have done so for just under 200 years! the circumstances could truly not be different
>>2805847Belize is not a colony but a sovereign state so I don't really get your point. You seem to repeatedly fail to grasp what the actual dispute is about apparently.
>>2805857it was a colony until relatively recently, again, what rights to the guatemalans have to belize, or the venezuelans to esquibo?
>>2805858and not only is this the fundamental argument you've made "post-colonial states have automatic rights to territory they held as colonies", it means you have to claim an inconsistency, because the belize are sovereign?, well they're also a british aligned state, with a monarch held by the british, you couldn't have asked for a better consistency test for your nonsense!
>>2805858>it was a colony until relatively recently, again,No idea, it's you people who keep bringing up these issues as red herings and strawmen that are fundamentally different both politically and legally from the Falklands dispute because you are not able to formulate coherent arguments
>>2805857>Belize is not a colony but a sovereign stateNot according to the Guatemalans.
They say the same spiel of "under the principle of uti possidetis iuris this territory is Guatemalan soil and always has been."
Venezuelans do the same thing to Guyana too.
>>2805854Macao was exclusively Portuguese for 500 years. Not an argument, sorry not sorry.
>>2805863>what rights to the guatemalans have to belize, or the venezuelans to esquibo?answer the question, or get out, you have completely ignored the venezuelan claim to esquibo, because like the falklands if it was actually held in a UN court, it'd be ruled invalid
>>2805866Macao was Cantonese for centuries before Portuguese control though.
There was nobody living on the Falklands before the Brits.
>>2805866it's an argument under specific conditions, like the ones in the falklands, because there was no permanent population in the falklands until 1833
>>2805865And the case is currently being trialed because of that. What's your point again?
Fuck it. By the rights invested in me I declare the entire observable universe my personal propery by divine right of uti possidetis iuris o algo.
Guess by Argentine-Hitlerite-3rd Worldist logic that means I own you now huh?
>>2805869>>2805871Which again is utterly irrelevant under international law.
>>2805875Come over here to the slave quarters and I’ll show you a thing or two buddy
>>2805853The people who live there are there because Britain seized the islands from Argentina after recognizing its independence
>you're operating on a brutish might-makes-right mentalityyou're the one justifying british colonial attacks
>>2805875I am accepting your concession. Thanks for playing. You can't always win.
>>2805878Sounds kinda hot ngl
>>2805869There were and the Argentinian government was in the process of settling the islands.
>>2805887This has been debunked.
>>2805877they kind of have to actually ask the people of the island which has lived there uninterrupted for 193 years if they want to be apart of a nation, the logical answer would be no
If you want to pinpoint the exact moment the ultras lost ITT it is this post where I used the Marxist definition of a colony they provided to refute their false claim that Argentina was no a British colony during the era of the Informal empire. Quite a master stroke I have to say about myself.
>>2805835>>2805891By the Department of Anglo imperialism, probably
Colonialism and settler colonialism have been dead ever since the end of WWII and will never come back. The original sin of capitalism, primitive accumulation was superseded a long time ago.
Soviet industrialization proved that you don't need colonies to undergo basic industrialization.
Western globalization made every country in the world too interconnected for wars of conquest to be ever profitable directly. Neocolonialism and the appearance of the comprador bourgeoisie resulted in Western imperialism becoming perfectly compatible with global Westphalian sovereignty.
In our world military power became secondary in the sense that it is only a tool to influence production and public sentiment. Any war today can have two goals: influencing economic and diplomatic relations between nominally sovereign states and affecting the public opinion of other countries by inflicting pain on the population and destabilizing the structure of their political system.
As it was already said, this is purely about the US pressuring Britain to further involve themselves in the war against Iran. It has nothing to with the people living on the island and actually fighting this war would be pointless
>>2805893No they literally don't. I told you it's cute you unironically believe that but this is not how the right of self-determination does work or has worked. I understand that this is the understanding you might gain from watching shitty Marvel slop where random states gain independence or whatever but this is not reality. At least try to watch a 5 minute video on the right of self-determination before coming back with a non-sensical pseudo-rebuttal based on a false premise.
>>2805894for one who acts so smug, you still have yet to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the falklanders opinions not only doubt matter about their sovereignty, but that the argentines deserved it because spain promised it to them 400 years ago, and making all sorts of claims with varying degrees of factuality
>>2805898This is wrong and ahistorical. Colonies, actual colonies, as in not being metaphors still exist and continue to exist. Claiming otherwise is apologism at best and an active attempt to white-wash colonialism at worst.
>>2805902I have already explained to you that the right of self-determination don't apply to them, like three times and that you have a misinformed understanding of it.
>>2805899it's funny that you keep smugly repeating this claim as if it's true, no, the right to self-determination applies exclusively to its original inhabitants, which the original argentines would have still been apart of the falklanders of the modern day, because even if this was true, the british would still have precedence because they are the original peoples of the island! by automatic right self-determination factors into this
>>2805907no, you just smugly retort "it doesn't apply!" despite the argentine government themselves thinking it does apply to the situation
>>2805909No it doesn't. They are going by a completely different legal principle.
