/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

that tripfag is a literal Q-tard that thinks marxism is whatever people put on Deng aura edits

Mental illness

>>2900350
> marxism is whatever people put on Deng aura edits
based

The medieval peasant commune with shared grazing land is probably what they’re referring to but they’re still wrong.

>>2900360
the true levellers standard advanced?
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/winstanley/1649/levellers-standard.htm

>>2900346
>Where are people getting this idea? Is there a common source for this revision or is it arising out of pure vibes?
You have to remember that most of these people don't read theory. They get their ideas from podcasters, Youtubers and other entertainers. You can't even say that they have "theory" so much as they have gut feelings and memes from said entertainers. I'm sure they couldn't even define "liberalism", "feudalism", "fascism" or anything else by themselves.

>>2900469
>"liberalism"
Meme ideology based on hypocritical freedum
>"feudalism"
Something something peasants
>"fascism"
Corporatism but with nationalism n shit

>>2900346
i put on my galaxy brain and tried to figure out what he meant by this and this is the schizophrenia i came up with

>>2900653
maybe it's more like this… hmm..

it literally has nothing to do with feudalism i dont even get the train of thought

>>2900683
"Serfdom was abolished!" I scream as I'm herded into Elon Musk's epic bacon sauce kingdom.

>>2900655
trvth nvke

>>2900346
Feudalism is the default stage of proprietarian human development (if there is property, there is feudalism (not a bordigafag, but this is the trvth)). When slavery fails (slavery is primitive capitalism), it reverts to feudalism, when capitalism fails it reverts to feudalism, when feudalism fails, it devolves into capitalism, when socialism fails, it devolves into capitalism, which upon failure reverts to feudalism. Feudalism existed even before antiquity. It just had a different name
>feudalism
<subjection
>fiefdom
<satrapy
>fee
<tribute
>Sovereign
<King, Despot, Satrap etc.
and so on.
Communism is esoteric feudalism because it concentrates everything into the hands of the sovereign (the politburo), it creates a relationship of loyalty between the citizens and the church (the party), you could not freely move in-out or inside AES countries permanently (tied to one's land), there was excessive social surplus generated for the use by the sovereign, there was heightened sense of community (ideological) and so on. Even the collective farm system was similar to feudalism where above the fee quota, you traded on actual free markets. Lastly socialism was brought down by the soviet merchant guild in exactly the same way that the medieval merchant guild brought down feudalism because they wanted unrestricted property claims. It did not fail organically like is said in the westoid academic media (bla bla people got tired and overthrew bla bla), the merchants corrupted the sovereign into destroying the order of things so they could become the new aristocracy (the oligarchy).

>>2900350
>former q-tard
I have an even schizo'er post where I elaborate on this. I am a heterodox marxist and I can easily combine marxian + austrian economics, elite theory, microbiology, econophysics, operations planning, materialist mathematics and hermeticist spirituality. I used to be Robert Bartini in my last visit to this domain. I discovered socially necessary labor time before I read about it in Capital Vol1.
<picrel

>>2900364
>And the Reason is this, Every single man, Male and Female, is a perfect Creature of himself; and the same Spirit that made the Globe, dwels in man to govern the Globe; so that the flesh of man being subject to Reason, his Maker, hath him to be his Teacher and Ruler within himself, therefore needs not run abroad after any Teacher and Ruler without him, for he needs not that any man should teach him, for the same Anoynting that ruled in the Son of man, teacheth him all things.
Based hopeful gnosticism

>>2900655
I think this is the more dialectical represenation of my statement and very based and greenpilled. But I should probably make my own diagram to best reflect it. History does not move in a straight line. It moves in a möbius cube because the serpentigena have mental illness.

>made an effort post to rebut an midwit and nobody cares
the state of this board

>>2900897
In what, way shape or form is the slave economy of Roman antiquity early capitalism? Song China didn't have a slave economy but at least it had what were basically joint-stock companies. Did Rome?

>>2905552
Finally people are learning

>>2900364
Somebody make on KF those iceberg slopvideos explaining every entry

>>2900364
Is there an explainer for the iceberg?

>>>/siberia/818332
>Because there is a vested interest in fanning the culture war to distract from class issues.
Smaller steps generate fewer reactionaries

>>2900897
>materialist mathematics
What erm… what is that?

>>2905552
its midwit on midwit violence. i can't tell if you're being serious

>>2908342
Corporatism is not necessary for capitalism.
Unconstrained economic activity leading to property claims accumulation is. In the case of rome, competition between slaves owners for more slaves which translated into political competition between the patricians and the latifundians. This is a simplification but it helps to explain it better.

>>2900346
They explicitly trust anti-communist propaganda about how since peasants didn't directly own the land, they were serfs. Or some retarded shit about how if a capitalist can't sell it's property at any point in time he chooses, and is forced to produce a quota of goods every months, or else, it's literal feudalism and a capitlist becomes a serf. Take your pick, both are equally idiotic

>>2900653
>>2900655
yes, these are all absolutely right, look at the state of the world now and tell me we are not moving to a new feudal society, and no we are not regressing, this is history moving forward

>>2909075
I never said feudalism was bad. I applied historical materialism and arrived at the conclusion explained here >>2900897

>>2909103
Technologically we are advancing, but capitalism is regressing into feudalism because there is little new entropy generated. Capitalism is running out of steam and devolving into a more stable system of Feudalism after accounting for modernity. Once a new entropy source will be found, you will see that feudalism be destroyed from the inside by whatever future merchant guild will be there. My estimate is it has something to do with space travel and colonization with the space tech owners being the new merchant guild.

