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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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File: 1787206037878-6.png (Spoiler Image,284.08 KB, 470x300, 1786633688507u.png)

 

Is nationalism inherently against leftist ideology? If so, what do i do if i don't want to share my country with (Nevermind), but i do want a system where the average person can afford stuff that people need and want?

Fuck off you spooked up fag

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>>2896193
hmmmmmmmmmm

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HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

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HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM


>>2896208
no need to post actual theory. OP doesn't mean nationalism the way Stalin means it. He just means he finds black people scary. That is why he attached that picture and said he doesn't want to share his country with (Nevermind)

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internationalism in marxism means respect for national sovereignty of countries that have already had proletarian revolutions. it does not however mean respect for racism and ethnonationalism, especially not in the name of maintaining imperialism.

>>2896209
yes I am aware OP is a chauvinist who needs to go to gulag. but maybe he'll learn something

>>2896209
First of all, i am not scared of black people, we don't have those in russia, the image is a meme.
Second, i appreciate the theory, you can go get raped by stray dogs idiot

>>2896213
maybe
sniff
maybe
but more likely he will learn nothing. good attempt.

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>>2896214
>, i am not scared of black people, we don't have those in russia

>>2896214
black caucasians and the russian bigfoot

>>2896216
>>2896217
Just go take a stroll in any russian city bruh, you'll see hordes of (Nevermind)'s and MAYBE one black person if you're lucky.
>but russia had black people!
Yeah, like any other country had a couple of those

>>2896214
Bro screams every time he closes his eyes

>>2896210
Nationalism (atleast in my understanding) does not get along with imperialism. Imperialism moves your people and their genes out of their respective nations and vice versa (welcome back)
As a nationalist i have no reason to support anything that puts authority above nation, which imperialism does.
btw I don't care what your psedo-fathers like marx said about me having to live amongst (Nevermind)'s in a country that doesn't belong to them.

>>2896224
Just noticed "psedo" instead of "pseudo". I lost.

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>>2896224
>genes

>>2896224
>goes to leftypol
>asks loaded question
>then claims to not really care about the answer

>>2896224
you have failed to distinguish between the "nationalism" of oppressed nations (the national liberation movement) and the "nationalism" of imperialist nations (the looting and plundering of the periphery by the core)

this is why "nationalism" is one of the most loaded words in politics. a person in the USA can say he is a "nationalist" by which he means his right to invade and destroy other nations, and a person in Burkina Faso can say he is a "nationalist" by which he means his right to resist invasion and destruction.

You see the same thing with "immigration". People will deliberately confuse the "anti-immigration" policies of a country to trying to prevent brain drain and imperialist infiltration with the policies of an imperialist country trying to prevent the people who mine the quartz that end up in the chips from living in the same place as the finished computers.

where'd he fucking go

>>2896230
I worded it poorly, my bad. I respect marx but he is a genetic denialist. His words aren't facts which leftists seem to belive and are only mere interpretation of reality (a good one at that but still) him saying that russia has no right to have an in-group preference based on nation is a load of bs in on itself.
>>2896234
Again, nationalism isn't "my people are better therefore every other nation should submit to mine, i think that every nation on earth has a right to be nationalist and free from other nations and gevernments, so i do not support imperial tendencies in rightoids, this is the opposite of nationalism for me.
>>2896236
Im watching sprunki animations on yt shorts so kinda busy. (Also janjans are leaky today so got banned)

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>>2896215
speaking of Hoovy, he's apparently quite well read. he also sounds very eloquent in Russian. it's just the language barrier that makes him sound stoopid
>>2896224
>he thinks nations are genes

>>2896253
Ofcourse im not denying nurture (which is nations = culture) but i cannot in my right mind say that there is no nature (nations = genes).
The average height, looks(phenotypes), intellectual ability and physical strength IS largely explained by genetic difference.
Although, cultural difference is also a big part of why i consider myself a nationalist. The newcomers in russia simply refuse to assimilate and quite often express their hatred for locals (which our president seems to support haha)

It is unless you are a 19th century peasant and you're trying to break out of clan-based and feudal society or your country is formally colonized. Today if one takes nationalism politically seriously it just means war. Hence why all the nationalists getting elected don't do anything actually nationalist.

