/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>2833934
French new left are bourgeois reactionnaries who destroyed de Gaulle in may 68.
May 68 represents the victory of liberalism, both socially and economically, the old left was denounced as being too conservative, and afterwards, sexual, romantic, relations became part of the capitalistic economy, transformed into a market.
it is not shocking in that view that the last remant of laws against sexual relations were attempted to be teared down by the new Left.

>>2833940
>LOL imagine defending a bourgeois reactionary like DeGaulle.
De Gaulle was a left-wing nationalist leader in terms of policy, putting in place large state programs, creating social housing, supported a nationalised economy, and the political indepenance of France. It is a self evident as to why the Americans wanted him out.
The New left in France, to this day, hate the French and French culture, even the French language, whom they decry as sexist, and glorify anglo-saxons culture, portraying them as freer and more equal then French culture.
>While I do agree that the new left made a mistake by allowing sex to be commercialised for a while, I still don't follow your point on sexuality which is akin to that of Ben Shapiro.

My point is that "Jouissez sans entrâve" was a major slogan of the sexuak revolution and may 68. Under that logic there is no reason as to why you shouldn't be able to have sex with a child, hence why the new left tried to abolish age of consent laws. This liberation of sexuality was a mistake, as it allow sexual relations to become a market, as you can see this today, with dating apps and the porn industry. Women's positions haven't improved with the sexual revolution, they've just turned into sexual objets and men into sex freaks.
It's no shock that Daniel Cohn Bendit has become a neoliberal.
>Are you homophobe by any chance?
No, but in any case Homosexuality had already been legalised in France since the French Revolution, apart from Vichy French era, homosexuals weren't persecuted by the state.

>>2833949
GET OUT PEDOPHILE NO ONE WANTS YOU HERE

>>2833958
You keep spamming this website with all your shitty ai generate posts no one gives a shit about, get out.

Most people's genes are ATCG but Fr*nch genes go RAPE

De Gaulle did many many good things domestically as the other anon said but the man became so awful on geopol after WW2 and did completely incoherent self sabotaging things all the time.
>After killing one trillion algerian insurgent we will give them their country back because i don't want them in france anyway but actually lets import a million of them still to do manual labor while our stay-behing gladio is doing brenton tarrant shit in the old colony
I also don't get the point of making yourself a dictator just to cave in and resign like that, real ᴉuᴉlossnW being deposed by the council of fascism for sucking too much moment.

>>2833937
Anti-imperialism and "opressed nations" is new left

>>2833940
Picking some random rightoid and insisting that they're actually a revolutionary hero is practically a leftypol tradition at this point. I'm sure we all remember the Park Chung-Hee schizo.

>>2834025
No it isn't, it comes from Lenin.

>>2834025
oppressed nations is a lenin phrase libtard kys

>>2834026
I'm not calling de Gaulle a hero, but in terms of policy he was to the left of the world created by may 68, ie Neoliberalism.

>>2834025
Marx talked about oppressed nations, he used Poland and Ireland as exemple, wtf are you talking about.

>>2834034
How do you figure that May 68 created neoliberalism?

>>2834038
In France, the link is fairly obvious.
De Gaulle had a dirigiste economic view, believing the economy to be subservient to the state, essentially like China today. May 68 removed de Gaulle, without changing political regime, his sucessors, while claming of him, all had more liberal policies, Macron being the end result of this.

But, I go further then this, and claim that may 68 was liberal in its aims.
Already, the people at the head of it were university students, not workers. Even if some would later join.
And even, the revolts weren't simply against De Gaulle, they were also against the PCF, the communist party, accusing them of being too conservative. They opposed them based on a vague "anti authoritarian" stance, and most of the slogans of may 68 were primarly based on the idea of liberty, especially sexual liberty. This led to the destruction of the more traditional social bonds that capitalism hadn't yet marketed, Familial structures, local communities, etc. In favor of individualism. Liberty was the prime motto of the event, this is something that is taken again by neoliberalism.
May 68 was pro-american, denoucing France as a backward culture instead of the free american culture.An attitude that is still present today in the French Left even if the atlanticism has declined, mostly because of Trump. The French left denounces the French language as sexist for exemple.


I think Michel Clouscard's texts are best read to understand this vision.

