would /leftypol/ support the republic or the confederacy of independent systems? the republic might be worth supporting for their egalitarian jedi order as well as existing autonomous structures for members of the republic or would the CIS's desires for total separation be more worthy of support ?
>>2842268
>would leftypol support the bourgeois republic or the bourgeois seperatist republicneither, revolutionary defeatism would be encouraged so both droid* and clone armies rise up against their masters
*(i guess you'd install a virus to reprogram them in this case)
Kill every star wars character, put baby yoda on a spit and smoke him with bbq sauce for 4 hours at 225 degrees Fahrenheit over hickory
>>2842283so what you support the mandalorians ?
>>2842284The entire galaxy far far away needs to be destroyed, it has no right to exist
>>2842268>egalitarian jedi orderliterally how? the jedi are a theocratic, aristocratic cult.
The confederacy attempted to overthrow the kingdom of Naboo, and so a war started, with Padmé becoming an influential senator. The senate had a rebel faction which opposed Chancellor Palpatine, but we see the majority powers supported by the Republican loyalists, in transition to empire. Padmé is not an either/or type who sees separatism as the only viable alternative, such as her accusations against Anakin, who had already spoken of his desires for dictatorship. The Jedi themselves appear constitutionally bound to the Senate in their attempted arrest of Palpatine - but was Coriscant really worth the suffering across the galaxy? We see in Tatooine, an active slave market, leading to the eventual death of Shmi Skywalker, a contributor to the downfall of the Republic by Anakin's revolution. The material circumstances then rule that the Republic was decadent, and the Jedi largely complacent (such as freeing Anakin and letting Shmi remain a slave).
Now, the confederacy are an interesting bunch, since they have ambitions to industrialise, as we see on Geonosis, where the techno union is importing droid factories. Dooku is at the head of this shadow group which is also in partnership with Palpatine. We see on Mustafa that the confederacy were betrayed by Palpatine in his coup, and so the Empire has a confederate legacy attached to it. What is interesting is why clone troopers died out and droids were not used - the mass employment of the storm troopers at least allowed poorer planets to have upward mobility, as we see with Luke's friend in A New Hope. So, it seems to me that the Empire was a necessary step in galactic progress, which usurps the developments from the confederacy, but needs the architecture of the Republic. Padmé's rebellion festers into the eco-terrorist group later on, which leads to the New Order years later, so no progress is really made from the true believers in the galactic constitution or Jedi Order. Morally, it is contrarian to side with the Empire, but violence was already present in the system. Perhaps an Empire led by Anakin and Padmé was possible, and I wonder what this would yield?
Anon the entire thing was a psyop so it doesn't matter.
>>2842289There was nothing aristocratic about them. You didn't need any particular class background to join.
>>2842302You need your blood to be special, blue
>>2842292Fuck you, you fake jamaican alien caricature
>>2842302Anakin never would have become a Jedi if one hadn't randomly crashed in his back yard, presumably the only kids that go to the jedi academy are ones whose parents can pay their way, or at least who are privileged enough to know a jedi personally who can detect their midichlorians.
>>2842323Not really, Jedi routinely go hunting the galaxy for little children who have a high midichlorian count, Tatooine was special though because it was an outer rim planet where the Republic's control was pretty thin therefor out of the reach of most Jedi
>>2842325Alright well still that shows being a jedi is at least partly economic. Besides with how few Jedi there are how could they possibly cover a galaxy of hundreds of billions of sentients to check all the kids?
Even if we put that aside, jedi are given special access to and influence over the senate and republican politics just based on their blood and cult membership. They talk a lot of shit about how they're the embodiment of good but they seem to mostly be just government stormtroopers and spooks. It's a highly suspect and sinister organisation. Sure maybe they're not as bad as the sith but that's not exactly hard.
>>2842320those are gungans you fat retard the vong are invaders from another galaxy
>>2842304Force abilities aren't restricted to any class though. Plenty of lower class people are born with them, including Anakin who was a slave.
>>2842393Jedi individual background isn't the point. As an organization they set themselves up to sit on top of the Republic hierarchy. Difference between them and the Sith is the Jedi hide behind a Senate made of oligarchs while Sith just took over directly. Jedi were essentially the Praetorian Guard.
