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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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My friend keeps trying to say how The U.S. is Winning the Iran War, and using podcast clips from a former military soldier to somehow prove me wrong. Im going to fucking cry

Let him be. He just wants to believe.

How is the United States losing the Iran war?

>>2915173
By not achieving any of its objectives and having their inability to do so (or even sustain any sort of intense fighting) be exposed to the world.

>>2915173
Choosing to lose by not using nukes, this is their actual mindset

>>2915177
What objectives have they not achieved?
>inb4 no regime change
The United States isn’t seeking regime change in Iran.
>inb4 the Strait of Hormuz is still closed
Iran closing the Strait of Hormuz benefits American imperial objectives.
>inb4 nuclear weapons program still exists
Lol. Good one.

>>2915238
>The United States isn’t seeking regime change in Iran.
They did but backpedaled once they saw it wouldn't happen.
>Iran closing the Strait of Hormuz benefits American imperial objectives.
Suuure, that's why Trump was despearate to sign a half-assed peace plan in June to get away from the quagmire
>Lol. Good one.
It was already interrupted last year, this year's the program was a pretext, not an objective

>>2915286
>They did but backpedaled once they saw it wouldn't happen.
No, the United States had pretty much never cared about regime change in Iran.
>Suuure, that's why Trump was despearate to sign a half-assed peace plan in June to get away from the quagmire
Where is the quagmire? The Strait of Hormuz being closed puts the squeeze on the Gulf Arab monarchies, which aligns with current American imperial objectives.
>It was already interrupted last year, this year's the program was a pretext, not an objective
Iran doesn’t have a nuclear weapons program, retard.

File: 1789730456196-4.jpeg (79.04 KB, 1382x1501, IMG_7472.jpeg)

>>2915238
>pissed off precariat that can’t afford gas
>benefits stability in the core

>>2915306
Amerisharts can pay $10 a gallon for benzene and still won’t do shit because they are submissive little bitches. Maybe they’ll vote harder in the next election, do some feelgood activism, attend cringy protests, but that’s about it.
You retards didn’t do shit in 1929 and 2008, so why would 2026 be any different?
Actual cattle “people.”

>>2915317
shitwit troll

>>2915381
Have you tried writing to your local Congressman?

>>2915218
>>2915177
losing a war you never needed to start isnt really a big deal

>>2915434
lmao what, you're retarded

>>2915430
i'm cattle and cattle can't write. read your own posts

>>2915434
>set myself on fire
>fail to put the fire out
<well my failure to put the fire out isn't a really big deal since i didn't need to start it in the first place

>>2915317
backpedaled from
>high gas prices benefits you
to
>well you don't do anything about it because you're goycattle

>>2915618
High gas prices in the middle east do benefit the US government*, as they're the second place to go buy it if the gulf can't

>>2915622
shifted goalpost form
>high gas prices in the USA
to
>high gas prices in the middle east

>>2915624
High prices in the Usa have already been adressed (it doesn't matter since nobody will do anything about it)

>>2915317
your still one of us lol u not better than anyone else


>>2915618
>>high gas prices benefits you
When did I say this?
>>2915622
This isn't me btw.

The point of any war is to make money for weapons companies, and in that respect the US has literally never lost a war, in fact their interest would be to float a fake enemy to justify their contracts forever like the USSR, the PRC, or the IRI

>>2915694
>in fact their interest would be to float a fake enemy to justify their contracts forever like the USSR, the PRC, or the IRI
Finally an intelligent reply.

>Strait status is still closed
>Ansarallah on the verge of taking over all of Yemen
>Saudi pipelines out of commission for months
>Stations are out of diesel
>refineries are being shut down.
>IT'S 12D CHESS!
>AMERICA IS WINNING!!!11
Where in the hell is this delusional bullshit coming from? Is this the new shill talking point now that Barak Ravid got played out? It's like looking at Germany or Japan in 1945 and still thinking they can win the war.

