/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

Is anyone else studying Chinese? I've been going to Chinese classes for one year already and I'll start the B1/HSK3 on September

>>2835823
de-desertification is so cool tbh

>>2835823
>The Great Green Wall, officially known as the Three-North Shelter Forest Program (simplified Chinese: 三北防护林; traditional Chinese: 三北防護林; pinyin: Sānběi Fánghùlín), is a series of human-planted windbreaking forest strips (shelterbelts) in China, designed to hold back the expansion of the Gobi Desert[1] and provide timber to the local population.[2] The program started in 1978 and is planned to complete around 2050
Why does every project seem to end around 2050 bros? Could it really be that "moderately prosperous by 2035" and "socialism by 2050" aren't mere slogans? What do the local ultras think?

>>2835853
Agreed, it's amazing.
Communists make the desert bloom but based and real, not fake and gay settler cringe.

>>2835866
To compare, Stalin's great transformation of nature was cancelled, only select shelterbelts were planted in around Kazakhstan, and as a result, today, both south Siberian/Uralic Russia and Kazakhstan and other -stans have dry winds and water shortages

You know who led the red army to victory?

>>2836926
Lenin and Stalin. Trotsky was a saboteur who uttered "neither peace nor war, but the army must be disbanded" nonsense in official talks, giving Germans an excuse (alongside opposition trying to murder a German ambassador) to continue the war.

>>2836926
Lenin.
you know what most of Trotsky's political career on 'Russian' soil was defined by? Being Lenin's opp.

>>2836946
Trotsky as a leader of Russian military was a compromise by Lenin to let opposition have a say while castrating them by Lenin having a direct almost dictatorial power over the military. It was like a more general policy of forming committees of half+1 belonging to Leninist side and the other half to opposition, with chairman being Leninist and "vice-chairman" being of opposition.

Stalin is the biggest traitor of the revolution. He killed all decent bolsheviks and he left out only opportunists.

>>2836967
>half are missing or disappeared or ???
Are you seriously going to claim that Kollontai went missing?

>>2836971
Fucking magnets

China never left the oriental mode of production and that’s a good thing because it’s superior to capitalism, socialism, and feudalism

The Soviet Union under Stalin contributed on the partition of Palestine thus contributing to the rise of the abomination known as Israel. Stalin was a fucking traitor to the working class.

>>2836971
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1927/11/06.htm

Now, after the victory of the dictatorship of the proletariat, when everybody has seen for himself to what Marxism leads and what its victory may signify, Social-Democracy is no longer able to flaunt the banner of Marxism, can no longer coquet with the idea of the dictatorship of the proletariat without creating a certain danger for capitalism. Having long ago broken with the spirit of Marxism, it has found itself compelled to discard also the banner of Marxism; it has openly and unambiguously taken a stand against the offspring of Marxism, against the October Revolution, against the first dictatorship of the proletariat in the world.

Now it has had to dissociate itself from Marxism, and has actually done so; for under present conditions one cannot call oneself a Marxist unless one openly and devotedly supports the first proletarian dictatorship in the world, unless one wages a revolutionary struggle against one's own bourgeoisie, unless one creates the conditions for the victory of the dictatorship of the proletariat in one's own country.

A chasm has opened between Social-Democracy and Marxism. Henceforth, the only bearer and bulwark of Marxism is Leninism, communism.

But matters did not end there. The October Revolution went further than drawing a demarcation line between Social Democracy and Marxism; it relegated Social-Democracy to the camp of the direct defenders of capitalism against the first proletarian dictatorship in the world. When Messieurs the Adlers and Bauers, the Welses and Levis, the Longuets and Blums abuse the "Soviet regime" and extol parliamentary "democracy," these gentlemen mean that they are fighting and will continue to fight for the restoration of the capitalist order in the U.S.S.R., for the preservation of capitalist slavery in the "civilised" states.

Present-day Social-Democratism is an ideological support of capitalism. Lenin was a thousand times right when he said that the present-day Social-Democratic politicians are "real agents of the bourgeoisie in the working-class movement, the labour lieutenants of the capitalist class," that in the "civil war between the proletariat and the bourgeoisie" they would inevitably range themselves "on the side of the 'Versaillese' against the 'Communards.'" 2

It is impossible to put an end to capitalism without putting an end to Social-Democratism in the labour movement. That is why the era of dying capitalism is also the era of dying Social-Democratism in the labour movement.

The great significance of the October Revolution consists, among other things, in the fact that it marks the inevitable victory of Leninism over Social-Democratism in the world labour movement.

