I am not getting into whether the CMoP (Chinese mode of production) is AES or any kind of state-capitalist combination (the preferred term would be state-socialism, if you are a Leninist/Bukharinist (Lenin's theory of state and imperialism are actually Bukharin's, but I digress). What I am getting into is what the CMoP signifies in world-history.
Some month ago I read Laussen's The Long Transition and, withholding a genuine critique, I realized that revolutions are not singular instances in time, where there's a state before and after, but it usually takes many decades for a revolution - the time it takes for it to ember, kindle, start a prairie fire - and many years after the revolution, the period of proletarian dictatorship and socialist (re)construction.
It also takes time for people's consciousness to change, because they need to adjust to the new mode of production. But I think most communists agree that this part is the most difficult part because it takes time to change petty-bourgeois anti-communist consciousness so deeply rooted almost everywhere.
In this sense, what China signifies is an actual possibility of communism. It matters not that the cat is black or white, as long as there is a negative other that the bourgeois order is forced to defined itself by way of antagonism/contraposition.
As the imperialist order rots further, this anti-communism will become more and more obvious. At the same time, it will also be completely undeniable that the CMoP works while the patriotic anti-communist system doesn't. This would conditionally get people to achieve some form of class consciousness if any kind of communist party is ready to go for ideological mobilization and mass agitation.
The PRC signals communism as actuality. This is the point. Socialism is not a thing of the past, or a utopia. It exists here and now, dirty-semitic and this-worldly, and this too is a step forward.
K
>>2839654China is a dictatorship of the proletariat and its mode of production is a transitionary stage of socialism.
China is imperialist. Down with chinese capitalism?
if you guys would just admit to be socdems no one would have a problem with it
>>2839654it does matter. the biggest thing china is doing is building infrastructure in africa. that means kenya tanzania and congo are going to have industrial factory jobs paying the equal of $20 an hour and a population over a billion.
do you have any idea what kind of pressure that is going to put on service sector wages in the imperial core? its gonna cause a fucking civil war in eu and na. china is playing the long game with excellency
>>2839654And what exactly will induce the CPC to ever willingly move the country into being communist other than "We'll do it eventually trust me bro"?
>socialism doesn't matter
finally an honest MLoid
>>2841321its never been important for a movement to be explicitly communist to get support from communists. as long as it benefits the real movement
>>2841194Except they don't build a full industrial base but rather an extractivist one. Yeah you have many gibs because China understands they need soft power and more consumers buying their treats down the line to keep their export economy afloat but it's dwarfed by economic investments for mining and so on. Unless the african working class wakes up they'll stay on the bad end of the supply chain and forever underdevelopped, China is not budging the status quo here.
>>2841434>Except they don't build a full industrial base but rather an extractivist one. wrong
>>2841423>its never been important for a movement to be explicitly communist to get support from communists.Yeah that's why the 20th century went so well lmao
" To make things even clearer, let us first of all take the most concrete example of state capitalism. Everybody knows what this example is. It is Germany… Cross out the words in italics, and in place of the militarist, Junker, bourgeois, imperialist state put also a state, but of a different social type, of a different class content—a Soviet state, that is, a proletarian state, and you will have the sum total of the conditions necessary for socialism.”
“Centralisation of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.”
“State ownership of the [means of production] is not the solution of the conflict [between the classes] but it contains within itself the formal means, the key to the solution.”
If you think China is not socialist, then you are not marxist or leninist, as you are against Lenin and Marx.
If so, you are either a fed or mentally retarded. Either way, you deserve to be executed as a subhuman and/or as a traitor.
To all 'anti-seeseepee' fed-communoids: You all anti-communists, and only bullets await you at the end.
China is a capitalist state with de facto land-lordism that has simply reproduced capitalist contradictions because IT IS CAPITALIST!!!
Also, how can it force anything when it’s part of the unipolar order?
>>2841784China is not socialist by the simple fact that the workers don't own the means of production and are not directly involved in politics, it's not the workers who run society, it's the CCP. You can come up with your own definition of socialism, but China doesn't fit the marxist definition of socialism. If it's socialist as you say, then why isn't the state withering away? China is also imperialist since it's been investing in Latin America and Africa, in order to exploit workers and extract their wealth. Down with chinese revolution.
>>2841784America has central bank and stakes in intel, it is socialist
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