How many of you are actual communists, and how many of you are just contrarian misanthropes who found the far-right too embarrassing?
If it’s the second, have you considered that working people don’t listen to you not because they’re inherently hostile to leftism or because they’re “treatlers,” but because your ideas betray your contempt? And that you’re actually a liability to socialism by getting people to associate it with neurotic contrarians?
I'm an actual communist and people listen to me. I think for most it's a skill issue.
Communism is opposite to missnthropy. Wanting good life not only for you but for others is a good trait.
Started off as the second kind. I was super contrarian but absolutely hated the far right. I mean actually hated, if you gave me a button that would kill all of them I would instantly press it (still would). Eventually I actually got around to reading kapital though and found that I agreed with basically everything communists believed
How can communists exist when communism doesn’t? At best you want it, which is an idealism, especially when contemporary capitalism’s only trajectory is extinction, the common ruin of the contending classes
>>2904868mental masturbation response
>>2904869Where is the material base for communism? China isn’t it, the advanced economies aren’t, the third world is as impotent as the proletariat of the advanced economies
>>2904868doomers get the bullet, too
>>2904880not your twitch chat either, this is not a debatebro friendly space. now kys misanthrope, satanist.
>>2904888I spit in your fucking face
>10 replies
>already at “kill yourself”
>>2904971
Those least experienced with capitalism are always the first to rebel against it. Exploitation is obvious when the population is one generation removed from subsistence farming and they're governed by some repressive tinpot dictatorship with no social democrats in sight.
>>2904812I try to be the former. I consider myself to be an authentic scientific socialist and follow the data where it leads and it does not lead to LARPing as though the Cultural Revolution never ended or that the goal of communism is establishing a thousand "decolonized" ethnically homogeneous Democratic Kampucheas.
>If it’s the second, have you considered that working people don’t listen to you not because they’re inherently hostile to leftism or because they’re “treatlers,” but because your ideas betray your contempt? And that you’re actually a liability to socialism by getting people to associate it with neurotic contrarians?When you realize that a lot of leftoidism is driven by would-be elites that feel jilted by capitalism, it all makes sense. Really, I don't think most leftoids hate capitalism all that much, only that they were on the wrong side of it. If they had the opportunity to flip the script and put themselves at the top, the "treatlerites" at the bottom but change nothing else, they'd do it.
>>2905044Agreed
>>2905048^ 10 bucks says this guy jacks off to soyjak porn
>>2904873They don't have an answer to this because there isn't one that doesn't drift off into idealism.
>>2905044I think one of the good indicators of being a good Communist, is realising often that materialist analysis and diamat, often comes to outcomes that go against, the current at the moment progressive succdem shibboleths, and the real test is, are you going to continue with your materialist conclusions, and work from there, or are you going to prog succdem out? 99% of "Communists" (including most on leftypol including the banhammer jannies who constantly put succdem bullshit ahead of Materialism) do the latter.
Another point I find is that sometimes the right are actually correct (but again for the wrong reasons usually), but you find a lot of the left, continue to fight against reality, purely out of partisanship, even when the outcome and analysis is settled. Again, though, if the right said the sky is blue, a lot of the left (including a lot here) would say it's Green with pink polka dots. It's the same way the right continues to fight against say, Climate Change being real.
I love council communism
>>2904812I try not to be but mostly the second I think. I don't worry about being a liability. I mostly got into reading theory for trying to understand the roots of my own personal issues. I eventually decided that the only real way to change my own pathologies was to change the social conditions around me.
i'm just a person. i don't feel any need to reduce myself to some one-dimensional costumed persona to feel like i exist and matter. when i hear people say things like "i am a communist" or "i am an anarcho-capitalist" or "i am a nihilist" or whatever, all i hear is a sad clown squeezing a little clown horn. honk honk!
>>2905742
No they aren't; National "Socialists" are actually right-wing idiots who love stealing symbols and rhetoric from the left but are the biggest spooked retards and the useful idiots of capitalists.
>>2905923Good man
>>2905939Because many people here don’t want a better life, they’re basically edgelords with fantasies of sending everyone to the coal mines while they get to be Tim Curry from Red Alert. They’re not really communists in substance, they’re people who looked at leftover Cold War stereotypes and went “this is how I must own the normies”
>>2906019
Natfag retard
>>2906019
Uh-huh, you sure you aren't talking about yourself there, buddy? Why is it every "National Socialist" only goes after people who can't fight back like a coward?
