/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>2859240
>They get nowhere enough hate as they deserve for what they're doing in Kashmir…
Inter-imperialist war.

>>2859259
No, Most kashmiris just want independe or at least civil administration from the brutal occupation.

>>2859240
(assuming you are indian)
does the indian subcontinent have any revolutionary potential? also who is picrel? saw him in the oc thread, couldn't bother to look into it

>>2859287
Indian electoral communism failed, not a single state government is communist led, naxalism failed, operation green hunt and subsequent operations plus Rss/BJP inroads into tribal communities has eroded any support CPI maoist would have. Everyone has a cell phone and can become petit bourgeois via content and cyber scams, it’s over.

>>2859303
all you listed were deviationist liberal-hugging "ML" parties.
>Everyone has a cell phone and can become petit bourgeois via content and cyber scams
so time for ICP to recruit industrial-capitalist India is what you're saying?
>it’s over
It just begun

>>2859467
You’re four euroaches who couldn’t organize your way out a paper bag you have no right to speak

>>2859483
The proletariat is an obstacle to communism, the last 150 years has proven such

>>2859303
The Marxist position for bourgeois elections is not abstentionism, but rather organizing into a distinct revolutionary party of the working class for proletarian class domination that is independent of the bourgeoisie. Using the election to count forces and demonstrate its program to the masses, even if its candidates have no chance of winning. Voting for communist candidates is a duty if you call yourself a communist, to develop experience in the class struggle and spread propaganda to the masses.

Have you forgotten what Marx and Engels wrote about how communists should act in a bourgeois democracy?

Let's see quotes:

<Even where there is no prospect of achieving their election the workers must put up their own candidates to preserve their independence, to gauge their own strength and to bring their revolutionary position and party standpoint to public attention. They must not be led astray by the empty phrases of the democrats, who will maintain that the workers’ candidates will split the democratic party and offer the forces of reaction the chance of victory. All such talk means, in the final analysis, that the proletariat is to be swindled. The progress which the proletarian party will make by operating independently in this way is infinitely more important than the disadvantages resulting from the presence of a few reactionaries in the representative body.

<Karl Marx and Frederick Engels, 1850, "Address of the Central Committee to the Communist League"

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/communist-league/1850-ad1.htm

<The first great step of importance for every country newly entering into the movement is always the organisation of the workers as an independent political party, no matter how, so long as it is a distinct workers' party. And this step has been taken, far more rapidly than we had a right to hope, and that is the main thing. That the first programme of this party is still confused and highly deficient, that it has set up the banner of Henry George, these are inevitable evils but also only transitory ones. The masses must have time and opportunity to develop and they can only have the opportunity when they have their own movement–no matter in what form so long as it is only their own movement–in which they are driven further by their own mistakes and learn wisdom by hurting themselves.

<Frederick Engels, “Letters: Marx-Engels Correspondence 1886”, Engels to Friedrich Adolph Sorge In Hoboken

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1886/letters/86_11_29.htm

<Complete abstention from political action is impossible. The abstentionist press participates in politics every day. It is only a question of how one does it, and of what politics one engages in. For the rest, to us abstention is impossible. The working-class party functions as a political party in most countries by now, and it is not for us to ruin it by preaching abstention. Living experience, the political oppression of the existing governments compels the workers to occupy themselves with politics whether they like it or not, be it for political or for social goals. To preach abstention to them is to throw them into the embrace of bourgeois politics. The morning after the Paris Commune, which has made proletarian political action an order of the day, abstention is entirely out of the question.

<We want the abolition of classes. What is the means of achieving it? The only means is political domination of the proletariat. For all this, now that it is acknowledged by one and all, we are told not to meddle with politics. The abstentionists say they are revolutionaries, even revolutionaries par excellence. Yet revolution is a supreme political act and those who want revolution must also want the means of achieving it, that is, political action, which prepares the ground for revolution and provides the workers with the revolutionary training without which they are sure to become the dupes of the Favres and Pyats the morning after the battle. However, our politics must be working-class politics. The workers' party must never be the tagtail of any bourgeois party; it must be independent and have its goal and its own policy.

<The political freedoms, the right of assembly and association, and the freedom of the press — those are our weapons. Are we to sit back and abstain while somebody tries to rob us of them? It is said that a political act on our part implies that we accept the exiting state of affairs. On the contrary, so long as this state of affairs offers us the means of protesting against it, our use of these means does not signify that we recognise the prevailing order.

<Karl Marx and Frederick Engels, "Apropos Of Working-Class Political Action".

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1871/09/21.htm

Lenin also agrees with me if you read the text “Left-Wing” Communism: an Infantile Disorder in the section written "Should We Participate in Bourgeois Parliaments?", so I will leave the link to the page if you want to read it:

https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1920/lwc/ch07.htm

>>2859525
And how has that worked so far in India?

>>2859535
I recall the West Bengal election and the apologists who advocated voting for the "lesser evil" as an excuse to avoid voting for the Communists. I would argue that both the abstentionists and the "lesser evil" apologists have forgotten that a revolutionary socialist party exists to use bourgeois elections to spread propaganda, gauge the balance of forces, and plunge the bourgeois state into crisis by pushing bourgeois democracy to its limits with proposals to democratize the economy—all while remaining independent of the bourgeoisie.
The goal for Communists is not to worry about winning elections, but rather to advance the class struggle, build dual power, and prepare the working masses for the moment a revolutionary situation arises.

Until that revolutionary situation arrives, there are many approaches to bourgeois elections that align with the writings of Marx, Engels, and Lenin. Winning is of no importance to me.

>>2859589
What does that have anything to do with how CPI Marxist governed Kerala or West Bengal or anywhere else?

>>2859590
I recall the defeatist rhetoric from years ago, which I also see in other countries, manifesting as abstentionism or voting for the "lesser evil," where people concoct excuses to avoid voting for communists simply because the latter have made mistakes. I realized that this narrative undermines the ability to spread propaganda among those questioning society; instead, they receive a liberal response characterized by apathy or false consciousness, leading them to blame a straw man rather than understanding the society they live in and building the solidarity needed to advance the class struggle.

You could very well organize within a different communist party if you believe the CPI(M) is opportunistic and won't bring about a revolution.

What is the state of the dalits there lately?

>>2859606
Or maybe the proletariat has rejected communism because you have no ability to govern or transform anything, have you considered that?

>>2859287
Pakistani here. I think both our nations are inherently flawed and our socialist movements have been gutted. At least here we know we're crippled and have learned to live with it. Our only real strategic aim now is to bring our country closer to China. The Indian "left" meanwhile put its faith in the Naxalites and the global academic left and both ultimately turned out to be failures.

>>2859649
You are a fucking nuclear armed state, do something with it