The era of the domination of the Second International and of Social-Democratism in the labour movement has ended.

The era of the domination of Leninism and of the Third International has begun.

>>2837595
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1915/dec/x01.htm

This is about modern leftists, who prefer garden over jungle:

>Social-chauvinism is a consummated opportunism. That is beyond doubt. The alliance with the bourgeoisie used to be ideological and secret. It is now public and unseemly. Social-chauvinism draws its strength from nowhere else but this alliance with the bourgeoisie and the General Staffs. It is a falsehood for anybody (including Kautsky) to say that the "masses" of proletarians have turned towards chauvinism; nowhere have the masses been asked (with the exception, perhaps, of Italy, where a discussion went on for nine months prior to the declaration of war, and where the masses also were against the Bissolati party). The masses were dumbfounded, panic-stricken, disunited, and crushed by the state of martial law. The free vote was a privilege of the leaders alone—and they voted for the bourgeoisie and against the proletariat! It is ridiculous and monstrous to consider opportunism an inner-party phenomenon! All Marxists in Germany, France, and other countries have always stated and insisted that opportunism is a manifestation of the bourgeoisie's influence over the proletariat; that it is a bourgeois labour policy, an alliance between an insignificant section of near-proletarian elements and the bourgeoisie. Having for decades to mature in conditions of "peaceful" capitalism, opportunism was so mature by 1914-15 that it proved an open ally of the bourgeoisie. Unity with opportunism means unity between the proletariat and its national bourgeoisie, i.e., submission to the latter, a split in the international revolutionary working class.
<that it is a bourgeois labour policy, an alliance between an insignificant section of near-proletarian elements and the bourgeoisie.
<Having for decades to mature in conditions of "peaceful" capitalism

>In its issue of April 1915, Preussische Jahrbücher, a conservative German journal, published an article by a Social-Democrat, a member of the Social-Democratic Party, who concealed his identity behind the pseudonym of Monitor. This opportunist blurted out the truth regarding the substance of the policy pursued by the entire world bourgeoisie towards the working-class movement of the twentieth century. The latter can neither be brushed aside nor suppressed by brute force, he says. It must be demoralised from within, by buying its top section. It was exactly in this manner that the Anglo-French bourgeoisie has been acting for decades, by buying up the trade-union leaders, the Millerands, the Briands and Co. It is in this manner that the German bourgeoisie is now acting. The Social-Democratic Party's behaviour, Monitor says to (and in essence in the name of) the bourgeoisie, is "irreproachable" in the present war (i.e., it is irreproachably serving the bourgeoisie against the proletariat). The process of the transformation" of the Social-Democratic Party into a national liberal-labour party is proceeding excellently. It would, however, be dangerous to the bourgeoisie, Monitor adds, if the party were to turn to the right; "it must retain the character of a workers' party with socialist ideals. On the day it gives that up, a new party will arise to take up the rejected programme, giving it a still more radical formu lation" (Preussische Jahrbücher, 1915, No. 4, pp. 50-51).
<It would, however, be dangerous to the bourgeoisie, Monitor adds, if the party were to turn to the right; "it must retain the character of a workers' party with socialist ideals. On the day it gives that up, a new party will arise to take up the rejected programme, giving it a still more radical formu lation

https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1924/foundations-leninism/introduction.htm

>It is usual to point to the exceptionally militant and exceptionally revolutionary character of Leninism. This is quite correct. But this specific feature of Leninism is due to two causes: firstly, to the fact that Leninism emerged from the proletarian revolution, the imprint of which it cannot but bear; secondly, to the fact that it grew and became strong in clashes with the opportunism of the Second International, the fight against which was and remains an essential preliminary condition for a successful fight against capitalism. It must not be forgotten that between Marx and Engels, on the one hand, and Lenin, on the other, there lies a whole period of undivided domination of the opportunism of the Second International, and the ruthless struggle against this opportunism could not but constitute one of the most important tasks of Leninism.
<the fact that it grew and became strong in clashes with the opportunism of the Second International, the fight against which was and remains an essential preliminary condition for a successful fight against capitalism

>>2837627
>The first contradiction is the contradiction between labour and capital. Imperialism is the omnipotence of the monopolist trusts and syndicates, of the banks and the financial oligarchy, in the industrial countries. In the fight against this omnipotence, the customary methods of the working class-trade unions and cooperatives, parliamentary parties and the parliamentary struggle-have proved to be totally inadequate. Either place yourself at the mercy of capital, eke out a wretched existence as of old and sink lower and lower, or adopt a new weapon–this is the alternative imperialism puts before the vast masses of the proletariat. Imperialism brings the working class to revolution.
<working class-trade unions and cooperatives, parliamentary parties and the parliamentary struggle-have proved to be totally inadequate

