Why was Warsaw's destruction not declared a Nazi war crime by Nuremberg? Was it actually destroyed by Soviets? There was no Warsaw destruction listed in court sentence anywhere, despite Poles putting loads of documents for the court to consider, just like Soviets did with Katyn, but were repelled by the court.
Was Stalin responsible for Warsaw destruction the same way he lost Katyn case in Nuremberg?
Dachau and Buchenwald aren't mentioned in the sentencing either, weirdly enough. Auschwitz had an episode of women getting neutered in indictment, but no mention of it in the sentencing. Were the Soviets responsible for all of those, I wonder? Judging by how it is claimed that since Katyn is missing in the sentencing, it means that court refused the accusation
Yes, it was the evil USSR that killed the Slavs, whom the Germans merely wanted to liberate from the poison of gommunizmus.
There's a book by Snyder which speaks of this.
>Goebbels admitted in his diary that Katyn was a Nazi falseflag
Where?
<Polish mass graves have been found near Smolensk. The Bolsheviks simply shot down and then shoveled into mass graves some 10,000 Polish prisoners, among them civilian captives, bishops, intellectuals, artists, et cetera. Above these mass graves they built installations to cover up any possible traces of their dastardly deeds. The secret about these executions became known through hints given by the inhabitants. Gruesome aberrations of the human soul were thus revealed. I saw to it that the Polish mass graves be inspected by neutral journalists from Berlin. I also had Polish intellectuals taken there. They are to see for themselves what is in store for them should their wish that the Germans be defeated by the Bolsheviks actually be fulfilled.
<Unfortunately German munitions were found in the graves of Katyn. The question of how they got there needs clarification. It is either a case of munitions sold by us during the period of our friendly arrangement with the Soviet Russians, or of the Soviets themselves throwing these munitions into the graves. In any case it is essential that this incident be kept top secret. If it were to come to the knowledge of the enemy the whole Katyn affair would have to be dropped.
There's only this bit
<Unfortunately we have had to give up Katyn. The Bolsheviks un- doubtedly will soon "find" that we shot the 12,000 Polish officers. That episode is one that is going to cause us quite a little trouble in the future. The Soviets are undoubtedly going to make it their business to discover as many mass graves as possible and then blame them on us.
Which is Goebbels saying the Soviet massacre will now be blamed on Germany, not him admitting the Germans did it.
The discovery of these mass graves also prompted the Nazis to speed up the exhumation and cremation of their own mass graves such as at Treblinka to avoid the same thing befalling them as did the Soviets.
I don't know about any of this other shit (though I'm pretty sure it was Gorbachev who spilled the beans about this whole affair, not Yeltsin), but why would Goebbels write about a false flag in his diary as if it actually happened?
>>2913272>Unfortunately German munitions were found in the graves of Katyn. The question of how they got there needs clarification. It is either a case of munitions sold by us during the period of our friendly arrangement with the Soviet Russians, or of the Soviets themselves throwing these munitions into the graves. In any case it is essential that this incident be kept top secret. If it were to come to the knowledge of the enemy the whole Katyn affair would have to be dropped.This is the line for the admission. It doesn't make sense if one logically thinks it through. Almost like Goebbels was rambling and got lost in his own spiel.
I think many war crimes attributed to the Soviets are bullshit, but honestly Katyn made the most sense. Eradicating the aristocratic arch reactionary officers corps of the Polish army in war times at least makes sense from a socialist perspective. Remember that 10% of the Polish army came from an aristocratic background, so it wasn't just some generals but also the entire officer corps including petty officers.
Poland always had an excess amount of nobles, pretty much a million during the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. They used to make that joke that some nobles can't own a horse because their plot pf land would end where the horse's ass would begin. Which was of course a huge drain on the working population and eventually led to the downfall of the Commonwealth.
We also have the signed orders of the "Polish Operation". I see absolutely no reason why they would forge this when they opened the Soviet archives.
>>2913315Goebbels says he doesn’t know why the ammunition is there. If Germany had carried out the massacre and framed the Soviets, Goebbels would have known the reason. The diary entry literally proves the exact opposite of German culpability.
