[ home / rules / faq / search ] [ overboard / sfw / alt ] [ leftypol / edu / labor / siberia / lgbt / latam / hobby / tech / games / anime / music / draw / AKM / ufo / 420 ] [ meta ] [ wiki / shop / tv / tiktok / twitter / patreon ] [ GET / ref / marx / booru ]

/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internet about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
Name
Options
Subject
Comment
Flag
File
Embed
Password(For file deletion.)

Check out our new store at shop.leftypol.org!


File: 1789497442110-6.png (685.04 KB, 789x1563, dengpill.png)

 

The quote in Capital Volume 2 does not match the implication of the picture.

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1885-c2/ch01.htm#4

>True, the capitalist must also be there, must also live and consume to be able to perform the function of a capitalist. To this end, he has, indeed, to consume only as much as the labourer, and that is all this form of the circulation process presupposes. But even this is not formally expressed, since the formula concludes with M', i.e., a result which can at once resume its function as money-capital, now augmented.


>C' — M' directly contains the sale of C'; but C' — M', a sale on the one part, is M — C, a purchase, on the other part, and in the last analysis a commodity is bought only for its use-value, in order to enter (leaving intermediate sales out of consideration) the process of consumption, whether this is individual or productive, according to the nature of the article bought. But this consumption does not enter the circuit of individual capital, the product of which is C'. This product is eliminated from the circuit precisely because it is a commodity for sale. C' is expressly designed for consumption by others than the producer. Thus we find that certain exponents of the mercantile system (which is based on the formula M — C … P … C' — M') deliver lengthy sermons to the effect that the individual capitalist should consume only as much as the labourer, that the nation of capitalists should leave the consumption of their own commodities, and the consumption process in general, to the other, less intelligent nations but that they themselves should make productive consumption their life’s task. These sermons frequently remind one in form and content of analogous ascetic expostulations of the fathers of the church.


It seems Marx is not promoting Dengism but rather attacking those that support "sound money" fiscal conservatives. This line stands out:
>individual capitalist should consume only as much as the labourer, that the nation of capitalists should leave the consumption of their own commodities, and the consumption process in general, to the other, less intelligent nations but that they themselves should make productive consumption their life’s task.
<That is foreign countries can live above their means while we must be autarkic
>These sermons frequently remind one in form and content of analogous ascetic expostulations of the fathers of the church
<Greed is bad, live within your means

Tldr Marx did not promoting Dengism, he was attacking Blue Dog democrats.
This begs the question, is there any definitive Marxist statement that unapologetically promotes Dengism?

the image does not say or imply marx promotes something called "dengism." in fact it suggests china is a "nation of capitalists" who "leaves the consumption of their own commodities, and the consumption process in general, to other, less intelligent nations" like the USA

this explains how China becomes strong while the USA becomes weak.

>This begs the question, is there any definitive Marxist statement that unapologetically promotes Dengism?


Dengism isn't a real thing.

Anyway Marx said this:

>No social order is ever destroyed before all the productive forces for which it is sufficient have been developed, and new superior relations of production never replace older ones before the material conditions for their existence have matured within the framework of the old society.



Engels said this:


>Will it be possible for private property to be abolished at one stroke? No, no more than existing forces of production can at one stroke be multiplied to the extent necessary for the creation of a communal society. In all probability, the proletarian revolution will transform existing society gradually and will be able to abolish private property only when the means of production are available in sufficient quantity.


Deng said this:

>I am convinced that more and more people will come to believe in Marxism, because it is a science. Using historical materialism, it has uncovered the laws governing the development of human society. Feudal society replaced slave society, capitalism supplanted feudalism, and, after a long time, socialism will necessarily supersede capitalism. This is an irreversible general trend of historical development, but the road has many twists and turns. Over the several centuries that it took for capitalism to replace feudalism, how many times were monarchies restored! So, in a sense, temporary restorations are usual and can hardly be avoided. Some countries have suffered major setbacks, and socialism appears to have been weakened. But the people have been tempered by the setbacks and have drawn lessons from them, and that will make socialism develop in a healthier direction. So don't panic, don't think that Marxism has disappeared, that it's not useful any more and that it has been defeated. Nothing of the sort!