>The third contradiction is the contradiction between the handful of ruling, "civilised" nations and the hundreds of millions of the colonial and dependent peoples of the world. Imperialism is the most barefaced exploitation and the most inhumane oppression of hundreds of millions of people inhabiting vast colonies and dependent countries. The purpose of this exploitation and of this oppression is to squeeze out super-profits. But in exploiting these countries imperialism is compelled to build these railways, factories and mills, industrial and commercial centers. The appearance of a class of proletarians, the emergence of a native intelligentsia, the awakening of national consciousness, the growth of the liberation movement–such are the inevitable results of this "policy." The growth of the revolutionary movement in all colonies and dependent countries without exception clearly testifies to this fact. This circumstance is of importance for the proletariat inasmuch as it saps radically the position of capitalism by converting the colonies and dependent countries from reserves of imperialism into reserves of the proletarian revolution.
<The appearance of a class of proletarians, the emergence of a native intelligentsia, the awakening of national consciousness, the growth of the liberation movement–such are the inevitable results of this "policy." The growth of the revolutionary movement in all colonies and dependent countries without exception clearly testifies to this fact.

So, in short, Stalin was a Third Worldist, like Mao and modern China. Funny that

Check this out. Prices decrease due to an increased competition, this means what? That's right, a bad scary word: involution! As opposed to monopolization of the market in the West, where it's self-evidently a healthy and natural thing, and since this doesn't happen in China, this means China is doing something very, very wrong and unnatural!

https://www.prcleader.org/post/china-s-economic-involution-state-and-business-strategies

>China’s economic involution, characterized by cutthroat, race-to-the-bottom competition, is a symptom rooted in its political and fiscal structure. During the recent economic downturn, the central government, local governments, and businesses entered a self-reinforcing cycle. The central growth targets and debt-reduction pressures pushed local governments to expand investment in state-favored industries, creating low-profit competition and oversupply. The declining revenues further reduced demand, but businesses must expand production to survive. An examination of real estate and electric vehicles suggests that these sectors share similar dynamics: excessive capacity, slow turnover, declining prices, and high financial leverage. But they also differ in terms of dominant players, market expansion success, and the role of local governments. The central government’s recent anti-involution campaign has encountered difficulties because, while it cracks down on over-investment and excessive competition, it simultaneously pursues GDP targets and industrial growth. Instead, the central government should realign its policy goals with local actors.

>>2836967
this is such a lazy pic and leftypol debunked it like in 2016

>>2837968
I wouldn't consider myself an expert on the Chinese economy but isn't oversupply and falling prices in low profit industries a recipe for a crisis unless they press the communism button?

>>2837983
Almost all the old bolsheviks died by 1940

>>2837991
It's crisis only for capitalists. For socialists, it just means everything gets cheaper. That's how you in the West can still afford your daily goods, because if there was no China, modern capitalist crisis would have happened back in 00s, and by 26, you would have been a generation deep in the crisis, with WW3 on the doorsteps

>>2837991
>>2838026
I'm not making sense, sorry.

Okay. Socialists think this way because their mode of production makes it so company earnings are workers' wages. Since production = consumption, it autobalances into low profit margins meaning no decrease to workers' wages, meaning workers just consume more goods with stagnant wages - at worst. At normal or best scenario, wages are actually growing due to increased production and increased sales.

Under capitalism, this doesn't happen. Instead, you have talks about preserving profits by establishing cartels and monopolies and a bewildered gaze at the suggestion that monopolism is bad and counterproductive to increasing country's wealth.

And since capitalism - or, rather, imperialism - is in crisis, there's war on the horizon. if crisis was permanent from 00s without China's socialist production of goods, instead of rapid collapse of today, we would be on the verge of WW3 already as imperialists would be trying to redraw markets and borders. Instead, we only getting to this point because a socialist economy supplying the world with cheap goods is offsetting capitalism's ills

>>2838020
Because they were old
<*badum tss*
No, seriously, half of Stalin's kills died of old age.

