anarchist here. so i have been thinking about this a lot lately. should we be doing things to literally "seize" the means of production by producing goods and services in our own homes (for those of us lucky enough to have homes), and then giving these goods and services to others (mainly people we know such as friends etc. but giving to strangers is based too) free of charge? a sort of underground gift-based economy, that is? obviously this cannot substitute entirely for collective workers' struggle and i don't think we should stop doing that. i do think that building an underground gift economy based on homemade goods could be very beneficial to the cause of liberation though. did you know that there are fruits and vegetables you can literally grow indoors?
Imagine all the materials, labor and energy you need to steal from the third world, just to sustain a shitty indoor green house in the Northern hemisphere to grow a few carrots. Imagine a Bangladeshi oil rig worker reading this post right now.
>>2817466Imagine all the materials, labor and energy you need to steal from the third world, just to shitpost on an imageboard
>>2817467No one is trying to pass off shit posting on image boards as revolutionary praxis, both things are circle jerking, that's the point.
>>2817464these people are larpers, you don't pretend to seize a city block that the police are just going to break up in a few weeks (at best) anyway. you do things clandestinely. you try to look completely normal so the cops don't know you're running an indoor carrot / whatever factory. use liberal property relations against the liberals
>>2817466NOOOOOOO you're not allowed to do leftist things in the west you must sit back and wait for le hecking third world to do the revolution for you!
>>2817472Saying hobby gardening is leftism is like saying playing video games is leftism.
>>2817473what looks like a hobby individually becomes meaningful if a lot of people do it. there's a network effect. I also advocate sharing a single house between a ton of different people. One person may nominally own the unit, but it is getting used by several people, each of which only need to "contribute" (god i hate this word) what they are able to put in.
The amount of goods and services that can be produced in such a way is completely insignificant in relation to the totality of the world economy, which produces trillions of commodities in giant factories with extremely advanced machinery and hundreds of millions of workers working many hours every day
What is it with anarchist and not understanding the scale of the economy? Why does it always come back to "growing beans in my backyard" type shit?
>>2817472>do leftist thingsChrist
>>2817475I don't really think you can compare playing video games to home ownership like this.
>>2817477>What is it with anarchist and not understanding the scale of the economy?Because these people have never actually been inside a factory or worked a manufacturing or productive job, at best they participated in the service economy.
>>2817478when did i ever mention video games? playing video games is obviously not leftist, it's mostly an apolitical distraction, though it can be good for socialization within already-established communities.
>>2817477the amount of goods and services produced under capitalism far exceeds what we actually need. capitalism actually causes overproduction which as marx mentions usually is dealt with by the enforced destruction of goods to prevent crisis. we don't need nearly as much as that.
What’s it like being a willing running dog of imperialism?
>>2817482care to elaborate?
>>2817483Its got the same energy as 'dance away the fascism' - the questions highlight a lack of workable political theory and naivety. You are lost in a maze of intellectual design made by the upper class and have been made into a neutered and defanged dog with no bite and no bark.
>>2817479Neither have I but it's not difficult to understand
>>2817481Im not talking about the overproduced plastic junk that ends up filling the landfills, even if you take all that away under a planned economy, the scale of which Im speaking would still exist and be necessary.
Again, why does it always come down to this "I'll just grow my own beans", "I'll get insulin from my friend with a chemistry degree" shit?
>>2817485i'm not saying you should stop struggling to seize and collectivize the factories and stuff, in my country (imperial core) there are very few actual productive industries that don't involve service work left anyway. believe it or not i have read the literature, i have read marx and lenin etc, i have even slogged through settlers, and i understand your point of view. it's still not going to stop me from doing what i, personally, can do, even if it's not particularly significant.
>>2817487the point is you've been fucked so hard by individualism you think that doing that is anything but a defeat and resignation into never accomplishing anything.
Organize, you cant do it by yourself.
>>2817486>i'll just grow my own beansgrow more beans. scale up the operation to the extent that you can. convince your friends to also grow beans. this isn't a drop-in replacement for actual industry but surely it helps at least a little bit.
>>2817491i'm not going to dox myself to a marxist-leninist organization that has membership dues and compulsory selling of party newspapers and shit. all respect to those who do, but it's not for me. i'll show up to protests when i can, i'll donate to such organizations when i can (i donated my last paycheck after quitting my last job to a communist org)
>>2817492Scale up the bean farm enough and you might find the US government bombing your farm into ashes.
>>2817492Organizing requires some form of vulnerability, if you're more worried about the consequences of doxxing yourself to an ML org vs the five guys shooting you in your sleep you have the wrong priorities.
>>2817493you'll have to excuse me, i hate using AI, which reverse image search obviously utilizes, can you give me some sort of context on what this image is depicting?
also the power of law enforcement needs to be opposed at every opportunity, bourgeois law enforcement is and always has been the problem, you must insist on privacy. honestly i don't like posting on leftypol very often because i've never been able to post on it from tor. every chance you have to make things difficult for 12 must be taken.
if you get put on an organization's membership rolls the government can just subpoena them and immediately get information about any filthy dissidents that may have joined.
>>2817492>grow more beans. scale up the operation to the extent that you canTo what fucking end dude? Any organized industrial farm can produce literal tons of beans in vast quantities, making however much you and your friends can produce in their garden insignificant. What don't you get about that? Why do you refuse to address it?
>this isn't a drop-in replacement for actual industry but surely it helps at least a little bit.Helps to do what? The only thing it accomplishes is growing a few beans for your personal consumption, like how slaves were sometimes allotted their own little vegetable garden to grow their own food for market or consumption. It didn't help them with shit politically and neither does this kind of crap
>>2817496an industrial farm is a centralized point which can be easily controlled by any powerful entity wishing to do so. tens of millions of indoor gardeners cannot be so easily shut down.
like i said, seize the factory, collectivize the farm, it will be good, i support this. but don't be surprised when it eventually ends up in the hands of a degenerated workers state and eventually privatized under dengist-esque policies.