>So, to build socialism it is necessary to develop the productive forces. Poverty is not socialism. To uphold socialism, a socialism that is to be superior to capitalism, it is imperative first and foremost to eliminate poverty. True, we are building socialism, but that doesn’t mean that what we have achieved so far is up to the socialist standard. Not until the middle of the next century, when we have reached the level of the moderately developed countries, shall we be able to say that we have really built socialism and to declare convincingly that it is superior to capitalism. We are advancing towards that goal.

>>2913723
>This begs the question, is there any definitive Marxist statement that unapologetically promotes Dengism?

File: 1789663355270-3.png (658.51 KB, 617x606, NO WAY.png)

>>2913984
Damn. Dats big.
Danks for dats.

How long until the Delcy elder scroll drops?

>>2914881
but what did you think of this reply, >>2913835

>>2914900
that traitor should be shot

>>2914910
but enough about deng

File: 1789680148409-3.png (174.73 KB, 727x814, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2914914
problem?

File: 1789680195882-4.png (486.08 KB, 1418x1418, ClipboardImage.png)


>>2914902
It's alright. I was looking for a little bit more stuff from Marx and Engels. Hence why that Dengscroll is valuable.

>>2914900
How to end USA embargo and get your enemy to invest in your oil infrastructure with this one simple trick.

We won't talk much about how great chinese capitalism once it has an actual overproduction crisis, like any other capitalist state. Just you wait dengbros

>>2915081
>to centralise all instruments of production in the hands of the State
This is what Mao did, and what Deng dismantled.

>to increase the total of productive forces

China increased their productive forces by buying machinery from Germany in the 1990s and 2000s. It didn't come out of nowhere.

https://duepublico2.uni-due.de/servlets/MCRFileNodeServlet/duepublico_derivate_00005397/AP59.pdf
>It was only in 1992 that once again a significant increase in German exports to China could be observed. It coincided on the one hand with the resumption of the reform process in China when the reformers regained dominance over more conservative forces. On the other hand, a significant improvement in the bilateral political climate can be observed during that period. Germany did not only lift its sanctions against China – which until then she had upheld much more strictly than other Western industrial countries – but also refrained from selling submarines to Taiwan.
>All this contributed markedly to an improvement of economic relations, which, in addition, were promoted by German export subsidies targeting the Chinese market. German soft loans contributed greatly to the sale of container ships, wagons, and subway facilities to China.
>But Germany’s China-bound exports are perhaps most of all promoted by the German and eventually global FDI-commitment in China. In the middle of the 1990s about two thirds of Germany’s exports to China had been ordered by foreign invested enterprises which imported German capital goods (first of all machinery, automobiles, electro-technical products).

>During the 1990s Germany built up a massive trade deficit with China. This deficit in the balance of trade reflects, on the one hand, the consistent implementation of an export-oriented foreign trade strategy and a catching-up process of the Chinese economy, which especially in the early 1980s was not in a position to offset her imports of German plant and equipment with export goods that would have found demand in Germany. This export weakness has now been overcome.

>At the end of the 1990s, German exports to China were dominated by machinery and electronic equipment which commanded about 50%; automobiles had a share of about 10%.

https://www.npr.org/sections/planet-money/2025/09/30/g-s1-90937/germany-thrived-in-the-first-china-shock-but-the-next-one-could-prove-catastrophic
>The first China Shock happened in the early 2000s. That's when exports from China began surging and manufacturers around the world found themselves unable to compete. In America, this first China Shock led to over a million manufacturing workers losing their jobs and many industrial towns falling into doomspirals.

>Germany, however, was largely insulated from the first China Shock.

>Sander Tordoir, an economist at the Centre for European Reform, a think tank, says a big reason was that China's export boom back then was in low-end manufactured products like textiles, toys, consumer electronics, and furniture, "not in the industries that are the hallmark of the German economy, namely autos, chemicals, and machines."

