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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internet about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
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The concept of social murder, as Engels developed it, represents one of Marxism's most genuinely valuable theoretical contributions to moral and political philosophy. Its power lies in a crucial insight: that moral responsibility for death and suffering need not be located in individual malice or conscious intention, but can inhere in structural arrangements that systematically produce preventable harm. This is an insight that transcends its original polemical context and remains analytically useful across ideological lines — one can accept it without accepting the broader Marxist theoretical apparatus, much as one can accept marginal utility theory without being a committed libertarian.

It is precisely *because* the concept is valuable that the use to which many Marxists have put it is so morally horrifying.

The Leninist and Maoist deployment of social murder runs as follows: capitalist structural arrangements produce preventable death on a mass scale; this constitutes a form of murder; murder of this magnitude and systematic character justifies revolutionary violence, suspension of civil and religious liberties, militarism, and the coercive apparatus of the vanguard state. The concept, in other words, is converted from a tool of moral analysis into a blank check for political violence. The gravity of the indictment is made to justify the severity of the remedy, with no ceiling specified and no accounting required.

The contradiction here is not merely rhetorical but logical, and it cuts at the internal consistency of the framework itself. The moral force of the social murder concept derives entirely from its consequentialist and structuralist character — it condemns capitalist arrangements not because capitalists are evil in their intentions but because their system produces measurable, preventable death regardless of intent. This is precisely what makes it powerful. But this logic is a double-edged instrument. Once moral responsibility is detached from intention and attached to structural outcomes, that standard cannot be selectively applied. It cannot be wielded against the old order and then quietly retired when evaluating the new one.

Yet this is exactly what actually existing socialist states required. The famines of the Great Leap Forward, the mortality of the Gulag system, the epidemiological decline of Soviet males in the 1960s and 70s, the environmental devastation that produced preventable illness across the Eastern bloc — these are, by the Engelsian standard, structurally produced preventable deaths attributable to a political-economic arrangement. The Maoist cannot coherently say that capitalist poverty constitutes murder regardless of intent, and then treat the Great Leap famine as a tragic miscalculation deserving of historical sympathy. The moral currency is the same; the accounting must be consistent.

The teleological escape — that revolutionary mortality is transitional, a necessary cost on the road to a classless society that will abolish structural violence permanently — fails on multiple grounds. It converts Marxism from an empirical critique into something structurally indistinguishable from a theodicy, in which present suffering is redeemed by a promised future that perpetually recedes and never arrives. It requires a confidence in historical destination that a century of evidence has given us no rational basis to hold. And it is rendered particularly untenable by the post-Deng case: the greatest measurable reduction in poverty and preventable death in human history was achieved not by deepening the revolutionary teleology but by pragmatically abandoning it in favor of liberalized markets. If the telos was working, it was working in reverse.

One can grant the Marxist the full force of the ideological critique of market socialism — that it lacks transcendent direction, that its horizon is reformist and pragmatic at best, managerial and bureaucratic at worst, that it offers administration rather than emancipation. This concession can be made entirely and the criticism still stands. For the question is not which system is theoretically more satisfying, but which system is more faithful to the moral standard that Marxists themselves established. On that standard — preventable death as the measure of structural evil — the empirical record of actually existing socialism does not merely fail to vindicate revolutionary violence. It indicts it by the revolution's own criteria.

What remains, then, is something morally troubling in a specific way. The concept of social murder was developed to make visible the human cost of arrangements that powerful interests preferred to render invisible. To take that concept — with its genuine moral seriousness — and use it as justification for mass killing, religious persecution, political imprisonment, and militarism is not simply a theoretical error. It is a moral inversion: the appropriation of a tool designed to defend human life as a warrant for destroying it. That Marxists of the Leninist and Maoist tradition have done this, often with complete absence of self-awareness, is not an embarrassment at the margins of their tradition. It is a central and unresolved contradiction at its heart.

Note that this is not an attack on the concept of social murder. I know a lot of capitalist polemicists whose conclusion amounts to "capitalism starves people, socialism starves people, so people starving is ok", a conclusion only wretched Godless demoniacs can come into. My criticism is on the ML application of social murder, namely "class exploitation is horrible so we can kill ten gazillion people"

the flaw in your argument is that:
1) it didn't happen

>>2846742
>that standard cannot be selectively applied
of course it can numbnuts
we don't give a shit about 'truth' and 'consistency' we're here to fucking win

>implying forced industrialization is socialism
nope


>>2846903
no lol

TLDR
>just open the markkkets bro
absolute state of the DSSA

OP can you write a goddamn page without pumping it through ai? Or have you so thoroughly internalized ai prose that you have an irresistible urge to em dash every paragraph?

It's not good to em dash constantly – it's actually fucking lazy. Find a way to write it out better – otherwise your paper starts looking like morse code.

>>2846742
Enjoyed reading this but isnt this just moralism? Leninists (at least here) reject this and appeal to class interest instead.

>>2846742
Sure but like the rest of the 20th century horrors it was an outgrowth of Rousseauian totalitarianism. No dissenting voices allowed under the sovereign will! When the crowd speaks that's God, and the Party speaks for the crowd.

>>2846980
It's in my class interest to be crowded like sardines in a concrete labyrinth full of strangers so I can inhale chemicals and microparticles and toil in a factory.

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>>2846742
I'm sorry, but no amount of Eurocommunism will save you this time. It is out of your hands, socdem-anon. The forces coming for you and yours will not be cowed, nor do they need even a facade of socialism as an enemy.

It doesn't matter if you spend every waking moment trying to defuse organized resistance to the new fascism necessary to fight for NATO and US hegemony, to the inevitable bitter end. It will not matter if you indeed convince every leftoid to adopt your christian morality and find every other cheek in their body for the fascists to trample.

It's all liberals now, nobody is coming to expropriate your oh-so-loved bourgeoisie. They are coming for your weath,your global privilege and the liberals at home will sooner do shock therapy at home to get in the graces of the new cold war winners than give up a single point of quarterly profit growth. You seem to think that your role as consumer in the imperial core is guaranteed.

Buddy, friendo. Before the century is over, NATO will look like South East Asia did in the 90s. It will be your kind who labors in sweatshops and produces cheap tat for the new Asian imperial core consumer base of global labor aristocracy. It will be your land which exists to impress (sex) tourists and landlords. Your politics? Oh boy, compradors all the way down.

You don't need to reject communism, authoritarianism, internationalism or what have you.

Nobody is coming to save you from your choices. You will enjoy them in full.

a political regime's policiesmassive casualties or harsh wartime measures are determined by external circumstances. For example, Leniwartime communist policies during the Russian Civil War were necessary because his enemies were extremely vicious and would stop at nothing. The White Army had no social base except for their brutal Cossack cavalry.

It's true that the Great Leap Forward caused unnecessary losses, but without the industrial reforms and opening up that took place in the first thirty years after the founding of New China, the country wouldn't have been able to take off (after all, the Four Thirds Plan, which was largely pushed by the "capitalists" who were later criticized, like Deng Xiaoping and Zhou Enlai, introduced fertilizer and related manufacturing technologies). So some strategies simply can't yield immediate results

>>2847245
I mean "the external environment is equally important," not "completely dependent on the external environment"


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