/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>Why would the society described in Plato's Republic be undesirable according to a Marxist perspective?
Who said it was undesirable?
But the problem with such governance is it will naturally drift toward gerontocracy due to modern medecine.

>>2874029
The decay of order is also a theme in Plato. Stalin also writes upon how all "organic" movements have life cycles of youth and death.
>>2874016
>Why would the society described in Plato's Republic be undesirable
Well, I suppose it depends-
>according to a Marxist perspective?
Did you read the text? Plato's Noble Lies are literally (i) Religion and (ii) Class Society [e.g. the Myth of Metals].
>We know all the problems with democracy and how the masses of people can't be trusted
But Plato's primary political criticism is really that the elites become perverted by power and money, and so they must be decoupled by conditions of (i) intra-marriage, (ii) eugenics, (iii) shared property, (iv) austerity, etc.
>the republic abolishes private property and calls for communal raising of children
No it doesn't. Shared property only extends to the Guardian caste of 'philosopher-kings' [e.g. Warrior Priests]. The division of labour in the lower orders presupposes private property and commerce.
>Being ruled by the wise is undoubtedly the best system of government
Yes, but Marxism is not about systems of government.

Plato is UTOPIAN SOCIALIST, ANTI-USURY.

marxism isn't about what's desirable or undesirable it's about what develops as part of how the laws of society move

>>2886203
>Aristotle's criticisms of the Republic are far from showing him at his best, but at least he did grasp one vital fact: that even Plato's ruling 'Guardian' class (phylakes) could not be happy. 'And if the Guardians are not happy, who else can be?', he asks. 'Certainly not the technitai and the mass of the banausoi'. As for the city pictured in Plato's Laws, described as his 'second-best State', it is both so grimly repressive and so unworkable that even Plato's admirers usually prefer to let it drop out of sight.

>The wildly exaggerated respect which has been paid down the ages to Plato's political thought is partly due to his remarkable literary genius and to the anti-democratic instincts of the majority of scholars. Plato was anti-democratic in the highest degree. It would not be fair to call him typically 'oligarchic' in the usual Creek sense: he did not want the rich as such to rule. But both Plato's 'best' and his 'second-best' States were iron-bound oligarchies, designed to prevent change or development of any kind, and permanently excluding from political rights every single one of those who actually worked for their living. Plato's arrogant contempt for all manual workers is nicely displayed in the passage from the Republic about the 'bald-headed little tinker' (VI.495c-6a).

tl,dr: Fuck Plato, read Aristotle.

>>2874016
>and what better system than to be ruled by chads?
a system where such "chads" support the abolition of commodity production, value form and capital-wage labour contradictory relation

>>2886203
Hannah arendt and karl popper have been a mistake, Aristotle is usually preferred by western "democracies", in other words hes a fraud, your text proves this

>>2886232
Well I guess, if you're a NazBol who wants to rule over the powerless plebs then go ahead and idolize Plato.

Please , please somebody post the

No thank you,
I dont believe in ideas (philosophy) stalin book meme.

I need it, please.


I would suck your dick if i could

>>2890119
Yall are my only hope

>>2874016
>Being ruled by the wise is undoubtedly the best system of government.
Who gets to decide what wisdom is? the philosopher kings. who do the philosopher kings decide is wise? themselves! it's a snake eating its own ass.

it is literally an apologia for oligarchy you retard. We want democracy which Aristotle described.but was against.

>>2890134
Well currently Chinese are occupying learned institutes so they obviously would call for such a thing. As far as intelligence goes a concrete definition of it has not been defined.

>>2890143
>Well currently Chinese are occupying learned institutes
what does that have to do with "philosopher kings"
>so they obviously would call for such a thing
1 question, 2 statements

1. why should i care what any one "calls for" instead of what they actually do?
   
2. I see no evidence that they would "call for" philosopher kings
   
3. your conclusion is completely unrelated to your premise. "occupying learned institutes" has nothing to do with "philosopher kings" or even with the more general "rule by the wise" since a person can be wise without being educated, and vice-versa.

aristocracy can be argued for in cybernetic terms. the aristos are fit to rule because they are the wisest, the most knowledgeable. they have the most accurate model of society. the good regulator theorem and the internal model principle both state that to regulate a system you must have an accurate model of that system. without such modelling good regulation cannot be effected. therefore the aristos, the vanguard, should rule

>>2890161
But what may qualify "the best"?
Plato properly sees that duty to the public good must be made by the decoupling of power from money, from a lack of personal possession, and by constant self-improvement (e.g. eugenics). The entrepeneurial aristocracy of people like Yarvin sees money, power and wisdom as all synonymous, and so aristocracy becomes plutocracy.

>Idealist political philosophy
>Preservation of class society
>Anti-democratic elite rule
>Eugenics

Holy shit Plato was ML??