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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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So recently seen the birthrate statistics and notice that it is crashing HARD and faster than any predictors can make. Even the whole theory that poverty = more kids is getting disprovened fast as all countries are seeing their birthrate crash down. The prediction in the US that the Hispanic birthrate will save it has gotten disproven as their birthrate has CRASHED to the point that White birthrates are slightly higher and that isn't even getting into what happened to the Black birthrate. Mexico itself is below replacement level and South Africa is already getting closer to below replacement level. Africa itself has seen birthrates crash so bad the UN is changing its predictions on future demographics due to it. Morocco and Tunisia are below replacement level.
I guess what I am asking: Did global capitalism officially killed the birthrate or something more?

>>2830744
>Did global capitalism officially killed the birthrate or something more?
Nope. The emancipation of women aswell as the internet did

If you’re at the stage of capitalism where child labor isn’t a major factor a child is a financial albatross for any proletarian. The only reason to have them is for care for when you are elderly but if you fuck up that relationship and they don’t want or can’t take care of you it’s a complete waste.

The inertia from Africa and the Subcontinent will still be massive but yeah most population growth projection were idiotic to begin with.
But even european white demographics can be very different from one another. Conservative Italians/Hungarians/Polish TFR are low as fuck despite being conservative people while Scandinavians are higher so the chudded=higher tfr thing is bullshit and only vaguely apply in the USA.
>Did global capitalism officially killed the birthrate or something more?
Womens education killed it. I have seen both progressives and reactionaries debate this endlessly among themselves cooking increasingly weird and counter intuitive theories to justify why, but it's just womens education uygha.

Also forgot South Korean in the Chudded Yet Unfertile category.

Even Algeria with the above replacement TFR could be described as much less chudded than it's two above replacement neighbor pictured here. They are a socdem laic police state junta with women in the military and stuff while Morrocco is a conservative monarchy and Tunisia seemed to have become a chud occupied government.

>>2830746
There is literally no reason to have kids under capitalism since people are no longer tied to their lands and lord and having children doesn't guarantee social welfare for the community/tribe or free labour as it does for the petty bourgeois, having children under capitalism is akin to having a very expensive pet. The only way I see people having children is if you pay them equivalent to a full time job on top of any job they are currently working

Be honest: would you rather have kids than success in some other area? Are kids more important to you than being added to the revolutionary pantheon alongside Marx, finishing your novel or webcomic, finishing your steam backlog, or just enjoying a half hour's peace and quiet?

The opportunity cost of having children has grown massive. Not just the financial cost: if the state would meet that cost 100% but you still had to put in the hours, would you really? I wouldn't, and not because I'm a misanthrope who hates children. I just like my hobbies more.

>>2830745
>>2830747
>Womens education killed it
But then it doesn't explain why countries like DPRK and the USSR had a higher birth rate despite being in the front of women's education

I just want to make kids. I don't want to take care of them.

>>2830755
Idk, I think it would be more fulfilling putting your effort into another human being, unless you're on the cusp of a mayor breakthrough in the arts or sciences or have a passion that you live and breathe.

>>2830755
You're going to need someone to look after you when you age, anon.

>>2830756
>DPRK and the USSR had a higher birth rate despite being in the front of women's education
Banned abortion and ussr taxed childless people and north koreas birthrate has collapsed now anyways.
There no universal answer as to why one country has a higher birthrate than others its typically a combination of many factors economic and cultural and now how digitalized a country is

>>2830756
Inertia. They were still going down fast just slightly less so than the west.
>>2830760
Suicide is more dignified and less of burden than making your kids wipe your ass when you're 95.

>>2830752
You still need them for elderly care but even that’s a shaky argument

>>2830762
>Suicide is more dignified and less of burden than making your kids wipe your ass when you're 95.
I feel sorry for your parents.

>>2830766
It would've been better for everybody if they hadn't had kids. At least I think so.

Creating life just to get a free servant for when youre old is comically evil. Its baffling that such a line of thought is normalized.

>>2830762
This just feels like steps towards encouraging Senicide

>>2830766
They think the same as me. If you reach old age to the point where you cant perform basic functions anymore like hygiene or feeding yourself. Better end it now.

>>2830774
Euthanasia will be the next big political issue in our lifetime, trust.

>>2830779
It is already here with MAID and the increasing genpol resentment towards boomers

>>2830771
Nature in general is evil by that definition

>>2830747
>Scandinavians are higher
Higher than Ukraine, Poland and Spain for sure, but even then it’s the median as far as the European continent goes. If anything, the cases of Israel and France are more interesting given their higher TFRs compared to the median for developed countries (although Israel is such a shithole the only permanent immigrant residents are Arab and African Jews and some Slavs lying to be Jewish to get on welfare, and also western Jewish sex offenders escaping to Israel to escape prosecution), and even then you’d have to ask who does the breeding in the first place. In Israel the demographic growth is mainly driven by the Jewish sects that are exempt from service in the IDF and are a drain to Israel, so they’re the low human capital. It’s hard to say for France as the French government refuses to collect ethnic census after such censuses aided the Holocaust in France, but I wouldn’t be surprised if black and Arab peoples were the main reason for France’s fertility growth.

