For a brief moment from 2016-2022 this was supposedly the pinnacle of online left-wing politics. Bernie was about to win, Democratic socialism was the future, China would inevitably democratize and the old boring MLism was dead. A few DSA-backed candidates winning city council seats in already progressive districts was treated as if the Bolsheviks had just stormed the Winter Palace.
The most ridiculous part was that the supposed divide between the Dirtbag Left and the DSA left barely existed. They agreed on healthcare, labor, foreign policy, housing, policing and virtually every other major issue. The defining ideological conflict of the era was essentially whether you were allowed to make edgy 90's raunch comedy jokes on podcasts. Entire feuds and endless Twitter meltdowns emerged from a disagreement that amounted to "can you say slurs ironically?"
The confidence was incredible, leftist genuinely talked as if DSA-aligned leadership of every major American city was inevitable, as if Bernie was one good news cycle away from the White House and as if a handful of podcasts by stand up comedians had somehow cracked the code of political history.
In retrospect, it all seems absurd. There was never a realistic path to any of it. The movement's grandest ambitions had essentially zero chance of materializing.
Then reality intervened. Bernie lost, The post-COVID world arrivedm Housing crises worsened, Migration became politically explosive, Major wars returnedm China didn't democratize and instead looked increasingly capable of navigating long-term crises without becoming a Western liberal democracy and the assumptions underlying the entire scene collapsed one by one.
A lot of the old supporters ended up as tankies. A smaller but noticeable number drifted toward the far right. Sometimes they somehow became both at once. The aesthetic transformation is almost as funny as the political one, the old Dirtbag Left revolved around schlubby podcasters making jokes about being ironically gay, the people who inherited its audience are often obsessed with MMA, military history, geopolitical realism and posting shirtless workout photos. The few remaining loyalists seem to have finally realized that their politics were never meaningfully different from the DSA's in the first place and appear perfectly content settling into the role of ordinary progressive liberals.
What a strange, stupid little farce that was.
>/ISG/
Fuck off to /ISG/ with this horseshit
Good thread to be a especific ISG thread, lets dunk more on the DSA new left typos and mock them loool
>>2847692>>2847691>bothered to respond award>>2847690Stavros was skinny back then.
and not a single trot left their room in that timespan
>>2847690>A few DSA-backed candidates winning city council seats in already progressive districts was treated as if the Bolsheviks had just stormed the Winter Palace.Was it? seems like conjecture. by whom? name a few people who treated it this way and provide quotes. evidence? Seems to be lacking currently.
>>2848057Mostly by their fans on Reddit and Twitter. The dirtbag left hosts themselves were never especially deep into politics beyond wanting healthcare and a bit of Great Society liberalism, that was pretty much the extent of it. The more overtly political types tended to orbit Grayzone and there was a lot of crossover back then. It's those people who worked/wrote for Grayzone who eventually morphed into campist/trad types, now doing interviews with Nazi meatheads like Jake Shields
Notice how the dirtbag left was exclusively fleshtubers? Like I can't think of a single vtuber that got on that train
>>2847691>>2847692/ISG/ stuff should be it's own board rather than just a cyclical tbh.
>>2847690>leftist genuinely talked as if DSA-aligned leadership of every major American city was inevitable>China didn't democratize>noticeable number drifted toward the far rightSchizo thread.
>>2848413>fleshtubersit was podcasters
>>2848089>The dirtbag left hosts themselves were never especially deep into politics beyond wanting healthcare and a bit of Great Society liberalismMatt Christman of Chapo would literally ramble about semi-obscure (for normies) Communist historical figures like August Willich regularly if he wasn't tardwrangled by Will Menaker
imagine being so online that you call the overwhelming majority of people who appear on video as their real life selves without some kind of weeb or furry 3d rigged avatar "fleshtubers"
The Left Wing of Capital always reinvents itself and pretends to be brand new with new ideas. This has been happening for 150 years.
>>2848434Again, it applied to Grayzone writers(mostly the women for some reason)
>>2848482>the overwhelming majority of people who appear on video as their real life selvesHave you considered just showing the thing you're talking about? Like the video is about a thing, so show the thing? Like why should the viewer have to needlessly use the part of their brain that processes human faces (social data) looking right at them (instinctively registered as a threat) for extended periods of time, as well as waste the bandwidth on that (human faces are a video compression nightmare)
Like if you want the viewer to feel like they're talking to someone just use a fucking talksprite.
>>2848473>vtubers>mainstreamyou live in a bubble
>>2848568That was really fucking weird. All of the Grayzone women ended up marrying not just a little chuddy guys, but what were basically the platonic ideal of modern Fascists and reactionaries. I have no idea how that even happens. The most relevant example right now is Heather Kaiser, Joe Kent's second wife.
>>2848631My tech illiterate mom shows me vtuber stuff sometimes. She didn't even know what a vtuber was the first few times untill I mentioned it, she just sees a lil cartoon cat talking about horses or recipes on facebook and thinks it's fun.
