Both were against to differing degrees singular individuals accumulating extreme wealth to oppose everyone. Both wanted high decentralization and sometimes assumes an agrarian material world. Jeffersonian democracy is interesting because it's based on the idea that people can govern themselves without experts leading them, and that liberty is kept alive through local organization autonomy and action.
Jefferson himself however was a slave owner and a rapist and a bad person, but I don't think that invalidates some of his ideas. And he supported private property.
Thoughts?
Jefferson "the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants"
Robespierre: That quote goes hard. Watch this.
Nat Turner: That quote goes hard. Watch this.
Dessalines: That quote goes hard. Watch this.
Marx: That quote goes hard. Watch this.
Lenin: That quote goes hard. Watch this.
USA: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO NOT LIKE THAT
most of the rednecks I've met are the only people that are serious about implementing Jeffersonian Democracy and still are struggling with the same contradiction of wanting this decentralized agrarian society without a strong central government but also building on top of the corpses of whatever segment of the working class is convenient at the time(slaves,natives,immigrants,renters,etc). Now tbf many of these ruralite jeffersonians I've met are fairly principled and extend there vision of liberty to everyone but the racist mfers will always end up selling out all of their anti-government principles since you need a strong state to maintain private property and to keep feeding corpses into the meatgrinder for keeping petty bourgeois from going bankrupt.
>>2838972the USA is an empire built by slaves on an indian burial ground. "jeffersonian democracy" is the democracy of the ancient greeks: the democracy of slave owning pedophiles which explicitly dehumanizes most of the population so that they are not considered part of the "demos"
>>2838987This means that the true heir to Thomas Jefferson was Pol Pot.
>>2838988Athenian democracy embraced the urban
Jeffersonian liberalism can only ever exist in an environment with an expansionist frontier. The utopia of Jefferson is NO TRESPASSING settler shacks dotting all the way towards the horizon. Its an ideology that can only exist under a settler regime that can claim new land that is not formally inhabited by the expanding society. In truth, it is a very general phenomenon of the middle classes wanting to flee in terror against the influence of ever expanding capital. Hippies trying to run into the hills or modern chuds trying to form their Vinlandian vikangz community are in essence the same as the Jeffersonian settlers terrified of central banking and (((the satanic urban life))).
>>2838990An historian of Jefferson in "The Long Affair" apparently once said this: "The twentieth-century statesman whom the Thomas Jefferson of January 1793 would have admired most is Pol Pot".
>>2838988trvthnvke
the West started being ontologically evil and historically regressive starting from the Greeks and escalating with the Romans. Greco-Roman """"culture"""" = pedophilia, imperialism, slavery, worship of wealth/money/status, etc.
>>2838988I would agree and it's quite fitting that the first big liberal revolution would end being the Lenin qoute although I think its interesting how some of the specifics of it were retained in the rural population and it existing as a widespread ideology in the USian countryside is a consideration for organizers.
>>2838995That's like saying Lenin should have pandered to the Russian peasant Orthodox mindset. The reasons a population would follow in revolution are purely pragmatic for them. The goal in such rural communities would be to provide to them what the state is incapable of providing because of its decay. Note that this is exactly the strategy employed to great success by reactionary insurgencies globally and the reason why they are hard to root out.
>>2838996Agreed. Suburbs are the highest stage of Communism and the physical proof of the abolition between town and country. Under communism there will be no towns and no rura areas, just acres upon acres of suburbs for proles.
>>2839000A good proof that communism can't just be materialist in nature but must also offer some path to social and personal enlightenment.
>>2839001Suburbs nourish the soul and if you disagree you are spiritually lumpen.
>>2839001>communism can't just be materialist in nature but must also offer some path to social and personal enlightenment.elaborate on this without just reinventing religion
>>2838999I Never said pander, just keep in mind like how I would assume(you know what they about assuming tho…) the bolsheviks were perfectly aware of influence of Orthodox church and had various plans on how to deal with that.
>>2838954both are idealist. jeffersonian democracy is interesting because it actually makes sense kind of like athenian democracy, just ignore the genocide/slavery. the second problem is that if the land was actually unoccupied there are still natural limits to expansion and you still run into the problem marx identified where competition leads to consolidation and monopoly. like thats what modern libertarians prepper self sufficiency types dont get, outside infrastructure needing to be a group project, most of the good land is already owned
>>2839432tsmt this also reminds me why land reform is kinda necessary for society too since land just progressively gets more and more expensive because of landlords.
The problem with jeffersonian Democracy is that the democracy only exists for the bourgesisie lol
some of the founding fathers were based
>>2839560Paine. That's it.
>>2839439The probably with Jeffersonian democracy is eventually all the yeoman farmers turn into proles.
socialism was just the logical conclusion to liberalism, but liberals stopped being radicals once they became the new elite
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