Do you guy think the democratic socialists will become major players in future us politics? seeing as people want le third option away from the dems and republicans while being too retarded for communism or fascism past its basic utranationalist principles do you think they'll turn to demsocs or some other form of governance? (pic super rel)
Wethever they will depend on if they reiterate the mistake of 2020. When Biden won their number rapidly collapsed and the leadership of relevant branches decided that things were on a good path and disengaged from partisan politics.
I do not see them being important at the national level ever but if they exist as an entryist party way to funnel radicals and actual leftists in the Dem party then they do more good than bad.
>>2874032Yes. Whatever "democratic socialist" means, like it means happy-slappy left populism, but they took New York City which makes them a major player in U.S. politics. AOC could get elected president in 2028 although she might not call herself that now.
>>2874032no. they've acheived the exact same penetration for the last decade. the party has more than enough tools to boot them out if they cause a problem.
>>2874055People tend to think in terms of linear progression but it's not like that. Political life alternates between liberalizing and conservative phases, but it's an uneven process. Also it takes a form that is more like a wave. If you watch waves while on the beach, you might see what looks like waves building up but they peter out, and then after what looks like several false starts a really large wave breaks.
In the U.S., Bernie's campaigns could've just been false starts. It's an error to pronounce it dead. He just was ahead of public opinion, and he tried to accelerate the shift before the underlying social conditions were mature enough, before its normal time. That's why his movement lost momentum and collapsed. But later on conditions can change so a similar movement returns in a stronger form.
Trump lost in 2020 but that might have been due to an external shock with COVID. He lost power before his time was really up because the populist-nationalist current hadn't actually exhausted itself. In a sense the election
was "stolen" from him (by a bug), and then once the shock wore off, he came back because the underlying momentum was still in his favor. But now you have a more institutionalized and "mature" MAGA that is losing energy maybe.
DSA will not form a third party and is basically similar to what militant did in Labour. However, it will do a massive push in the DNC and with extra pressure from MTG,Massie and Carlson forming a list, it is only a matter of time by at max a decade where governance will end up perhaps socdem
They already are. 1 governorship, NYC mayor, 2 senators and potentially ~10 reps is already a big deal.
>>2874032I think probably yes, if you mean major player as in third party probably not. The US system as is cannot have third parties.
It's clear that neoliberalism is in crisis all around the world. The growth of DSA is a symptom of that crisis. How will the crisis be resolved? Maybe authoritarian take over by the far-right, maybe the liberals take away the energy of the left again with a new deal style realignment, maybe we flip back and forth between red and blue neoliberals until DSA gathers enough power to go further than the new deal. (not an accelerationist; the last option seems the least likely by far)
>>2874069 assuming zohran does well and keeps taking easy dunks its easy to see them gain power so you're def right its too early to count them out, I was moreso referring to could they make real change as opposed to just being slightly pessimistic liberals but do you really see an AOC win in 2028 (I could see it if the maga right keeps messing up)
>>2874266 I had meant in terms of making real change as opposed to just big names
>>2874288>I was moreso referring to could they make real change as opposed to just being slightly pessimistic liberals Eh idk. For now I'm thinking of it more as like a counter-formula that is emerging and gaining strength. What it actually does in power is up to the people involved and also what's possible. It'll also eventually exhaust itself as well.
>but do you really see an AOC win in 2028 (I could see it if the maga right keeps messing up)I think it's possible. Stranger things have happened. It sounds like she's going to run. But whether that happens, idk.
>>2874297>I think it's possible. Stranger things have happened. It sounds like she's going to run. But whether that happens, idk.A Kamala/AOC ticket will be a bigger blowout then 2024 was
>>2874307 depends on the opposition I think it would be close for someone like vance but not really a Rubio I'm more of an aoc-bidenist
>>2874292it's tough of course, predicting the future. I feel the authoritarian right has a much greater lead in subverting American institutions; they have a model to follow. Their problem is they are (currently) lead by a retard who is generally way more interested in the interior design details of his memorial ballroom. A new deal done by the same method as FDR doesn't seem possible in this moment, can it really be done with only slim majorities in the legislative branch and a presidency? Through all gridlock of corporate lobbying, inflammatory right-wing media, and oppositional courts? Of course who knows how the situation could worsen for the proletariat, as you point out.
>>2874288I very much believe AOC should run, I think there is very little reason not to. Could she win? I think probably it would require a poor republican candidate, and her to avoid putting her foot in her mouth or otherwise misstepping as she sometimes does.