Who here remembers the Chapo subreddit? Everyone would say cringe shit like "folks" and "y'all". But it was still a breath of fresh air since they didn't ban you for calling people "retard" or "bitch" unlike every single other cancerous communist sub.
>>2847690Some became retard anti-imperialists too
"Dirt bag" and it's some rich NYC yuppie who's parents paid their way
>>2848687After the Chapo subdreddit got banned, some of the users created a new site : hexbear.net
I was there in the initial days of that website. It was exactly as cringy and drama filled as you would expect. Today the site is almost dead (it used to be much more active than leftypol)
>>2848736>>2848687Most of them are on r/ShitLiberalsSay now, it's exactly the same atmosphere, Western leftists acting like they personally defeated the Nazis in WW2. Like this was their reaction to the firebomb Walmart tweet.
Makes you wish they remained demsocs
>>2848749
>what have we accomplished
>ussr
>to paraphrase disco elysium
Lmao. Infantile
My contempt for the terminally online grows every day
>>2848634It’s complicated, because in a lot of left-wing media spaces, the women who become the public ‘faces’ tend to be more conventionally attractive and normie-leaning, while less conventionally attractive women are often kept behind the scenes. I’m not saying this means they don’t genuinely believe in their politics or are just grifting, but it can still shape priorities and worldview. So outside of situations with a clear power imbalance, these women generally tend to pair up with partners who are also conventionally attractive and appear ‘normie’ on the surface, that's how you grayzone writers marrying guys like Joe Kent.
>>2848634>I have no idea how that even happens. The most relevant example right now is Heather Kaiser, Joe Kent's second wife.Grayzone promoted Joe Kent's campaign and she was also ex-military intelligence. Kash Patel has been one of their sources.
Max Blumenthal seems at least somewhat personally deranged and got into this American right-wing/libertarian, LaRouche adjacent nexus. One can't be too harsh because they can be on point about some things, and most journalists do get grafted onto something because that's the only way they can make money, but it does feel fishy. There's a faction of the American right-wing establishment courting and gathering left-wing voices to counter other imperialist factions. Same people who pushed Tulsi, phony popular left-right alliances, etc. They'll say a bunch of stuff that left anti-imperialists agree with it and then drop in something crazy like how Charlie Kirk was about to become the next Yahya Sinwar yeah sure bro.
This second tweet. Okay if you oppose Ukraine aid, that's fine in isolation. But Bowman was targeted by AIPAC which funded him out of office because of his opposition to Israeli policy. Liam Cosgrove is an Epoch Times guy. I don't believe in censoring people because of retweets or whatever, but the Grayzone are journalists, right? They know who these people are. I just don't trust it.
>>2848641>My tech illiterate mom shows me vtuber stuff sometimes. go talk to sportsball normies and church normies. your mom is not a good example because she's YOUR mom.
>>2848856>your mom is not a good example because she's YOUR mom.Fair point. Though I have seen quite a lot of vtubers cover horse racing stuff since Uma Musume came out, even stuff relating to horses not in that series. Horse racing is a sportsball. I wonder if we might see vtubers worm their way into other sports through that.
>>2848854>oh wait… you want to throw in a giant 3d rigged weeb avatar in the mix?It's preferable to fleshtubing, but I agree that ideally neither would be present.
>Oh so you're just recreating the "flesh" problem but even more distracting.How the hell is a vtuber
more distracting than a human face? They're clearly a cartoon so they don't activate threat mode when making eye contact with the viewer. Like a vtuber making eye contact in like a small mammal making eye contact.
SNCA
Irrelevant. Die.
Everyone cares about this. Relevant. Live.
>>2848925also I think a lot of people want flesh tubers simply so they can know it's not a CIA agent or AI voice talking to them. people want a name and a face so you can look up the person, look into their background, etc,
personally I hate that because it kills the anonymity of the early wild west internet, but it's increasingly necessary with glowies and AI taking over everything.
>>2848983>also I think a lot of people want flesh tubers simply so they can know it's not a CIA agent […] talking to them.I'm much more inclined to assume a fleshtuber is a CIA or think tank agent due to the sheer number of them that turned out to be. Like that very notion makes fleshtubing itself a suspicious act in contrast to a mere voice over.
It's like if a program says "No Virus" on the download page. A reputable program wouldn't need to insist such.
>AI voiceSeeing flesh doesn't lower my suspicion of that either. When a fleshtuber comes on my feeds it's a 1/32 chance that's a deepfake trying to let my guard down, or 1/16 chance it's someone using an LLM to write their scripts in a way that's difficult to decern from regular algorithmspeak for the first 10 seconds.
Also I personally don't really mind TTS when it's something obvious like espeak or vocaloid since it's not much different from just reading text with a screen reader. I understand why TTS is usually a turnoff for people tho, even just from a UX perspective.
