We need to ban these in the West before they become a thing. If a venue doesn't serve alcohol or cannabis, then there is no legal reason for it to prohibit children.
https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2024/02/19/south-korea-s-no-kids-zones-reflect-a-society-where-people-have-given-up-on-trying-to-accommodate-each-other_6540962_4.html
>It is no coincidence that South Korean society has been suffering from a low birth rate, as it seems to find the mere presence of children exhausting. As proof, one need only consider the large number of establishments that refuse entry to the youngest customers. "At first, we had baby seats, but there were too many problems. The little ones would scream, throw food, and, or, refuse to eat it. Their behavior could be annoying to other patrons. But our prices are quite high, therefore customers are expecting superior service," said Iyo Iyo (not her real name), an employee of a rather chic sushi restaurant in the center of Seoul. Like hundreds of others, this establishment does not allow children. The words "no-kids zone" have even made their on way on the restaurant's menu.
>This trend has been growing in South Korea, where the Jeju Research Institute has identified 542 "no-kids zones." A user-generated map on Google lists 459. This phenomenon has become a cause for concern in a country experiencing a population decline, and where no-go zones have begun affecting increasingly large sections of the population. Min-ah Lee, a sociologist at Seoul's Chung-Ang University, has seen "a growing trend towards exclusion amongServing alcohol isn't - and shouldn't be - a reason to prohibit children from a space.
>>2897806This feels like a worsening feedback loop of the more spaces we have that do this the more difficult to have a child becomes.
Im really sick of this talking point that many progressive foids have where they called children gross and disgusting. Its so deeply indivdualistic and anti social
just a crazy speculation, but what if all this dehumanization of children as nothing but victims or problems to be dealt with is part of the reason there's so many sick pedophiles in the world now? if our entire culture operates on a mental framework where children aren't really people, then hey why not just fuck them?
>>2897808Okay Europoor. You know what I meant.
>>2897813The ruling class knows they are going to have to exterminate millions of brown children to maintain the empire this century.
This shit is real? I thought it was just stuff that childfree people, usually women it seems, hoped for. I mean I don't want kids or anything but something rubs me the wrong way with people wanting child free zones. Although I also kind of get it but truthfully I also don't like other adults all that much. I don't really like being around others that much but I think excluding children from more activities isn't really a good idea in general.
>>2897808>Serving alcohol isn't - and shouldn't be - a reason to prohibit children from a space.i remember a drunk woman stumbling into me at a theme park when I was 7 and burning me with a lit cigarette. Purely anecdotal. More general: Drunk adults are disinhibited and kind of dangerous around children. They say and do things they would otherwise not do. Drunk people are also often trying to get laid and so need to be in an environment where all the people they walk up to and flirt with are fully adults. It also makes it easier for the people serving alcohol if everyone's age is checked at the door and they don't have to check each person.
>>2897810>Im really sick of this talking point that many progressive foids have where they called children gross and disgusting. Its so deeply indivdualistic and anti socialI'm also not a fan of that attitude. It is individualistic and anti social. On the one hand I would rather those people not have children, since they clearly don't want them, and might neglect them, on the other hand we need to make a less anti social environment so that people who don't want children can be supportive of those who do, since "it takes a village to raise a kid". The idea that the parents do it all by themselves with no society to help them is also deeply individualistic and anti social. If we want to leave the world better than we found it, raising the next generation together is a big deal. On the labor front, there is a case to be made that having fewer children puts upward pressure on wages by depriving the bourgeoisie of a reserve army of labor.
>>2898161This default means banning young people from music venues. One of not that many things that young people can still go out and do with little money.
There aren’t enough children in Korea to even justify this
I fully support no kid zones, but I would also support no adult zones too.
>>2898175well that's not really true at all. you can just have music venues that don't serve alcohol; music can be fun without chugging addictive carcinogens that damage your brain.
also psychedelics should be legalized and regulated since they actually help people overcome alcohol addiction and are way better at a music festival than something that makes you stumble around and act like an asshole
This is one of those cases where liberals discover that capitalism can atomize social life and then act surprised when people stop accommodating one another. I don't think “ban no-kids zones” is the right analysis. A restaurant is allowed to decide what kind of clientele it wants. But the more interesting question is why this shit is becoming socially necessary in the first place.
If you're paying through the ass for a “premium experience,” then the restaurant has an incentive to eliminate anything that might interfere with the commodity being sold: noise, mess, unpredictability, other people's children, etc. That's not some timeless Korean cultural pathology. It's the logic of purchasing an increasingly privatized, individualized experience. And the other side gets fucked by the same process. Parents are expected to produce children, raise them, keep them perfectly quiet in public, pay absurd housing and childcare costs, and somehow remain economically productive throughout. Then capital sells everyone increasingly expensive little islands of isolation where they can escape everyone else's existence. So you get the wonderful capitalist solution:
<Parents: “Why the fuck is society hostile to children?”
<Non-parents: “Why the fuck do I have to listen to someone else's screaming kid?”
>Restaurant owner: “Excellent. Both of you will now pay me €40 for the privilege of not encountering each other.”
The Korean birth-rate crisis isn't caused by restaurants banning toddlers, obviously. But no-kids zones can absolutely be understood as one symptom of a broader social environment in which childrearing is treated primarily as an individual's private burden rather than a collective social function. You don't solve atomization by passing a law saying “kids must be allowed into restaurants.” You solve the material conditions producing the atomization.
It's basically already defacto the case in the west with ridiculous anti-loitering laws taken to their extremes. In a lot of malls, including my local one, they literally have armed guards positioned outside the stores and around the food courts who will either harass you, kick you out, or even outright arrest you if they see you not actively shopping. Which basically means that as a kid you can no longer hang out in the mall. Or outside of it either, because it's a giant parking lot and you'll get arrested for loitering there too. And if a business DOES allow people under 18 to exist, or god forbid caters to them like Planet Fitness with its "teens work out for free" summer programs, they get flooded with complaints. Speaking as someone who worked there, the most angry comments we ever got (Libs of TikTok inspired transphobia aside) were from people aghast at the idea of seeing a minor in a public space. We had many people demanding that we ban membership outright for anybody under 21 or even under 25, and when I tried to explain to one woman why the program was a good idea (basically if they're at the gym then they're not somewhere else causing trouble) she snorted incredulously at me and called me a dupe for thinking that kids outside of home or school were there for any reason other than to do drugs. The hatred of children is pretty strongly ingrained in our culture, laws are merely a formality at this point
>>2898203Capitalism has beaten any and all patience out of most people
>>2898191That's fucking stupid. We
could have music venues without alcohol but we don't, so in reality yes, you would be banning young people from music venues.
>>2898196good post
>>2898203>the west"loitering" is only a thing in amerikkka
>>2897806>We need to ban these in the West before they become a thingThat already exists in the west.
ban children everywhere
Unique IPs: 13