/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

Communism is capitalism plus centralization plus the Oriental mode of production, so you aren’t wrong

It's social democracy but without democracy.

Dengism is (state) capitalism, but the question remains open as to whether it is a form of socialist construction in the vein of the NEP. That can really only be answered when the CPC either gives up on communism openly or returns to a planned economy.

Dengism is the bordigism of the bourgeois, the intellectual expression of exploitation, whereas Xiism is the attempt at retaining the principles of the bourgeois class party in conservation in bourgeois parallel to proletarian dogmatism. Proletarian class party spoke - that state instrument, bourgeois class party said - capital is instrumental. NaNoSpAsM nAnOsPaSM Social-Democratic expression of reformist struggle and market struggle of commodity production, to the polar end of revolutionary struggle and the struggle of planned production of use values. Desiring production, production, producc pro duction for the real movement of a single eye, Illuminati confirmed. Neo-China comes from the future. Neo means future, I am very smart.
-Nick Land

>>2823695
Verily, I say unto you:

Marx was more Dengist than Deng:

>I have, which will surprise you not a little, been speculating—partly in American funds, but more especially in English stocks, which are springing up like mushrooms this year (in furtherance of every imaginable and unimaginable joint stock enterprise), are forced up to a quite unreasonable level and then, for the most part, collapse. In this way, I have made over £400 and, now that the complexity of the political situation affords greater scope, I shall begin all over again. It's a type of operation that makes small demands on one's time, and it's worth while running some risk in order to relieve the enemy of his money.

• Karl Marx, Letter to Lion Philips. 25 June 1864, preserved in Marx-Engels Collected Works, Vol. 41
  
  

Deng was more Marxist than Marx:

>I am convinced that more and more people will come to believe in Marxism, because it is a science. Using historical materialism, it has uncovered the laws governing the development of human society. Feudal society replaced slave society, capitalism supplanted feudalism, and, after a long time, socialism will necessarily supersede capitalism. This is an irreversible general trend of historical development, but the road has many twists and turns. Over the several centuries that it took for capitalism to replace feudalism, how many times were monarchies restored! So, in a sense, temporary restorations are usual and can hardly be avoided. Some countries have suffered major setbacks, and socialism appears to have been weakened. But the people have been tempered by the setbacks and have drawn lessons from them, and that will make socialism develop in a healthier direction. So don't panic, don't think that Marxism has disappeared, that it's not useful any more and that it has been defeated. Nothing of the sort!

• Deng Xiaoping, Excerpts From Talks Given In Wuchang, Shenzhen, Zhuhai And Shanghai, 1992
  
  

Consider Lenin:

>We made the mistake of deciding to go over directly to communist production and distribution. We thought that under the surplus-food appropriation system the peasants would provide us with the required quantity of grain, which we could distribute among the factories and thus achieve communist production and distribution […] brief experience convinced us that that line was wrong, that it ran counter to what we had previously written about the transition from capitalism to socialism, namely, that it would be impossible to bypass the period of socialist accounting and control in approaching even the lower stage of communism […] our theoretical literature has been definitely stressing the necessity for a prolonged, complex transition through socialist accounting and control from capitalist society (and the less developed it is the longer the transition will take) to even one of the approaches to communist society. […] Get down to business, all of you! You will have capitalists beside you, including foreign capitalists, concessionaires and leaseholders. They will squeeze profits out of you amounting to hundreds per cent; they will enrich themselves, operating alongside of you. Let them. Meanwhile you will learn from them the business of running the economy, and only when you do that will you be able to build up a communist republic. Since we must necessarily learn quickly, any slackness in this respect is a serious crime. And we must undergo this training, this severe, stern and sometimes even cruel training, because we have no other way out.

• Lenin, The New Economic Policy, 1921
  
  

>To make things even clearer, let us first of all take the most concrete example of state capitalism. Everybody knows what this example is. It is Germany. Here we have “the last word” in modern large-scale capitalist engineering and planned organization, subordinated to Junker-bourgeois imperialism. Cross out the words in italics, and in place of the militarist, Junker, bourgeois, imperialist state put also a state, but of a different social type, of a different class content; a Soviet state, that is, a proletarian state, and you will have the sum total of the conditions necessary for socialism. Socialism is inconceivable without large-scale capitalist engineering based on the latest discoveries of modern science. It is inconceivable without planned state organization, which keeps tens of millions of people to the strictest observance of a unified standard in production and distribution. We Marxists have always spoken of this, and it is not worth while wasting two seconds talking to people who do not understand even this (anarchists and a good half of the Left Socialist-Revolutionaries). At the same time socialism is inconceivable unless the proletariat is the ruler of the state. This also is ABC. And history (which nobody, except Menshevik blockheads of the first order, ever expected to bring about “complete” socialism smoothly, gently, easily and simply) has taken such a peculiar course that it has given birth in 1918 to two unconnected halves of socialism existing side by side like two future chickens in the single shell of international imperialism.