>>2842408In terms of their actual role it was basically a combination of law enforcement and diplomacy, which obviously sucks for a shitty corrupt government like the Republic. My point is just that they weren't aristocratic. I don't think the point you're supposed to take away from the prequels though is that the Jedi and the are awesome. I think Lucas was trying to make a point about their hubris, and how fascism overcomes democracy through the corrupt selfishness of its rulers in a crisis. Something of a left lib take sure, but people love to make him out to be Robert Heinlein or something. Remember that the OT was an allegory for the Vietnam War with the Empire as the US.
long live the butcher Palpatine!
>>2842408the jedi order were like if the IRGC and Clerics were in the same org
>>2842430>combination of law enforcement and diplomacyThis combination means picking and choosing what laws to enforce making them political actors not just street cops. They proved this when they just took over the Republic's military as soon as they felt like it.
>My point is just that they weren't aristocratic. Is there a word for mutant psychics being a ruling class? They are still not egalitarian no matter what you call it.
>people love to make him out to be Robert Heinlein or something.How so? Never heard this comparison.
>>2842268Whichever one kills the most Americans apparently.
But in all seriousness, I’d say the CIS would be more preferred due to them actually offering something new to the table.
>>2842660star wars is real proletarian media made by the only woke american boomer to have ever lived
The CIS is litteraly a golem fabricated by Palpatine
>>2842495>Is there a word for mutant psychics being a ruling class?They aren't the ruling class. The senate ran the Republic and individual planets all had their own governments of various types. They had some influence but not any de jure power.
>They are still not egalitarian no matter what you call it. They are in the sense that there are no requirements of birth or class to join, and force sensitivity appears to be spread at random across the galaxy's population.
>How so? Never heard this comparison.People love to argue that George Lucas is some turbo reactionary for some reason, and that the whole series is meant to justify and glorify aristocracy, privilege, elitism, etc. I've heard people argue that the Rebel Alliance was an allegory for the White Army, but he himself said they were the NLF. His leftward leanings are pretty obvious, especially in the OT.
>>2842660I like how it’s selfie obsession, implying there’s a correct, proletarian amount of selfies to take
>>2842660>sci-fi is generally fascistOkay but what about Star Trek, TNG and DS9 seem pretty leftist and progressive coded, especially for their time
>>2842817The Klingon are a stand in for the Soviet Union and the Borg for China with the federation as EU/NATO
>>2842819That may have been the intent of the show's creators, but consider this:
The Federation is classless, post-scarcity, and almost moneyless. (Money is useless within the Federation, and only exists to deal effectively with other civilisations.) - Seems commie-pilled to me.
The Klingons and USSR were both atheists (Klingons literally killed their Gods). Klingons had a form of barbaric feudalism ruled by a warrior class, not like the State Capitalism of the USSR.
The Borg are well, the Borg. A hive mind with no real culture or economics. It represents the ultimate extreme of collectivism. That makes it a piss poor representation of China under either Mao or Deng.
On another note:
The Bajorans and Cardassians are stand ins for Palestinians and Israelis respectively.
TNG had an episode about trans issues back in 1992.
The Ferengi are… well, best not to go there…
>>2842835But the federation are western and therefore nazi germany
>>2842268Star wars is a bourgeois dystopia. Both sides are bourgeois.
>egalitarian jedi orderLap dogs of the bourgeois Republic. Their idealogy is to create social peace, and denying a dialectical worldview. Thus, they are the enemy of the proletariat.
>confederacy of independent systems? A bunch of capitalist overlords.
Though, logically, their level of automation, with regards to droid technology, probably means they are closer to socialism. Though the likelihood is, that droids are somehow used for hyper exploitation of the workers.
>>2842835If you watched any star trek and thought 'hmmm this is communist' you might actually just be retarded fam.
Go away.
>>2842850That’s right, no communist would ever waste resources on space travel, that’s Khruschevite revisionism
>>2842819In the original series the Klingons were the USSR and the Romulans were China. By the time you get to TNG though Roddenberry felt that the cultural atmosphere and changed and he could rework the whole setting. The Federation is a higher stage socialist society without money or class distinctions.
