Anyone who claims to be a Marxist but cares about "police violence" in modern America is a tard. The police don't break strikes anymore, it isn't 1925. They are not being used against the interests of the proletariat, they are used against the lumpenproletariat, and frankly I could not care less if every drug dealing lumpen thug got mag dumped. The lumpenproletariat are not a revolutionary class. Yes, the police are the armed wing of the bourgeois state, this is of course true-but that is only relevant in it's relation to the proletarian movement. The post office is also technically an arm of the bourgeois state but nobody gaf because mail delivery does not have a significant impact on the interests of the proletariat. If New Leftist retards who claim to be Marxists were consistent with their claim that they oppose the police because police historically broke strikes, they would logically put the effort they put into "ACAB" retardation into Union organizing and combating corporate anti union policy which is essentially the modern replacement of armed strikebreaking. They don't do this because they are not really Marxists and their movement is one of idpol.
>If New Leftist retards who claim to be Marxists were consistent with their claim that they oppose the police because police historically broke strikes, they would logically put the effort they put into "ACAB" retardation into Union organizing and combating corporate anti union policy w
They do. All the commie or commie adjascent people I lnow who have any interaction with unions push back against corporate policy and economism.
>Anyone who claims to be a Marxist but cares about "police violence" in modern America is a tard.
Why is it not a strategically useful position?
>>2825165>They are not being used against the interests of the proletariat, they are used against the lumpenproletariatEventually you'll get pulled over by the cops in some small town or suburb where their main job is write people up for small infractions as a way to raise revenue by nickel-and-diming the poor.
Like the few people I've known who actually liked the police eventually tried to be friends with the police and learned it was a big mistake. Lol I had this idiot neighbor who delivered donuts to them down the street where they set up to pull people over, they thought he was drunk and were like GET ON THE GROUND NOW and searched him and everything. He was so humiliated. Don't talk to the police.
>>2825177>They do. All the commie or commie adjascent people I lnow who have any interaction with unions push back against corporate policy and economism.Let me guess a larp "union" like the modern IWW?
>Why is it not a strategically useful position?I'm not sure how you could ever think it was? The average working class American is significantly more pro police than the average PMC New Leftist.
>>2825176most homeless are lumpen therefore I don't really care, also
>everyone is LE HITLER guys heckin treatlerino Hitler particlesis peak retardation. grow up.
>>2825181>police actively involved in suppressing a revolutionary movement is the exact same thing as police shooting Daquan the fent dealer in ClevelandIf you're going to try and make this argument why don't you at least provide some evidence? Explain to me how you believe the police in modern American society are as relevant to maintaining the current bourgeois system as they were to maintaining the provisional government? When in recent US history have we had an action like the July Days for example? Inb4 you try and cite the BLM riots as an equivalent kek
>>2825194ironically for you Horowitz was a New Leftist and idpol supporter himself so not sure what you're trying to say here
>>2825196based off of your posts your an idpol new leftist whose been brainbroken by culture wars whats not to see lmao
>>2825198true. However, my post refers explicitly to the United States. Where are police are almost never used for such actions anymore, but where the "left" is simultaneously dominated by New Left tards who make "ACAB" a prime point of their organizing.
>Chaos Erupts as NYPD Breaks Picket Line of Striking Amazon Workers, Detain Driver: ‘Cops Work for Jeff Bezos, Not You’https://www.ibtimes.com/chaos-erupts-nypd-breaks-picket-line-striking-amazon-workers-detain-driver-cops-work-jeff-3756266This was in 2024.
>Police arrest at least 16 from 'hostile' picket line during ongoing Sysco strikehttps://www.wcvb.com/article/large-police-presence-seen-at-ongoing-sysco-strike/41639857This was in 2022.
>Chicago police arrest Starbucks workers at sit-in during shareholder meetinghttps://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2025/03/18/unbj-m18.htmlAlso in 2025. Part of the Starbucks workers strike.
>>2825202>>2825203>>2825204>>2825205>>2825206ok, I concede on this. I stand corrected. However it does not change the fact that most of the anti police policies pushed by New Leftists only serve lumpen interests and do nothing to combat this. Let's take something like, I don't know, them pushing policies that call for releasing repeat criminals(lumpen) earlier. How does that stop police strikebreaking? All does it does is force the same workers who are striking to also have to worry about getting mugged by Jamal on the train ride home.