>>2817495It's the black wallstreet massacre in Tulsa
>>2817498>Mobs of white residents, some of whom had been armed and appointed as deputies by city government officials, attacked black residents and their homes and businesses.thanks for the information. yeah the government will just start burning shit down when it wants. i don't really pretend to have a solution for this other than clandestine activity and trying at every instance to preserve your privacy, that's why i think that large-scale industry is in fact important and that it should be pursued. i don't see why both avenues can't be pursued at the same time.
>>2817500oh no not the hecking black businesses
>>2817497>an industrial farm is a centralized point which can be easily controlled by any powerful entity wishing to do so. tens of millions of indoor gardeners cannot be so easily shut down.Why the fuck would any nebulous "powerful entity" (lmfao) shut down food production at a mass scale? Literally the dumbest fucking thing you could do if you were trying to control and pacify the populace. What is this imagined threat you're trying to counter? What is this cope
>like i said, seize the factory, collectivize the farm, it will be good, i support this. but don't be surprised when it eventually ends up in the hands of a degenerated workers state and eventually privatized under dengist-esque policiesSo that's where it ends huh? Now we're coping about "degenerated worker states" "dengism"? Political ideologies that, regardless of whatever critique you might have of them, have accomplished far far, unimaginably more for the prosperity and wellbeing of human beings on this planet than anything anarchism has ever done. Fuck off dude
>muh prosperity
there is a lot of prosperity under capitalism, which the PRC has obviously utilized to a great advantage. the goal isn't prosperity, the goal is communism.
also you can and should have firearms and be trained in their usage.
also the other anon made a point that shoplifting / dumpster diving and then sharing the spoils of that is also effective, possibly more so, than actually trying to self-produce the goods.
to answer your question, the government / state is the "powerful entity" in 99% of cases. if the government owns the farm, it can control where its output goes, forcing anyone who is in bad graces or dire straits to resort to illegalist methods which is less than ideal
i'm not opposed to state ownership of the MoP, in fact I think that the NEP and similar sellout policies such as those propagated by Deng are bad and that the state should own literally ALL of the factories and farms. stalin was right to forcefully collectivize the farms.
but this is where i seriously think that socialist governments get it wrong, they ban their citizens from producing goods for themselves if they so desire. there is absolutely nothing wrong with making your own goods if you want to. sure, ban the sale of such goods for money (money shouldn't exist), but don't make having a large indoor garden or workshop illegal, that's stupid.
>>2817508Capitalism does not currently bring about prosperity and hasn't for more than a century at least and in fact actively hampers it. This is why communism is preferable and inevitable
If prosperity is so easy to garner under capitalism, which the PRC so expertly "utilized", why don't we see other countries make the gains China has? Should be easy no? All you gotta do is be capitalist after all, according to you
>>2817512the CPC has at least ten billionaires as fully-fledged members. billionaires. surely this is evidence of a highly developed and sophisticated socialism.
>>2817512>If prosperity is so easy to garner under capitalism, which the PRC so expertly "utilized", why don't we see other countries make the gains China has? Should be easy no? All you gotta do is be capitalist after all, according to youBecause you need communists driving the bus or all that happens is the wheels spin and you go nowhere as it cannabilizes itself on the flawed logic of liberal capitalism.
And other countries are quite literally doing that, look at Vietnam, look at NK.
>>2817514Could you address my question tho instead of moving on to the next thing?
China's also the only country in history that executes billionaires. Why is that? Why don't other "capitalist" nations do that?
>>2817516surely you would like to share your socialism with chinese characteristics mental gymnastics that justifies the existence of chinese billionaires
anyway, successful capitalist states are the ones that are able to maintain control over the populace and establish a centralized state free of large dissident groups. capitalism requires a strong state to maintain itself properly.
>>2817515>China, Vietnam, NKHmmm and what do those three countries have in common, that other countries don't? I wonder, it's a real headscratcher
>>2817515north korea is the closest thing to an honest socialist state in existence. literally actually existing socialism. it's a shame the leadership is so corrupt because they do so many things right.
This thread is a perfect example of why the Bolsheviks had you killed with extreme prejudice
>>2817520marxist-leninist try not to kill millions of people challenge, impossible mode
>>2817517>surely you would like toSurely you would like to answer my question and not keep avoiding it? I already shared my reasoning that China is the only country in history that kills billionaires, which shows that regardless of their presence, capitalists do not reign supreme. Unlike everywhere else in the world
>anyway, successful capitalist states are the ones that are able to maintain control over the populace and establish a centralized state free of large dissident groups. capitalism requires a strong state to maintain itself properly.I guess not, just moving on to the next non sequitur
>>2817521anarchist try to do anything of note at all challenge
>>2817521millions of people try not to be fascists challenge
>>2817522i did answer your question, capitalism requires a state. the source of prosperity and high gdp etc in capitalist countries is rigorous state intervention in the market. the US does this, literally every rich capitalist country does this. china is not unique in this regard. also executing a couple of billionaires for wrongthink or whatever does not annul the shame of having allowed there to be billionaires in the first place. billionaires shouldn't exist. really, money shouldn't exist, but that's a different topic altogether.
>>2817524everyone who isn't a state capitalist pinko commie is a fascist lol
>>2817525>everyone who isn't a state capitalist pinko commie is a fascist lolnow you get it, now go grow some beans while america rapes the entire world.
>>2817527>while america rapes the entire worldwhat the fuck do you want me to do about it? i don't control the us government. i can protest. they won't listen, but i'll do it. i can refuse to fight if i get drafted. tf you want me to do about imperialism?
>>2817530you wont do anything but grow beans you jewish nigger, like I said you are a dog with no teeth and you will die like one in a ditch the next time they conscript your ass because you did nothing.
>>2817531i won't make it to the ditch, because i will refuse to do the training and shit they make you do before they deploy you to the ditch. i do things other than grow fucking beans, i have donated a very large proportion of my income (at least thirty percent) to various communist organizations, i have protested, i have posted spicy communist memes on /pol/, honestly what more do you want me to do
>>2817532press the communism button NOW
>>2817533>MLs casually supporting mass murderpottery. how about instead of killing these people putting them in mental facilities for the "Nazi" mental illness they clearly have? how about, just, like, not killing people? Nazis love killing people. be better.