>>2896255
Have to disagree. Our government currently sustains atleast three nations (one of those is considered a region in russia but i would say it's pretty autonomous) that don't give anything in return, so for an average russian taxpayer it's a complete waist.
All of this while these ethnogroups constantly shit on people who make their existence even feasable.
I want those countries and regions to become independant from my country, how is this imperialism and war?

>>2896257
I meant to say waste. Sorry for this.

Before anyone calls me a racist or something aling those lines, i have to say that i dont hate immigrants. Hating immigrants is like hating a hamster for running in a weel. These people want a better quality of life, which is understandable, and it's dumb to hate them for it.
I hate my government for letting them do so at my expense in the first place.

>>2896260
>I don't hate immigrants for wanting a better live
>I just have my government for allowing them a better life

>>2896264
Their better life comes with the discomfort of the locals, which i consider wrong. They come here and disperse already thin wages, refuse to assimilate and constantly terrorise loclals because it's okay in their culture to just attack people they don't like (basically any russian hahah)
Our law refuses to protect locals from them, our president is obidient to chechnya and admitted to liking the fact that islam is becoming more and more dominant in russia.
I shouldn't have to pay for people that i (and many other russians) didn't choose to be our neighbors

>>2896273
Capitalists regulate wages, not migrant labor power. They do integrate, but this is a two-sided process in which both sides take something from the other. They "terrorize" no more than the general member of your nation, it's that this is just over-reported because rightist owned media has interes in amplifying these messages to sell you political solutions to non-existent problems. Besides all of what you have issues with is that local/national bourgeoisie is struggling against a larger/comprador bourgeoisie. Really it's just hot air behind every word

>>2896301
Simply not the case.
Mass immigration does affect wages and prices negatively. Although i agree that our government and business owners are taking more than they should, but saying that immigration has no effect is false
>they do integrate
Who are you to claim that? I live here and the difference between locals and immigrants is obvious, they do live by their own standard and communities in which they are overrepresented (wouldn't call them ghettos more like muslim zones) quickly turn into shitholes with more crime and a lesser life quality.
>They "terrorize" no more than the general member of your nation, it's that this is just over-reported
They are factualy more represented in crime stats if you account for country of origin. Even when we don't account for the fact that most of them are let go free of charge because our government is overran by them and they prefer their own group of people even when it comes to justice.
>because rightist owned media has interes in amplifying these messages to sell you political solutions to non-existent problems.
Russian rightist media disagrees with me on almost every point. Matter of fact, if you explicitly share my opinion in russian media you are likely to go to jail. Our president adores immigrants and prefers other nations.
Our "right" would prefer a muslim from chechnya to a russian liberal let alone a homosexual (which i am)
I hate modern right the same way they hate me, their agenda is pro immigrant if you look closely

Plus the fact that russian rightists are the biggest genetic denialists on this planet

It is but the non-white ethnonationalists that larp as communists here say its not.

>>2896193
>thinly veiled /pol/ thread
Warsaw pact countries had strictest border controls on earth. Your premise is wrong. No socialist country has been open borders like modern liberal ones are now.

>>2896236
it's not thinly veiled, it's very open. and also see this:
<You see the same thing with "immigration". People will deliberately confuse the "anti-immigration" policies of a country to trying to prevent brain drain and imperialist infiltration with the policies of an imperialist country trying to prevent the people who mine the quartz that end up in the chips from living in the same place as the finished computers.
under imperialism the purpose of borders is to trap people in war zones, resource extraction zones, slavery zones.
>>2896242
>Again, nationalism isn't "my people are better therefore every other nation should submit to mine
it's not that FOR YOU but it very quickly becomes that for any nation which is still a class society. literally anything: resource looting, coups, sanctions, embargoes, bombings, kidnappings, assassinations, pre-emptive strikes, have been justified with "national interests" i.e. "nationalism." Just because rank and file nationalists think nationalism means "loving and defending your homeland" doesn't mean the ruling class cannot twist that or take advantage of it to justify any and all atrocities. And this goes for all nations.
>this is the opposite of nationalism for me.
FOR YOU

