South Korea has double the population of North Korea, but South Korea only has half as many babies as North Korea. Which economic feature of capitalism causes this?
feminism
Opportunity cost of having children rises the more economic productivity rises.
E.g what you have to give up to raise a child gets more expensive even if childcare is subsided. 1 hour of time in America is worth more than 1 hour of time in the DPRK, since there are more ways to spend it.
This holds regardless of mode of production. North Korea's fertility rate is high relative to (richer) south Korea, but low relative to the DPRKs (low) GDP.
>>2882707the fact that north korea is a shithole? and south korea is much wealthier.
birth rates collapse as development increases.
there are no exceptions to this aside from israel.
>>2882713>the country where incels elected a far right coup-attempting president is feministLol lmao
Up next: you post the stupid 4chan image claiming the far right "daughter of military dictator Park Chung-Hee", Park Gyun-Hye was controlled by a "feminist cult" and not by the daughter of a (male) cult leader. Or fearmonger about Megalia as though that's not pretending moonrune lolcow.farm runs the world.
And of course: the PRC, Hong Kong and Singapore are radfem paradises, hence their low TFR.
>>2882730>the country where incels elected a far right coup-attempting president is feministthat's like libs saying there are no nazis in ukraine because zelensky is a jew
>the PRC, Hong Kong and Singapore are radfem paradisesthey literally are
>>2882730Korean culture is fundamentally feminist despite the government.
Similar to how American culture is fundamentally liberal despite Donald Trump.
there's a difference between socialist and liberal feminism but who really cares this is 4chud lite
>having less than 8 billion humans on earth is "extinction"
pro-natalists are hysterical ideologues
>>2882745
it's a good thing when capitalist society dies out
>>2882724Israel have third world enclaves to get slave labor from.
>>2882751China is also dying out same with cuba
>>2882745
still zero proof the birthrates are just going to exponentially collapse and not just eventually go back up to 1 to 1 equilibrium,people like you back in the 60's must have thought we would have 15 billion humans by now if the baby boom never stopped growing
>>2882768Yeah eventually we'll realise survival is too important and feminism will be seen as a genocidal ideology and become a taboo.
>>2882768Well so far thats not happened anywhere for any longterm amount of time.
>>2882713Education, wealth disparity, and stress.
People don’t like having kids in what they see as a hostile environment. Who’d guess? Everyone who’s been paying attention to global conditions for the past several years. People are smarter now overall despite claims to the contrary, and have a better idea of what they need and deserve for themselves and their families.
>>2882715Sir this is leftypol, please don't bring economics into it.
>>2882713Pure scapegoating. Both japan and south Korea have been led by conservatives for years and still struggle with low birthrate. The main issue is that people are simply too overworked and don't have good living conditions. People are less likely going to get a baby if their financial situation doesn't allow that.
>>2882743>>Juche-feminismit is true that feminism is the west is a soviet honeypot but what the hell is supposed to juche-feminism be?
><traditionalit's a confucian-style feudal country, it's not dated not traditional
><tastefuldated not tasetful
><family orientedonly one family matters, the kims
><respectfulonly in respect to current great leader
>>2882750i vividly remember soshi getting the same looks in south korea while they were performing at an actor gayo in mid 00s, it's just fucking papers pushers feeling too good for anything because they're glorified eunuchs of a confucian court
>>2882801>Both japan and south Korea have been led by conservatives for years and still struggle with low birthrate.both are post industrial economies which don't need a sprawling workforce, both are already severely overpopulated - why make a second india out of themselves?
>>2882796Women in Afghanistan had half a dozen kids each while America was occupying it, how much more hostile can an environment get? Try to live in the real world and not the world you wish for.
>>2882801>Both japan and south Korea have been led by conservatives for years and still struggle with low birthrate.>Having a cuckservative gov in charge means every woman in the country suddenly turns into a tradwifeAre you serious?
>>2882803T. Capitalist Feminist K-Pop stan
You will be first in line for the gulag.
>>2882809This.
Birth rates are like 60% societal and cultural 40% economic
Needs BWC correction
>>2882809>>2882816>Women in Afghanistan had half a dozen kids each while America was occupying itSomeone didn’t factor in education and different cultural values. I can tell.
>>2882815capitalist, egalitarian, hallyu admirer
>>2882819Geg can the mods change armchair to cuckchair? I will keep using the flag because nothing ever happens either way
>>2882826Cool argument bro
>>2882832Almost as cool as yours, sis.
>>2882825But thats exactly what i said?
>>2882837>>>2882837>But thats exactly what i said?<Women in Afghanistan had half a dozen kids each while America was occupying it, how much more hostile can an environment getYou did not account for education at all. So no, it’s not exactly what you said.
>>2882839Thought that was included since we're talking about feminism.
>>2882845No, that’s separate
>>2882847>>2882847Are they? womens education and participation in the workforce are pretty fundamental parts of feminism on top of them having full legal equality with men.
Everyone here who didn't say opportunity cost should be banned.
>>2882857>Are they?Yes
>womens education and participation in the workforce are pretty fundamental parts of feminism on top of them having full legal equality with men.No. Liberal ideological groups are generally inconsistent and vague. Feminism is vibe coded more than anything else.
Oh no low birthrates the horror.
Every year there's more housing per person, less traffic, less water/food/minerals scarcity. Less CO2 emissions.
Truly horrific. Capitalist sisters we must raise the birthrates because line must go up.