• Lenin, “Left-Wing” Childishness, 1918
  
  

>For socialism is merely the next step forward from state-capitalist monopoly. Or, in other words, socialism is merely state-capitalist monopoly which is made to serve the interests of the whole people and has to that extent ceased to be capitalist monopoly.

• Lenin, The Impending Catastrophe and How to Combat It, Section Titled: Can We Go Forward If We Fear To Advance Towards Socialism?, 1917
  
  
  

BUT BUT BUT I hear you say:

<The NEP was a highly restricted temporary measure to get the Soviet Union from emerging capitalism to higher-stage capitalism, so that they could then step in and move to socialism.

it's easy to declare that the NEP ended in 1928 after Stalin rose to power, but in practice the USSR continued accepting foreign capital investment all through the 1930s. The USSR was doing "Dengism" the whole time. Consider:

<"The modern factories that defeated the Germans in World War II had their origin in the many technical agreements signed with foreign firms […] By March 1930 the [USSR] had signed 104 contracts. Of the 104, 81 were with American or German companies […] Over 400 American engineers made the architectural drawings for the Magnitogorosk plant, the largest project in the First Five-Year Plan. […] In May 1930, McKee waws hired to supervise the construction as well. By 1931, 250 American engineers were working on the project […] McKee brought in engineers from General Electric to work on the huge electrical installation. New open-hearth furnaces were designed by the Freyn Company […] the American Morgan Engineering Company […] and the German Demag A-G.”

• Walter Dunn Jr., The Soviet Economy and the Red Army 1930-1945, 1995
  

<Certain comrades affirm that the Party acted wrongly in preserving commodity production after it had assumed power and nationalized the means of production in our country. They consider that the Party should have banished commodity production there and then. In this connection they cite Engels, who says: "With the seizing of the means of production by society, production of commodities is done away with, and, simultaneously, the mastery of the product over the producer". These comrades are profoundly mistaken. Let us examine Engels' formula. Engels' formula cannot be considered fully clear and precise, because it does not indicate whether it is referring to the seizure by society of all or only part of the means of production, that is, whether all or only part of the means of production are converted into public property. Hence, this formula of Engels' may be understood either way. Elsewhere in Anti-Duhring Engels speaks of mastering "all the means of production," of taking possession of "all means of production." Hence, in this formula Engels has in mind the nationalization not of part, but of all the means of production, that is, the conversion into public property of the means of production not only of industry, but also of agriculture. It follows from this that Engels has in mind countries where capitalism and the concentration of production have advanced far enough both in industry and in agriculture to permit the expropriation of all the means of production in the country and their conversion into public property. Engels, consequently, considers that in such countries, parallel with the socialization of all the means of production, commodity production should be put an end to. And that, of course, is correct. There was only one such country at the close of the last century, when Anti-Duhring was published - Britain. There the development of capitalism and the concentration of production both in industry and in agriculture had reached such a point that it would have been possible, in the event of the assumption of power by the proletariat, to convert all the country's means of production into public property and to put an end to commodity production.

• Stalin, Economic Problems of the USSR, 1951
  
  

In short, Dengism is inescapable until you have a global revolution that puts an AES state in a hegemonic position where the US used to be… Just like worker-owned cooperatives get criticized for existing in a national capitalist economy, AES states get criticized for existing in a global capitalist economy. Just accept the context and try to fight to get us out of that context.

>but better functioning due to being clean of the toxic cultural baggage all Western capitalisms have
China also fetishises democracy and has a cult of self-made man lmao.

You can throw a billion academic quotes, that won't change that China is a small capitalist paradise.

>>2823776
In short, Dengism is inescapable until you have a global revolution that puts an AES state in a hegemonic position where the US used to be… Just like worker-owned cooperatives get criticized for existing in a national capitalist economy, AES states get criticized for existing in a global capitalist economy. Just accept the context and try to fight to get us out of that context.

It's class collaborationist capitalism in a culturally and mostly ethnically homogeneous country with an average autism score of 105.

>>2823785
All "AES" countries are capitalist countries. They would join NATO in crushing any ACTUAL communist revolution anywhere.

>>2823811
>in a culturally and mostly ethnically homogeneous country
Bruh

>>2823695
It's really socialism with Chinese characteristics :)

>western
No such thing

>>2823818
Hmmmmmmm…….. fascinating. and what are you goin to do about that?

>>2823768
>Marx supported wage work because he worked a job
>He also supported the state since he paid taxes

Denglibs actually believe this

>>2823835
not what the quotes you didn't read suggest, but nice one sentence response with emoji spam png

>>2823838
How does Marx personal letter which includes his speculation habits justify the existence of stock markets which are a character of capitalist economies?