(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) stop using belarusian flag. you are not in belarus or belarusian and you are a liar
>>2825231uygha I used it once because I thought you had to pick a flag and it looked cool chill out
OP you are 100% right. Leftism in the West was infiltrated by glowies in the 1960s via academia and has been turned into absolute shit for the past 60 years.
Can you imagine someone like Marx or Engels or Lenin saying "le violent thugs are le misunderstood we must coddle them"
Anti-social behavior happened before capitalism, likely even before class society ever existed. It's abolishment through strict social regulation is beneficial for the working class. It's an issue thats ORTHOGONAL to the communist movement. This is a concept that's incredibly hard for the Leftist Philistine to understand, since the Leftist Philistine must make everything on earth adhere to his dichotomous worldview, because he views communism as an ideal rather than a Real Movement.
No, putting Tyrone or Ahmed in prison for life because they raped or murdered does not hurt the communist movement at all, nor does it give an advantage to the bourgeoisie. In fact, the strict policing of crime is a disadvantage to the bourgeois regime, since it makes it harder to scapegoat criminals as the source of one's problems when crime is low.(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
>Actually the armed agents of the bourgeois state are good because of my retarded moralistic stance against le lumpen who are morally bad because of liberal presuppositions on le lumpens.
Kill yourself.
>>2825165cops are organized lumpen. basically the legal version of a street gang.
Oh wow another retard on leftypol, how exciting
>>2825219Lmao, are you older then 65?
>>2825237The police are only meaningfully a threat because the proletariat is so weak. Once the communist movement becomes strong enough, its the military and bourgeois-aligned militias that will be the real threat. Cops are a joke as far as revolution is concerned.
That being said, its actually New Leftists who are being moralists and saying the lumpen shouldnt be removed from society. Anti-lumpen like me are talking out of pure self-interest. I dont want these animals to be coddled and let go or repeatedly released after only short periods of arrest. I want them gone from society so my daughter doesnt have to fear walking out at night.
Having the organization that is the frontline of working-class suppression be the exact same organization that is given sole authority to protect the oppressed class from anti-social criminals is a deliberate choice to make the workers dependent on their oppressors. Making the oppressed dependent on their oppressors is how class society has always been organized since the beginning of civilization.
You can organize the workers to fight the police during strikes, while simultaneously calling for greater policing of lumpen. There is no contradiction here. Make the police actually do their job and suppress them when they go against the interests of the working class.
>>2825261See
>>2825259
>You can organize the workers to fight the police during strikes, while simultaneously calling for greater policing of lumpen >>2825277>NYT opinion columnTiresome. Crime rate dropped because of COVID. Also social "science" papers are absolute garbage. Youre doing the liberal thing of soyfacing over "democracy index" maps, except over bourgeois sociology papers.
>>2825259>You can organize the workers to fight the police during strikes, while simultaneously calling for greater policing of lumpen.Oh I see. You're a fascist class collaborationist. That's the only framework where that would remotely make sense.
>>2825165>another "converted" reactionary trying to launder all his old shitty viewpoints through totally legit Marxism™You are still the same person you were 10 years ago. Just because you claim to have changed some flags around doesn't mean anything. You haven't done any real introspection. You are still clinging to rightoid bullshit like a safety blanket because you're afraid that if you REALLY dug deep and changed your ways you'd achieve ego death and become a completely different person. Which is true, you would be a better person. A much better one. What you are right now is shit.
>>2825219>the foundation of my argument is bullshit but I'm not going to actually change my beliefs>lumpen lumpen lumpen I'm a real Marxist and you're not!!!Let go.
That there haven’t been any strike break up as of late has less to do with the police being communist than it has to do with how weak unionisation is in modern America as well as because the average union leadership are whores of the elite who are more interested in keeping workers under the union as if they’re cult leaders. Case in point: A large portion of opposition to universal healthcare in America comes from union leaders who don’t want their petty unions to bleed dry since free healthcare would make the standard American union membership perk of having paid insurance tied to membership null, meaning less workers would be willing to join their useless unions.
I should also mention that, as communists seek to abolish private property, therefore it’s counterproductive to support the capitalist establishment’s police forces since they’re the ones that enforce private property law in the first place. Without them, property rights would be voided by anyone other than the state or some megacorp with powerful lobbies in the three houses.
>>2825297OPs use of the name "Jamal" indicates he's likely just using the word lumpen as a substitute for the n word since it gets wordfiltered here.