>>2834042
Raping children is bad !

>>2834068
Please stop replying to my post, I don't want to talk to you.

Foaucoult raped Algerian children

>>2834073
You mean Morroccan and no he didnt

>>2834078
They're right next to each other he probably raced both.
Are you a zionist?

>>2834082
>Untrue as Michel was never charged with rape (much less with Algerian boys, as
<the boys in question were Tunisian),
>Nevertheless, even the allegations themselves don’t really describe rape as much as
<sex tourism involving paying Arab boys for sex
The fact that you chose to defend him with this is in its own very questionable.

>>2834084
Paying BOYS for "sex" is child rape. This zionist defender of liberal stooges like Foucault. Is letting his zionism show

>>2834082
If anything, a committed socialist would have to agree that prostitution is rape

>>2834082
There is no point saying anything to you because you're a pedophile.

It was a social revolution in france, and french people are gooners

>>2834098
Litterally just making shit up at this point, I've never supported the second french empire.

>>2834088
I don't claim to know much about what Foucault did. Just the fact that you personally think that paying children for sex is somehow in any way defensible is very suspicious.

>>2834117
He's a regular troll, he's been banned so many times yet he keeps coming back.
>>2834124
The second empire died years before de Gaulle was even born. De Gaulle is also the one who ended the colonial empire, you don't know shit about French History.

>>2834098
>There really is no consensus on it, I’m afraid.
It's pretty simple actually. If your body is a commodity, and is being coerced and exploited, it is rape.
You cannot consent to being coerced into sex.

>>2834154
I've engaged many times with your points and all you do is deny everything, there is no point arguing with you. You still can't explain why drunk driving should be banned and child rape (children can't consent) is legal.

You weren't clearly refering to the colonial empire, no one calls it the "second colonial empire" You obviously are a retard who confused de Gaulle and Napoleon III.
He granted gradual independance to african colonies, and granted full independance to Algeria. I'm not arguing he was an anti-colonialist, nor that he was perfect, but he was the most anti-colonial french president, and far more to the left then the people who lead may 68.
Daniel Cohn Bendit is a Macronist, far more right wing then de Gaulle.

>>2833937
Are you the Phrygian Cap anon of the /francopol/ thread? I tend to generally agree with you, but I'm a bit disappointed that you are basically repeating the same talking points as Libération and Alain Finkielfraut when it comes to May 68.

It's impossible to understand May 68 without understanding that:
1) May 68 was absolutely not a singular French phenomenon, but part of the worldwide 1968 protests which happened simultaneously in:

• The US (assassination of MLK, anti-Vietnam movement)
  
• West Germany (shooting of Rudi Dutschke, Adorno dying of an heart attack after looking at boobies)
  
• Czechoslovakia (Prague Spring)
  
• Japan (Zengakuren)
  
• Mexico (Tlatelolco massacre)
  
• Pakistan (resignation of Ayub Khan)
  
• Yugoslavia
  

And last but not least, the operaismo movement of Italy and the subsequent Years of Lead, which lasted more than 10 years. In 1969, the workers of the Fiat factory of Turin organized the biggest strike in Europe within the biggest factory of Europe. By 1980, the Bologna train station was bombed by neo-fascists, killing 85 people in the most left-wing city of Italy.

2) May 68 in France, just like in Italy, started with workers, especially in the automobile industry, going on strike, and then students allied to workers because they had their own grievances, and were generally left-wing, a lot of were inspired by communism, notably Maoism, and Che Guevara died the year before (see the movie La Chinoise by Godard).
You need to understand that once workers and students start an alliance against the state and the bourgeoisie, this is extremely dangerous for the powers that be, because they have both the currently productive workers and the future educated workers against them.
The figure of Cohn-Bendit emerged, but he was seen by many as a "recupération" of the revolt, especially by groups like the Situationiste Internationale, and various Maoist and anarchist groups.
The real thing that killed the revolutionary fervor of May 68 was when the PCF and trade-unions decided to collaborate with the bourgeois government of De Gaulle by signing the Grenelle accords, and told everyone to go back to work. Which in my opinion, shows that conventional communist parties in Europe like the PCF and PCI were class-collaborationists who were much more interested in establishing a bureaucratic managerial state than in a real revolutionary movement in favor of the proletariat.