Your intelligence is lower than that of a baby chimp. Your death genuinely advances world revolution forward.

>>2823823
Nobody cares that Chinese ethnicity #453 has 2% slightly rounder eyes than Chinese ethnicity #204. You clearly know what I'm talking about. There's no black-white or Arab-Jew dialectic in China. Tibet or Xinjiang is the closest and those ethnicities are dealt with appropriately, unlike in Western countries where minorities are appeased at the expense of the greater national project.

You are utterly ignorant or straight up lying if you don't think white nationalists don't just want China but with white people. All glowie infiltration of wignatism is precisely for the purpose of making sure white nationalism is led by retards crying about Jews or video games or trans, instead of actual nationalists with a coherent nationbuilding project.

>>2823848
>Nobody cares that Chinese ethnicity #453 has 2% slightly rounder eyes than Chinese ethnicity #204.
Come on man, it's not like you need to actually be substantially different from another ethnicity in order to oppress, hate, fear, and want to kill them. Look at Yugoslavia, where Croats, Bosnians, and Serbs are all pretty much identical and even speak the same language. That didn't stop them from slaughtering each other. More to the point though, China very much does care about these ethnic differences which is why they created the special autonomous regions in the first place.
>unlike in Western countries where minorities are appeased at the expense of the greater national project
China actually does a lot of things to "appease" these minorities, such as excluding them from the One Child Policy, providing education in local languages, affirmitive action, specialized development initiatives, etc. The idea that China is some kind of ethnostate is Western propaganda. It's actually extremely "woke" on that issue.
>You are utterly ignorant or straight up lying if you don't think white nationalists don't just want China but with white people.
Some do, but only because they don't actually understand what China is or how it works. What they actually want is something more like Israel for white non-Jews.

>Is Dengism just capitalism, but better functioning
Yes, another word for this is socialism

>>2823753
So its national socialism?

>>2823872
Nazis cut welfare programs and social spending and threw their entire budget into military spending and privatized their economy so no. The closest analogue to Nazi Germany today is America. The same retarded drive to attack every country they want, the same retarded dog eat dog capitalism, the same paradise for the rich and hell for the poor.

>>2823695
Yes, anon. Ergo, modern China is capitalist. No amount of cope by the ACP goons will change that

>>2823890
So they did what China would do and is already doing in the case of imperialist war

>>2823872
Tiresome. Nazi Germany invaded Eastern and Western Europe, committed genocide of slavs, roma, jews, while also targeting communists, social democrats, liberals, anarchists. They helped zionism by deporting petty bourgeois Jews to Israel several times between 1933 and 1945, even continuing after 1938. They literally used slave labor in their death camps to prop up their "economic miracle…." They were inspired by Manifest Destiny and American Racial Laws… But sure. Let's compare China to them. China hasn't invaded anyone in 50 years. America invades countless people. China doesn't have more than a handful of off shore military bases. America has 800, including several like Guantanamo Bay that are just considered occupational by the people forced to host them. America has endless torture dungeons. China does not. America has a slave labor system in its prisons. China does not. America will deport you to CECOT. China will not. America will coup you with its CIA if you try to do even basic socdem reforms. China will not.

That's what's tiresome about the false equivalence between China and the USA, or even the fucking nazis like you're doing right now. you can accuse them of being capitalist, opportunist, revisionist… but fucking nazi? the same as america and israel? get a god damn grip on reality man.

>>2823904
>Nazi Germany invaded
We don't believe in bourgeois sovereignty
>committed genocide
In the service of capital
>used slave labor
All labor under capitalism is slave labor. Some get compensated for their slavery more than others. The local and third world labor exploited by Chinese capitalists is slave labor.
>supported Zionism
So did other succdems in the USSR and Jewish community. China supports Israel directly 1000 times more than Nazis ever did.
>China hasn't invaded anyone in 50 years
Lenin remarks in caricature of imperialism that military intervention is the last solution when economic imperialism fails. China doesn't need to invade anyone since the US in the current attack dog of this world system and it is opening all markets and integrating them into the global economy. Notwithstanding Xi ran on the promise of using military intervention in Taiwan if necessary.
>US is a police state with prisons
So is China. In fact China invokes war on terror propaganda and uses blackwater mercenaries all the time. It is learning from the best granted.

>>2823928
you think purely in terms of abstractions, which is metaphysical idealism. we see marx and engels could recognize even in their own time that some bourgeois nations were more useful than others for driving history forward, hence letter the 1st international sent to abraham lincoln. the leftychud.larp "leftcom" meme interpretation of history is "everything is capitalism, therefore nazi germany and the PRC are equal," but the actual method of Marxism stresses a constant context sensitivity and keeping of score. To keep in mind that all entities are social constructs, but not necessarily reducible to the same phenomenology merely because they co exist under a mode of production. That is a reductive vulgarization of Marxism. I urge you to abandon it if you aren't merely using it to troll and get a rise out of people.