And for your information: it also didn't apply in the case of Chagossia. There was no right to self-determination recognized here by the court. That's why Chagossia ended up being ceded back to Mauritius btw. and wasn't established as a sovereign country. Have you never wondered about why that happened? Lmao.
>>2805908>automatic right self-determination factors into thisThere is no such thing. Like, you are literally making up random legal and political concepts inside of your head. Lmao.
>>2805913in chagos it didn't apply because there was no indigenous population left to ask, as they had already been deported to various islands, they also gained it as well because it is a military occupation, not a civilian government
>>2805917indigenous populations have a right to self-determination as per UN law, logically we can state this applies to the falklands, because its population is thoroughly british and has been so, since there was no settlement to the island until 1841, in which the first people to settle there were british, once again, they were the first to permanantly settle on the island other than soldiers
As a Mexican I support the British claim so I can shitpost about Argensimians not having control over the Falklands.
MESEROOOOO
>>2805922they're not an indigenous population, they're a population implanted by the british empire over the territory of another country in violation of treaties
>>2805930they were on those islands before Argentina existed
>>2805924Yes, we are aware that this thread is being spammed by nationalist shitbags like you.
There are at least 4 separate groups that overlap, arguing in favor of British imperialism ITT.
-sharty trolls
-ultra trolls
-Brits from 4chan brit threads
-other groups that harbor personal nationalist resentment against Argentineans like rivaling compradors from other LatAm states
>>2805930really? so an uninhabited island, one in which the british were the first to settle, has no rights to indigenity, simply because spain promised them it?
>>2805932Which is irrelevant since Argentina's claim was grandfathered via the Spanish empire.
>>2805934you quite literally made this up in your head to justify it, everyone you don't like is a "troll" or has some other motivation, and can't simply have come to the position that argentina has no legally valid claim to the island other than a 400 year old treaty?
>>2805934I am not a nationalist, you just don't understand latam banter.
>>2805935exactly. it's just like how the torah promises the land of palestine to the jews!
argentine claims to the falklands use the identical logic to zionist claims to palestine. it was promised to them! in the writings! the history of who lives there is irrelevant!
>>2805938Guy below you literally admitted that they didn't take anything in the thread serious and that they are just here to troll and banter. You were literally proven wrong 15 seconds later lmao.
>>2805935They weren't the first to settle and they weren't the first to discover them either.
>>2805937okay, i get it reality doesnt matter. the land was promise to them by yahweh, oops i mean spain.
israeli logic.
>>2805941indeed, a claim which i've been repeating for the entire rest of the thread
>>2805943really? 1 troll is irrelevant, making up claims that everyone but you is a troll is silly
>>2805945they were the first to permanently settle, which is the only thing that matters
>>2805946Ok I have to admit it's very funny how you people find new and creative ways to create shitty strawmen out of genocide, colonization and zionism to argue in favor of British imperialism. Greater banter, mates? The mass killin of millions is very funny now. I think I finally got it, very funny.
>>2805947>really? 1 troll is irrelevant, making up claims that everyone but you is a troll is sillyI haven't counted but this must have been like the tenth goal post shift this guy did throughout this thread, lmao.
>>2805950does your argument not hinge on El Dio granting it to them 400 years ago? does your argument hinge on pretending that the falklanders have no value, despite this being something they overwhelmingly have a vested interest in? does your argument not hold on the fact that they matter only when they are pro-argentine colonization of their island, but when they express any other opinion, they matter not?
>>2805947>they were the first to permanently settle, which is the only thing that mattersBritain left the islands after the dispute with Spain and relinquished their claim. Any British legitimacy ended after that, everything after is pure imperialist aggression.
>make a silly shitpost
>Some retard has a seethe attack
Lmao
>>2805879Doesn't matter. The people responsible are dead, the people they hurt are also dead. There's nothing to be done about it. You're just looking for an excuse to hurt more people in the present.
>>2805955Yes we got it, you think the mass killing of Palestineans is so funny that you love to employ it in your jingoist rivalry with your rival nationality. Hahaheeho. Very fun. Dead children. So edgy. Now fuck off back to sharty.
>>2805952i've never shifted the goalposts, i've repeatedly uttered three basic things
>1:the falklanders position on the status of their island matters, as does the position of any people in a sovereignty dispute>2: the argentine claims are built on factually inaccurate claims, or built on presumptions of El Dio telling them this land was promised to them>3: anyone who defends such a position is not "opposing colonialism" or any other system, but precisely defending it when they personally don't like the perpetrator, and will ignore any similar case and instead insert false comparisons in order to lie and deceive others >>2805954they never relinquished their claim, nor ever supported argentina's claim, once again, make a false claim, and then pretend it's true
>>2805960Also unlike the British Argentina ACTUALLY gave up the claim to the islands, for which we have actual historical evidence since it actually happened. They didn't give a shit about it for over a century
Why is this retard tlking about Paliestinians in a thread about Argensimians?