The fact that moderation allows this type of shit is intentional.
While there is a lower class, I am in it, while there is a criminal element, I am of it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free.
Eugene V. Debs
You should hang yourself with a rope on your doorknob OP.
>>2825417Youd have to be a really short man to be able to hang yourself with a doorknob
>>2825418you just have to sit down and lean into the rope until you pass out
>>2825201If you think radlibs getting their shit kicked in is a bad thing then you’re objectively not a communist
>>2825425By the lumpen government appointed gang? Nah
>>2825427“ACAB” is infantile bullshit that ignores the reasons WHY your police are shit in favor of attacking the very concept of an orderly law abiding society. For fuck’s sake your black block anti-police faggots literally borrow tactics from the fascist rioters in Hong Kong and praised the neo-nazi coup in Kiev
>>2825444>>2825425>If you don't cheer on police violence you're objectively not a communist>Fascist rioters (rowdy libs) in Hong Kong>Uhm sweetie it's Kiev not Kyiv okay?Glad to know this place is still filled with freaks lel
>>2825484The Pshek pedophile calling anyone else a freak lol
>>2825498why not go to a russian nationalist forum to suck off the police and cucktin? or better yet, the acp just opened up a forum for freaks like you, do us a service and go be a retard over there
btw polegods own you, marx called your nation a bunch of primitive despotic mongols, hue and cry
>The reason is that the people of Berlin had not only made a revolution, they had proclaimed the restoration of Poland, and the Poles in Prussia, deceived by the popular enthusiasm, were in the process of setting up military camps in Posen. Hence the amiability of the Tsar. Once again it was Poland, the immortal knight of Europe, who kept the Mongol in awe! It was only after the betrayal of the Poles by the Germans, particularly by the German National Assembly in Frankfort, that Russia recovered its force and became strong enough to stab the Revolution of 1848 and its last refuge, Hungary. And even there, the last man to lead a campaign against Russia was a Pole, General Bem.>There is but one alternative for Europe. Either Asiatic barbarism, under Muscovite direction, will burst around its head like an avalanche, or else it must re-establish Poland, thus putting twenty million heroes between itself and Asia and gaining a breathing spell for the accomplishment of its social regeneration.https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867/01/22a.htm >The police don't break strikes anymore, it isn't 1925.
LOL. The fresh radical /pol/ convert strikes again, that's for sure.
Now tell this to unionized oil workers who were threatened with years of prison time and huge fines when they menaced to go on a sustained strike for basic economic reforms regarding wages and retirement. It happened in several countries as disparate as France and Iran during the last 10 years, chuddieposter.
>inb4 b-but they would bring the capitalist economy to a standstill if they did so, m-muh supply chains…!!!
Yes, and…?
>>2825484BREAKING NEWSThe Sex Tourist of Ternopil thinks communists are freaks.
>>2825283>the police are not lumpen, they actually stop crimeimagine believing this
>>2825517Critical support for Israeli cops in their noble defense of law and order against Palestinian turmoil and chaos.
>>2825444> attacking the very concept of >an orderly law abiding societyroman empire banged on about "law and order" while using its legions to rape, loot, and crucify everyone who resisted "law" and "order." "law and order" just means a monopoly on force by the ruling class. right now the ruling class is the bourgeoisie, not the proletariat.
chuds are obsessed with crime statistics because they can't imagine crime as a social construct. the bourgeoisie literally get away with murder, both "social murder" and literal murder, every single day. they rape kids on their private islands and chop working class women to pieces and bury them under their mansions on a regular basis after taking turns raping them… they commit genocide too! None of it contributes to MUH KKKRIME STATISTIKKKS because MUH KKKRIME STATISTIKKKS only count convictions. guess who almost never gets convicted? that's right. the bourgeoisie! and when they are, they are treated differently. jail for rich people is part country club part daycare.
cops? prison guards? their job is to commit crimes which are called "legal".
Slavery was once "legal?"
Spousal rape is still "legal" in many states in the USA.
Your obsession with legality is reactionary mental illness.
>>2825444The reason American police are shit is because they’re the organizational descendants of slave catchers
>>2825526fuck cops but this is like a completely ahistorical thing. english colonies in the USA date to 1607, and slavery in the english colonies started in 1619. the colonial english ruling class needed mechanisms to discipline their rabble before bringing slaves over. in every society, police and military exist as a way for the ruling class to maintain its monopoly on violence, whether or not there is slavery. the english colonies were no exception. obviously there were slave catching patrols, but the idea that police and slave patrols started off as the same job is just a bit of easily debunked rhetoric that gets repeated a lot. i would rather my side not repeat easily debunked lies.