>>2909344
>Capitalism
>More stable
uyghur capitalism still hasn't recovered from the 2008 financial crash and everyone is still living through the effects of that. throw on top covid, ukraine/iran wars, and continued deterioration in living standards and we're looking at system failure across the world. it's all only still being propped up by the US military and intense media propaganda but there is growing radicalization and I think over the next decade the western left will revive if for no other reason than the right wing blaming immigrants for everything is unconvincing to anyone above a 2 digit lQ.

>>2909353
>devolving into a more stable system of Feudalism
Reading comprehension is at an all time low.

>>2900897
This is just retarded slop to argue that the USSR was a feudal State, by virtue of similarities between it and feudal manor. It's a completely retarded argument that stops at the surface-level consideration of similarities between 2 figures. It's like saying that Stalin was a nazi because he was similar in some ways to Hitler

>>2909405
>It's like saying that Stalin was a nazi because he was similar in some ways to Hitler
Although I see nobody complain when Hitler is described as a copycat of Stalin or the NSDAP as a copycat of the CPSU. Is it really surface-level when you run a materialist analysis on things?

I can only assume this means that while capitalism tends to abstract human relations into relations between things, there is going to be a point in communism where value does appear as an inherent quality of a commodity anymore, but rather sublates into human contributions to society.

Capitalism tends to obscure social relations with the commodity fetish, with labor-power also being a commodity - feudalism does not tend to do that. Relations between people, serfs, peasants, vassals, nobility and kings, makes up the political economy and the medieval polity and statecraft. I can see that as a point being made when slave societies had their own way of abstracting labor into labor-time, the slave being the subject of a property, not a social contract, that's why slave societies already had advanced civil law (Roman Law) as opposed to the ius commune (later common law) and feudal law.

Feudalism does of course have very stratified classes.

>>2909604
*where value does not appear

>>2900346
>His hypothesis is that the capitalist countries are becoming Technofeudal
I don't like his term either, I think he describes basic state-monopoly capitalism, which is already one of the transformative stages of society towards socialism, it's the womb of socialism so to say.

It's where surplus-value extraction is replaced by monopoly rent-seeking and superprofits, which leads to a material crisis in actual production - but the point is that production (means of production) is already fully socialized beyond some exotic outliers. This is a form of (bourgeois) socialism, which requires a revolutionary break in which some transformative forms of a people's democratic dictatorship, via some kind of anti-monopolist democracy, disentangles those relations.

Basically what China and the CPC describe as the "preliminary stage of socialism", but they already have a socialist republic led by a Communist Party superimposed on that from the get-go.

>>2900897
>Communism is esoteric feudalism because it concentrates everything into the hands of the sovereign (the politburo),
but the absolute monarchist state of the enlightened despots was not feudalism. feudalism was highly decentralized manorial estates that arose in the collapse of the slave empires of late antiquity

>>2909604
This leftychud gets it.
As regards class stratification, unless our biology changes, there will be specialists who are initiated into scientific disciplines because there is massive downshot potential for screwups. They will not be classes stratified, but classes networked like special cells in a body. Hence the advanced or esoteric feudalism.

>>2909651
My argument was this existed before antiquity under another name and exists even today. Absolute monarchy is a phase of feudalism as this control existed on a spectrum with the underlying property relations remaining feudal. It would be like comparing hoxhaist albania and titoist yugoslavia. Even tho they had radically different power relations, the property relations were fundamentally socialist.

>>2909491
It's not a materialist analysis (or whatever these words even mean to you), it's just picking up common similarities and saying "whoa look at that ! I just discovered that the USSR was feudal !". I remember some anon on 4chan coming to the same conclusion as you but to criticize communism.
>dude look the USSR had a politburo deciding production territorially
>and look at that ! feudalism had a lord that also decided production on his territory too !
<that must mean they're one and the same

I'm guessing the austrian economics bit is you agreeing with Mises' vague truisms ?

>>2911467
These are not common similarities, but deeper analysis into otherwise separate phenomena. It is not just the USSR I applied this to. The part you should be looking to is property relations, horizontal and vertical authority relations and ideological superstructure.

>Mises
More like understanding that the market is a natural calculator of SNLT and central planning attempts to mimic it are futile and instead Central Planning is more efficiently used as a tool within a market which is also how the USSR economy in the 1930s-1950s functioned, this not being a contradiction if your goal is proprietarianism, that is people owning property. Also Yugoslavia, China etc.

>>2912521
Before I go, I have my disagreements with cybercoms on this exact point.
>Mandated Full employment and Labor credits in the way presented by proponents of cybercommunism are indistinguishable from the vision set by the WEF.
Simply put, until I see visible simulations of said system that allows for freedom, it would not be a viable system.
If so, a system of guaranteed employment renumerated by labor credits with a parallel economy of private money is beneficial. In this case, private money demand will come from the government purchasing or allowing citizens to use labor credits to purchase goods and services produced in the parallel economy.
And this system will allow for the gradual withering away of the state bordigafags like so much.