>>2842850They had a whole episode where they thawed out a cryogenically frozen porky from the 20th century and explained to him that capitalism was obsolete, and had been replaced by a post-scarcity society in which money didn't exist and human worth was measured by their self-improvement and social contributions rather than wealth. Star Trek TNG is by far one of the most pro-socialist things to ever come out of the Western cultural mainstream.
>>2842860How many times have we had this conversation on this site, anon?
Every Star Trek episode is about going to someone else's planet and interfering. It's literally American world police nonsense. There is nothing liberatory here. Stop trying to look for diamonds in shit, it's extremely silly.
>>2842850You clearly never watched Trek, or the core messages of the show went over your head.
No, Trek isn't explicitly communist or Marxist, and if you read my post you'd see I explicitly stated that wasn't the creators intentions.
But the messaging is repeatedly and explicitly very progressive, socialist and anti-capitalist.
As
>>2842860 points out they literally have an episode in TNG (The Neutral Zone, S1 E26) where they take someone from the 20th century and explained to him how capitalism, class, and money are bad and should be abolished.
Picard literally gets tortured by grey-skinned, lizard like, space Israelis who decide you're guilty before the trial.
And has multiple key characters who are part of the space Palestinians fighting for liberation.
>>2842874You can’t be progressive without being explicitly marxist and communist and my tendency specifically, I am very very smart
>>2842874Also the whole Prime Directive thing really just seems more like a plot device to explore the moral dilemmas of intervention in other societies. I think the whole point of those episodes is to leave those questions open to the audience.
Still haven’t watched the third one but James Cameron’s Avatar is more communist and more anti imperialist than any Star Wars or Star Trek. It’s not primitivist because the technology the blue people have from Ehwah already has them in communism.
>>2842877That was also a good one in that it also explored the complexities involved in seemingly repressive, militaristic, autocratic governments. The Cardassians are of course an analog to Israel in relation to the Bajorans, but that episode had nothing to do with Bajor. In it though they explored the ethics of autocratic states which may rule their citizens with an iron fist, but create the necessary stability and prosperity for them to be able to live normal lives. If you remember, the interrogator talks about Cardassia before the military took power, how it was a total mess, people were starving in the streets, slaughtering each other for basic necessities, how he grew up homeless, etc. Then how all that changed when the military junta took power, and that although Cardassians may not enjoy the same freedoms as people in the Federation at the very least they have their basic needs met, how his children don't have to suffer the way he did, and this is why he supports that government. If anything it serves to subvert the standard Western narrative about "authoritarian" governments they dislike, and how they often build real legitimacy by actually providing things for their citizens that Westerners take for granted, and that previous governments could not. It almost echoed Parenti's statement that the revolution that feeds the children gets his support.
>would /leftypol/ support the republic or the confederacy of independent systems? the republic might be worth supporting for their egalitarian jedi order as well as existing autonomous structures for members of the republic or would the CIS's desires for total separation be more worthy of support ?
THIS UYGHA STILL HASN'T WATCHED ANDOR LMAO
>>2842879Prime directive is just a cheap writing trick to explain why they don't just use their overwhelming technology/firepower to solve every problem. It creates tension and rules for the writers to follow.
>>2842874>You clearly never watched TrekThis nonsense was syndicated on everyones TV's around the world anon. I assure you everyones seen it.
>>2842905Uncontacted tribes are somewhat left alone for ethical reasons in real life even though they are manpower sitting on real estate in an imperialist world so it's not completely unrealistic
>>2842917I mean the part that's unrealistic is that they break it constantly, if it was actually this important rule then Kirk would get arrested or at least least stripped of command
>>2842850>If you watched any star trek and thought 'hmmm this is communist' you might actually just be retarded fam.It's fully-automated luxury gay space communism which is what Americans want or what Roddenberry was projecting into the future from his own standpoint in the 1960s.