>"After China joined the WTO in 2001, the German machinery sector and China, we had the perfect complementary relationship," Richtberg says. "We made a lot of money in China."


>Centralisation of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.

This is the only highlighted part that makes sense. China is closer to have achieved this point more than most other countries. The banking sector in China is highly regulated, and all important banks are either completely owned by the state or partially owned by the state.
That being said, China is not the only country in the world with public banks: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_bank#Public_banks_by_country

>Equal liability of all to work.

What does this even mean, in practice? Ask any billionaire, whenever they are American or Chinese, what they do in life, and they will tell you they work hard (to get rich). Would you consider this work?
Is it equal liability to work directly in the industrial process of production? Neither Marx, a journalist reading books in the British Museum all day, nor Engels, an upper manager exploiting kids in his family's Manchester factory, did this. Deng briefly worked in a tofu factory in France, where he met other Chinese communists, but that's it.

There is also the existence of the "reserve's army of labour" which, as Marx has shown when he was more serious, is more or less unavoidable within a capitalist economy. For reference, unemployment in China reached 5.2% in July 2026, and youth unemployment in particular reached 17.9%, a number comparable to many other capitalist countries, and higher than Japan and South Korea.
The rate of unemployment in China has trended upward over the past few decades, not downward: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/SLUEM1524ZSCHN

At the end of the day, I don't see how the Chinese government implement this imperative any differently than other market economies. Mao did establish industrial armies in the agricultural sector for a while, but as China developed and then later switched to a market economy, these weren't needed anymore.

You want 0% unemployment? I have a simple solution: reduce the hours worked in a week for the average worker, and guarantee strong union rights to laborers. Make the 24-hour workweek the standard for everyone without any decrease in salary and watch the unemployment rate drop instantly.
The problem is that the bourgeoisie will never want this because it's equivalent to raising the hourly wage of every laborer. And it's not like anyone cares about the well-being of workers these days, think about the economy…

>>2916532
>muh overproduction crisis

"PLEASE, NO, YOU MADE SO MUCH FOOD IT'S NO LONGER PROFITABLE TO SEL, PLEASE STOP, WE HAVE TO BURN IT ALL INSTEAD OF GIVING IT AWAY"

>>2916532
china overproduced solar panels so it gave some away to cuba. in america when you overproduce a commodity you just throw it in the garbage until it's profitable again.

if china is socialist then so is fascist italy

>>2916946
Fascist Italy was feudal. It completely missed out on the industrial revolution in northwestern Europe (some cities in northern Italy less so). China is the most advanced technological society ever developed with cutting-edge advancements in telecommunications, AI, biotechnology, robotics, nuclear energy, etc. We don't compare socialist China to feudal shitholes.

>>2916930
Chinese capitalists won't like that arrangement forever

>>2916647
>This is what Mao did, and what Deng dismantled.
what senile mao did was tell people to make backyard furnaces and start a culture war where people were lynched for being too educated, and what the gang of four did was to miseducate people that socialism is when poverty

<Then in 1966 came the “cultural revolution”, which lasted a whole decade, a real disaster for China. During that period many veteran cadres suffered persecution, including me. I was labelled the "No. 2 Capitalist Roader" after Liu Shaoqi. Liu was called "commander-in-chief of the bourgeois headquarters" and I "deputy commander-in-chief". Many strange things happened in those days. For instance, people were told that they should be content with poverty and backwardness and that it was better to be poor under socialism and communism than to be rich under capitalism. That was the sort of rubbish peddled by the Gang of Four. There is no such thing as socialism and communism with poverty. The ideal of Marxists is to realize communism. According to Marx, communist society is a society in which the principle of from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs is applied. What is the principle of to each according to his needs? How can we apply this principle without highly developed productive forces and vast material wealth? According to Marxism, communist society is a society in which there is overwhelming material abundance. Socialism is the first stage of communism; it means expanding the productive forces, and it represents a long historical period. Only if we constantly expand the productive forces can we finally achieve communism. The Gang of Four's absurd theory of socialism and communism led only to poverty and stagnation. […] Certain individuals, pretending to support the reform and the open policy, call for wholesale Westernization of China in an attempt to lead the country towards capitalism. These people don't really support our policies; they are only trying vainly to change the nature of our society. If China were totally Westernized and went capitalist, it would be absolutely impossible for us to modernize. The problem we have to solve is how to enable our one billion people to cast off poverty and become prosperous. If we adopted the capitalist system in China, probably a small number of people would be enriched, while the overwhelming majority would remain in a permanent state of poverty. If that happened, there would be a revolution in China. China's modernization can be achieved only through socialism, not capitalism. There have been people who have tried to introduce capitalism into China, and they have always failed.