>>2823833
>Hmmmmmmm…….. fascinating. and what are you goin to do about that?
they will do nothing but toothless witticism of all that exists

>>2823896
>ACP
>American Chauvinist Party
>chud larpers
>hate women
>hate LGBT
>petty bourgeois membership
>"MAGA" communist grifters
>"patriotic" socialism in the imperial core
but your problem with them is… they're too nice to china? if anything their solidarity with the world outside the USA is the one thing they do right.

>>2823943
>if anything their solidarity with the world outside the USA is the one thing they do right
This. It's probably the only think keeping me from writing them off as hopeless.

Dengism is perestroika but correct.

>>2823935
>metaphysical idealism
As opposed to the physical kind

Nice word salad

I never denied that the US and China are the most progressive countries in the world today since they represent big monopoly capital that is driving back the petty bourgeoisie while proletariaizing the world population and intensifying material contradictions. However both are reactionaries compared to the proletariat. They're handing us the rope we will hang them with.

>>2823943
>international solidarity is when you celebrate brown cops shooting brown workers stealing rice sacks
lol
lmao

>>2823962
Marx and Engels supported shooting looters. You are revisionist.

>>2823848
You are a retard crying though.

There's way too many open Nazis on this website, we're long overdue for a purge.

>>2823977
This, death to class collaboration.

>>2823872

Yes

>>2823844
Ever heard of the Marxist-Lenninist stock exchage?

China delivers first 15,000 tons of rice aid to Cuba, as President Diaz-Canel hails close bonds of friendship and cooperation at crucial moments

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202605/1361861.shtml

>>2824011
>Ever heard of the Marxist-Lenninist stock exchage?
Yes.

>>2823962
remind me what kermit roosevelt did in 1953 to stage his CIA coup against mossadegh in iran? oh, that's right, he paid people to riot and loot

>>2824104
Nah he employed Islamists just like in 1979 :^)

>>2823960
>repeating his tired thesis that the US and China are the same
ok kid

call me when 90% of people in the US own a home China doubters

>>2824148

The relations of production are part of the very definition of the mode of production (along with the means of production).

In fact, one could define capitalism entirely by its relations of production (because those logically imply certain kinds of means of production must exist).

dengism is the final stage of neo liberalism. thats not even really a joke.

>>2824179
>and this is why we need more video essays about the hidden marxism of shrek 4 :)
this is such a fucking mongoloid cope holy fucking shit

>>2824179
>communism is when you make the middle classes larger (literally what marx predicted capitalism was gonna do 2 centuries ago anyway)
cool

>>2824291
>dengism is the final stage of neo liberalism
this is an incomplete narrative and a strategic miscalculation for multiple reasons.

"Dengism" slowly turned American manufacturing capacity over to China, while neoliberalism de-industrialized America. The alternative was America would CIA coup China and bring it to heel the same way, but without the CPC retaining control of China. This was the USSR's fate, in a way, though it was self-imposed. So China not only bought itself good will with its biggest threat, but it slowly strangled away all the non-nuclear advantage that threat had over it, and increased the dependence of that threat upon itself. This is good strategy. Meanwhile, the CPC maintained the general approval of all classes in Chinese society, including the proletariat, by raising the standard of living and pulling the rural people out of poverty, and building several new cities. When was the last time America built so many new cities? The 1800s?

You will say they exploited their own proletariat for a nationalist advantage. This is true. But when Socialism is not yet a global mode of production, but has merely taken root in a small number of countries, such compromises are necessary. Their proletariat would have been much more exploited by foreign markets if the CPC lost control, the way the CPSU lost control of the USSR. At the end of the day, superior productive forces to your enemy is more important than ideological purity, because superior productive forces have been one of the major deciding factors in most wars throughout human history.

Let me put it another way: China took seized means of production from America without a fight, and you complain that this this was not done in a more suicidal and reckless yet ideologically pure fashion.

>>2824317
Ultimately the critique of how any AES country operates within the capitalist global economy is the same as the critique of the worker co-op in a regional or national capitalist context, namely that it operates in said context (as if it has any other choice)

>>2824291
Complete nonsense statement.

>>2824318
>Ultimately the critique of how any AES country operates within the capitalist global economy is the same as the critique of the worker co-op in a regional or national capitalist context
Yes exactly, that is also my position.

>>2823695
It is capitalism. It is a capitalism in its D phase, as described by Engels in his supplementary writing to his "Anti-Duhring".

>>2824291
T. Has no actual clue wtf neo-liberalism is even supposed to be like
There are in fact very few neo liberal countries, especially since the whole point of benefitting from le free market isn't possible unless you have a weak currency that is still relevant internationally