>>2817531>jewish niggerreally high caliber of conversation here, very intellectual, very impressive
>>2817535Im quoting marx actually
>>2817536>Karl Marx said "Yeah we killed millions of you Nazi scum and we'll do it again"go back to the sharty or /pol/ or wherever the fuck you came from, you fucking idiot
>>2817538Marx said jewish nigger, you jewish nigger.
>>2817525>did answer your questionYou did not
>capitalism requires a stateThis does not answer why other "capitalist" states don't show the same growth in prosperity that China does, nor why they don't execute billionaires like China does.
>the source of prosperity and high gdp etc in capitalist countries is rigorous state intervention in the market. the US does this, literally every rich capitalist country does thisSo they should be the same, in terms of rising prosperity, in terms of economic growth, in terms of development, but they're not. Why is that? Where are the 800 million other people lifted up out of third world poverty in 30 years in other "capitalist" countries? I don't see them
> also executing a couple of billionaires for wrongthink or whatever does not annul the shame of having allowed there to be billionaires in the first place. billionaires shouldn't exist. really, money shouldn't exist, but that's a different topic altogether.Nothing but moralist drive. Literally no other argument then "well I think it's "wrong""
>>2817539killing enemy combatants is different from executing civilians for wrongthink. you know this though.
i cannot stress this enough, killing people who aren't enemy soldiers is bad. i don't care what they did.
>>2817540marx never said "jewish nigger"
>>2817541most unstable and low-prosperity capitalist countries are chock full of leftist dissident groups, narco traffickers, and far-right and islamist militas
>>2817547yes, obviously sound communist theory is based on the hatred of jewish niggers. pwned
>>2817544>killing enemy combatants is different from executing civilians for wrongthink. you know this though.you support the people who where upholding serfdom and nazism in the USSR, they didnt ask for someone to come try and genocide them and its victim blaming to suggest the state of ultra-violence and paranoia was anything but a response to being aggressed upon, you are deeply naive.
>>2817549okay, so round them up, put them in prison. don't kill them. capital punishment is wrong.
>>2817550I agree on a wider spectrum in a modern reality but thats not what the USSR was, it was a serf society built on slavery and dominated by violence with a genocidal neighbor at its door asking to be let in.
Its obviously not the reality of the situation they had to contend with, your drivel is just sympathy for the slave owners.
>>2817544There's plenty of capitalist states that are not like that and that have similar levels of economic development that China had 30 years ago. Why don't they do what China does? It should be easy dude, all they need according to you is a strong state and some capitalism, easy peasy. Yet China is the only one doing this at any noteworthy scale
>>2817552such xi's dick harder anon
>>2817551you know mr. marx lover you should know that marx himself said that a communist revolution has to happen in a developed capitalist economy not in some backwater where there isn't any running water and half of the population can't fucking read.
>>2817556Should the Haitan revolutionaries just rounded up all the slavers and put them in prison, only for them to get freed the next time capitalists come for them?
Of course not.
Live by the sword, die by the sword. Those that create systems that require savage violence will inevitably have it turned on them.
>>2817535Aww did it trigger you seeing the fate of one of your comrades? Trust me when I say his death was merciful compared to what you and your wannabe bandit Reich will be subjected to by communist militants
>>2817556>such xi's dick harder anonLmfaoooo, no arguments left huh? No answers to my very basic question? A pathetic display, but I'll accept your seething as concession
>>2817559do your worst red fash. when you feed on the suffering of others the most based thing someone can do is just not suffer.
>>2817558>Should the Haitan revolutionaries just rounded up all the slavers and put them in prisonYes.
>>2817560without an example of one of these supposed capitalist states free of political instability yet lacking on prosperity i really don't know what to tell you
>>2817561>Yes.Yeah bro lets just build a bunch of prisons and keep tens of thousands of prisoners fed and clothed when none of us can read and we are literally fighting them off with spears.
Again, naive to the bone.
>>2817561Ironic you call me red fash when the overlap between fascism and anarchism both historically and currently is a circle
>>2817562Also
>anarchist supports prisonslmao
>>2817563say what you want but anarchists have never set up a system of state sponsored mass murder. this is something that fascists and MLs invariably do when they attain power though.
>>2817566no comment.
>>2817562okay, don't imprison them then. deport them to a capitalist country
Nono none of that, you will work 40h a week in a factory your entire life, anything else will be counter revolutionary
I didn't read a single word of this thread lmao
>>2817567the most anarchists have ever accomplished is getting there darling thinker onto epstein island
>>2817556>you know mr. marx lover you should know that marx himself said that a communist revolution has to happen in a developed capitalist economy not in some backwater where there isn't any running water and half of the population can't fucking read.[LOUD BUZZER SOUND] WRONG
<According to my conviction revolution in the explosive form will start this time not from the West, but from the East – from Russia. -Karl Marx 1879 letter to Guesde >>2817569i just refuse to kill people. stay mad. sure you can torture me you can kill me, thereby showing your true colors, but you cannot kill my spirit.
while you fantasize about installing hitlerite communism and gassing all the dissidents i will be building decentralized dual power with my buddies
>>2817569Chomsky didn't write about anarchism, you pseud.
>>2817567>okay, don't imprison them then. deport them to a capitalist countryalso they quite literally did do this, they came back and slaughtered tens of thousands of them, good job!
>>2817572chomsky is an anarchist, a rather pozzed one to be fair, but an anarchist nonetheless
>>2817573oops didn't guard the border well enough. perhaps you should invite red maga to police the border for you
>>2817561Thailand, Romania, Peru
>>2817576>ThailandIs a military dictatorship that cancels every election it doesnt like
>RomaniaA state built on the mass oppression of roma people
>Peruvery unstable
>>2817574Oh wow, one book in the >100 he has done. Truly a theorist of anarchism!
You are a pseud who doesn't read books. Go back to wherever you came form.
>>2817575>chomsky is an anarchist, a rather pozzed one to be fair, but an anarchist nonethelessHe's not an anarchist theorist though, is he, you fucking booklet?
