Why don't leftists in the first world talk about abolishing money and commodity production?
Why did I have to come into contact with a tiny sect of leftcommunists to learn that Marx/Engels/Lenin actually wanted to abolish money, wage-labor and capitalist relation rather than indefinitely running a state-managed capitalism?
Why wasn't I told this right from the start?
No seriosuly, why doesn't every first world leftist party or org have abolishing money as their main platform?
Abolishing commodities and money is the same act.
To Marx, this is achieved by collectivising the means of production.
As Stalin writes, following Engels, commodity production exists so long as the extent of private production, and its abolition is a gradual transformation, not an immediate state of affairs. I don't think any first-world Communist advocates for freer markets, do they?
Since covid the American left cares more about short-term handouts than any grand idea of revolution, because something something something disabled folx.
>>2901365See this is the kind of glowie shit I'm talking about. Pretending as if "communists" not talking about the literal actual goal of communism never happens. Pretending as if million of self described leftists worldwide actually have zero clue that socialism is about abolishing commodity production.
When asked about it, they go "uhhh actually we are totally on it, we just don't talk about it because it's a long process okay??? Anyway get back to working for wages faggot"
Fuck you. You should get raped to death for being such a snake
>>2901371*actually don't have a clue
>>2901368Reatrded pop history. The American left NEVER gave a shit about abolishing money and commodity production except for a few during the IWW times, but their workerism and lack of proper organization and long term programme meant they were easily defeated.
In the past 100 years at least, 99% of American leftist, left liberals and centre left, and Maosits or whatever other subhuman larppers NEVER talk about what communism is actually about
>>2901371I don't understand this complaint.
What is the actual alternative?
To immediately ban money so that people are forced to steal?
Uhhhh Marx never talked about what communism looked like.
Please ignore all the times that he actually did tho
Please ignore the brazillion pages he wrote against all other leftists who proposed state capitalism or workerism rather than actually abolishing capitalist relations
Please ignore that before Stalinist falsification it was common knowledge that abolition of wage labor and money was the goal
>>2901372>>2901377>pretending to be retarded and illiterateThe question is in the OP. Why does no one actually talk about communism as is actually communism and not indefinite state capitalism.
Why is it not common knowledge among the working class that socialist want to abolish money and commodity production. Why do socialist themselves keep upholding lies that socialism is about state capitalism..
Why do leftists not propose a short term program and long term programme to actual communism, and not just another variant of social democracy
Kill yourself subhumans
>>2901378Yeah but bro we can't do it without first reaching the level of productive forces of the entire NATO block (not even China can ever reach that)
>>2901380>I think that we should take healthcare out of private hands<Oh, so you are just a reformist, then? Succdem!I excused your Pepe to begin with, but now its clear you are just a troll.
Leftoid subhuman : abolish capitalism!! Fucking liberals and their social democracy
Actual communist : OK why don't you have a program to abolish capitalist relations like money and commodity production
Leftoid subhuman : Uhhh the economic calculation problem bro. Stop being so far left bro. We need to wage slave for fifty more decades to increase productive forces bro. Ignore the overproduction crises happening even in third world countries bro. Also we need to eternally engage in nationalist and religious battles and delay communism.
If every single leftist on the planet died, it would be a net benefit for communism
>>2901382>>I think that we should take healthcare out of private handsBismarck impressed
>>2901387And Hitler was a vegetarian, too.
>>2901389>xe doesn't even know why communists criticize social democracyJSID. Just change this website name to liberalpol
>>2901362>leftists in the first worldName a single 'leftist' outside of the first world who has seriously advocated abolishing money and the production of commodities.
>>2901397POV: a PC_ in Europe
>>2901362>actually wanted to abolish moneyThis very little to do with wanting something and very much to do with being able to deliver promises like this without causing societal collapse.
>>2901410Guess - leftoid or neoliberal
"Abolishing money is a utopian that would cause the collapse of society"
>>2901410So what happened to the "disdain to conceil their ideas" now you have to pussyfoot around because "it's not achievable in 5 years" as if that would stop any other political parties from saying it, greens in every country say they will abolish nuclear energy, they don't give a shit
>>2901362The Wikipedia-tier definition of communism everyone knows is stateless and moneyless society, but people say it can't happen for 500 years until we have Star Trek replicators or something. No one knows what a commodity is.