Another interesting tidbit about France is that in the interwar period the government spent a shitton of cash to get the frogs to pump out babies to no avail, but the country saw its highest TFR in contemporary history only in the aftermath of WW2 during the baby boom.

In a sense, the siege mentality from that likely contributed to the rise in TFRs despite needing decades for both Britain and France to return to normalcy as rationing continued way longer after WW2.

>>2830751
Funny you mention Tunisia as here in Italy I hear the Tunisian petit bourgeois at my university bragging about how “European” and progressive their country is after their Arab spring relative to other MENA countries. Quite insufferable on that front.

You may find this interesting though: https://www.thedailystar.net/opinion/editorial/news/rise-fertility-rate-concerning-4037296

Apparently Bangladesh became one of the first global south countries to reverse its declining TFR to above replacement level. How?

Apparently during the covid-19 lockdowns, people in general lacked access to proper healthcare, and that also included pubescent women and their contraceptives. The end result of locking people in their homes has been a rise in teenage pregnancy rates that contributed to a large portion of the TFR increase in the country.

That would confirm my thesis:

  • Access to contraceptive pills is more consequential to birth rates and TFRs than access to abortion

  • The global fertility crash is more related to a general decline in teenage pregnancy rates, late marriages, and increasing access to simpler contraceptives.

In fact, Afghanistan is the only non-African country in the world with Africa-level TFR, and Afghanistan is also a country with perennial civil war, a quasi-feudal system, promotion of early marriages, and lack of contraception for females of breeding age. All perfect conditions for a high TFR.

I’ll end this post by stating that, IMO, the crash itself isn’t really the issue so much as the transition stage as our economies are both intertwined and predicated on a model of infinite growth. A transition to a more localised and less globalised economic system that involves depopulation of the great cities won’t just reduce human capital but also cause great pains. It’ll be a difficult and painful transition phase for sure, and one that will set back human civilization to boot.

After all, human innovation took place in the world’s most urbanised places, which is why the great reversal coincides with the rejuvenation of Europe’s urbanised centres, especially in coastal regions.

>>2830782
Tbh, millennials are the only thing keeping the US from having SK-level TFR. Once millennials die off, all will start to unravel in America.

>>2830766
My mom straight up told me I should kill her if she becomes disabled

>>2830820
Yea, my father has said similar things to me. I still help them all the time though.
Stop being such a misanthrope and look after your parents.

>>2830820
Because of the belief they don't want to be a burden to you and believe they will hold you back

>>2830860
Well, he isn't stuck in bed now isn't he ?
Also assoooooming I don't already do that.
Sounds like you hate people having autonomy if it's about their own life
>>2830866
For what she means by disabled (can't walk and stuck in bed) that's just correct unfortunately.

>>2830870
Do you believe she is a burden to you

>>2830757
alpha as fuck, comrade

>>2830810
>A transition to a more localised and less globalised economic system that involves depopulation of the great cities won’t just reduce human capital but also cause great pains. It’ll be a difficult and painful transition phase for sure, and one that will set back human civilization to boot.
So we are about to see some solarpunk

>>2830879
I noticed I implied she was disabled right now, she isn't, so no, sorry about that.

>>2830744
🇰🇿🇺🇿🇹🇯🇰🇬🇹🇲💪💪

>>2830752
we will keep having kids so that we can leave the shit we create behind for others to inherit and experience. when we stop reproducing, our species ends, which means everything we did was for nothing.

ai will kill human civilization so it's good birthrates are dropping now in fact they should drop quicklier

>>2830771
I remember some documentary about hunter-gatherers and they were asked some libbed up question to some young men like: do you guys feel burned feeding old people who can't hunt? And they said of course not when we were young the older people fed us, we're happy to feed them now, and when we're old the next generation will feed us to.

In other words… you sound like another instance of "collectivists" who turn out to be individualists.

>>2831086
I don't really like other people that much even if they've helped me. I've probably helped many people myself but I just want everybody to go away.
Maybe I should just kill myself some day, to me it seems to be the only way.

>>2831086
another instance of the ideas of the rulers being the dominant ideas

>>2831088
Settler mentality

>>2831099
Explain

Its caused by smartphones, television and video games

they're all TFR nukes

Birthrate plummeting is good, why do you want it otherwise?

>>2831086
Isnt it individualistic to create life for your own personal benefit though

>>2830755
Tbh actually this is part of it as well, previously people could enjoy stuff previously considered childish (I.e computer games) by living vicariously through their children, but everyone these days are infantilised as fuck anyway and it’s not shamed if you’re a grown man who just likes his Pokémon cards or all night Lucky Star marathons.

Like I do admire the openness and freedom in that, but it’s definitely a factor in why people refrain from having children. You’ve got a lot of people these days in their 20s and 30s even saying they don’t feel like they’re grown up enough for kids and, well, no shit.

>>2831142
Although I will say that this isn’t necessarily people’s fault, the ability to consoooom is still promoted as the only reason to work but we’re also at the end of consumer capitalism’s efficacy to that end.

Buying the grown up shit like cars and homes are miserable affairs these days, rather than something exciting and a nice accomplishment, you’re bound to feel ripped off, disappointed and still like you’ve failed because it was way harder than boomers described it. In comparison you’re meagre salary can still buy so many fucking Pokémon cards like goddam you can live the best childhood in adulthood and isn’t that really the dream in childhood?


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