I hate the subhuman illiterates that inhabit this site these days.
>>2817576>thailandexport and tourism economy based mainly on export farming and mining and serving up transhumanists to fat westerners
>romanialiterally nothing wrong with romania, it's a great place
>perupolitically unstable
>>2817579>transhumanistsi meant to say trans women
>>2817581Thats not a book, it's a short article, and it isn't theory.
Kill yourself now, booklet.
>>2817583>chomsky is on record saying he believes in anarchism
<no-no-no that doesnt mean anythingwe get it, you're wrong
you know the sad thing is that i still have some degree of belief in the theory that a period of state directed socialism could eventually lead to stateless communism.
but the MLs and other DOTP supporters always end up supporting inane shit like mass murder of dissidents, extreme suppression of speech and association rights, and perhaps most irritatingly the reestablishment of the capitalist economy when things start to get rough under the command economy
>>2817587We support what works, you support what doesnt.
>>2817589literally the only actually existing socialist state is north korea. and they refuse to use the word "communism" these days unfortunately.
all of the other states ruled by "communist" parties have market economies
the USSR disintegrated.
>>2817585>chomsky is an anarchist thinker<chomsky isn't an anarchist thinker, anarchism barely is mentioned in his work, and only really in passing>nonono you don't understand he said he's an anarchist!!!!Wow you really are a subliterate waste of oxygen. Really no reason to be alive.
After the revolution we're going to put people like you in zoo's and show you to our children as an example to what they'll become if they don't read their books, eat their vegetables and go to school.
>>2817577>Is a military dictatorship that cancels every election it doesnt likeSo? For the argument that's perfectly fine. Strong state, capitalist, so why doesn't it prosper like China does?
>A state built on the mass oppression of roma peopleAgain irrelevant to the discussion
>very unstableIt doesn't have current insurgencies like it did 30 years ago
Why are you even chirping in on this dude?
>>2817579>export and tourism economy based mainly on export farming and mining and serving up transhumanists to fat westernersSo? It's capitalist with a strong state. Where's that prosperity at? Why don't they do what China does?
>literally nothing wrong with romania, it's a great placet. never been to romania. It's impoverished as fuck dude, half the country is leaving because there's simply nothing to be gained there. It is capitalist and has a stable state with no insurgencies or islamists or whatever you were talking about tho, so where's that prosperity again?
>politically unstableIt has a state, it's capitalist, it doesn't have active insurgencies, where's the prosperity?
>>2817591
Chomsky - "I believe in Anarchism'
You >no
ok
>Noam Chomsky: Well, anarchism is, in my view, basically a kind of tendency in human thought which shows up in different forms in different circumstances, and has some leading characteristics. Primarily it is a tendency that is suspicious and skeptical of domination, authority, and hierarchy. It seeks structures of hierarchy and domination in human life over the whole range, extending from, say, patriarchal families to, say, imperial systems, and it asks whether those systems are justified. It assumes that the burden of proof for anyone in a position of power and authority lies on them. Their authority is not self-justifying. They have to give a reason for it, a justification. And if they can’t justify that authority and power and control, which is the usual case, then the authority ought to be dismantled and replaced by something more free and just. And, as I understand it, anarchy is just that tendency. It takes different forms at different times.
>Anarcho-syndicalism is a particular variety of anarchism which was concerned primarily, though not solely, but primarily with control over work, over the work place, over production. It took for granted that working people ought to control their own work, its conditions, [that] they ought to control the enterprises in which they work, along with communities, so they should be associated with one another in free associations, and … democracy of that kind should be the foundational elements of a more general free society. And then, you know, ideas are worked out about how exactly that should manifest itself, but I think that is the core of anarcho-syndicalist thinking. I mean it’s not at all the general image that you described — people running around the streets, you know, breaking store windows — but [anarcho-syndicalism] is a conception of a very organized society, but organized from below by direct participation at every level, with as little control and domination as is feasible, maybe none.
Here, have it in jungle format.
>>2817592>and they refuse to use the word "communism" these days unfortunately.Lie. Shut the fuck up.
Both of you deserve executing.
>>2817594you cannot build a healthy economy on agricultural exports and tourism. policy error.
romania is great, still don't see the problem with romania
peru has several active insurgencies.
>>2817595EXPLAIN TO ME HOW THAT MAKES HIM AN ANARCHIST THINKER YOU FUCKING MONGOLOID.
USE YOUR WORDS, IF YOU ARE EVEN CAPABLE OF WRITING MORE THAN 5 IN A ROW.
>>2817598are you capable of reading? the title of the essay is literally 'the kind of anarchism I believe in'
>>2817596hey, i'm a big fan of north korea. it's my favorite communist country, they do things right. juche is pretty based compared to what passes for socialism in a lot of other places.
>Both of you deserve executing.Not sure who likes killing people more, Nazis or MLs
>>2817600You really are so fucking retarded. go drink your mothers bleach, RIGHT NOW.
>>2817601>Not sure who likes killing people more, Nazis or MLsI'm an anarchist you projecting faggot.
>>2817602your seething highlights how assblasted you are, its pretty funny, thanks for the entertainment - try reading with your eyes next time and not your asshole.
>>2817602>I'm an anarchist you're hecking valid and i believe in you anon.
>>2817597>you cannot build a healthy economy on agricultural exports and tourism. policy error.Just change it and do what China does, should be easy no? They're both just capitalist states according to you. Yet they haven't done this one easy trick any capitalist state should be able to do according to you. How odd…
>romania is great, still don't see the problem with romaniaWe're not talking about your personal opinion of the national character of these states tho. Why you acting dumb? Is it because you got no args?
>peru has several active insurgencies.A few 100 armed guys in some remote valley, completely disconnected from a wider struggle hardly counts as several "active" insurgencies. If that were to count, China has an active insurgency too with the Xinxiang shit, so your whole shred of an argument completely disintegrates
>>2817605>China has an active insurgency too with the Xinxiang shit, so your whole shred of an argument completely disintegratesIts over and solved, they dont. Might want to keep more up to date on the CIA propaganda Mr Langley.
