/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

the soviet union was doomed to fail when that one nameless soldier deputy went to the place where the constitutional assembly was convening and told them to fuck off and that it is over

>>2888853
why?

>>2888853
People suck on stalin due to all the great accomplishment he did in developing the ussr but he also laid literally all of the groundwork for the stagnation and eventual decline and collapse of the ussr.

>>2888893
>also laid literally all of the groundwork for the stagnation and eventual decline and collapse of the ussr
he literally didnt though

>>2888898
He literally did.
He killed of every single actually competent marxist during the purges leaving only incompetent corrupt dullards, and scheming opportunists behind in charge of the ussr after death.
His obsession with heavy indistry and military spending at the expense of consumer goods also extremely hurt the ussr and succesive leadership never changed course from it.
He also killed any remnants of workers democracy in the ussr making the proleteriat utterly powerless to do anything once the leaders of the ussr decided to sell out the entire country to capitalism.

>>2888910
the real truke is he had to do all that stuff to survive WW2 so it was either stagnation and dissolution or fall victim to total genocide. 80 years is a better run than the paris commune so give them credit. 20th century AES is like the equivalent of a merchant republic in the medieval europe. It's a dry run for a future society.

>>2889041
It's a more or less intractable problem of taking actions which were entirely reasonable (perhaps unavoidable) in the circumstances but which in the long term contributed to the decline and defeat of Soviet socialism. I'd say that the story if the fall of the USSR is the story of such actions, beginning even with Lenin and the faction ban, proceeding through socialism in one country, the popular front, the dissolution of the comintern, peaceful coexistence, etc. Perestroika and Glasnost were just the final nails in a coffin that had been slowly built from day 1.

>>2889051
It would have been fine if they locked in (developed Juche)

>>2889071
That's not even a joke considering how US dominance started eroding under its own weight just 20 years after the USSR started coming apart. If they had hunkered down with their nukes and Brezhnevism they at least may have been able to survive into a more forgiving international climate. Then they could have started exploring various paths of reform.

>>2888893
>killed more communists and fascists than anyone in history
>destroyed both the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany
was uncle Joe the greatest liberal in world history?

>>2889041
This. It was impossible to achieve their aims (full abundance through planning) with their starting conditions. The fact that they managed to do so much with so little is impressive. Their errors started when Khruschev didn't fund OGAS and when the USSR globally stopped trying to improve through techniques alone, and had to import market mechanisms (Kosygin reforms).

>>2889041
>20th century AES is like the equivalent of a merchant republic in the medieval europe
been saying this, ppl can't historicize for shit I stg

>>2889150
Stalin is basically on the same tier as Washington,Bolivar, Robespierre and Louverture(highly flawed but ultimately a W revolutionary) but this fact will piss off plenty of libs and socialists alike if you mention it

>>2889206
Surely a better example would be the English Commonwealth or French First Republic no?

>>2889208
Bertrand Russel met Lenin and called him a reincarnation of Cromwell.

>>2888853
No, he was wrong. USSR at the time was improving living conditions in all regards, led working class of all countries towards progress, was collectivizing and nationalizing everything private, democraacy was flourisihing, and then butthurt Trotsky comes out and says that this is not socialism, akshually. What then is socialism, remain impoverished and on the military dictatorship rails, necessary for continuing warfare?

>>2889477
>>2889477
> What then is socialism, remain impoverished and on the military dictatorship rails, necessary for continuing warfare?
Socialism is when you wear the yarmulke and light menorah.

>>2889338
He was right

>>2889270
Now that I think about yes, utopian communes and anarchist territories might be closer to merchant republic tbh

>>2889338
>>2889482
I read an excerpt from that someone posted here and don't know enough about Cromwell to even make the comparison but tbh alot of Betrand's critique were just your stereotypical lib pearl clutching over political violence. They just dislike it when its upfront but are perfectly fine with social murder at home and imperialism abroad its just not violence when they do it its some special other thing thats like totally different and morally justified! the existence of a state can totally happen without any violence or coercion involved guys! That being said Betrand Russell still an S tier liberal, especially compared to his successors in the Liberal tradition. At the very least inciting the lower peasantry against the kulaks is something that actually happend irl.

Russell was a tepid dork, the fact two people seem to agree with his views on anything ITT is embarrassing