/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

Okay, and? How do Palestinians benefit from you throwing a Molotov at Tisch School of the Arts?

>>2818296
Explain for the ignorant.

>>2818302
Don't worry about it

>>2818305
How do Palestinians benefit from attacking an arts university?

>>2818307
It helps to delegitimise Israel if no Western organisations would associate with them

>>2818307
Who mentioned attacking or molotovs, shlomo?

>>2818310
Elaborate. NYU has an endowment in the billions. A few broken windows won’t change that.

I wonder if NYU teaches courses on kapparos and metzitzah b’peh.

>>2818276
Why should anyone care?

>>2818356
>Elaborate. NYU has an endowment in the billions. A few broken windows won’t change that.
it's a glowie thread. the real target is the MIC, but glowies always want you to attack random unimportant shit with only symbolic importance.

>>2818413
I'm in no way a Zionist and I' don't want to give that impression, but let's be honest here: the Palestine solidarity movement has become batshit insane.

It's getting to the point where anyone who's affiliated with anyone who's affiliated with a "Zionist institution" deserves to be punished. Enrolling in NYU? You're complicit in genocide. Read a book by an Israeli author? You're complicit in genocide. Gone to a concert to see an artist that has played in Israel before? You're complicit in genocide. Ate some bagels from a bagel place run by a Jewish guy with Israel citizenship? You're complicit in genocide. When does it fucking end?

People who have nothing to do with the bloodshed in Gaza are being targeted simply because they have some vague relationship to people who are. Like, does the guy running the kosher deli deserve to have his deli firebombed because his nephew lives in Israel?

We don't need to attack every single little thing. We need to attack the corporations that are facilitating this genocide, not random people.

What's the point of coming to leftypol when it has been taken over by Mossad and their hasbara bots?

>>2818604
It's another iteration of Christian guilt etc. Western leftists continuously decide to choose Christianity over materialism, every time.

>>2818604
>anyone who's affiliated with anyone who's affiliated with a "Zionist institution" deserves to be punished.
Yes.
>ancom flag
>little bitch carrying water for fascists
checks out

>>2818633
>little bitch carrying water for fascists
capitalism/imperialism is a totalitarian system, you cannot avoid it, you are always by some measure carrying water for fascists and declaring an absolute measure for a relative fact is a childish tactic, burdened with anarchist spontaneity and roadlessness

>>2818633
absurd, unrealistic, ape-like view of the world

>>2818634
true, a lot of people forget that simply by existing, by acting within a world, you are in a sense, complicit, you are making these things happen, but often this reallization leads to these types of moralization, that because you are aiding unjust systems merely by existing, that you have to lash out at everyone else

>>2818634
At least I'm not making "oh think of the poor, innocent Zionists!! ;_;" posts on the internet.
>>2818636
Do you think we shouldn't kill Nazis or their collaborators either?
>>2818637
There's a difference between being complicit and actively defending Zionists.

>>2818633
And?

>>2818642
>Do you think we shouldn't kill Nazis or their collaborators either?

Who counts as a "collaborator?"

>>2818642
>At least I'm not making "oh think of the poor, innocent Zionists!! ;_;" posts on the internet.
you're fighting ghosts bro

>>2818604
Because they keep putting all their eggs in the basket of Palestine having an "Algeria" scenario whereby all the Jews leave within a short amount of time. They have no other plan if this doesn't happen. So, they think physically attacking anyone or anything related to Israel is justified.

>>2818642
>There's a difference between being complicit and actively defending Zionists.
and you define this how? that could literally mean anything from someone reading a book by an israeli or donating money directly to israel
>Do you think we shouldn't kill Nazis or their collaborators either?
again, what's the point of impotently fantasizing about killing BadEvilPeople when you know? it's the ideology of an ape lashing out at his fellow chimps for being in vague proximity to something that is decidedly not good

>>2818276
OP, ever thought of interviewing Palestinian students at NYU and asking them about their experiences?

>>2818604
I fail to see how this is a problem. If anything, universal repulsion towards anything and anyone related to israel and zionism is a good thing

>>2818675
>If anything, universal repulsion towards anything and anyone related to israel and zionism is a good thing

How do you justify physically assaulting someone for eating a bagel made by a guy who happens to have Israeli citizenship?