>>2817605it is in fact possible for the governing elite of a country to be stupid and to make stupid decisions.
is it even possible to starve to death in romania?
uyghur dissendency is a hoax. they're just people trying to live their lives.
>>2817607He literally told you his political ideology above and he spent most of his career unconcerned with politics but more focused on Linguistics, once he formed an ideology that he agreed with any works written on politics will inevitably share this world view.
Lets not get into how he was best pals with the director of the CIA.
guys why are we even arguing about whether some cia pozzed epstein bro is an anarchist or not, why are we so off topic
You should literally sieze corporations. It's good that nowadays huge corps pretty much control everything. Ripe for siezing.
>>2817610>He literally told you his political ideology above and he spent most of his career unconcerned with politics but more focused on Linguistics,Lie. He has spent a large part of his career talking about politics, but it is largely things like US foreign policy and Palestine, anarchism does not factor into any of this work.
>once he formed an ideology that he agreed with any works written on politics will inevitably share this world view.Okay, pick up Fateful Triangle or Manufacturing Consent and show me, exactly, how his works are supposedly so informed by this anarchism, i'll wait.
>>2817621Perhaps you should read the book called 'On Anarchism' where he talks about how he is an anarchist.
>>2817625Also manufacturing consent is just a psyopp made in tandem with his pals at the CIA and rips off post-structuralist theory and makes it fucking annoying to read, and then defangs it completely.
pseud
>>2817625YOU DID NOT SIMPLY MAKE THE CLAIM HE IDENTIFIES AS AN ANARCHIST, YOU MADE THE CLAIM HE IS AN ANARCHIST THINKER
SUBSTANTIATE IT, OPEN THE BOOKS AND SHOW ME LIKE
>>2817621 OR SHUT THE FUCK UP. NOBODY NEEDS THIS LEVEL OF PSEUDERY - HUMBLE YOURSELF.
>>2817628
>Also manufacturing consent is just a psyopp made in tandem with his pals at the CIA and rips off post-structuralist theory and makes it fucking annoying to read, and then defangs it completely.NOT WHAT I ASKED. SHOW ME WHERE IT RELATES TO ANARCHISM.
>>2817630Im glad we both agree hes ID's as an anarchist, normally when people do that most people understand that works produced will follow the beliefs of the author in some way.
Might want to get that autism test buddy
>>2817608Yeah I know, but they did have it at some point so China's prosperity should have been halted according to the anon im arguing with. Why are you trying to argue with me lol?
>>2817609So now your argument is that China's governing elite is simply smarter and that's why they raise 800 million people out of poverty and other countries don't? Pure idealism
Is it even possible for you not to move the goalpost? People weren't starving to death in China in the 1990s either, doesn't mean that hundreds of millions of people were dirt poor, which they aren't now
There were actual militants in China killing people anon, sponsored by the CIA and everything. China took care of it tho, I wonder why other countries have such a tough go of doing that
>>2817631>most people understand that works produced will follow the beliefs of the author in some way.<read: I assumed because i am a retarded.Still waiting. If it's so true should be easy to whack out the books and show me, no?
If you're organizing workers well enough and at a big enough scale to do things like create an entie urnderground economy for yourself, while not use those orgaizning skills to fight state power instead and achieve longer term goals?
>>2817634I have provided more than enough evidence to back up my claims, keep crying though.
>>2817637I accept your concession.
Yes, but that's not what seizing the means of production means.
OP is a retarded individualist american retard too disorganized to know how stupid he is.
>>2817446>should we be doing things to literally "seize" the means of productionYes.
> by producing goods and services in our own homesNo.
>>2817722I find it difficult to understand how giving things away without expectation of return or reward and encouraging others to do the same is "individualism," but sure bro.
Given that all of the MLs and DOTPoids here seem to have a hard-on for killing anyone who doesn't agree with them (and even fetishize and revel in such fantasies), I have decided to remove all of the hammer and sickles decals from my backpack, skateboard, guitar, etc etc. and any memeshit i post online will be firmly devoid of soviet-esque symbols. You guys have firmly convinced me that soviet style communism is as much of an enemy as liberalism.
Have fun simping for your "actually existing socialism" states with billionaires and liberalized market economies though.
>>2817779>I have decided to remove all of the hammer and sickles decals from my backpack, skateboard, guitarThis HAS to be a ragebait/trollposting. LMAOOO
>>2817779>I find it difficult to understand how [encouraging individual action like starting a personal hobbyshop in your house] is "individualism,"That much is obvious
>>2817786>Spreading propaganda in plain sight is muh trollingWhatever.
Oh yeah, the tens of thousands of dollars I have donated towards the PSL, CPUSA, RCP, etc over the years will now be donated to more deserving groups.
There's a certain variety of collectivist (I consider myself a collectivist) that says that you can't do anything to change the current state of things, that you must go through the vanguard parties, you must join, you must pay the dues, you must sell the newspapers, you must participate in the polycules, etc. etc. —- and even that doing such actions outside of the correct and appropriate channels is counterrevolutionary, and I'm just not buying it.
This is going to be my last post in this thread. Think of me what you want.
>>2817794collectivists advocate for collective action yes. You are just discovering this now?
>I'm just not buying itBecause you are an individualist
>>2817795Oops I lied. I guess I'm going to post again. If what I am doing and advocate for is individualism, then yeah sure I'm an individualist. I still want communism though.
>>2817798>If what I am doing and advocate for is individualism, then yeah sure I'm an individualistYup, glad we agree
>I still want communism though.Seems counterproductive to be an individualist if you want communism tho
>>2817799Private property is an incoherent concept. I don't support private property. That makes me a communist.
>>2817801That's fine, but then you'd be better off being a collectivist rather than an individualist. Else your tactics will run counter to your goals
>>2817790NOOOO, please keep the hammer and sickle on your skateboard, I am begging you, please.
>>2817808You know, it seems that literally every single internet group I join ends up hating me eventually. I get kicked out of LGBT groups,, I get kicked out of leftist groups, the anarkiddies are the only ones who haven't shunned me yet
>>2817810nice self report
>>2817810>You know, it seems that literally every single internet group I join ends up hating me eventuallylmfao, maybe reflect on this?
