/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>Tel Aviv lie in ruins from constant Iranian missiles.
Israeli construction sector has been almost at standstill since October 7. The damage to infrastructure especially at less critical points has been mounting while the more critical places have been prioritized.

I think it's a bit simplified to suggest that the results of October 7th were all according to what Hamas planned. Just as the war in Afghanistan didn't exactly go as Bin Laden wanted even if the ultimate result was an American defeat. But I do think it's pretty well documented that october 7th was a desperate last attempt to kill the Abraham Accords which would have buried the Palestinian cause once and for all.

>>2810250
10/7 actually accomplished its goal. Israel was just about to get normalized in MENA for this attack to completely decimate Israel's PR and let particularly young people see the true face of the Zionist state. History may end up saying that 10/7 is the beginning of the end of Israel. That is not getting into the possibility of a potential Israeli civil war

>>2810257
>possibility of a potential Israeli civil war
On what fucking lines would this be fought? I think it's more likely that Israel just spirals down into even more erratic and sadistic failed state that keeps bleeding people, money and public image till it finally self destructs.

>>2810144
Israel is definitely on the back foot but anything can change.
They are 100% dependent on the US. If US were to ever withdraw support then the entire country would collapse in a week, without exaggeration. Shit would go down and a huge chunk of Israelis would flee the country, creating total instability, which neighboring countries (no longer being held back by the US) would take full advantage of.
That's why the US's role in this is so important. We need as many anti-Zionists in power as possible.

>>2810261
It will got the way of Apartheid South Africa. The Apartheid government left the country ransacked and barely functional by the time it finally fell. That is Israel's future.

>>2810278
and then ex-Israelis are gonna be just as annoying and destructive as Boers (Musk, Thiel, etc)

>>2810281
And they will have the 'muh antisemitism' shield to hide behind in one form or another.

The Israeli bourgeoisie has been doing nothing but winning

It has sustained less than 1/1000th the casualties of the October war which it outlived.

It has destroyed productive forces and created new opportunities for investments (the whole purpose of the war)

Israel will never collapse without international revolution

Let the cope commence

Israelis can't breed

>>2810289
>Israel will never collapse without international revolution
That's such a silly, vague idea. Are you just saying that every regime in the world is safe until there is a global proletarian revolution? Because Apartheid South Africa, Rhodesia, etc etc did not wait until the 'international revolution' to collapse and neither will Israel.
The Israeli Bourgeoisie is still beholden to the dynamics of trying to uphold a settler-colonial ethnostate which will inevitably set itself on fire. And more importantly, beholden to the American bourgeoisie who may soon have to weigh up the cost and benefit of continuing Israel as an island of US interests in the Middle East.
Factors outside of a nebulous 'international revolution' can, in fact create political change

Anything you need to maintain human life in Gaza is if not gone, the mostly gone. Israel won by a lot.

Bernie is winning, winning, lost! Gaza is winning, winning, lost! Iran is winning, winning…

>>2810859
The comparison with Rhodesia and South Africa misses the fact that the settlers in those states were massively outnumbered by natives. That is not the case in Israel.
>>will inevitably set itself on fire
Native Americans say hello.

>>2810144
israel will be palestine again by 2030

They lost the war of words

>>2810965
~7 million palestinians vs ~7 million fascists. the numbers are actually pretty bad for zionazis.

TRVKE

>>2811730
what a sad self-contradictory little man.

to summarise: he's advocating for a revisionist form of kahanism that is nationalist, independant of the US, and non-hostile to the palestinians. this is fucking absurd! he betrays himself by advocating for a disentanglement of jewish and american interests whilst not being able to distinguish jews in israel and the USA.

there was a nationalist zionist movement before kahane: bundist labor zionism. what happened to it? when the USSR dissolved and israel got the bomb there was no value in maintaining the charade.

he's putting the cart before the horse by advocating for a movement to change economic and political realities. in practice the economic and political reality of zionism dictates the relation that zionism has with capital: their state needs infusions of money because it can't renew or perpetuate itself without violence and conflict.

there's no jewish national liberation movement in palestine because there hasn't been a jewish nation for 2000 years: far longer than there is any meaningful claim to the land. the zionists in palestine were put there by the british during their war with muhammad ali pasha. every zionist from theodore herzl onwards knew this was a colonial project of displacement and weren't coy about it at all.

no amount of posturing will change the basic facts of the situation, but posturing is all he can do.

Two more weeks and Zionism will be in the dustbin of history… two more weeks.

They’re running out of reservists, unless they can get the US to join them on the ground in both Syria and Lebanon the army is close to collapsing

>>2811849
I understand the skepticism. I'm sure zionism will continue to persist as a tradition of dead generations. the problem is there are a number of practical issues and contradictions that when considered together should be considered dire existential risk.

> loss of patronage
israel used to skate in US politics as a foreign policy issue for libs. as yanks face an indefinite fuel crisis and conscription this is no longer the case. recent polls reflect this new reality, as does your presence.

> lack of regional allies
with the latest gulf crisis the abraham accords are breaking apart. this is returning israel to it's historical norm of being situated amongst nations they have antagonised to the point of hostility. the effort being put into courting greece is telling: but greece has no money and no real dog in the fight.

> toxic association
in spite of massive censorship and repression, even casual association with israel is social, political, and economic suicide. the growing legitimacy and effectiveness of BDS is growing harder to hide. this has dire consequences for trade and diplomacy.

> unavoidable economic recession
the powerhouse of the israeli economy was tech, many of these companies have reincorporated overseas. the workforce has been called into the army, or fled. agriculture and manufacturing are struggling to find markets to export, agriculture is particularly vulnerable to logistical disruptions. israel's credit is shot and financing reconstruction will be difficult. lack of economic opportunity will deter settlers and immigration.

> military attrition
war on 7 fronts is unsustainable for any nation let alone Israel. their soldiers, money, and logistics are stretched extremely thin while goodwill and diplomatic support are petering out. their heavy arms, nuclear arsenal, and doctrine are all predicated on fighting arab armies: their missile defense is designed to counter scuds not hypersonics, the trophy system doesn't even register drones or close quarter RPGs let alone stop them, and nuclear deployment would end whatever consent their strained regional partnerships earn them.

> breakdown of western liberal orthodoxy
the so called "two-state" solution has been thoroughly discredited by facts on the ground. it's now commonly referred to with derision and considered either rhetorical defense of apartheid or a non-goal to perpetuate genocide. israel's capacity to exist as a jewish theocracy with liberal characteristics requires international consent, which is rapidly shifting towards a post-apartheid rainbow nation, if not dissolution of israel and landback for palestinians.

personally I'm betting no israel by 2030. I think the possibility of an offramp and normalization has been effectively hamstrung by the fascist coalition controlling the knesset, but by doing this they've guaranteed the state will fail catastrophically. there's no pressure release: it cannot curtail corruption, and it cannot reform.

>>2810257
>completely decimate Israel's PR and let particularly young people see the true face of the Zionist state
the concept of public relations was, of course, developed by that Freud nephew Bernays. the original Jewish psyop guy

>>2810287
>they will have the 'muh antisemitism' shield to hide behind in one form or another.
gen alpha teens learning about the holocaust are laughing more than those black kids watching that Spielberg slop movie Schindler's List