>>2818676
Yeah it's good, people should fear going to a shop that is owned by a nazi

>who happens to have Israeli citizenship?
Lol @ this phrasing. He can renounce his citizenship of the nazi apartheid state you know?

>>2818677
What makes you assume he holds Nazi-esque views?

"All Israelis are Nazis" – by that logic, B'tselem is a "Nazi" organization?

>>2818677
>He can renounce his citizenship of the nazi apartheid state you know?

And Americans can choose to stop paying taxes because they don't want to keep funding the genocidal war machine, yet they choose complicity over spending a few short months in jail, got it.

>>2818683
>what about the 1% of innocent jews
Who cares? Israel works on the basis that it's okay to kill 100 innocents to get one enemy. The feeling is mutual.

>>2818604
The Palestine movement has largely failed. If anyone thinks attacking random Jews on the basis of "anti-Zionism" is some kind of win for the Palestinian people, they are beyond retarded.

The Palestine movement has, by in large, failed to metabolize the lessons of the 90s and early 2000s anti-globalization movement, mid-and-late 2000s Anti-Iraq War movement and finally Occupy Wall Street when American leftism hit its climax. Specifically, that the masses of people are looking for structure, strategy and consistency. The above said movements were merely a boom-bust cycle of street protests that lacked any coherence or strategy: take to the streets, escalate (smash windows, set cars on fire), get arrested, pay the fine and bail out, rinse and repeat. Nowhere was there any real attempt to force immediate material concessions from the capitalist state. The Palestine protests fall into this exact trap: get thousands of people on the streets with Palestinian flags and keffiyehs, march for three hours, some will get arrested for doing more drastic forms of protests, bail imprisoned comrades out, post on social media so that others can see you as a martyr. Where is the structure or consistency in this?

After October 7th, there was a huge sense of urgency whereby moral nuance went out the window. Anything, even the smallest of actions, was seen as "good for Palestine" because we were all compelled to act. No one wanted to sit down and THINK about what strategy to help the Palestinians would be successful in doing so. Hell, most activists can't even define what a "victory" for Palestine looks like, or what steps the western left needs to take to help them achieve that victory. Likewise, no one in pro-Palestine circles has any strategy beyond what activists have already been doing for nearly three years now: mass protests, boycotts, vote against AIPAC-funded politicians. When asked what the left ought to do that it hasn't already been doing, there's complete silence.

>>2818689
I don't expect the Israeli army to hold any moral compass.

I do, however, expect leftists to do so.

>>2818689
We aren't Zionists and we actually have respect for human life to the point where we go out of our way to avoid collective punishment. I'm not going to blow up a synagogue even if only one single Jew praying in there is anti-Zionist and the rest are hardcore Likudniks, because I know better. No one has ever been able to prove that adventurism has any use to the left anyway (sporadic violence is always a right-wing tactic, never a leftist one).

NYU seems based. They're definitely going into my shortlist.

>>2818696
No one's talking about killing innocent, jew boy, stop putting words in our mouths. That's more your style.

>>2818700
>jew boy
Interesting you had to resort to using the word "Jew".

>>2818702
Interesting that you think it's a slur

>>2818693
>>2818696
Don't respond to that guy. He's obviously a troll.

>>2818683
He holds citizenship to a nazi apartheid state

Btselem as an organization has an active record of opposing zionism. There's no reason to assume an israeli bagelshop owner is doing the same. The opposite is in fact much more likely

>>2818685
Paying taxes is a requirement anywhere, retaining your citizenship for a genocidal apartheid state which you don't even live in, which you only have because of the racial supremacist foundations of said country, is not

>>2818725
>He holds citizenship to a nazi apartheid state

So what? Is every American guilty of America's crimes?

>which you only have because of the racial supremacist foundations of said country, is not

And the American war machine? What's stopping you from refusing to pay taxes to the US government out of concern for the people the US routinely bombs? Is that any different from a bagelshop owner keeping his Israeli citizenship?

Or better yet, what's stopping the "good" Americans from abandoning America all together and moving elsewhere?

And above all, how is attacking random people with Israeli citizenship worthwhile praxis at all? Nobody cares about "moral" imperatives to attack Israelis, we want to know how it leads to any better conditions for the Palestinian people at all.