  • Deng Xiaoping, We shall draw on historical experience and guard against wrong tendencies, April 30, 1987


What Deng did is to make Socialist China stronger and Imperialist America weaker.

>>2917259
capitalists would never make that arrangement in the first place

>>2917173
>>2916946
The closest thing to china in the west was probably gaullism

>>2917263
>>>/leftypol/2917494

On September 18, the Cyberspace Administration of China issued the "Notice on Strengthening the Management of Infringing Information Concerning Enterprises and Continuously Optimizing the Online Business Environment". Here's the most imporant part in the notice (most notably 2, 4 and 5):

[…] Website platforms must proactively identify and address the following types of infringing content:

Personal information: Includes the disclosure of personal identity and contact details, such as ID cards, passports, household registration records, home addresses, and phone numbers, as well as sensitive personal data like biometric information, medical and health records, financial account details, and location tracking data.

Insults and derogatory content: Includes verbal abuse or insults directed at enterprises and entrepreneurs; the malicious parodying or caricaturing of corporate logos, products, or entrepreneurs' likenesses; maliciously linking enterprises or entrepreneurs to pornographic or vulgar topics; and using stigmatizing language to disparage enterprises, entrepreneurs, or specific brand users.

Impersonation and counterfeiting: Includes impersonating news organizations to produce or publish information regarding corporate oversight; publishing information under the guise of an enterprise or entrepreneur; and the unauthorized use of names, logos, or entrepreneurs' names and likenesses, identical or similar to those of the actual enterprise, in the names, avatars, or profiles of public accounts.

False and misleading information: Includes taking entrepreneurs' past statements out of context or distorting their meaning; displaying search keyword suggestions or landing page results that contradict the facts; republishing false information that has already been authoritatively refuted or clarified; and disseminating information that conflicts with public statements issued by the enterprise or entrepreneur via their official accounts on major platforms.

Other categories: Includes content designed to incite conflict by pitting enterprises against one another; the aggregation and resurfacing of old news or negative information about enterprises; infringing content that the platform has previously addressed; comments regarding enterprises posted by bot accounts or paid astroturfing accounts; and information that smears or disparages enterprises and entrepreneurs in a manner that clearly violates public order and good morals.


source: https://www.cac.gov.cn/2026-09/18/c_1791396347229199.htm

>>2917679
its 5D chess you fucking glowie

>>2917679
>yes the chinese state will execute CEOs for fraud… but have you considered that people aren't allowed to photoshop dicks in their mouths like ina merica

>>2917679
not a reply to anything anon said btw, just completely changing the subject from deng's historical legacy in the 60s-90s to what china is doing today under xi jinping

>>2917679

>>2917821
>given how shitty my auto translator is, and how we have no idea of the context or real implementation of this, I'm gonna say you're just randomly fishing for reasons to whine about china without any actual grievance


Unique IPs: 19

[Return][Go to top] [Catalog] | [Home][Post a Reply]
Delete Post [ ]
[ home / rules / faq / search ] [ overboard / sfw / alt ] [ leftypol / edu / labor / siberia / lgbt / latam / hobby / tech / games / anime / music / draw / AKM / ufo / 420 ] [ meta ] [ wiki / shop / tv / tiktok / twitter / patreon ] [ GET / ref / marx / booru ]