/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

what's the nietzschean-marxist take on teleology?

>>2826664
Read on contradiction. Even in Communism there will remain non antagonistic contradictions that are generative and creation.

All reality is composed of contradiction, between the positive and the negative, the working class and the bourgeoisie, the state and the demos. Some of these are antagonistic, which requires the destruction of the historically regressive form, others are nonantagonistic, which can produce novel and creative forms without requiring the destruction of one or the other.

The Sinomarxists were actually Nietzscheans at the outset, consider Lu Xun's influence on Mao. We are simply rebranding a system that has considerably solved the problems of synthesis into something more acceptable and tolerable in the West.

The issue with Maoism as a concept is that for the average Westerner, it just means Protracted People's War, whereas true MZT is the philosophy of a revolutionary party that successfully defeated the main imperialist power three times and built the current global crypto-hegemon.

We should learn from the Communist Party of China, even if we have to do so through Nietzschean garb.

The masses are the heroes of history!

Kys ai slop

>>2826648
the works of dr. caleb maupin and his theory on phallic civilizations.

>Nietzschean Marxism
let's discuss Hitlerian and Randian Marxism next

>>2826682
Daily reminder that true Marxism means jerking off to loli porn and getting oppressed by porky without hope or praxis.

>>2826711
Nietzschean Marxism is an oxymoron because Nietzsche regarded the vast majority of people as brainless sheeple who deserved to be ruled over by their betters and were incapable of any kind of self actualization or will to power. If you believe that ordinary people are capable of this then you cease to be a Nietzschean.

>>2826734
The entire point is that it's Nietzschean Marxism, not Marxist Nietzscheanism.

Of course we decry the herd, but the herd is the product of feudal and bourgeois society.

In an authentic socialist or communist society, we do not have a herd, but the heroic masses who create new forms, new values, and transvaluate away old, bourgeois morality which simply seeks to self perpetuate by shackling humans into the Last Man.

>>2826745
If you really want to adopt these kinds of philosophical elements into Marxism you'd be a lot better off with Stirner and Egoism. He essentially came up with the same philosophy as Nietzsche but without the contempt for the vast majority of humanity. In fact he argued that the proletariat was the most likely source of such a transformation precisely because of its alienation from bourgeois society.

>>2826754
As a Communist, you automatically have contempt (but also love) for the vast majority of humanity. The majority of the population are workers trapped in an exploitative system that takes their labor and gives them false consciousness. The majority of the remainder are porkies hoarding Rhinegold and awaiting the burning of Valhalla.

There are very few actual liberated territories where an authentic Mass exists, striving and struggling to build the future, and there are fewer yet Marxists who have absolute conviction in the inevitable victory of the proletariat.

Haven't read Nietzcsh and won't ever since he's pro-aristocratic, but I don't disagree with that image tbh apart from the "overman" kind of thing. Unless it just means people who have gained power for themselves (the people standing up). Fuck nature and fuck the gods, death to nature and praise life.

>>2826754
Also, what we're doing is appropriating Nietzsche. Going to Stirner is bad because Stirner is Nietzsche with acne, just as Nietzsche is Zhuangzi with acne. But Nietzsche is intelligible to the average Westerner, whereas Zhuangzi is quietist most of the time and Stirner is a mild meme.

The will of the masses will not be denied.

>>2826745
There is no herd really. That is a dehumanizing way to talk about the masses that won't get you anywhere. The people are everything.

>>2826769
The Vanguard cadre is necessarily aristocratic in that they've transported themselves long away from the bourgeois norm, and have elected themselves to serve as the leading wing of the Proletariat. At the same time, they are anti-aristocratic in that they acknowledge that they are merely a representative of the working class, and true power and actual truth lies with the Masses.

>>2826777
The herd is a bunch of treatlerites. Admit that the proletariat are the true heroes of history, but that false consciousness keeps them as a herd. Our goal is to awaken them to the revolutionary struggle and revolutionary future and convert them into the authentic Mass.

>>2826779
"The Communists must be like fish in the ocean of the masses"

If you try and separate yourself from normal people, you will find it impossible to lead them. There is a lot you can learn from any random person. That's not to say the vanguard is not the vanguard, but it must be the whole of the revolutionary classes who are elavated through throwing off their chains, not just an "aristocracy" (the idea of attaching such a repulsive feudal concept to Marxism fills me with disgust.)

>>2826782
I disagree with treatlerite theory. I don't think it's Marxist or Maoist. Mao didn't go around saying such things, he just organised all the exploited classes.

I genuinely don't understand why so many Communists today (including many communists I deeply admire and respect) are so pro-nature. They believe in just evil things like being against immortality. The cult of nature is a form of religious thinking that has overtaken people, they think there is no way to go beyond the technology there is now. Also thid arch-idealist standpoint will lead to billions of people dying since they reject geo-engineering which is the most effective way of preventing climate change from killing lots of people in the third world.

>>2826787
You MUST separate yourself from the working people to some degree, because if you didn't you'd be a capitalist or a proletarian in false consciousness.

This is what Mao called tailism, to solely rely upon the ideas presented by the masses of people, who have not yet fully woken up. Marxism is in itself a supreme act of will because it aims to make its own prediction of future reality true.

The base determines the superstructure, and the superstructure in turn influences the base.

If you deny that the superstructure has any effect, and Maoism was highly voluntarist, you are a vulgar Marxist who is coincidentally praxis free because Communism will arise out of its own accord.

If you deny that the base is the determining factor, you are just an idealist.

>>2826796
Yes I understand but also if the working class thinks you are some alien group they won't follow you. I think the average person is a lot more creative and intelligent than what the media and intellectuals want you to think.

>>2826800
Basically, Nietzschean Marxism is a project of mass empowerment to produce a revolutionary kernel that will eventually grow to overthrow the established order.

But for mass empowerment to be possible, it has to acknowledge that the herd is both delusional and weak, otherwise there could be no empowerment.

Essentially, we have identified the contradiction in the people, between the leading elements who are sincerely capable, creative, and revolutionary, and the herd, which simply wants more welfare and never a true revolution.

>>2826803
>wants
Spooky

>>2826816
You know this applies to any non castrated Marxist on this board, right? The entire mission of Marxism is to realize Communism over the decaying dead hand of capitalism.

Yes, we are being trained to conquer galaxies. Otherwise, no revolution would be possible.

>>2826734
this is just the theory of the revolutionary aristocracy i.e. Proudhonist thought from the Paris Commune.

The best of Nietzsche is in Stirner, but he did some great and innovative stuff with not just the Genealogy of Morals, but Zarathustra, bringing it back to the foundations. Also, he thought of you guys as the hell-hounds lol.

>>2826734
Marxism is not being sad that poor people are poor, and
Exploited workers are exploited,

It is the real movement that abolishes the present state of things.

If all you do is wallow in the sorrows of the underclasses you never have the strenght or the power to actually improve their fucking lives.

Like yeah, obviously giving up on your fellow man axiomatically is a bad call praxis-wise,
but also relying on the consent and commitment and consensus of everyone around you is equally insane.
You have to look at things on a case-by-case basis and have a clear understanding of what you need from people and what they can expect from you in that political context, and that means compromising on not being a perfect "leader" nor "caretaker" nor "example revolutionary", like some people are not gonna get you, some people are not gonna like you, and some (good) people might genuinely get hurt by the work you do, but that's the price you gotta pay for being a subject rather than the object of history.

>philosophy
Ick

>>2826779
Masturbatory
>>2826796
>Woken up
From what? The fact we're exploited? Preacher vibes btw