>>2817810I get kicked out of liberal groups for leftism, I get kicked out of leftist groups for liberalism. I get kicked out of LGBT groups for conservatism, I get kicked out of conservatism for being a fucking queer ass faggot.
I digress, I think I should turn the computer off for a while.
>>2817814oh no someone has opinions contrary to the orthodoxy of my group, i must shun them like a literal monkey ape
>>2817817Dude you are retarded, it's no wonder you get kicked out of all these social clubs lmfao. Reflect on your behavior rather than dwell in this cope about your opinions being too heterodox for people to handle
>>2817825human nature is stupid. most people have a deep desire to be a part of a cult and are willing to tow the party line to avoid expulsion. it's okay for people to have disagreements. my disdain for the normies is unfathomable.
>>2817826>Le human natureCope. There's no such thing as human nature. It's you who's stupid
>most people have a deep desire to be a part of a cult and are willing to tow the party line to avoid expulsionNot you tho, you strong unique individual you. If only there was a name for people who are the opposite of collectivists
>it's okay for people to have disagreementsThat's not what this is about friend, please quit coping
>my disdain for the normies is unfathomableThat is what a reactionary individualist would say yeah
>muh collectivism
imagine having ooga booga chimpanzee tribe mentality and thinking this is a good thing. people can cooperate without loving or even liking each other.
>>2817830also you know that nazis and fascists are collectivists, right? the ancaps and liberals CLAIM to be individualists but in practice they usually just do whatever the billionaires tell them to do
>>2817831In theory that's true but 9/10 times just ends in a big blow up between people who can't trust each other
>>2817830>Cope. There's no such thing as human nature. It's you who's stupid no such thing as human nature, just the proven tendencies of people over thousands of years of recorded history, no, no human nature here sir
>>2817831You are confusing collectivism with tribalism, not too surprising considering what a retard you are lol
>>2817832>also you know that nazis and fascists are collectivists, right?Yeah man and did you know they were socialists too? They even had socialist in their name WOW.
You are such a moron man
>>2817838>you are confusing collectivism with tribalismyou know what primitive tribes do to people they don't like? they kick them out, cut them off from resources, usually leaving them to roam the wilderness until something terrible happens to them. clearly nothing has changed as herd based social groups do this in modern times without even flinching
>nazis were socialistscome on, don't insult my intelligence. literally everyone knows fascists aren't socialists. collectivist =/= socialist.
>retardwow so edgy, ableism is so based am i right my fellow chuds?
>>2817838Human tendency and behavior is dependent on the environment which is in a process of continual change, therefore there is no static, definable, human nature that can be pointed towards, because it (human behavior and thought) too is always changing
>>2817842the human brain is biologically wired towards certain tendencies, which can only be resisted through active contemplation
>>2817841>you know what primitive tribes do to people they don't like? they kick them out, cut them off from resources, usually leaving them to roam the wilderness until something terrible happens to them. clearly nothing has changed as herd based social groups do this in modern times without even flinchingYes, antisocial retards that are bad for the wellbeing of the group will obviously be kicked the fuck out. It's the only logical thing to do and even anarchists agree on this lol
>come on, don't insult my intelligence. literally everyone knows fascists aren't socialists. collectivist =/= socialistThe point is that despite their socialist and collectivist sounding rhetoric, they were neither, as should be obvious upon analyzing what they actually did and how they operated. Just because they were populists doesn't mean they believed in collectivism you dumb idiot
>wow so edgy, ableism is so based am i right my fellow chuds?cry about it
>>2817850>antisocialspooked, stop talking like a fucking psychiatrist.
what is considered "antisocial" is highly dependent on herd psychology, simply "being rude" without being a threat to anyone or anything is considered antisocial by normies.
>they were neitherFascists aren't socialists but they absolutely are collectivists, they believe in subordinating the individual to the aspect of the organic whole, you must be literally willing to die for your race / group / nation / whatever. this is collectivism.
>cry about itwhy is racism so hated when ableism which is literally the same thing (discrimination based on immutable characteristics) is given a free pass
>>2817849The human brain is dependent on the environment that produces it, the thoughts behaviors and ideas that it produces are thus not natural or innate, but highly contingent. We didn't come up with the steam engine due to some biological wiring, but due to the social conditions in which we found ourselves. So it is with everything
>>2817858the brain has a capacity for generalized intelligence including a rational thought component, but there are absolutely parts of the brain that do not rely on general intelligence and are more like pre-wired circuitry.
>>2817855Yes the social collective decides what is considered antisocial enough to warrant expulsion. No need to cope about it
Fascists are absolutely not collectivists. They believe in private property and individualism, not collective ownership. Tricking the proles into dying for your capitalist masters is not collectivism
Because racism is much more serious business rather than you getting upset people don't like your autistic ass
>>2817861>the social collective decides what is considered antisocial enough to warrant expulsionwhy should the unwashed masses, most of whom have been shown to be extremely fucking stupid, be given a right to decide who is worthy of life? should having bitchy resting face or autism be considered antisocial?
>collectivism means no private propertywhy are you so dense? for the fascist, the individual literally does not exist. there are NO individual rights. people do whatever the group's leaders expect of them.
>racism is much more serious business… autistic assit literally isn't though. discrimination against autists is the modern jim crow.
>>2817859There's nothing "prewired" about it. Especially not circuitry, specifically designed mechanisms with explicit function and purpose. The brain in all its function and behavior is entirely dependent on the environment it exists in, even instinct can only express itself through the world your body inhabits and is informed and constructed by that world
>>2817864holy shit, this is your brain on dialectical materialism. if this were true, fetuses would never consistently grow into adults. not even worth a counterargument tbh.
>>2817863>why should the unwashed masses, most of whom have been shown to be extremely fucking stupidYou are the most retarded person I've talked to in ages. You have no right to call the masses stupid or unwashed.