>>2882918>Oh no low birthrates the horrorIt’s a two way street. The low birth rate is also a sign of a suffering proletariat with little control over their lives.
>there's more housing per personThat no one can afford
>less trafficPartly because vehicles are more expensive
>less water/food/minerals scarcityNot under capitalism
>>2882922The proletariat has on the whole never suffered less and never had more control over their lives. Look at a list of countries by TFR, or indeed inside most countries by income distribution*, and you will immediately see that
poverty means more children and wealth means less.
*Income is more interesting because - in line with opportunity costs - you can sometimes see birthrates drop for the middle income but then go up a little for the very wealthy, for whom paying someone else to raise their kids - and therefore not encountering too severe an opportunity cost - is an option. But TFR between countries makes the broad point. You'd have to be insane to believe Chad (lol) has the most well-off proletariat and that this is why it averages 8.4 kids per woman.
>>2882814My point still stands. People are less likely to make babies if living becomes unaffordable.
>>2882806But our society is dependent on population growth since the young work so that old people can have their retirement. The retirement itself is a reward to work towards for the working class.
>>2882715>muh gdpkill yourself
>>2882924>The proletariat has on the whole never suffered less In some ways.
>and never had more control over their livesIt is very much less here.
>and you will immediately see that povertyTakes different forms as a country progressives through the capitalist mode of production. The poverty of countries further along this mode of production takes a different character than the poverty of countries that have not progressed particularly far.
>>2882929Not an argument.
>>2882927>But our society is dependent on population growth since the young work so that old people can have their retirement.when the retirememt fund financing system is in need of change it will be changed. there is no need to stick to current neo-liberal orthodoxy.
>>2882940It is true that the proletariat has never been better off than today even in the countries most horrifically exploited by imperialism. The problem is they are exploited proportionately to the productive forces more than ever as well (especially those in super-exploited colonised countries).
> Climate is fucked beyond what our bodies can handle
> screens
> everyone is spoiled dependent cattle in constant angst
> having a baby is brutal so can't really blame women for not wanting that
> men fucking suck
< dprk win follow the same road later on
Can we just admit kids suck?
>>2882771We're going to genocide all conservatives and fascists, prepare yourself
>>2883197Yes they do, they’re annoying, they suck all the air out of the room, they’re needy, they spread disease, are consistently dirty, and learn most lessons the hard way. None of this is their fault either but it’s true, I don’t have the patience for them and neither do most proles under capitalism.
>>2883199>Yes they doNo
>they’re annoying, they suck all the air out of the room, they’re needy, they spread disease, are consistently dirty, and learn most lessons the hard wayGeneralization with a boomerisn at the end
>I don’t have the patience for them and neither do most proles under capitalism.That is because capitalism has robbed you of your patience, yet you show contentment.
There always comes a poster who says that the main point is the availability of inticonceptives
>>2883208>>2883209why do breeders get so upset when someone doesn't like kids? no, i don't want to hold your baby, no it's not cute, thank you, bye
>>2883326They see it as a personal attack on themselves since they've made their kids their entire personality and goal of life.
>>2883326>why do breedersDo regular people even know this term? I only knew a mentally ill DSA type college girl who used to scoff at the single mom in class for being a disgusting breeder and selfishly adding problems to the climate and being a stooge to the capitalist for breeding
>>2882924In terms of the immense accumulation of commodities, sure. Not in terms of the dehumanizing effects of capitalism though.
>>2883326>>2883340I just think you’re being weird. I’m not this “breeder” you speak of. I don’t even think a higher population would even be good right now until climate change is sorted out. But yeah, it’s a borderline reactionary way of thinking and I think it’s kinda fucked.
Be honest, anon. If you had to choose between never having kids but getting to be a high-flying revolutionary on a level with Lenin, or having kids but having to be a normal guy, you would not choose kids.
Having established in principle that even if you like kids, there are other things you would like more, I hope you can then see why a combination of having kids being slightly annoying and inconvenient, while many other things are convenient and easy and enjoyable and interesting, leads to cratering birthrates. Even the people who have kids prefer to outsource a chunk of raising them to the state and another chunk to TV/Forums/Tiktok (delete as appropriate by decade) so they can do something else that is more appealing.
>>2883420Stop being reactionary about children. No one cares if you have them or not.
>>2883420>but getting to be a high-flying revolutionary on a level with LeninIt's a task we must pursue anon, but dont expect enjoyment.
>>2883364>I don’t even think a higher population would even be good right now until climate change is sorted outHow is an aging population and larger part of the working age population dedicated to caring for the old and infirm going to contribute to the conversion of the world economy into a green sustainable one?
>>2883437they will go out in the sun and die of heatstroke don't worry (also there won't be that many people who take those jobs in the first place and wages aren't gonna grow,so 1 guy will need to take care of 20 elders by himself for minimum wage)
>>2883437>How is an aging population and larger part of the working age population dedicated to caring for the old and infirm going to contribute to the conversion of the world economy into a green sustainable one?The world economy is going to collapse, so that’s not a question I would be worried about.
You have to realize most olds want to die in their giant homes surrounded by their possessions like Pharos of old, it won’t be your responsibility as a young beyond clearing their hoard out and demolishing the house
>>2882738Westerners who Orientalize asia, or live in such a shithole country with no basic public services, that basic needs being met for women seems like feminism. women in north and south korea live in chains in the work place, family and political life.
>>2889118East Asian women are the prettiest though. Japanese, Korean and Chinese women are top tier
>>2889122if you love women you should hate feminism
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