>>2842860>They had a whole episode where they thawed out a cryogenically frozen porky from the 20th century and explained to him that capitalism was obsolete, and had been replaced by a post-scarcity society in which money didn't existThat's basically Edward Bellamy, the American utopian socialist writer. He wrote a novel about a guy who falls asleep in the 1880s and wakes up in a 21st-century planned economy. The novel was a popular enough critique of the industrial capitalism of the day that it sparked a short-lived movement in the United States that aimed to popularize his ideas. It'd be like if the DSA were a bunch of Trekkies inspired by a work of fiction rather than being inspired by Bernie (of course he sells fiction too am I rite lololol)
>>2842973Some communist btw! Literally second or third thing i learn from the little fucker is he was in the LAPAD and wrote cop-propaganda.
You people. Pure jokes.
>>2842268idk, weren't the Sith allied with CIS? The Sith seems like the antisocial psychology of capitalism incarnate
>>2843115The Sith aren't inherently evil, they just think that passion is compatible with the force, while the Jedi deny all passions.
>>2843119>The Sith aren't inherently evilI dunno about that one dawg
>>2843115Well yes the Sith were pulling the strings of the Confederacy in secret, but the thing is to most of the galaxy the Jedi as is are some weird group of aloof monks that they hardly ever see, to say nothing of the Sith who are officially extinct for over a thousand years and barely anybody outside the Jedi order has even heard of them. Some of the CIS higher ups were aware of Palpatine's manipulations but they all thought they'd get their slice of the pie once the Clone Wars was over, only to get shafted. In fact there's plenty of instances of Confederacy aligned forces attacking Dark Side users, Maul's ordeal and the genocide of the Nightsisters by Grievous being just two examples. Ventress was officially just an assassin who happened to be skilled in Dark Side stuff, and Palpatine ordered Dooku to purge her shortly before ordering the aformentioned genocide of her people.
I suppose it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things because the Confederacy was never supposed to really be a coherent system of governance with genuine separatists and sympathizers having to share the stage with megacorps and aggressive xenos that hated the Republic because they outlawed slavery. It was never meant to last.
>>2843119I mean maybe not inherently, but if you read into Sith philosophy from both Canon and Legends it's pretty much boils down to "fuck you, got mine" in mystical terms. The Sith of old were constantly stabbing each other in the back partially for power plays and partially just because the Sith are basically the Order of Nine Angles in that they think deliberately counterintuitive villainy somehow strengthens them. And when some of the Sith ended up putting aside their differences long enough to collaborate, Darth Bane decided that was very unpoggers of them and killed them all before instilling the Rule of Two. To quote the man himself, "the Force is not fire, it is venom". Spread out among others it becomes diluted, but concentrated into one person it's at it's most powerful. There's also other Sith writings where they bemoan the fact that the Jedi wouldn't let them enslave "inferior" creatures.
>>2843130The Dark Side is not forbidden from the force itself, so it clearly helps in balancing things. This is why many see Anakin as the chosen one.
>>2843153Yeah everyone saw that.
>I'm not a snob but Star Wars fans are funny because they take the setting more seriously than George Lucas ever did, because Lucas really wanted to make a movie for 12-year-olds with simple moral lessons. I don't think that's true, I think it's more that the constraints of when he made the originals probably made him simplify it more. It's interesting, in his novelization of the film he actually gets into some of the political stuff about the collapse of the Republic and how democracy died and all that which he used in the prequels. I think the problem with the prequels is he had free reign to try to make this epic political-espionage-thriller he wanted to make, but it ends up squandering the vibe of cool space adventure style focusing on people standing around talking about politics in some room.
>>2843119As a Sith Lord Übermensch with the birthright to rule over everything in the universe, I can confirm: The Sith are not inherently evil, nor are they right-wing; rather, we are moderate centrists. However, we do hate leftists and enjoy making others suffer—for that is our passion.
>>2843177he's got my vote
is the fel empire anti-imperialist ?
>>2843168>>2843203There was also some stuff in the prequels that was just straight up incoherent. Like how Padmé is vocally against the creation of an army for the Republic, but for some reason she suspects Count Dooku of trying to kill her even though he's the Separatist leader and would benefit from the Republic not having an army. I think Goeorge just tried to cram too much into the prequels.
>>2843217the prequels should've been a 9 hour long mini series or something
>>2843219Probably why the Clone Wars show was so much better.
>>2842922
>uses chinese flag for the faction basing its rhetoric off of "being for the people" while actually being controlled by the same influences corrupting the republicbased????????????