Hey so if China is allegedly Actually Existing Socialism why is it doing what it can to keep the global economy afloat and allow America and Israel to wage war on Iran with impunity?

china is a right wing society. ive been all over asia, china and japan are the most petite bourgeoise, and racist (toward black even, and more poor asian countries) societies. ive literally been to every asian nation other than NK and can confirm it. china was like if capitalism was done without the ills of multiculturalism and individualism but its definitely a right wing society and government lmao

>>2838158

Btw these two nations dont even like their own people who get too dark they bleach their skin and see the darkie asians as poor field workers. japan and china are the most petite-bourgeiose asian societies, maybe throw korea in the mix too, but even south korea is less racist and more aware of things going on. I could see south korea uniting under a socialist republic before i could see half of the chinese population suddenly dropping their bourgeiose values. i spent a lot of time in asia my dudes, and chinese people are very very nice and cool but their values and politics are anything but left. south koreans are more pro marxist than chinese, its the 2020s. china is basically just asias new america

>>2838146
Why should China strive towards making anybody's life hell? China's improving quality of life of Chinese citizens, everything else is secondary.

Like, look at world's opinion on USA starting a war in the Middle East, resulting in great troubles for the world economy. It's so bad that people in the West are sympathizing with Iran, even, despite all the propaganda. Why should China take over the mantle of USA in creating troubles for the world, when benefits lie in the exact opposite - in helping everyone?

>>2838189

This.

>>2837968
>Another potentially problematic practice, associated with using low prices to increase sales volume, is to tacitly and systematically turn new cars into zero-mileage second-hand cars (零公里二手车), which has occurred in both domestic and export markets. The practice reduced a company’s existing stock, thereby easing overcapacity pressure, and at the same time artificially increasing sales volume by pricing cars at a used-car level without blatantly violating price regulations. Many car producers used such a strategy to create a false image of a hot-selling product. It also lowered the costs of after-sales service for customers (since used cars do not require such service), and, importantly, utilized state subsidies targeted at second-hand cars. Just as with informal IOU notes, regulators began to curb such practices in late 2025, but whether there will be real changes remains to be seen.[42]

Wow, how horrible, new cars are being priced as used cars.

>However, such strategies have recently incurred increasing costs, showing warning signs. Smaller players may go out of business, especially when governments can no longer bail out firms. Levdeo, an EV company, received a loan of more than 1 billion yuan in 2018 from a local SOE owned by the Changle government in Shandong province to expand its business. But after the central government issued policies against such behavior, the Changle government decided in 2023 to cut off its finances. Levdeo’s owner fought back by exposing Changle’s party secretary, who forced the company to report a fake figure of 7 billion yuan in EV output, rather than the real figure of 2.5 billion yuan, to show an increased political achievement.[44] But Levdeo’s substantial sales decline and financing problems still forced it into bankruptcy. Similar stories occurred with Neta Auto, which adopted a low-price, negative-profit strategy to enter the market but ran out of financing from local government-backed state-investment firms across multiple localities (e.g., Tongxiang, Ningbo, Nanning) and entered into bankruptcy, with 26 billion yuan in debt and large unpaid service obligations to its suppliers.[45] In addition to Neta, Niutron, Weltmeister, HiPhi, Jidu, and Qoros recently went bankrupt as well. Large players like BYD may not face the same challenges, as their sales markets continue to expand domestically and internationally. However, the high-leverage finance model, which relies heavily on IOUs, rests entirely on the assumption that market sales must continuously expand.

Wow, Chinese have a policy of letting private retards to fall? How dare they? Also, notice the implicit bias of "if they report corruption, the truth must be an even more horrible than reported", so that if there was one party official fake reporting it must mean that the real problem is much worse, lol

>Local governments, homeowners, and the majority of surviving businesses all have an interest in avoiding prices from further plunging.[52] That is why local governments have set a floor for pricing through direct supervision to avoid further race-to-the-bottom competition. And whenever price violations occur, local authorities intervene to stop them.[53] The state has also removed purchasing barriers and encouraged house purchasing to stimulate demand. As a consequence of deleveraging, the state is allowing over-leveraged firms to go through bankruptcy and restructuring (such as the recent case of Vanke), while keeping a watchful eye on prices. The fact that SOEs now increasingly dominate the sector also means the state can more easily use them as tools to control prices.

Yeah, dude, it's not because it's SOEs now dominating the real estate that prices were allowed to be free, it's because all the petite bourgeois elements were crying and conspiring! Honestly, it's quite amazing how they manage to read direct quotes of Chinese government and then assume there to be a double meaning somewhere between the lines.