>>2833944
Regarding De Gaulle, his "socialist policies" were basically dirigisme, or capitalism with direct state intervention in crucial sectors of the economy and some Keynesian policies to favor full employment, while not giving too much power to labour.
It's better than neoliberalism for sure, I wouldn't mind a few Keynesian reforms, but this was basic capitalism in most of Europe before we got infested by the brainworms of Thatcher and Reagan, nothing extraordinary.
Geopolitically, he started a war that lasted for more than a decade in Algeria.
And don't forget his private militia, the SAC, which went rogue under Giscard and killed Robert Boulin when he had dirt on the supremely corrupt Balladur and Chirac.

Read this book, https://www.tempscritiques.net/spip.php?livre16, click on "Sommaire", read a few chapters, and you will see the history of May 68 is much more complex than what the Nouvel Obs says about it every year.
The real problem of May 68 is that, as Bourdieu said, it was a failed revolution, and the bourgeoisie since then made sure it will never happen again. But it was a genuine attempt at a revolution for sure.

>>2834166
It's not my definition, it's the principalled socialist definition.
>Besides, by the same token I could also argue that street-cleaning is commodifying and exploitative of the worker, yet I don’t see leftists being as outraged about it as compared to prostitution.
picrel

>>2834047
Very interesting. Have you ever read picrel? It also makes the connection between the New Left and neoliberalism. It points out that the New Left regarded the fusion of the state and private sector that characterized postwar social democracy as a unified oppressive apparatus, and that the weakening of the state would inevitably lead to the weakening of the whole system. This led to them at times forming alliances with the proto-neoliberal and libertarian movements, albeit with very different ends in mind.

>>2834166
>Plus nowhere in the world is sex by deception legally punishable or deemed as rape despite the fact that deception should in theory undermine said consent.
actually it is, in many places actually, if you're HIV+

>>2834047
>De Gaulle had a dirigiste economic view, believing the economy to be subservient to the state, essentially like China today.
China has a lot of the exact same problems as France nowadays: low wages (that's why Chinese smartphones are so cheap, it's not magic), high real estate prices, a youth unemployment rate of 15%. While /leftypol/ love to simp for China as the savior of the 21th century, most serious economists and Chinese analysts know that there has been an economic downturn there since COVID and they never truly recovered. The young Chinese people and expats I've talked to are both scared of being replaced with AI and the "curse of 35". There is no welfare programs in China like in France btw.
Not saying China is evil, I like China and I respect how the CPC managed to modernize the country so quickly, but it's not even a social democracy economically-speaking.

>>2834177
Let's inverse the thesis: What if liberals co-opted the critiques of the New Left for their own aims? People like Foucault, Bourdieu, Deleuze and Guattari were genuinely in favor of labour struggles and minority rights (ok for Foucault, by the end of his life, he said some unsavory things about neoliberalism and the Ayatollah Khomeini, but otherwise he was left-wing), liberals selectively took the parts that criticized the traditional Marxist movements as they became more and more ineffectual, but didn't engage with the whole of their critiques.
Agamben uses Foucault and Deleuze in his analyses all the time and he is more radical than 99% of this board (even too much I would say).

If liberals didn't use the New Left for their own aims, they would have found something else.
And it's an indictment of the incapacity of the Old Left to renew itself, especially when, like I said earlier, the PCF in May 68 openly collaborated with De Gaulle to shut down the strikes of automobile workers. It's cool to post ironic Stalin and Gonzalo memes, but at end of the day, it's just an edgy obscure subculture just like grindcore or Troma Entertainment horror movies, most workers don't relate to that.

>>2833934
literally who

Pedos

>>2834195
>What if liberals co-opted the critiques of the New Left for their own aims?
That's not a what if, that's literally what happened lol. However I think there was some degree of naivety involved on the New Left. They really had no idea that they were living at the zenith of socialism and worker's power, with the Eastern Bloc at its peak, social democracy and organized labour at its strongest in the West, and national liberation sweeping the third world. They had no idea how good they had it or how bad it could get. This isn't to say that they shouldn't have kept pushing things further, but I think many of them inadvertently ended up arming neoliberalism with some of their critiques as you said. At the time it seemed like the great evil wasn't unrestrained capitalism, but the fusion of capitalism and state bureaucracy, and its not hard to see how an attack on that can be co-opted by libertarians and neoliberals.

