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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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File: 1785065946764-2.jpg (53.11 KB, 850x600, 1765756202665.jpg)

 

I wrote this as a proposal for both capitalism and socialism so excuse me talking about taxes in the example;

I consider myself a big supporter of direct democracy, however there is a problem that people point out that everyone can't be educated on all issues and someone has to write the laws as a full time job. I usually advocate a system of delegates to do this somewhat similar to 'liquid democracy', but I just had the thought that we could use sortition as the highest body.

Every year, or two, or something like that, we would select people via sortition to sit in parliament (or whatever you want to call it). They would have the job of setting the votes for the public to decide on. This would not be in the subject of full laws initially but in the sense of simple questions like "do we want to impose a tax increase of 1% on corporate profits to go towards education". Then the public will vote, let's say they say yes, then the sortees will draw up a law to that effect with the help of public servants/legal experts to give them guidance on how to actually do this and any potential problems with implementation. Then once that law is drafted, it will be passed and put into effect - however there is a time period of say a month where the public can object to the final wording of the law, if some number of the public vote that they don't believe the final wording matches the original intent, they can ask for a review of the law (let's say 5% of the citizens for sake of argument). Then there will be a public consultation process where the law is discussed with the public, and hopefully changes are made, then the new law will be voted on by the public who can accept or reject the final version.

Since this process is a pain, hopefully simple laws like "we will build a new sewer pipeline" will not have to go through this process unless there's some glaring issue with them and public debate will focus on genuinely contentious issues.

Anyway, I think this could be a good method to allow true democracy while also respecting the fact that average people don't have time for legal minutiae.

The biggest problem I can see is that the sortees will be reliant on the public servants/legal experts to interpret things for them to some extent and if those people tried to actively insert a bias into the process it could lead to issues. I think that this could be partly solved by ensuring these people represent a range of political views and are supervised by an anti corruption force to make sure they aren't trying to rig the process.

What does everyone think? The benefit over regular sortition for me is that the public still get to decide, if one year we get an absolutely terrible set of sortees through random chance, the public can just vote against all of the laws they try to interpret and wait for next year.

>thoughts on liberalism
No a fan

>>2877461
So how do you think the government should operate? Or are you an anarchist? Even in anarchy you still have to have some kind of organisation of society.

Can a democracy vote itself out of being a democracy?

>>2877466
Yes, I suppose there's no reason why they shouldn't be able to. Though I would argue that would be a big constitutional change and require a higher majority like 2/3rds or something.

File: 1785071249577-2.jpg (18.72 KB, 304x203, 20080218-cr osu.jpg)

An issue is confusing suffrage and democracy. If the right to vote does not lead to the "rule of the people", then universal suffrage can persist, even by an absence of democracy. This is also part of Marx's naivety (1852):
<The carrying of Universal Suffrage in England would, therefore, be a far more socialistic measure than anything which has been honored with that name on the Continent. Its inevitable result, here, is the political supremacy of the working class.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1852/08/25.htm
Around a century of universal suffrage in the UK has not brought any supremacy of the working class, and so the capacity of voting is not a measure of either "freedom" or "democracy", and in fact, the opposite has occured. The political cartel of "representatives" has expanded to over 21,000 members in the UK, who are incompetent or malicious in their task of improving the lives of others. This has a simple explanation however, that the demand for politicians raises supply, and this is best achieved by the failure to complete tasks, like how our construction workers are incredibly ineffecient since it extends their salaries. We see a similar crisis of overemployment in such services as the Police Force, which has been duely commented on since at least 1994 (e.g. Francis), in how "anarcho-tyranny" is a perpetuation crime as a means to increase the police sector. The "War on Drugs" is a good example, while in the UK, there is a war against words. The manufacture of problems in order to sell solutions is then a large industry, and this infects all politicians.

The confusion of present systems of government are shown. In France, Germany, the UK and US, you have bicameral legislatures, which have majority/minority parties, as well as general representatives for the lower and upper houses of parliament, such as Presidents, Vice-Presidents, Speakers, and so on. This is in tandem with Executiveship, which in both France and the US, are given by general elections, apart from local elections. It is almost purposefully convoluted and wasteful, and the movement toward unicameral governments should be embraced. In the US, calls to abolish the Senate, and in the UK, calls to abolish the House of Lords, have popular demand from people. The "separation of powers" does not seem to preserve virtue. In the UK, abolishing the House of Lords, Supreme Court and Monarchy would be beneficial, and so only the lower house would persist.

We at least agree that "representation" is not actually "representative", but what is improved in the system of random sortition? The purpose of a direct democracy (afaik) is to simply vote on policies, not politicians, and so "better" representatives are irrelevant to the ends of popular government, which is also evidently a one-party state. Accountability must exist, but being "voted out" is a lenient way of describing treason. I think that any and all political corruption must be met by execution for the sake of such transgression against the general Will. The grounds of all revolution is the real crime of treason, for when the state is in contradiction with the national body, this is class warfare, and the pretext to overthrow it. I think the transition from a parliamentary model toward the "administration of things" is useful, and the idea of direct democracy relates to this, but I don't think "better" representatives are needed, but only the right to revolt, since if the purpose of a statesman hereafter becomes the person who simply completes tasks, rather than as a voice which excuses itself from tasks, we can move on.

>>2877463
Dictatorship of the proletariat

>>2877473
Which looks like what exactly.

>>2877472
In my proposed system, the sortees would only be there to administer the direct democratic system basically. They decide on what forms laws and votes take but don't have the final say.

>>2877475
>They decide on what forms laws and votes take but don't have the final say.
But wouldn't it be a job of professional lawyers to this?
An issue of statesmen isn't in their expertise, but only of trust. Nobody in the world trusts their politicians today. So, if we are to have overseers, it has to be somebody trustworthy, which requires fatal penalties for failure, as well as competence to complete tasks. What exactly is this sortition lottery? Is it like jury duty?

>>2877475
>>2877481
Just to clarify, I think that a system of random sortition "works" in a representative democracy, but I don't think it works in a direct democracy.


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