>>2805958You claimed there are no trolls and like 10 seconds later a guy shows up confessing they basically have been trolling throughout this thread in bad faith because they have a jingoistic rivalry going on and then you where forced to admit uh yeah there are trolls after all. Why do you lack basic self-awareness?
>>2805962Wow another one. What a banger. Keep'em coming, tiger.
I mean not even the US recognizing British sovereignty over the islands is basically all you need to know on this topic. It basically says it all.
>>2805963i said this "you quite literally made this up in your head to justify it(it being your derangement to support an argentine colonial project in the falklands), everyone you don't like is a troll or has some other motivation, and can't simply have come to the position that argentina has no legally valid claim to the island other than a 400 year old treaty?" which didn't deny the existence of trolls, but you specifically implying everyone you disagree with is a troll
What a fucking schizo retard, you make one post making fun of Argie nationalists and apparently that means he has been getting trolled for hoyrs.
>>2805968Even if you go by the original treaty and the stupid uti possesitus juris argument, it STILL doesn't belong to Argentina, because the Spanish had different colonial governors for La Plata and for the Malvinas, meaning Spain saw them as two separate territories when they relenquished possession
>>2805960Wrong. Under the Nootka Sound Convention in 1790, Britain gave up rights to settle in islands of the South Atlantic, including the Falklands.
>>2805967wow! the united states opportunistically takes a centrist position on the issue, precisely because it wants an ally in argentina and in britain, and doesn't want to compromise that either way! crazy that isn't it?
>>2805970Just fuck off back to sharty mate and stop employing an ongoing genocide for your stupid nationalist football rivalries or whatever.
>>2805972they didn't though
>>2805974You are a schizo retard
>>2805978No one in your entire life ever thought you were funny. That's why you need to make fun of dead children on the internet.
>>2805982Yes, we know that you are a monster. Now back to sharty.
>le sharty boogeyman
Truly a fucking schizo
>>2806000milei wants it to give it away to israel for free
it's also why he's making so many infrastructure improvements to patagonia same as his zionist brother in chile
andinia is real 2401
>>2805941>argentine claims to the falklands use the identical logic to zionist claims to palestine.let me see. britain abandoned the falklands after 1774 and several decades later they showed up again to seize them from argentina without provocation, acting like they had divine right over it. hmm, which one sounds more like zionism?
>>2806010sperging over some land being "stolen" that you abandoned hundreds of yers ago sounds more like zionism, especially when another population has occupied the land for some centuries.
thought unlike jews in palestine the argies never had any major controll or settlements on the island so they have an even weaker claim on the falklands then zionists have of israel
i guess norweigans and icelanders have more claim on greenland then the inuits since norse people from iceland and norway settled the island before them.
We must support Norway in their struggle against eskimo imperialism
I hope Britain enforces its claim again because the last time a retarded Argentinian government tried to lay claim to it they were a reactionary right wing regime that got BTFO and lost all credibility, so we should all hope Milei tries to take it and gets BTFO thereby repeating history again.
>>2806000I've met multiple people on the British left who support the Argentinian position on the basis that the war helped Thatcher and then they just kind of work backwards from there.
Even though Argentina's claim is literally just a combination of zionist tier 'it was promised to us 3000 years ago' and Argentinian Lebensraum.
>>2806488instantly iconic
>>2806488Wasnt it Bordiga who said that Hitler was the true revolutionary? lol
>>2806488>>2806502Speaking of, which one of you fuckers reverted my edit to the Amadeo Bordiga wikipedia page at 330 AM?? Your change has already been re-reverted.
>>2806488Every time i unminimized the leftcom poster who flagfags it feels weird to me he's just allowed to explicitly shit-up and not get banned despite a disregard rules. Is he a mod?
>>2806517I find it very likely.
I once went to /meta/ and complained that he breaks rule 14 constantly and in nearly every post he makes.
Then last month I said leftcommunism is a reactionary ideology and got banned for (guess what) rule 14 with the ban expiring only two days ago. Felt almost like a vendetta.
>>2806527Personally I report him and anyone bickering with him in /iran/, so its very notable he's actively not being banned whilst his interlocutors are.
>>2804689we need a new chagosposter but from the falklands to weigh in on this very important issue
>>2806488leftcom flagcuck is an annoying retard but i've never been banned for arguing with him
>>2806488also there is no fucking way he's a mod because he started his own website split from this one bordiga.party
>>2806558>mods never initiate splitsholy lol
also lmao at the full TOR node ban AND massive VPN blacklisting last night
some tech literate leftist chad btfo'd that freak so hard he had to cry to press the ban button again
Bad Empanada sneezes and leftypol is shaking. Lmao.
>>2806848Bad Empanada tongues my anus
>>2806848bad empanada looses his credibility by falling for his own countrys zionist-tier jingoistic nationalist propaganda slop
anglo derangement syndrome runs wild
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