I'm really glad that Americans can now have more treats while they rape the Global South with the new war that is raising oil prices and causing fertilizer shortages.
I'm very happy for you Americans. Enjoy the treats!
>>2874333Why should she run compared to going to the senate?
>>2874319>A new deal done by the same method as FDR doesn't seem possible in this moment, can it really be done with only slim majorities in the legislative branch and a presidency?Yeah the polarization right now is embedded very deeply and according to polls people still believed in American institutions such as congress and the presidency. Now there is no popular institution or real belief in American institutions. The Congress is filled with unreasonable gridlock and decaying conditions at home. This is leading the President to take more executive measures which gets erased by the blue neolib then the red neolib undoes it four years later. It is a never ending cycle of decay and sincere incompetence and the Courts allowed infinite money in politics which makes it even more difficult to change. This will more likely than not lead to remaining popular institution to take advantage: Ths military. The US believes it is exceptional but they are no different to this than any other country. Eventually some military strongman is going to take advantage of it and do something like dismiss congress and the court to "protect the general welfare" to the applause of the people because the institutions are that unpopular
>>2874451obviously just my opinion and all, but in order to mount a successful run for president the main things you need are name ID and fundraising. AOC is a fundraising juggernaut, and has one of the highest name ID in politics. People (that want to run for president) move from house of representatives on to other higher offices while they are building up those things, but AOC already has them. So most people I guess would say she needs to be older and have a longer career/more experience. I believe those things are valued by DC insiders in the media and political consultants but I'm not sure real voters care about them all that much over message, vibes and stuff like that, speaking of course as a young person who is biased.
>>2874069this is the dumbest shit I've ever read. an idiotic vibes based false consciousness because the current wave of libtard american shills can't admit:
every american is an ethnocentrist reactionary >>2874032To answer this, you would have to say whether the DSA is independent of the bourgeoisie or not; given their subservience to the Democratic Party—which is undemocratic and serves the bourgeoisie that finances it—I would say no. The Workers' Party must remain independent of the bourgeoisie, even if it has no chance of winning; otherwise, the masses will simply be co-opted by illusions created by the bourgeoisie.
Now let's begin with three quotes from Marx and Engels on how communists should act in a bourgeois democratic election:
<Even where there is no prospect of achieving their election the workers must put up their own candidates to preserve their independence, to gauge their own strength and to bring their revolutionary position and party standpoint to public attention. They must not be led astray by the empty phrases of the democrats, who will maintain that the workers’ candidates will split the democratic party and offer the forces of reaction the chance of victory. All such talk means, in the final analysis, that the proletariat is to be swindled. The progress which the proletarian party will make by operating independently in this way is infinitely more important than the disadvantages resulting from the presence of a few reactionaries in the representative body.
<Karl Marx and Frederick Engels, 1850, "Address of the Central Committee to the Communist League"https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/communist-league/1850-ad1.htm
<The first great step of importance for every country newly entering into the movement is always the organisation of the workers as an independent political party, no matter how, so long as it is a distinct workers' party. And this step has been taken, far more rapidly than we had a right to hope, and that is the main thing. That the first programme of this party is still confused and highly deficient, that it has set up the banner of Henry George, these are inevitable evils but also only transitory ones. The masses must have time and opportunity to develop and they can only have the opportunity when they have their own movement–no matter in what form so long as it is only their own movement–in which they are driven further by their own mistakes and learn wisdom by hurting themselves.
<Frederick Engels, “Letters: Marx-Engels Correspondence 1886”, Engels to Friedrich Adolph Sorge In Hobokenhttps://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1886/letters/86_11_29.htm
<Complete abstention from political action is impossible. The abstentionist press participates in politics every day. It is only a question of how one does it, and of what politics one engages in. For the rest, to us abstention is impossible. The working-class party functions as a political party in most countries by now, and it is not for us to ruin it by preaching abstention. Living experience, the political oppression of the existing governments compels the workers to occupy themselves with politics whether they like it or not, be it for political or for social goals. To preach abstention to them is to throw them into the embrace of bourgeois politics. The morning after the Paris Commune, which has made proletarian political action an order of the day, abstention is entirely out of the question.
<We want the abolition of classes. What is the means of achieving it? The only means is political domination of the proletariat. For all this, now that it is acknowledged by one and all, we are told not to meddle with politics. The abstentionists say they are revolutionaries, even revolutionaries par excellence. Yet revolution is a supreme political act and those who want revolution must also want the means of achieving it, that is, political action, which prepares the ground for revolution and provides the workers with the revolutionary training without which they are sure to become the dupes of the Favres and Pyats the morning after the battle. However, our politics must be working-class politics. The workers' party must never be the tagtail of any bourgeois party; it must be independent and have its goal and its own policy.