>In June 2025, the State Council issued a rule requiring small and medium enterprises to receive payments on time, directly challenging the widespread practice of IOUs in the EV sector. The auto industry association also issued a regulation in 2023 stating that a firm should not use irregular prices to disrupt fair market competition. But over time, these measures were not taken seriously as competition intensified.[54]

Wow, let's see what will happen in 2027. I'm sure that the state will buckle under the pressure and bail out indebted companies or something, instead of putting in jail all the people violating regulations. Oh, and all of that is definitely to stop deflation and not to stop retards from imploding the market with unsustainable prices ala Tesla, AI companies, or those car ride apps or other attempts at monopolizing the market at low prices and then hiking up prices later when there is no competition anymore. How dare China be proactive in this and sink the wannabe monopolists?! It's involution! It's devaluation! reeee

etc etc and so and so forth *sniff*

Sometimes I want to take the dengpill just to get the copium you guys get

>>2837635
>So, in short, Stalin was a Third Worldist, like Mao and modern China. Funny that
M3W post-dates Stalin and Mao. While all Marxism-Leninism advocates Anti-Imperialism and the struggle of oppressed nations, M3W goes a step further.

See >>>/leftypol/2767836 written by a Haitian comrade, which distinguishes between ML-MZT, MLM, and M3W:

>In the 90s M3W is formed as less of a political force and more of… an art project, in North America. Their activity consists of media engagement, primarily online. Their "theoretical elaboration" (that the proletariat in any imperialist nation is structurally incapable of revolution) deviate from MLM and MZT theory and practice, while retaining the militant verbiage and symbolism. They don't last more than a decade in terms of noticeable output, are still technically existing today as "MIM (Prisons)" which also still just posts stuff online, which can be described as "bizarro US exceptionalism".

China is going to be America, the capitalist state if it isn't already, so don't get your hopes up. China is imperialist after all.

How do Dengists justify China's support for Israel?

>>2838646
>China is going to be America
this is undialectical, unmaterialist, metaphysical, idealist, cyclical pseudhistory. it implies that nothing ever transforms or erodes. Even if China becomes the global capitalist hegemon, it will not govern exactly as the united states did. it will do some things very differently, just like the USA did some things very differently from the British empire. You erase the possibility of gradual transformation. I can understand being cynical and doubting the sincerity of Socialism With Chinese Characteristics, but what I don't understand is pretending that China is simply USA 2 when USA wasn't even British Empire 2.

>>2838666
this shit again…

>>2838666
>China's support for Israel
if you would please consult the graph

>>2838977
>>2838986
China became one of Israel's largest trading partners. Bilateral trade expanded rapidly during the 2000s and 2010s, providing Israeli companies access to the world's second-largest economy and a major export market
https://www.cfr.org/articles/whats-behind-israels-growing-ties-china

Chinese firms invested heavily in Israeli technology, research, venture capital, and start-ups. China's interest was particularly focused on Israel's strengths in cybersecurity, artificial intelligence, semiconductors, agriculture, and medical technology.Chinese state-owned companies participated in major Israeli infrastructure projects, including ports, railways, tunnels, and transportation systems

From the 1980s through the early 2000s, China was a major customer for Israeli military technology. Israel transferred expertise, avionics, electronics, UAV technology, and other defence-related systems to China. Although this primarily benefited China militarily, it also generated substantial revenue for Israel's defence industry.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%E2%80%93Israel_relations

Despite increasingly pro-Palestinian rhetoric from Beijing after the Gaza war began, China has continued trade, investment, and diplomatic relations with Israel rather than imposing sanctions or severing ties
https://kinacentrum.se/en/publications/principles-and-pragmatism-chinas-evolving-approach-to-israel-and-palestine/
https://www.inss.org.il/publication/china-taiwan-israel/

>>2839038
>China became one of Israel's largest trading partners.
Again. Since you didn't read the first time.

>>2839038
holy shit this is crazy. you're right. Death to china! USA must save the world from evil zionist china

>>2838470
That's maotism. Under Maoism, I meant Mao Zedong Thought

>>2839038
Instead of blaming China, you should be pressuring your own government.

>>2838977
China shows no solidarity towards the international working class. Down with chinese capitalism

>>2839409
but that requires effort and risk, i would much rather be mad at who the state department tells me to be mad at, but leftishly

>>2839408
uygha you are fucking illiterate.

has anyone here actually ever been to CHINA?

>>2839553
I already live in America, China’s siamese twin without which neither would exist

>>2839442
I need more images like this

>>2835866
2049 will be the 100th anniversary of the founding of the People's Republic of China. 2050 is just a nice round number.
>>2839553
>has anyone here actually ever been to CHINA?
There used to be a few Chinese anons here but I haven't seen them in well over a year.