>why are you so dense? for the fascist, the individual literally does not exist. there are NO individual rights. people do whatever the group's leaders expect of themIt's the opposite you fucking dumbass. Nazis literally prided themselves on standing in opposition to marxist collectivism, while creating their own "racial collectivism", which is not collectivist at all. In the same way they appropriated socialism to their ideology while renouncing bolshevism (actual socialism).
>it literally isn't though. discrimination against autists is the modern jim crowIt literally is not and you should kys for making such jokes
>>2817865I accept your concession.
Yes fetal development is contingent on the environment of the fetus as well and there's nothing innate about it. Many fetuses turn to miscarriage, develop strangely or become troglodyte retards like yourself
>>2817877>you are the most retarded personyou're not the first idiot to call me a retard, and you won't be the last. i graduated high school with all A's, have a bachelor's degree with a 3.5+ GPA, and my intelligence quo.tient score (mods here are ableist based on their le humorous word replacement filter choices BTW, probably going to add this site to my DNS blocklist) was tested at a medical facility to be 130+. cope and seethe.
>it's the opposite you fucking dumbassWe've been over this, collectivism is not communism is not socialism. Collectivism is when the priorities of the group are given supremacy over the priorities of the individual. Collectivist ideologies require the individual to sacrifice his or her individual wants or needs to the needs of the group, or, more commonly in practice, its leadership.
>It literally is notI got fired from my minimum wage service industry job because a strong independent Black woman driving a luxury vehicle complained about me "snatching" her credit card while ringing her up. Autists have it worse than black people these days.
>You should kysKilling yourself is based if you find yourself in a system of oppression and you don't want to be exploited. Not gonna lie I have mad respect for those who are ballsy enough to kill themselves. I'm too weak to do it though.
>Fetal development is contingent on the environment… blah blah blah…. blah blah blah…. yadda yadda yaGo outside and take a walk in the woods. Take note of the different species of plants and animals you see. You notice how different they are? You notice their bodily shape, their physiological niches, and their behaviors? This is all determined by genetics. No amount of environmental difference will make an oak seed grow into a maple.
>troglodyte retardsAbleism is so fucking based, guys. Look at me, guys, I hate people with congenital brain differences. Aren't I based?
>>2817885STRINOID DETECTED
>>2817897>Trees just naturally do thisIt's clear you don't know much about biology because organisms can adapt. Trees don't have a general reasoning facility like humans and certain higher creatures such as corvids and dolphins do but they absolutely can dynamically adapt to their environment. This doesn't change the fact that the blueprint for the organism comes from its genetics.
>false collectivismUsing established political science terms in nonstandard ways is pretty based, I suppose. You keep doing it. Doesn't make it right, but you should always think independently after all.
>No way dude"Retard" is just a word used by assholes to label those who are neurodivergent. It says nothing about intelligence, which by every metric I am not lacking in.
>If you're gonna act like a retard expect to be called oneFirstly, "retard" is a slur used to mock neurodivergent people. It says nothing about intelligence. You don't "act like" a retard, you are BORN a retard. But you know this.
>>2817905No you can act retarded as well, some people are born that way sure, but if I go out and cover myself in shit and start clapping as hard as I can I think it'd be a fair assessment.
>>2817928>but if I go out and cover myself in shit and start clapping as hard as I can…You got a thing against Indians now? Fucking racist. SMH
>>2817905>It's clear you don't know much about biology because organisms can adaptNot only can they adapt, they must continuously adapt to survive and reproduce, in other words they are contingent on their environment. Glad we agree, I accept your concession again
>still talkin bout blueprints as if someone designed every organism in a workshoplmao
>You simply must stick to my liberal definitions!! They're established!!!!gigalib
>It says nothing about intelligence, which by every metric I am not lacking in.>It says nothing about intelligence. You don't "act like" a retard, you are BORN a retard. But you know this.Keep coping retard
>>2817934>lysenkoism>lamarckismYou should really read a book about biology.
>blueprintsGod isn't real. The genetic code contains the blueprint for the organism. This genetic code was shaped by billions of years of natural selection. It's not hard to understand.
>gigalibI mean, if you want to define words to mean whatever the fuck you want them to mean, which is pretty fucking based to be fair, go ahead. Sure, fascism isn't collectivist. It's false collectivist.
>retardYou really love using slurs, don't you? You ever been to /pol/ on this site called 4chan? I think you'll fit in just fine there. Perhaps you should give it a visit.
>>2817940Nothing I said has anything to do with lysenkoism or lamarkism
>God isn't realYet you argue like he is, curious
>This genetic code was shaped by billions of years of natural selectionIn other words, it is shaped by and dependent on the environment. Glad to accept your concession once again
>Sure, fascism isn't collectivist. It's false collectivist.Yup, just like it wasn't socialist either. Not super tough to get
>You really love using slurs, don't you? You ever been to /pol/ on this site called 4chan? I think you'll fit in just fine there. Perhaps you should give it a visit.I think that's more your scene, seeing as that place is filled to the brim with anti social retards seething about "normies"
>>2817946The environment doesn't magically change an organism's genetic code. Changes in a species' genetic code are produced by RANDOM mutations which are then SELECTED when an organism lives or dies due to the RANDOM genetic mutations.
>I think that's more your sceneYou're a Leninist, right? Aren't you Leninists all about getting together a secret cadre of trained Marxist revolutionary professionals to clandestinely lead the masses? Lenin was pretty based in this regard. I agree with Lenin on this.
>>2817952thats why hydroponics arent a thing
>>2817951I'm not steeped enough in Marxist lore to know who the two people in your meme are, unfortunately.
See my other post, here I'll quote it:
>The environment doesn't magically change an organism's genetic code. Changes in a species' genetic code are produced by RANDOM mutations which are then SELECTED when an organism lives or dies due to the RANDOM genetic mutations. >>2817955It is Lysenko and Foucault, I wouldnt call the latter a marxist, he is a post-modernist.
Also yeah duh, the enviroment still plays a role in the yield of a plant - Lysenko produced better yeilds than all his opponents and increased rice yields by 20% right after a famine.
He made mistakes but guess what;
>>2817958There are unironic Lamarckians on this board. What the fucking hell. Do you even science. You can test this shit in the comfort of your own fucking home with a DIY biology kit (careful not to give yourself a nasty disease when working with microorganisms, now. always use lab safety.)