>>2843222the dark horse comics mog both
>>2843222Speaking of which, and some folx might give me flack here, but I found some of my favorite episodes of the original Clone Wars run were in the first half of season 3, which is where they take a break from the action for a while and throw a bunch of political intrigue plots at the audience. Special mention going to the episode where they actually give us a peak at the Separatist parliament and showed some sympathetic characters allied with the CIS, I honestly wish they leaned more into that but they didn't really until well after the series ended. As much as we're told that there are "heroes on both sides" my main gripe with how the whole Clone Wars saga is portrayed (and honestly really Star Wars in general) is that they often dont go into what it's like for "ordinary" guys that happen to be on the bad guy side and what their motives are and why they might sincerely believe their side is a force for good
>>2842741>They had some influence but not any de jure power.They literally took over the Republic's military.
>They are in the sense that there are no requirements of birth or class to joinIt doesn't matter if the Jedi Order itself is egalitarian when they enforce a non-egalitarian galactic order full of monarchies.
>People love to argue that George Lucas is some turbo reactionary for some reasonI'm not arguing that. George is obviously a left-liberal. However implicit in his liberal worldview are rightwing aspects. The Jedi being theocratic police using their powers to protect a bourgeois republic is the most obvious. And even though Lucas did try to add a critique of their hubris he still had this idealized idea of the Jedi Order that could have been the perfect police if only they weren't so arrogant.
>>2843268American seperation had a lot more to do with Indian policy than it did abolition
>>2843300>A lot of the best scenes were cut because fans are stupid.Shifting responsibility of creative failures onto the audience is cope. Lucas had complete control over the project. If he really wanted to add a scene into the movie no one was stopping him.
>>2843203It's scenes like this, that make me think Lucas is tone deaf to his own narrative decisions, or he conceptionally at the time, was writing the Jedi as flawed, in that that they are blinded by hubris, in order to set up the big tragedy of the trilogy.
But Lucas has stated, that the Jedi are not at fault at all. That they were "merely deceived".
<But how can that be true? Obi Wan was told almost the whole thing! >>2843150>I'm not a snob but Star Wars fans are funny because they take the setting more seriously than George Lucas ever did, because Lucas really wanted to make a movie for 12-year-olds with simple moral lessons.It's more like, he wanted to make movies that would sell toys to 12-year-olds, and to fulfil some incoherent creative vision, that keeps changing because of the former, or "reasons".
Real question:
Would leftypol support AEUG
Partisans the only real answer.
>>2843358Honestly I think it was a little of columns A and B. Yes the franchise was commercially driven, but I think the original film was a passion project on Lucas’ end. When you go back, it’s obviously a love letter to all his influences, like old pulpy sci-fi serials like Flash Gordon, Kurosawa, spaghetti westerns, etc.
>>2843321jar jar is the key to all of this
>>2843358In TPM Lucas was confusing 12yo for 8 year olds. To 8yo Jake Lloyd as Anakin and jarjar fart jokes are fine. But preteens as a group start having a shift in outlook. 12yo do not care for annoying little kids and could see that jarjar was stupid but did think Maul was badass.
However by unintentionally aiming at the 8yo child audience it alienated the adults who grew up with the more gritty version and were more sensitive to tone swings.
>>2843360For sure ROTS was the best out of them. I was trying to push back against the idea that "fans" are to blame for the prequels short comings. Feels like a twitter complaint about people not blindly praising everything about an IP simply because it exists.
>>2843387>who would /leftypol/ support during the mandalorian wars ?It's quite clear that Mandos are a military industrial complex scam, to create a cycle of conflict, in order to make a profit for Arms manufacturers, and sellers.
They are also secret pawns for an imperialist power, known as the Sith Empire.
Revan was right, but he's also an opportunist. Wanting to take power for himself. So critical support for the Jedi crusaders under Revan.
>>2843367Of course. Furthermore, Leftypol would lend critical support to the Principality of Zeon and uncritical support to both Haman's and Char's Neo Zeon.
>>2842268Confederacy seems more democratic as power is more local.
>futuristic scifi
>still capitalism and not a planned economy
I guess its lack of imagination.
Unique IPs: 33