The only plans like that I'm aware of are the Fundamental Principles of Communist Production and Distribution from 1930 and Cockshott's Toward a New Socialism. I heard the group behind Fundamental Principles changed their mind later or something but I'm not sure, and I've heard various criticisms of Cockshott, but meh, at least it's something.
https://www.marxists.org/subject/left-wing/gik/1930/index.htmI think the analytic Marxists came up with something too, but I'm less sure about that, and some people say they're not really Marxists, but they were trying to solve similar problems.
I remember some immediate program proposal where socialists could do away with IP rights and make utilities like water and electricity free, and a lot of medicine almost free (at least the kind where it costs like 1 cent per pill to make). Other things would be more complicated and even the water/electricity thing kinda depends on where you live. Climate change and resource depletion will make things tough.
>No seriosuly, why doesn't every first world leftist party or org have abolishing money as their main platform?
It wasn't part of the platforms of Marx, Engels, or Lenin either.
>>2901501Also with the internet you could do stuff like put all movie, tv, music, books, video games, etc. online for free, all school lectures for free, college books for free, all corporate and industrial secrets shared freely.
>Introducing socialism means abolishing commodity production, abolishing the money system, razing capitalism to its foundations and socialising all the means of production. The Socialist-Revolutionaries, however, want to leave all this intact and to socialise only the land, which is absolutely impossible. If commodity production remains intact, the land, too, will become a commodity and will come on to the market any day, and the "socialism" of the Socialist-Revolutionaries will be blown sky-high. Clearly, they want to introduce socialism within the framework of capitalism, which, of course, is inconceivable. That is exactly why it is said that the "socialism" of the Socialist-Revolutionaries is bourgeois socialism.
feels good being a common sense stalinist from 1906 (before he cucked out)
>>2901391>Just change this website name to liberalpolim glad more people are nooooticing how rightist the average user here actually is
>>2901380>Why does no one actually talk about communism as is actually communism and not indefinite state capitalism. Everybody does talk about that. Leftcoms are just retards who don't know what state capitalism or socialism are.
because it's a nonsensical idea. humans make things and trade things, it's what we do. you might as well talk about abolishing defecation or breathing air.
>>2901362>Why wasn't I told this right from the start?because basically what we call leftism today (and as other anon pointed out is not just a first world thing) is just cope for the failure of communist revolution in the early 20th century, its all about pretending shit that has nothing to do with socialism is somehow socialism or helping the advent of socialism
>>2901362they do, there's plenty of leftcoms in the west who prattle on endlessly about comprod but you never see them in public for some mysterious reason
>>2901551Please read the Dawn of Everything and Cockshot's How the World Works.
>>2901559Sunlight burns their skin and they get nervous around girls.
>>2901560no. if you want to engage in a political debate, you have to write your own argument in your own words just like i write my argument in my own words, that's how this works. if you're too lazy or stupid to form your own coherent argument and all you can do is plug books for me to read then don't try to discuss politics, go play your videogames.
>>2901571>if you want to engage in a political debatewhat if they just wanted to recomend you some reads?
>>2901588i don't like unsolicited recommendations from random strangers, it's annoying and rude.
>Le leftcomism
Why are we still on this? Is it some elaborate troll campaign or what?
Do these retards exist outside of niche internet communities?
>>2901612I think you just dont like reading
bait used to be believable
>>2901362You don't abolish money. You make it obsolete. Literally how do you plan on abolishing money? By killing anyone with a dollar bill? People will always have money.
So you need to eliminate the need for money through development. This is why China is developing the productive forces. Abolishing money is not an actionable solution any Marxist state can use.
>>2901453>greens in every country say they will abolish nuclear energy, they don't give a shitChanging energy source from nuclear to coal isn't that radical. Abolishing money should be they goal but steps towards it should be taken with caution.
labor vouchers
- direct compensation for labor
- cannot pass it onto your kids
- cannot hoard it
- cannot redeem it for metal
- cannot invest it
I think the maxima “Each according to their needs, each according to their ability” is more fitting. Marx, or anyone really, ever described in detail how such maxima would be accomplished.
Abolishing money on an international scale is quite difficult and will take time and coordination. Assuming it’s possible
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