>>2817958Also critics of Lysenko often neglect to mention the USSR was recovering from 11 million people being killed and the entire USSR having to rebuild, its pretty obvious when why the checks and balances fucked up if you dont swallow nazi propoganda
>>2817952>The environment doesn't magically change an organism's genetic codeIt changes their expression and function through epigenetics tho.
>You're a Leninist, right? Aren't you Leninists all about getting together a secret cadre of trained Marxist revolutionary professionals to clandestinely lead the masses? Lenin was pretty based in this regard. I agree with Lenin on this.That has nothing to do with you being an antisocial retard who seethes about "normies"
>>2817962>There are unironic Lamarckians on this board.Missing the nuance, I know he was wrong, I just also know what he did right which is a lot - its why the USSR always held him up as a hero in spite of it all.
>>2817964>muh epigeneticsTwo more weeks and epigeneticists will lead us into the glorious rapture of transhumanist ecstasy!
>antisocial>retardThe mental health establishment is not your friend. They exist to promote incarceration and to sell drugs. You should really stop swallowing their propaganda hook line and sinker.
>>2817970>no argI accept your concession once again. That's like the fourth time dude. So much for the high intelligence
>The mental health establishmentI'm not diagnosing you dumdum
>>2817976*sigh*
I'm done here.
This site is going into my pihole's hosts file for being admin'd by people who think ableism is funny.
>>2817979retarded jewish nigger
>>2817979>le sighkys retard
>>2817981>>2817983Based on your behavior I'm convinced this site is some kind of right-wing psyop.
>>2818034I thought you were done trolling here. Fuck off already
>>2818059Hey, if you want to behave like a Nazi and spew racial slurs on an ostensibly leftist website, be my guest. The fact that saying the N-word doesn't permaban you on sight is a sign this is a honeypot.
>>2818067if marx can say it, so can this anon
>>2818068This isn't the nineteenth century. Marx isn't a god. Do better.
(Jewish nigger) >>2818069seems like something a jewish nigger would say
Doing your best to make leftism look bad. How much you getting paid in Tel Aviv?
>>2818075I agree OP is making leftism look retarded, glowie behavior fr
>>2818076I've never been a big fan of chan culture, you are a disgusting troll and if I saw you in real life I would put drugs in your pocket and call the cops.
>>2818075oh no, leftist will look bad on armenian basket weaving forum!!!
Disingenuous.
You are probably an admin here too.
I hate trolling "culture." I hate chan "culture." Moot will burn in the pits of hell.
>>2818081
You're not a comrade. You're either a Mossad or a CIA agent.
I am a leftist looking for leftists to talk about leftist things with. Unlike you, who are probably sitting in a nice high-rise office somewhere east of Gaza.
Joking about mass murder and ha ha n***ers love watermelons amirite bros has never been funny
>>2818085Normally within China 'to be a leftist' requires you actively be part of a political organization that promotes leftism, you get kicked out of all of them.
>>2818088>muh organizationsYou know you're a nazi, right?
>>2818089
Stop being disingenuous you fucking glowie.
>>2818088Also read some official chinese government literature, leftism is considered a crime in China
>>2818096I meant communist, my point stands.
>>2818091Whatever jewish nigger, get in the oven.
>>2818099I reported you. If the mods don't ban you for what you just said this site is a glowie honeypot confirmed.
I will be taking screenshots.
(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) >>2818106Sounds like a convenient excuse to be racist if you ask me.
>>2818107reported for idpol
>>2818109I knew this site was run by neo-nazis. I've been lurking for years, it all makes sense now. I have the receipts and will be publishing my findings.
>>2818111where will you be publishing your results, on here?
https://www.idf.il/en/ >>2818119HOLY FUCK. IT'S TRUE. THIS SITE LITERALLY IS RUN BY NAZIS. HOLY FUCKING SHIT.
>>2818120double jewish nigger (its ok i am black)
I'm screenshotting the hell out of this shit.
>>2818125me too its really funny
Well, the fact that the Nazi website is opposed to my ideas means that they are correct. Thanks for verifying :3
>>2818129Be honest anon, it's ok. Do you have autism?
>>2818129hes going to start the revolution single handily with no help what so ever when he publishes his paper on why he is a retarded double jewish nigger
This is my official last post here, then it's going in the hosts file. Thanks for verifying that my ideas about dual power are in fact correct.
>>2818131I believe this is a guy from lainchan, who was similarly annoying and anal about stuff.
>>2818131There's nothing wrong with having autism, autistic people are smarter than neurotypicals.
>>2818135if that's the price, i ain't payin' it
>>2818133its not an airport
>>2818135There's nothing wrong with having autism, I just want to confirm that you do
>>2818136Autistic wizards learn to invert the satanic id drive and turn what would be suffering to a normie into an ecstasy of unspeakable delight. You wouldn't understand because you're a slave to your id. As I said, autists are smarter than NTs and have a higher degree of empathy.
Last post for real.
>>2818145his handlers in Tel Aviv are pulling him out, oi vei!
>>2818145and yet, they are uneable to say two simple words: jewish nigger
>>2818145God it must be awesome to be this delusional. Imagine the euphoria
>>2818153Get into magick. Your consciousness is malleable.
>>2818155Come and take it.
>>2818168>RasputinCharlatan, like literally every public-facing occultist to ever exist.
>>2818175Yes, I suppose he did. Good for him, I'm sure it brought him fulfillment and satisfaction.
>>2818177His secret technique was that he knew women could orgasm, which wouldn't become public knowledge in russia until after the revolution. You could learn a thing or two from this guy anon
>>2817446>literally "seize" the means of production >by producing goods and services in our own homes this is literally not seizing anything and simply trying to start your small business
>and then giving these goods and services to others […] free of chargewait not a business, a charity
>underground gift-based economyit will be simply irrelevant to the economy at large. Theres a reason we produce shit in massive factories and big machines, and that the rich and powerful own these. Go read some marxist theory
Unique IPs: 19