>>2896323
>Russian rightist media disagrees with me on almost every point. Matter of fact, if you explicitly share my opinion in russian media you are likely to go to jail. Our president adores immigrants and prefers other nations.
>Our "right" would prefer a muslim from chechnya to a russian liberal let alone a homosexual (which i am)
>I hate modern right the same way they hate me, their agenda is pro immigrant if you look closely
are you like a Navalny guy

>>2896193
>Is nationalism inherently against leftist ideology?
How do we can say if something is inherently against YOUR own logical system of judgement, while we'd already have problems in establishing what is leftism, what is leftist and what is not. It is an intuitive standart in political scenery, deriving from the French Revolutionary Parliament, where (as I suppose) Radical Republicans and Constitutional Monarchists sat aside left and right sides of the parliament.

Nationalism for me is usually hollow in content, as it seems extremely inaccurate to assume for some properties of a person, holding the national or genetical descent of them as the justification. We cannot even hold the claim that two individuals practicing similar cultural rites will have similar bevahioral patterns, beliefs, and so on.
We can also note, in many romantic tales of love, a person usually holds a particular other above other objects, to the extreme that other people became irrelevant.

In many religions, God is also an omnipotent companion. Through him one does find comfort, and through history, shed blood.
One of the prominent teachings of the God is that, the great human family is created equal in his eyes and can find it.

For the Russian Revolution experience, All-Union Communist Party intelligentsia was initially very opposed to nationalism, with perhaps stressing that there is people of counterrevolutionaries and the bourgeouis, and the others. This, in fact, was more sensible discrimination/categorization for the revolutionary whim. Someone who is sympathetic to the white movement would tell more about that person in relation with the revolution than whether he is Azerbaijani, Russian, Latvian or Georgian..
There is also an influx of American specialists to the Union, who without a doubt contributed big to the 5 year plan.

Of course, some cultural rites of some nationalities, let's say South American tribes, are reactionary in the sense it prohibits extensive development of the productive forces or a moment for change.
But regardless, you hating on the entire group of black people or whatever on the basis like "crime rates",which would be 100 in 100.000 people, while white people would be like 10 in 100k, is absurd. There is barely any difference between 99.900 and 99.990 innocent people per 100k people, and categorizing an entire people in a supposed homogenous group would not be any accurate at all. A funny thing to note is that like Polish minority had like 5k crime rate per 100k people as I know in the German Empire. Which of course shouldn't make the Polish people in general subhumans, based on that abstract standart.

https://youtu.be/e7W2UAc4jF8
Nevertheless, I wanna hug and squish the Kitkat chocolate guy in the vidrel, he can be a citizen :D

>>2896323
>Our "right" would prefer a muslim from chechnya to a russian liberal let alone a homosexual (which i am)

Probably more people will share a similar belief towards homosexuality than towards their idea of nationalism, which is usually about protecting the cultural rites of old, which for them, the people of the nation naturally, magrstically and rightfully developed ( rather than being subjected to the conditions of the nature/world in general ), your homosexuality may be "unpatriotic" to them.
What is a kinda funny thing is that amongst people of sexualities you are a minority, while people of nationalities you are a majority. And seemingly you desire sympathy for your minority position while showing none to the other minority position.
Hope you can find a semblance of tranquility in these stormy days though.

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>>2896629 (me)
>A funny thing to note is that like Polish minority had like 5k crime rate per 100k people as I know in the German Empire

Whoops, may be slightly exaggrated, but it is probably >1k per 100k
Picrel is the European crime statistics of 1884-1886 I did find. Notice how every region has way more people committing crime compared to our times.


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