>>2818725
If the left had an actual coherent strategy for Palestine, that Israeli bagel shop owner wouldn’t even be on their radar.

Tell me, what does a “victory” for Palestine look like to you?

What should the left be doing to help the Palestinian people achieve that victory, that it hasn’t already been doing for the past three years?

>>2818696
Lenin did oppose individualist adventurism as well, but yh. I don’t think there’s any solution short of trying the electoral method for pushing state-level BDS for the country you’re in, get unions to organise mass strikes to pressure the government of your country into cutting ties with Israel (assuming they haven’t done so + your country has well-organised labor unions), or ditch electoralism in favour of militantism.

As for American and European leftists trying the electoral routes, remember:

1. In American politics, it’s difficult to get elected beyond the gubernatorial level since most candidates for positions higher than local mayor get heavily scrutinised by both the RNC and the DNC for loyalty to Israel, not to mention the outsized funding Zionist candidates get in comparison to those that aren’t.
   
   
2. In European politics, good luck having a political career without being screened for ideological loyalty to both the USA and Israel by taking a trip to Washington D.C.
   
   

I don’t think anybody here will ever get the US government and the EU to do BDS on Israel (their welfare queen), so your best bet is to organise your community along a vanguardist line and get passive people to be pissed about Israel, which requires less logical Socratic methods of debates and more populistic pedestrian talking points like

>“Isn’t it weird how our elected representatives care more about the welfare of Israel over that of our own country, which is declining with the government doing next to nothing to reverse this awful trend?”

Even having a 80% passive and 20% split between zios and anti-zios would be ideal for us as such a situation would be ripe for anti-imperialist action as well as organise an actual organisation resistance that won’t be easily propagandised or at least unwilling to follow Zionist diktats.

Because across the west, state repression via the lumpenised neo-blackshirts and mass surveillance will be the “new normal”, so having the left be more militant beforehand would be good.

Because if you want leftists to survive the next decade, then you’d ideally want them to have a safety net to fall back on in the form of an actual organisation with clear collective objectives and organisational ethos, as opposed to being atomised and disorientated.

>>2818733
>So what?
So he could easily choose to renounce his nazi citizenship and it wouldn't affect him negatively in the slightest.

>Is every American guilty of America's crimes?
I didn't say anything about anyone being guilty of crimes. Though if you're an israeli citizen, chances are obviously much higher that you were an idf soldier or are just a raging zio in general

>And the American war machine? What's stopping you from refusing to pay taxes to the US government out of concern for the people the US routinely bombs? Is that any different from a bagelshop owner keeping his Israeli citizenship?
I already answered this? Why are you asking it again? It's obviously different than retaining your nazi citizenship when you don't have to at all

>Or better yet, what's stopping the "good" Americans from abandoning America all together and moving elsewhere?
Sure I would be in favor of that as well

>And above all, how is attacking random people with Israeli citizenship worthwhile praxis at all? Nobody cares about "moral" imperatives to attack Israelis, we want to know how it leads to any better conditions for the Palestinian people at all
It's a form of showing zero tolerance for nazi zionists and their patrons. Idk how "effective" a random attack is as praxis, but I simply said I see no problem with it. Crying about "well why don't you also attack americans???" "Well why don't you stop paying taxes??" is just cope. I'd see no problem with that either, but the zeitgeist is nowhere near that, so it's pointless to abstractly support things that haven't happened and aren't happening.

>>2818740
Idk dude, I'm no Lenin. I simply don't give a shit about some Israeli getting his shit kicked

>>2818604
Extremely rare ancom trvke

>>2818780
So you’re admitting you have no real strategy and simply want to unleash your anger out on someone who has nothing to do with the issue you’re against. Okay.

Seems like you believe symbolic targets are legitimate, no?

>>2818780
>It's a form of showing zero tolerance for nazi zionists and their patrons.
AKA adventurism mixed with collective punishment

How do you determine who a “patron” is?

>>2819155
>>2819157
Again, I am not advocating this or that as a political strategy. I simply see no problem with there being pushback of any kind against any and all things related to zionism. Whether that's people being angry at someone for going to a zio bagelshop or if they hoist a flag calling zios nazis over a zio university, doesn't matter. For the most part the impact will be positive to neutral. Pearl clutching about this is ridiculously

>>2819176
ignore the hasbara agents.