France is different they have the first shota president. Also I was jealous of the student Simone de Beauvoir banged when I was a teen.

>>2833934
I am a complete diletant in this topic, but if I had to guess from the vibes of the French intellectuals I skimmed though, then something something "you cannot police the natural part of human expierence, it is just imposible"

I hate how every interesting stuff here gets deleted

>>2834868
>youths enjoy sex regardless of age.
Im sorry but most kids dont lile old French guys in their asshole.

>>2834880
It's just pathetic.

>>2833934
seems like some pedos snuck into the petition but it was just a french style troll. a bunch of high school kids got arrested for rioting and tried as adults so their teachers were like "well if they are legally adults then we should be allowed to fuck them" and used the outrage to get free press.

>>2835001
It was started by a known pedophile (litterally wrote a book called, the under fifteen) called Gabriel Matzneff.

>>2833934
Based and breadpilled petition made by the greatest Frenchmen of all time, all of whom have accomplished more than everyone here on this board.

Sartre and Foucault have overthrown modernism and create a new intellectual tradition out of it. WTF has anyone accomplished here besides bitching over their betters? Grow up.

>>2833973
Tbh mass immigration from Algeria preceded the Algerian war of independence, so de Gaulle was merely continuing his predecessors’ policies tbh. Read: https://archives.history.ac.uk/history-in-focus/Migration/articles/house.html

>>2833961
Which makes Gisele Pelicot’s case weird, since you’d expect the French to side with her husband as opposed to be like Americans in that controversy. Really weird turn of events that one.

>>2834048
Stop spreading disinformation. Foucault never raped anyone, there’s no record of that. Plus all the allegations come from Guy Sorman, whose contradictory claims led him to being questioned: https://www.lexpress.fr/actualite/idees-et-debats/michel-foucault-et-la-pedophilie-enquete-sur-un-emballement-mediatique_2148517.html

So take the claims with a grain of salt. And even the allegations take at face value are themselves are relatively innocuous as they don’t involve gore or torture, just a white dude with BWC paying some Arab moids below the magic age line to do some hanky panky. You’d have to be a homophobe to think this is worst than the Holocaust.

>>2835001
It was more of a broader protest against the AoC for gay sex being higher than the AoC for heterosexual sex, so the complaint went:

>If men can fuck younger women but not young men, we might as well get rid of the magic age line

It was a troll, but with gay liberation in mind, considering how France constrained homosexuals’ freedom of expression with various moralistic statutes.

People forget how France is a very conservative society. Besides Phrygian cap dude’s passionate defense of the second French colonial empire and simping for French fascists, there’s also the fact that France only expanded suffrage to women in 1948, and allowed wives to have bank accounts without their husbands’ permission only in the 1960s. In this sense, 1950s America was more feminist than France at the time LOL

>>2835008
Gabriel Matzneff did nothing wrong, and the cancel culture against him reeks of Americanisms tbh.

Also, it’s weird that you defend French imperialism and neocolonialism with the same vigour as the average RN and Eric Zemmour fanboy only to moralfag over Matzneff, whose only crime is violating some American prudish sexual norm.

Like, you’d have to admit that for all of his faults Gabriel doesn’t deserve the current demonisation by the American press and that he is a lot better than Maurice Papon. Oh wait, nvm you probably love Papon since Papon was a Gaullist and you think the imperialist de Gaulle was a leftist, my bad should’ve known that.

Also, care to explain this?: https://nsuworks.nova.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1135&context=cps_stuetd

>you must answer for bourgeois academics from 50 years ago who you are not associated with because glowiepedia calls them left
stupid thread

>>2835067
>It was a troll, but with gay liberation in mind, considering how France constrained homosexuals’ freedom of expression with various moralistic statutes.
yeah i had no idea. makes sense since they are french i just really wanted to assume they didnt want to actually fuck kids or at the very least that the co-signers didnt find it socially acceptable. euros in general are like that tho
>>2835008
>Gabriel Matzneff.
literally never heard this in all the years of this going around

>>2835080
Only came out he wrote it in 2013