So why is it that all "historically progressive" forces in History all turnout to be white European colonizers who raped and enslaved Black and Indigenous folx?
Is Marxism just a long winded apologia to justify colonialism and oppression?
Pretty much yeah
I mean what happened to the indeands? Whats the progress in getting genocided?
it's progressive because it gets rid of tribal communal property and sets up property relations which can abolish all property relations 🙄
Because white Europeans were the first to develop Capitalist social relations and create a world economy.
Why do people insist on using the phrase "historically progressive" as a moral judgement if it is just a description of the objective laws of history?
You really need to get rid of your ressentiment so that you can look at the world objectively.
Most of Europe was a shithole before Rome civilized them. Europeans use the Roman (Pheonician) alphabet. They never even developed their own alphabet. But you don't see them being resentful and feeling inferior that they were basically snowmonkeys before Roman colonization.
So Europeans never developed this ressentiment and simply took the best parts of Rome and improved upon it. The Japanese and Chinese do the same.
And btw your own ancestors were just as violent and barbaric towards each other as the Western invaders. Not saying that their genocide was justified, but it would help to get rid of the victim mentality, which is the source of ressentinment.
Im gonna say this.
If we manage to get luxary automated space communism whatever, then it was indeed a progressive march of history
If we dont and instead get the complete collapse of the ecosystem, the industrial system, and etc. Then maybe it wasnt progressive.
>>2888851>obvious crop fields and managed hedgerowsyou're pointing at civilisation, you stupid child!
Progressivity does not exist because history is cyclical.
>>2888855that just means the entire talk about "muh progressiveness of history" is just post-hoc justification of everything that happen in the past.
but at least it's not alt-his speculation I will give it that
>>2888752Before there were European colonies, Whites were the most enslaved ethnicity in the world. Slavery is the more progressive mode of production than clan society, and the Mesoamerican civilizations were already proper slave states before the Spanish arrived.
When the age of colonialism was established, slavery in a sense was already outmoded by the Encomienda laid roots for its own abolition. When the American Civil War started, slavery was already a massive anomaly (which can be seen in the fact that the CSA got absolutely zero international recognition).
>>2888753I mean, Marx and Engels were 19th century thinkers, so they possessed remnants of Eurocentrism, but they were incredible universal for their time. They had a genuine interest in abolishing slavery which didn't save them from having some really bad stances on things like British colonialism in India - which could be attributed to the lack of knowledge about Asia available to them.
>>2888879Bullshit, what Marxist views the restauration of the monarchy in Britain, the Bourbon Restauration in France as progressive?
>>2888787>Most of Europe was a shithole before Rome civilized them.What? Rome was the ultimate shithole it was genocidal slave state where 99% of the populace lived in near total destitution.
People outside of the roman empire were taller lived longer healthier lives with less nutritional stress than people inside of it.
>They never even developed their own alphabet.The romans didnt either no one did aside from sumerians egyptians meso americans and china
I really dont get the chud idoliziation of pre-modern organized states when they were near universally worse places to live in for the average person than disorganized states because the state exists solely as an instrument of class rule and oppression.
>>2888887i hate the peasant mode of production i hate the peasant mode of production i hate the peasant mode of production i hate the peasant mode of production i hate the peasant mode of production i hate the peasant mode of production i hate the peasant mode of production i hate the peasant mode of production i hate the peasant mode of production i hate the peasant mode of production
>>2888874>just post-hoc justification of everything that happen in the past.No I didnt mean everything. What I meant with progressive march of history is that these specific events lead to the spread of capitalism, which in turn eventually could build the foundations for luxary automated space communism or whatever. In this case it would be progressive. (Not all events do this)
But……if the march of history just ends with the collapse of the climate, ecosystem, and etc. Then perhaps the whole progress idea is faulty in itself. Since if progress just leads to complete collapse….
>>2888752>So why is it that all "historically progressive" forces in History all turnout to be white European colonizers who raped and enslaved Black and Indigenous folx?all humans walked out of africa so all humans are african. all humans immigrated from one place to another, so nobody is indigenous. white people are not real, and the first historically progressive force was the invention of agriculture in the middle east, which resulted in class society and slavery. reminder "historically progressive" is not a compliment, just an acknowledgement of what caused rapid change in human society. the black plague was historically progressive. genghis khan was historically progressive.
>So why is it that all "historically progressive" forces in History all turnout to be white European colonizers who raped and enslaved Black and Indigenous folx?
Not true at all. Even if you take the classical Marxist view of colonialism as initially progressive, the Marxist method leads us to conclude that it inevitably generated an antagonist which was more progressive than colonialism itself, i.e. national liberation. If you want to summarize it, colonialism prepared non-European peoples to eventually rise up against it and join the capitalist world on their own terms, where they now actually have a chance at sovereignty and competition.
>>2889214>>2888854You read too much Russian nationalist fanfics of LOTR
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