>>2825531I tend to agree, but it's better for people to have this perception than the 'Peel's Principles of Policing muh policing my content!!' like we do here in the UK, despite it functionally meaning nothing. At least the slave-catcher things has less idealistic fog blinding people to the realities of policing and violence.
>>2825531whats sad about this site and the internet in general is having to preface it with fuck cops otherwise you'll get some tertard saying but you support cops !
>>2825535>whats sad about this site and the internet in general is having to preface it with fuck cops otherwise you'll get some tertard saying but you support cops !yeah… people are obsessed with loyalty tests and always looking for an excuse to not finish reading what you are saying
>>2825498My boyfriend is older than me lmao
>>2825623borderline unreadable even at max zoom
>>2825623Holy (in the memetic sense, not the spooked sense) T R V K E
>>2825165What's more infuriating to me is the fact that this ACAB movement is a sort of claudication the new left has made on trying to propagate ideology into the state security/armed forces population. Complete and total renunciation. Granted, military is not the same as it was in the beginning of the 20th century. But eventually the movement must take control of the military and the police force, and I know that there must be a great initial purge, but I cant see a revolution happening without at least counting on a significant minority of, at least, the army, if not the police force also
>>2825535>>2825537Is that the sad thing, or is the actual sad thing that communists constantly get infiltrated by glowies trying to disrupt them and opportunists trying to hijack them?
I will loyalty test the fuck out of anyone and everyone, because I, in the same position, would pass every single one. Stop fucking crying. And report everyone using the term "lumpen" to mean anything other than organized crime.
>>2825535leave the site. it's not for you.
>The police don't break strikes anymore
Under existing labour law in most US jurisdictions, workers can only go on strike if certain very specific conditions are met. Typically something along the lines of having an expired collective agreement, and only after exhausting all "reasonable" efforts to reach a settlement through "good faith" negotiations (these criteria are vague on purpose). If they go on strike without meeting these criteria, the strike is illegal. Who do you think will enforce this law and break the illegal strike?
poop
Can anyone tell me how the fuck can a revolution happen without a sector of the army and the police force? Can anyone tell me how the fuck are we supposed to incorporate army and police elements into the movement with this bullshit ACAB rethoric?
>>2825688>Can anyone tell me how the fuck can a revolution happen without a sector of the army and the police force?Army yes, police no. Police are equipped to deal with small scale crime or at most a riot. They generally lack the manpower and equipment to put down a full scale insurrection. This is why even a large riot often leads to the national guard being called out, and that typically happens even after police have been bolstered by officers from other jurisdictions.
>>2825691Would you say that conscription is a progressive policy because it makes it easier to propagate the movement into the military?
>>2825666Ok? Weird hostility. Loyalty testing in an imageboard is retarded because people lie all the time. Any chud can come here and say all the right things and push all the right buttons to make you happy, and an actual communist can come here and word something imperfectly, or fail to preface a post like
>>2825531 with "fuck cops" and get completely misinterpreted. I've seen it happen.
>>2825696Idk if I would call it "progressive", but I would certainly think would make things easier for us. In addition it would disseminate basic military skills throughout the working class, and I think would also undermine modern capitalism's tendency towards atomization. It would also likely bolster opposition to imperialism since ordinary workers and their children would be far more likely to by personally endangered by imperial wars. This is precisely why the US stopped drafting people after Vietnam.
>>2825713Well, now that the "left" rebranded as peace antimilitary it's going to be hard to implement it without backlash
>>2825716The backlash against being conscripted is the fuel for the movement though
>>2825688Brother we're not liberals we're fucking materialists.
ACAB "rethoric" isn't bullshit it's just acknowledging the reality that a few bad apples spoil the bunch. The police are an organized gang backed by the rule of law, they look out for each other. "Good cops" protect bad cops. That's what ACAB means. Any "good cop" would stop being a cop.
>>2825716>>2825732The value of conscription is essentially accelerationist in nature. It would help us in a number of ways, but it's not the sort of thing we could openly advocate for or make part of a program.
>>2825667>i want as many people on reddit as possiblefound the agent
see how these loyalty tests work in practice, anyone can just take anything you say and twist it Unique IPs: 37