No bait no rageful discussion just honest question, Why was he so hated?
It seems to me that By all means he is an orthodox marxist and his writings perfectly fine. And his criticisms of the USSR seem non-objectionable to most people (Totalitarianism is bad, More party discourse needed, More worker democracy, etc.)
Why is he so hated among many marxist circles? Hate doesn't describe it, He is thoroughly despised.
I'm all ears. and will respond if I have time.
>>2856178He was pro party form, which inevitably devolves into statism, if not 'totalitarianism' then social democracy or other forms of statist government.
>>2856190Well? If he wanted more liberty while maintaining the party them you'd just get social democracy + worker co-ops, otherwise you'd have to advocate for council democracy which would render the party useless. Trotsky just seems like a sore loser trying to appeal to moralistic westerners but in criticising Stalinism he only served to save it, "if only we modified it a little" without touching the foundation.
he was innocent of everything he was accused of & played a crucial role in the revolution. however he was also genuinely an impulsive, egotistic wrecker piece of shit & a better USSR wouldve just been able to expel him from the party or make him productive opposition while waiting for him to actually fuck up bad enough to exile him
>>2856198>wrecker piece of shit Was he justified or not?
>>2856178bro did the last version of this thread even fall off the board yet?
last time I gave you this playlist
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nYnSplhJec&list=PLXUFLW8t2snsEF6_Sp7CrdTTT91Pqf0Bc >>2856212He could have lived and thrived, he was literally sent on the standard soviet over excited party member time out session; exotic Istanbul by the sea, decided to flee to Italy, then go on to antagonise the people left so much that one of them decided to pay him a visit and icepick him, and apparently he was well aware of what was going to happen, wrote he had no regrets because he had done everything for communism, and left study cells around the west that attracted people who were ambivalent at best on the soviet union who studied Marxism
Also his work on uneven development is definitely worth a read
>>2856223
>he was a heckin JEW
like marx?
>>2856223
Trotsky was a fanatic but he wasn't known for being dishonest, the disagreements with Stalin were that Stalin had doomed the soviet union for not immediately launching a foreverwar on the west (and everywhere else for resources) because failing to do so would doom the soviet union in the long term; his words were harsh, and the road not taken looks like less of a gamble even though…
>>2856227>for not immediately launching a foreverwar on the westI don't remember where exactly but he explicitly discussed this and advocated against it, He took more of an issue with the 'Union's handling of the Chinese revolution, Republicans during the civil war, etc.
- He may or may not have been involved in a conspiracy to overthrow the Soviet government via terrorism.
- His critiques (especially his criticism of Soviet "authoritarianism) were extremely hypocritical given his tenure in the Soviet government.
- He was by all accounts and arrogant, narcissistic prick who thought everybody else was an idiot and was just generally unpleasant to be around.
That said a lot of his critiques turned out to be accurate even if there was hypocrisy.
>>2856244> He may or may not have been involved in a conspiracy to overthrow the Soviet government via terrorism.Elaborate?
Or at least give a credible for me to look up to?
>>2856248Grover Furr, grovelling through the soviet archives makes the best case for
USSR would be better off if he ended up in charge, if for nothing else because he lacked the personality quirks of Stalin, such as murderous paranoia or tolerance for serial rapists.
The only time you can really say Trotsky was right is when he warned the party about Chiang Kai Shek’s fascism
>>2856253Lol, lmao even
>>2856244 and he lost
>1. He may or may not have been involved in a conspiracy to overthrow the Soviet government via terrorism.and even if this is proven nobody should care unless they can additionally prove it'd result in a negative outcome trotsky could immediately perceive
/thread
>>2856253If only he wasn't totally unlikeable and unbearable to be around, they might have put him in charge, then he could have done all the things Stalin did anyway
He didn't even have any disagreements on theory he just crashed out because of BPD, now everyone has to pretend he would've been communism jesus
>>2856178>Why is he so hated among many marxist circles? Because he was no different than any other bolsheviks and created an entire new "ideology" based on very artificial changes from the basic ML that spiraled into the thousands of minor trotskyist parties that we have today.
It's as if someone decided to split whichever political movement he belonged to because he didn't get to rule by adding ideological quirks to say "look, we're actually a different bland of X-ism. As such, it's justified that we form a new opposition!".
>By all means he is an orthodox marxist and his writings perfectly fineIt goes beyond that. Trotsky was part of the left-opposition during the interregnum after Lenin's death. This meant that he supported the idea of extracting surplus to invest into industrialization by undercutting the peasants. It's the exact same policies that Stalin later based himself upon to collectivize and industrialize the country.
Similarly, Trotsky was ruthless too. He repressed the Kronstadt rebellion. The idea that he was a virtuous character in opposition to Stalin is just wrong. Both had deep personality flaws and both had the same economic program.
He was a hero
>>2856178He lost the power struggle. That's literally it.
Trotsky was adamantly defencist of the USSR, he shared like 90 percent of his political platform with Stalin, and despite that he's still slandered as some kind of fascist Bond villain while shit like Molotov-Ribbentrop gets memoryholed.
>>2856402
One must admit trotsky was excellent at phrasemongering
>>2856403Where do you see the hipocrisy?
Giving a bribe to a genocidal colonialist state so that they lave you alone for a while is much more justifiable than to defect to a genocidal colonialist state and fling shit from the sidelines.
>>2856178Not a Trot, but if you ask the average Stalinist the answers are
>He collaborated with the Axis>He was a Zionist>He planned on killing all of the Communists>He collaborated with the West>He forcibly removed 6,000,000 people from their homes and moved them to other parts of the USSRThis is all sounding very familiar
>>2856492No i think the stalinist critique is that he wasn't ride or die with the hood but a flake who moved sideways
Trotsky’s writings are the father of Anti-Communist-thought in the western world, I don’t necessarily think that it is his fault sense his anti-Stalinist rhetoric was bastardized into anti-communist rhetoric but Trots are still spiritually fbi agents
>>2856178menshevik revisionist who conspired with enemies of the revolution to remove stalin as premier 100% because he was malding that both lenin and the party liked stalin better. in exile he formed the 100% bourgeois CPUSA that to this day has yet to acheive anything, and wrote a bunch of cringe shit about how the proletariat of oppressed nations couldn't do revolution properly and they needed le western left to help. got booted out of the USA and went to mexico where he hooked up with frieda kahlo: quintessential libtard postcolonialist art ho who was pretending to be indigenous.
in short:
>he a snake>he stupid>he don't got bars>his bitch is wack >>2856443why? I like being cool and having cool friends.
>>2857041>can't spout commodity-producing furrTRVTH without open mysoginyever wonder why nobody likes you guys?
>>2857094just saying he got MOGGED so hard by stalin his gf had a mustache.
>>2856950They repaid that by assassinating him after bombing the soviet embassy
RE: The doctors' plot
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