<The political freedoms, the right of assembly and association, and the freedom of the press — those are our weapons. Are we to sit back and abstain while somebody tries to rob us of them? It is said that a political act on our part implies that we accept the exiting state of affairs. On the contrary, so long as this state of affairs offers us the means of protesting against it, our use of these means does not signify that we recognise the prevailing order.
<Karl Marx and Frederick Engels, "Apropos Of Working-Class Political Action".https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1871/09/21.htm Probably not. Sucdems will just take the power and then fumble it like they always do and MLs there are too cucked to ever sit up. Never trust an Amerikkkan.
historical necessity demands DSA will rebuild the twin towers and bring us the people's world trade center
>>2874459>This will more likely than not lead to remaining popular institution to take advantage: Ths military. I agree with most of what you're saying but I don't see any popular general raising to power or the general chief of staff taking over. The military could come to power in a collapse situation. But theyll likely splinter in that situation. You would have a bunch of bases becoming bandit camps or little military firfdoms worst case. A bunch of them would dissolve back into civilan life or serve a state directly. I think we would see some PMCs rolling up on congress and installing Jeff bezos or Elon Musk before we see the military take over. The bourgeois have been looting U.S institution to fund private parallel institutions for decades.
>>2874032I'm feeling good about the future of socialism in America. The ruling class has been on its backfoot managing the public perception since 08. The could try and Co-op the DSA but without serious concession and even then they would only be delaying the inevitable.
>>2874032They are already major players but they'll never be a third option, just a faction within the Democrats. The same genocidal party with more treats and social services to the people at home.
They seem to be taking to same playbook as the tea party, trump and obama. The thing about the DSA is they have an agenda which could change things, while moderate democrats have nothing but "you cant do that". Its the same as trump saying we need to build a wall, yeah its bullshit but its something, and its something that made people hype because it spoke directly to the rights frustration about immigration.
Im sure they will go on to win more seats, but the big question is will they ever be able to conjure up someone with charisma to run for president
>>2874032If they can push through reforms with a popular mandate I could see it, at the very least on a regional level
>>2874512 By major players i mean people who will make actual change (long term or impactful) not just things like rent freezes (though good the bourgeois economy reacts poorly to such things)
>>2874663 The problem is their ideas of doing good for the working class also acts as a last line of defense for the ruling class by stabilizing the status quo which only weakens any revolutionary movement
>>2874341 idk where you're from but here the proletariat is retarded
>>2874670I wonder if a significant chunk of the current ruling class not understanding this and treating the DSA like the next RSDLP will end up backfiring on them. Although Rubio might be just hyping them up to create a causus belli for invading Cuba as opposed to being so out of touch and historically illiterate that he genuinely thinks the DSA is like really about that life.
>>2874676 could be but i doubt they'd invade cuba after their 'capitulation'
>>2874663these uyghas are ugly and fat and will never accomplish anything HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>>2874676the ruling class clearly think they are on the brink of once and for all solving the classic problem of the exploited masses rising up to guillotine them with an AI-empowered surveillance state.
>>2874724
You will never be with a woman
>>2874032They need to get unions on their side, that is the only material base for socdem parties otherwise it's just Utopianism and theyd have no coercive threat against the bourgeois parties. Whatever party the unions back is the true social democratic party, not whatever they actually proclaim as doctrine.
>>2874786>They need to get unions on their sideUnions need to get a revival
>>2874789so they can betray socialism in 1914 again like they did with subverting the SPD and wanting staatsozialismus?
>>2874786>unions>americalmao, what power do unions have In the usa?
anyway getting in demsocs (is the dsa really demsoc? Isn't it more like socdems?) Would be preferable, sure. But after a few years it will just fall apart because they don't have any meaningful solutions to societal existence in a world that cannot sustain it's current level of luxury. Any representative democracy is dead in the water and will bring nothing more but hardships down the (short) line.
besides, the moment they will have a gram of executive power almost all of the americans will turn against them because everyone is just a wannabe petty bourgeois asshole dreaming of becoming a landlord.
>>2874032>Do you guy think the democratic socialists will become major players in future us politics?No. if they ever get actually effective at anything, they will be labeled communists and blacklisted.
<how much authority does the DNC have over its elected members?