Neo-Nazis are always the useful idiots of the capitalist and you are nothing but cannon fodder for them. Race is a Spook, Gender is a Spook. Stop thinking that you are somehow superior due to the level of melanin in your skin and pretending you accomplished something via "Racial Accomplishment" when you really haven't done shit.
>>2904873>China isn’t itIt's closer to it that the others.
>>2904863<t. Used to be a Maga q-tard>Eventually I actually got around to reading kapital though and found that I agreed with basically everything communists believedSame thing happened to me. I am still what leftychuds would call a reactionary or as a more knowledgeable bloke once called me a "20th century communist" idk what that means but whatever.
>>2904812You are wrong about people not liking communism. The average "treatler" absolutely hates communism or any kind of gemeinwesen ideology etc. There is a reason for protestantism, capitalism, individualism, anti-communism all being connected. Average person hates sacrificing for something not their own because they are products of a system that actively discourages it. People worship Tate, Trump, Musk because we are a Zootopia of predator worshippers. Nobody got rich helping others. Plus you are going against the historical reality of western countries being anti-collectivist. And even when they were it was short lived or for a bullshit reason. Take it from a former trump voter:
Communism is inherently unpopular in the modern zeitgeist. Watch the west fall and burn and then communism will become popular because reality will smash all those dreams of being an apex predator.
>>2906267>>2906414What is the argument here?
>>2906412
Only in the downwards direction lol
Much easier to fall from grace than to lift off the ground.
>>2906413>former trump voterOpinion discarded
>>2904816>Communism is opposite to missnthropy. Wanting good life not only for you but for others is a good trait.Communism's placement in the left is a paradox. They're complete materialists and misanthropists and the workers get enslaved in the end anyway. It was invented by a lumpenburger.
>>2904868This. Too.
>>2906713>the workers get enslaved in the end anyway.Explain your bullshit. Who is doing the enslavement? Why would an economy run for use and not profit of few individuals and without a state require slavery. Especially when labor will be something you can freely associate with.
>>2906735The only collectivism present in western countries is either zionist or ersatz-zionist where the predators gang up on the prey. Unless you have proof to the contrary.
>>2906744> Who is doing the enslavement? Why would an economy run for use and not profit of few individuals and without a state require slavery.Your own needs and the needs of others in society, it’s a lesser form of slavery than to nature or to private property or money, but is still slavery in the end. As for free association I doubt we’ll ever get to the point where labor specialization isn’t required to maintain and produce the ever increasingly complex infrastructure and technology that makes everything so convenient in the first place. Maybe we can get rid of wages, but I’m much more skeptical about getting rid of “jobs”. Even if the janitor was socially worshipped and compensated twice or four times that of other workers it doesn’t make that work fun or enriching.
>>2906744>Who is doing the enslavement?In theory, you can't choose not to work. In history the blame is on the regime and the regime alone and not the theory they claimed to follow.
>>2906937>Your own needs and the needs of others in society, it’s a lesser form of slavery than to nature or to private property or money, but is still slavery in the end.No, it's actually the worst because it's mediated (bottlenecked through) by officials and then forced on you. If it was to Nature or some abstract economy, you could use your wit to get an easier deal and there's some explanation that this is how things work anyway. That alone would benefit the collective in many ways. If it's Big Brother telling you what to do, it's Big Brother telling you what to do and he's got a gun and there's nothing you can do to change your job and purpose. There's no describing to how bad that would feel or what you would do to get out of it, rabid is how I would begin.
It's officials and their fear of communist leadership that genocided the sparrows in Maoist China and allowed agricultural Lysenkoism to make the existing famines worse in the USSR.
Even if a communist paradise was the natural end of human history, the idea that violent revolution would lead to it only misled the people away from realising that. You don't have to be a crusader for natural Truths, well… not in this way.
>>2906897You print money to buy weapons and weapons depreciate like rusty cars but you've got nukes so you can't use them directly yourself.
You sell the weapons to some people but they don't want to use the weapons either because war is destructive and they like their healthcare system very much.
Weapons keep getting sold and re-sold until they're used somewhere out there in the solar system.
Weapons were a necessary evil in history but what if they decided to take over history instead to guarantee their profits?
>>2906744NTA but no free people would work in factories or mines if they had better options. The free people of the world had to be slaughtered or pushed onto marginal land for the sake of "progress." But in fairness to the commies, theirs might be a more tolerable slavery, if the universal labor camp worked out as they say (but every camp needs guards and a warden).
>>2904812I heard in CHINA people don't identify as commies unless they're actually in the party. Otherwise they might call themselves commie supporters. I don't know if that's true I heard it from social media but it sounds GOOD so I'll repeat it and say that could apply here also.
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