>>2819176
It’s not an effective strategy. We don’t base out praxis on what’s “justified” but on what materially helps us win our goals.

>>2819176
What the left needs to ask itself in this regard is why it makes any effort to justify attacking “tertiary” targets. For instance, is it justified for a pro-Palestine activist to firebomb a Starbucks in the middle of the day when customers are inside on the basis that “they deserved it” for violating BDS?

And if attacking Israelis on the basis they “won’t give up their citizenship” is a worthwhile idea, why do people keep inviting Ilan Papé to speak when he’s still an Israeli citizen? It’s obvious the people who make such polarized statements such as “all Israelis are ontologically evil” don’t even believe such a thing.

>>2818276
Okay, and? What’s the plan here? Lead a mass boycott movement against NYU? Physically attack NYU faculty in the streets until they quit teaching there? Go after NYU students and tell them to transfer/drop out “or else?”

>>2818276
My cousin attended NYU. She said the student body is made up of rich kids who couldn’t get into Columbia. Basically the Dubai of universities.

>>2818691
>If anyone thinks attacking random Jews on the basis of "anti-Zionism" is some kind of win for the Palestinian people,
Nobody thinks that. Glowposting should be an instaban.

>>2818691
Ziorats should be treated worse than Nazis. Nazis hid their crimes, Zios brag about theirs out in the open.

Posting the address of the school Clive Davis owns, for no reason.

>>2819366
Is there any evidence Davis is linked to Epstein?

>>2818691
Best analysis I’ve read all day.

>>2818691
>Likewise, no one in pro-Palestine circles has any strategy beyond what activists have already been doing for nearly three years now: mass protests, boycotts, vote against AIPAC-funded politicians. When asked what the left ought to do that it hasn't already been doing, there's complete silence.

Well one thing the left needs to do is stop obsessing over celebrity activists like Hasan Piker, Greta Thunberg, Chris Smalls, Ms. Rachel, Kehlani, and Vic Mensa to name a few and start focusing on actual Palestinians. How many times has a celebrity activist faced public repression for speaking out against Zionism and raises $30,000 for themselves via GoFundMe, when that $30,000 could have been raised for Palestinian families in Gaza? Or how the flotilla activists are receiving so much money and support when they know full well the Zionist authorities won’t let them into Gaza, making the flotillas merely a stunt?

When Elias Rodriguez goes to trial in a few months you can be sure he’s going to get tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of dollars in legal donations from Palestine activists. Gaza is suffering and yet you think giving money to a guy who will clearly be found guilty and spend the rest of his life in prison is a better use of your funds?

Celebrities and influencers should not be propped up on a pedestal at all.

Y-I-K-E-S

>>2820149
>When Elias Rodriguez goes to trial in a few months you can be sure he’s going to get tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of dollars in legal donations from Palestine activists. Gaza is suffering and yet you think giving money to a guy who will clearly be found guilty and spend the rest of his life in prison is a better use of your funds?


>The US government is seeking the death penalty for the suspect charged with killing two Israeli embassy staff members in Washington DC last year.

>US Attorney for the District of Columbia Jeanine Pirro on Friday filed a notice of intent to seek capital punishment for three out of 13 total charges against 31-year-old Elias Rodriguez.

>Prosecutors allege Rodriguez opened fire on the couple - Yaron Lischinsky, 30, and Sarah Lynn Milgrim, 26 - outside the Capital Jewish Museum before shouting "Free Palestine" during his arrest in May 2025.

>President Donald Trump has embraced the federal death penalty after his predecessor Joe Biden limited its use. Rodriguez has pleaded not guilty.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cgep2273d5go

Elias = martyr

>>2820149
>>2820181
Elias is a perfect example of a complete and utter moron.

>>2820659
The goal of the anti-apartheid movement was entirely different than the goal of the modern Palestine movement.

>>2818307
What's with you shitlibs immediately sperging out about firebombing a Walmart

>>2820677
>entirely different
<apartheid state
<native minorities oppressed by European colonialists
<resistance is branded terrorism
<supported by Israel
Obviously there are major differences, but there are similarities too.

>>2819365
Zionists have been posting islamophobic and anti swana racist content here on my threads and jannies do mothing

Leftypol is a zionist infested board not even his on 4chan is that bad