>people want a name and a face so you can look up the person, look into their background, etc,That mindset is probably part of why I have such a viceral reaction to fleshtubers: it normalizes and creates expectation for self-doxxing as a default. It not only does nothing to deter glowies, but pushes out most non-glowies from spaces it's expected in. The notion itself glows, really. You figure out what glows with critical thinking skills. Using seeing flesh as a crutch is an openly declared vulnerability and shouldn't be tolerated.
>>2849033those are good points. i still would rather people just present information without any physical form. fleshtubing and vtubing are both cringe
>Dirtbag Left
The only people who used that term were the radlibs and libs who were trying to scare people of the alt-left, then renamed it to Dirtbag Left (when alt-left didn't caught on afterwords) to also bitch at people for follow the idpol dogma for twitter radlibs
>>2849278Regardless of its origins, it was clearly a noticeable social trend. It was basically a bunch of upper-middle-class failchildren who agreed on 99% of politics. They agreed on virtually every political issue imaginable, the only thing they could work themselves into a feud over was over whether ironic, raunchy gay jokes were acceptable.
>>2849366>Regardless of its originsit lived and died by it's origins; And the only people who used it during it's short run were
online leftist who were dumb enough to use the oblivious trap or outsider who change there ideology afterwards when it was a less popular term to milk like red scare.
Pretty sure Cumtown was about bullying Adam and had nothing to do with politics.
But who cares, i'm gay.
>>2848736the newsthread aint bad but its practically a different site
>>2848413>Notice how the dirtbag left was exclusively fleshtubers?probably the stupidest observation you could possibly make tbh
>>2848736>I was there in the initial days of that website.I liked it during the initial days and built good rapport with some of the initial players, one of which got accused of grooming or whatever, vanished, and then the place went to shit really fast when it became a soapbox for literally three users.
>>2849562>>2849589>>2849595No wonder Hasan ended up being the only guy from online leftist politics who actually got anywhere. Everyone else was either making BreadTube video essays about how children’s movies from the 2000s were secretly socialist or they were degens like this.
>>2849606The political right has had the opposite problem, too many meatheads, Instagram models and CTE-ridden martial artists and too few writers, original thinkers, or independent political organizers.
>>2849606Adam Friedland has a show where he interviewed a raging Zionist politician and pushed back on his narrative at every step. It's astounding that him of all the people on cumtown is the most successful. It almost makes me proud of the little bug.
Stav has a decent following and a boring podcast, but he collabs with hasan quite a bit.
Nick is my best friend.
>>2849610Stav is much bigger (lol) than Adam and Nickm purely in terms of numbers and followers he is vastly more popular.
>>2849613Let me know when Stav gets anyone with wikipedia page longer than 2 scrolls on his podcast, or gets material beyond crowd work for 40 minutes.
>>2849606>No wonder Hasan ended up being the only guy from online leftist politics who actually got anywhere.hasan had every single thing going for him: he's related to media people, went to a good school and interned at some CIA thing, he's consistent with his schedule, has monetized practically every waking hour of his day, isn't afraid of compromising his politics a little bit for insider access into the democratic party machine and is incredibly hot. from the chapos the only one who has sort of glowie connections is will menaker, every single chapo has strictly separated their podcast from their personal life, and the chapos pretty much wanted nothing to do with dems after canvassing for bernie, thus they were cast aside. people here don't believe me but they would have been insanely big IF bernie had won the primary, they would've been A LOT more cozy with power.
>>2849620>they would have been insanely big IF bernie had won the primaryThat's kind of my personal alt-history scenario, the one I've thought about the most. I don't even care that much about the geopolitical side of it. What I'm interested in how much it would have changed popular culture, the political battle would've shifted almost entirely to mainstream liberals versus a loose mix of Bernie supporters and trolls who mostly just wanted to annoy liberals. That dynamic already existed in real life, but in either of those scenarios I think it would've become the defining political conflict in the late 2010's.
>>2849606there's no incentive to be anything but a grifter. the deprogram guys are a bit to the left of hasan but they aren't as chadly and charismatic.
>>2849718hakim absolutely does not carry himself well, second thought is vague, overproduced and uncontroversial enough to carry his 2m (the majority of which, let's face it, are socdem/demsoc types) and yugopnik seems to be a fair bit more personable and (following that) takes himself a little less seriously
i haven't paid attention in about half a decade but last i remember he makes it no secret he's balls deep stalin/nk/gadaffi/tianamen/etc. truth which just isn't going to catch on
>>2849745>i haven't paid attention in about half a decade but last i remember he makes it no secret he's balls deep stalin/nk/gadaffi/tianamen/etc. truth which just isn't going to catch onOn his twitter he has frequent crossover with ACP types and he does seem sympathetic to nationalist causes
>>2849766strange route to go down considering how much hasan's taken a liking to him, it's not like they can offer him much
>>2849748weird how someone with such fringe opinions is so uncombative
>>2849610That interview was something else, it was like talking to a lizard.
>>2849606Pretty easy to get big in "the business" when you dickride zionist democrats
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