>The short answer is: very little direct authority.Unlike political parties in some parliamentary systems where the central party leadership can force members to vote a certain way or easily strip them of their party affiliation, the American political system gives the Democratic National Committee (DNC) almost no formal control over how elected officials govern, vote, or act. The DNC is primarily an organizational, fundraising, and campaign strategy body—not a public policy or legislative governing unit.
Parties in America are basically just make believe. The only power they have is they hand out money to members, but you still have to fundraise yourself too obviously, and populist(read actually popular) candidates can easily fundraise all they need from small donors. The real advantage to doing defeating the Democrats in the primary is that then you don't have to face them in the general or certainly not as a Democrat. You force the mainstream Ds to run as the third party spoiler like Cuomo.
The main thing is to try and keep this momentum going. If one of these candidates gets popular enough that they can keep hold of their seat just on their own name brand, they can leave the Ds and declare themselves independent or members of a new party but it doesn't have any particular advantage at this point in time.
>>2874848the other side of this to consider is that the political parties are private organizations, meaning there is little actual legal structure to how they must run their affairs aside from the rules they make for themselves (which aren't laws). the internal rules used to arrange their candidate selection are taken for granted as part of the nation's electoral system but in a legal sense there is nothing keeping them sacred, they can arbitrarily set new rules or even rig things and the only thing they risk is PR problems and losing legitimacy. Those are not lines that we should assume the establishment will never cross. They can't enforce much on sitting politicians in terms of how they vote but there is a potential for rigging on a whole new level as the stakes for control get higher. with widespread complicity from the media.
No, the DSA is too timid to make big moves and whenever the opportunity presents itself for the DSA to actually threaten the Democratic party leadership through a primary, they inevitably will find an excuse to not run it.
>>2874333>>2874451>Why should she run compared to going to the senate?this is ultimately where the demsock dream dies. AOC won't run because she's tepidly polling against jd vance and she will look at those numbers, realize the outcome is a coin flip and finally decide that it's a Bad Career Move, instead she will run for senate where she thinks she still has a solid chance and do nothing. You can't be principled AND a successful politician, these are at odds.
>>2874901> In states like Texas, Illinois, and Ohio, state election laws strip political parties of the power to enforce "ideological purity tests" to block candidates from the primary ballot. Furthermore, once a candidate wins a state-run primary election, state law legally guarantees them a spot on the general election ballot under that party's banner—leaving party leadership completely powerless to remove themhttps://www.texastribune.org/2025/10/10/texas-republican-party-censures-primary-ballot-court-precedent/>In states like Texas, courts have consistently ruled that if a candidate fulfills the objective statutory requirements (such as paying the filing fee and turning in the correct number of signatures), the party chair must place them on the ballot>Even if the state party formally censures a candidate or declares that they do not represent the party's values, Texas court precedents (texastribune.org) dictate that the party cannot block them from runninghttps://www.courthousenews.com/ninth-circuit-asked-if-political-parties-can-control-who-runs-for-office/https://www.npr.org/2018/02/08/583993705/a-white-supremacist-may-be-the-only-republican-running-for-a-seat-in-congress<The Arthur Jones Case (Illinois): In 2018, an outspoken Holocaust denier ran in the Republican primary for an Illinois congressional seat. Because the district was heavily Democratic, no mainstream Republicans filed to run. Jones met the state's baseline signature requirements, so the Illinois GOP was legally forced to put him on the primary ballot. Because he was uncontested, he won. The state party despised him and publicly campaigned against him, but under Illinois state law, they were powerless to strip the "Republican" label from his name on the November general election ballo >>2874800>where do Neocons come from?Athens and Jerusalem
>>2874983>In states like Texas, Illinois, and Ohio, state election laws strip political parties of the power to enforce "ideological purity tests" to block candidates from the primary ballot. A plot twist here is that the Communist Party cannot appear on the ballot in Texas (state constitutional amendment from the McCarthy era), but running as a Democrat or Republican is okay!
>>2874032No, if they couldn't capture the moment with Bernie they won't do it now. And even if they gain some marginal popularity off of Trump's unpopularity, in a couple years MAGA will evolve into an ecofash party and electorally sweep and we'll be right back here again
>>2875118Bernie wasn't left-Trump. Bernie surrendered which made Bernie's entire coalition scatter across the spectrum. If there is an actual fighter who is prepared to get down with the DNC establishment there can be some longevity here
>>2874983So DSA should start doing entryism to the GOP instead of the DNC?
>>2875193I'd love that if all the centrist Dems went over to the GOP and turned them more sane/lib and then the chud wing and the Christian nationalists end up politically homeless.