>>2913325Katyn was committed by Nazis, as per Nuremberg trial. Soviets have documents on Polish POWs in gulags, having free entry and leave policy ala Chinese re-education camps in Xinjiang, and many fates of Polish POWs was that they settled down in Russia.
>>2913328>Soviets throwing German bullets into the Polish graves in 1940 so that Germans, when they inevitable take Smolensk and get to future "Katyn" site, will be framed for murder of Polish POWs >>2913341>>2913328Honestly, quite believable. Stalin was an asiatic man, fluent in witchcraft and arcane matters of astrology, he could realistically have known that Nazis will advance right to Moscow. Even Goebbels for a second was convinced that Germans might have done it, just like they did in Dachau, Buchenwald, Aushwitz, and other murder camps. Not in Katyn, though; that's impossible for them to have carried mass murders and framed Soviets for them
>>2913315Oh, and in regards to bullets. Those were gecko something something bullets, and the modern Katyn denialists' claim is that Soviets looted those in Finland and then used for killing the Poles.
There are ZERO facts provided for this conjecture, they just find the one only possible solution to a puzzle and then demand you to argue with their shit.
>>2913342>>2913344Careful with the sarcasm leftychud. There are too many retards who will not understand what you are saying.
Is none of you ever gonna address that the Russians literally admitted it, as evidenced from the Soviet archives? There are signed orders.
>>2913341>>Soviets throwing German bullets into the Polish graves in 1940 so that Germans, when they inevitable take Smolensk and get to future "Katyn" site, will be framed for murder of Polish POWsYou’re being obtuse. If the Germans had framed the USSR, then Goebbels would have known how the bullets got there. Instead, his diary entry shows that he’s confused.
>>2913357No, they won’t because they’re statist apologists.
>>2913360People who fake stuff quite often make mistakes like that. Lying is harder than saying truth.
>>2913357And now they don't admit to it. Your point? Why are you supplanting actual scientific research and actual court cases with political proclamations?
>>2913362>People who fake stuff quite often make mistakes like thatMeanwhile, Katyn denialists have to invent "aberrations of memory", "double counting", "typewriter girls making mistakes", "they were just stupid enough to put 31st June onto the document", etc etc
>>2913362Why would Goebbels be lying in his private diary?
The goebbels diary very obviously implies that at the very least he was not aware of it being German troops, that at the very least he thought it was a Soviet crime, and that he's confused as to why German ammo was found and is frustrated that it means a propaganda weapon has been turned against them.
>>2913315How so? Goebbels writes multiple times in glee about how great this thing is and how he's showing the German Volk how barbaric the Jewish-Bolsheviks are. Overjoyed he is writing about how the red cross will go do an independent investigation and how he's brought journalists and intellectuals there. Now something's come to light, German bullets, that might add some nuance to this slam-dunk propaganda victory and obviously he doesn't want that getting out.
This is all his
personal diary, mind you. He mentions Katyn 20 times over the course of like 40 pages. Even if the Germans did Katyn, Goebbels's diary does not seem like good evidence for it. I've attached the pdf this time, go read for yourself.
>>2913366Because from the get go diary was meant for publication. It wasn't a personal diary, it was a propaganda piece Goebbels wanted to sell
>>2913393Very interesting. Now, can you answer the OP question? Why are Nazi war crimes, mentioned in indictment, do not appear in sentencing, just like Katyn? Those weren't Nazi crimes, were the accusation repudiated or what?
>>2913373Btw, isn't it funny that Katyn denialists took literal Goebbels position on the issue word for word and claim that Soviets acquired German bullets somehow? They also take German exhumations at face value, even though Soviets unearthed 100 times as many corpses and did a much more thorough research on them, actually matching names and corpses - while Katyn denialists use Nazis list which famously contained fake entries, because Nazis, instead of actually finding names, did a funny trick of asking Poles to submit requests for finding a name of their missing loved one, and then put them in a Katyn corpses list, which is why there were both alive and fake entries
>>2913398Like I said in my original reply, I don't know much about the rest of the OP. I just thought the bit about the Goebbels diary was incorrect. If the Germans are indeed guilty of the massacre, I wouldn't want people incorrectly using evidence pointing in the opposite direction. That would be quite embarrassing and doing Nazi apologists a favor.
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