>>2874800A right-wing split the supported the invasion of Socialist Vietnam?
>>2875195Yes. The DSA founders supported the Vietnam War at first.
Comrades,
The revolutionary conjuncture in the imperialist heartland has matured to a qualitatively new stage. The leftist currents that crystallized within the Occupy movement were the dialectical expression of the masses' deepening rejection of U.S. monopoly capital and its decaying political power. From those militant germ-cells, anarchist and Maoist cadres guided by the Juche principle of independence and the Marxist-Leninist science of revolutionary strategy, initiated a protracted campaign of insertion into the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA). This was a scientifically grounded application of the mass line to a specific organizational terrain, informed by the concrete analysis of concrete conditions.
These cadres operated through informal, decentralized affinity networks, many having split from the revisionist degeneration of the CPUSA, others emerging from autonomous anarchist collectives and horizontalist organizing traditions. They recognized that the DSA, though legally recognized and formally active, was ideologically heterogeneous, organizationally porous, and politically vulnerable a terrain ripe for patient, persistent revolutionary work. Through targeted agitation, psychological offensives, and sustained internal factional struggle, they systematically exposed and marginalized the liberal opportunist and social-imperialist elements within leftist social movements, including the DSA, reorienting its platform toward genuine anti-imperialism and consistent class struggle. By the early 2020s, this patient revolutionary pressure of the distributed vanguard bore tangible fruit, the DSA openly declared support for the DPRK, endorsed Korean reunification, and stood in principled solidarity with both urban anti-police rioters, and third World national liberation struggles. The U.S. right-wing, lulled into complacency by the DSA's reformist reputation, was caught entirely off guard, a classic strategic miscalculation born of their own ideological blindness.
However, let us be clear, the objective was never to simply "capture" the DSA as an end in itself, nor was it to boost their party. The strategic intent was far more dialectical and far more audacious. The entryist operation was designed to provoke a full-scale reactionary response against what the imperialist media would frame as a "communist infiltration" of a mainstream electoral organization. By pushing the DSA into open, uncompromising anti-imperialist positions, we forced the Democratic Party and its intelligence-media apparatus into a predictable overreaction, thereby revealing their true nature as the domestic counterinsurgency arm of monopoly capital, a function they have historically performed with ruthless efficiency.
This reaction serves a dual revolutionary purpose. First, it exposes the two-party system for what it fundamentally is, a carefully managed opposition structure, a bourgeois democratic fraud designed to contain, channel, and ultimately defuse working-class consciousness within acceptable parameters of capitalist rule. Second, it creates the objective conditions for a rupture, a crisis of hegemony that opens space for the emergence of a genuinely revolutionary alternative. The ensuing political crisis liberal hysteria, intensified red-baiting, internal DSA and CPUSA fractures, will not destroy the left; it will temper it through the fire of struggle. Out of this cauldron, a genuine, principled communist formation will be forged. This will occur through direct confrontation with the enemy on the terrain of class struggle. As the Juche idea teaches and the Marxist-Leninist science confirms, the revolutionary party is not declared, it is born in struggle, tempered in adversity, forged in the unity of theory and practice, and consolidated through the active, conscious participation of the masses.
The liberal establishment is indeed panicking. They are combing through their intelligence files on the DSA, intensifying propaganda operations, and scrambling to salvage their crumbling containment system. This panic is irrefutable proof that our provocation is working, that the contradictions we have deliberately sharpened are reaching their breaking point. They sense, correctly, that their entire apparatus of NGO based political control is being dismantled from within, that the managed democracy they have so carefully constructed is being hollowed out by the very forces they sought to contain. The reaction we have deliberately provoked is the catalyst needed to approach a new revolutionary formation, a formation that will emerge not despite the repression, but because of it.
Many rank-and-file participants of the DSA and DNC may not yet grasp the full strategic picture. That is to be expected; the masses learn through struggle, through experience, through the concrete unfolding of events. But for those of us who carry the Juche torch, who understand the dialectical method of Marx and the science of MLM, who value the horizontal solidarity of the anarchist tradition and the disciplined organization of the Leninist vanguard, for us, the path is clear, continue to sharpen the contradictions, welcome the reaction as the forge of revolution, and prepare to organize the new vanguard on the ruins of the old imperialist order.
Independence, self-reliance, and unwavering anti-imperialist struggle are our living method, our scientific practice, our revolutionary DNA That is the only way forward.
Long live the revolutionary spirit of the masses! Long live the victory of Juche thought!
Unique IPs: 40