>>2915724
Say it with me, MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX PROFITS, they don’t give a shit about the outcomes and they’re the ones in control of all politics

>>2915724
>stations are out of diesel
>one station in buttfuck Michigan is out

>>2915238
>The United States isn’t seeking regime change in Iran.
Cope. They very obviously were. Bibi sold them the war on the promise that the Islamic Republic would collapse. When the bombing started they called on the population to rise up and overthrow the government.
>Iran closing the Strait of Hormuz benefits American imperial objectives.
How?
>inb4 nuclear weapons program still exists
Iran wasn't building nuclear weapons, but even Western intelligence says that the bombing only set their program back by a few months at most.

>>2915735
>They very obviously were.
The United States has been "seeking" regime change in Iran for over 40 years. The US hasn't committed nearly enough resources to effectuate a "regime change" in Iran à la Iraq or Afghanistan. Nor has the US cultivated proxy forces in the same way it did in Syria, Libya, or the former Yugoslavia. Iran is a useful boogeyman to justify an American imperial presence in the Middle East, especially with the retirement of GWOT-era Sunni Wahhabi terrorism.
>How?
It's a thinly veiled pressure campaign designed to coerce the Gulf Arab monarchies, especially Saudi Arabia, into joining the Abraham Accords.
>Iran wasn't building nuclear weapons, but even Western intelligence says that the bombing only set their program back by a few months at most.
It's a red herring either way.

>>2915747
>The US hasn't committed nearly enough resources to effectuate a "regime change" in Iran à la Iraq or Afghanistan.
Yeah because that would require a ground invasion which is obviously futile since the US lacks the physical capability to occupy Iran. That doesn't mean they weren't aiming to overthrow the government. The model they had was more like Libya than Iraq, where US airstrikes would weaken the government enough for a popular uprising to topple it. They spoke about this openly early in the war.
>Iran is a useful boogeyman to justify an American imperial presence in the Middle East
Iran and the Axis of Resistance is by far the strongest forge opposing US domination of the Middle East. Toppling the Islamic Republic would give them more or less unchallenged dominance over not just Iran but Palestine, Lebanon, Iraq, and Yemen, i.e. the only countries not totally ruled by compradors and which have actively fought Israel.
>It's a thinly veiled pressure campaign designed to coerce the Gulf Arab monarchies, especially Saudi Arabia, into joining the Abraham Accords.
Those countries were already going to sign, this conflict has distrupted that process. There's also no evidence that the Americans have been pressuring the GCC countries to do this since the war started or that they would open the strait in exchange for their signing. Not to mention that Iran wouldn't open the strait unless the Americans met their demands which amount to US capitulation and withdrawal from the region.

>>2915749
>The model they had was more like Libya than Iraq, where US airstrikes would weaken the government enough for a popular uprising to topple it.
No, because the United States hasn't cultivated a proxy force in Iran akin to what happened in Libya.
>Iran and the Axis of Resistance is by far the strongest forge opposing US domination of the Middle East.
A few farts in the Gulf does not meaningfully oppose American hegemony in the Middle East. The United States is on track to achieving all of its political objectives in the Middle East since October 7. From the weakening of Hezbollah, the overthrow of Bashar al-Assad, and its de facto control over the Gaza Strip via the Board of Peace.
>Those countries were already going to sign, this conflict has distrupted that process.
No, Saudi Arabia's signature is conditional on the establishment of a Palestinian state.
>There's also no evidence that the Americans have been pressuring the GCC countries to do this since the war started or that they would open the strait in exchange for their signing.
Don't say silly things when you have Google in front of you.
>Not to mention that Iran wouldn't open the strait unless the Americans met their demands which amount to US capitulation and withdrawal from the region.
Which will never happen.

Did everyone here claim Syria was winning, or had won, until the day they collapsed?

>>2915873
To be fair, even Assad's enemies thought he won and were opening the door to normalization until he, well, suddenly lost.

>>2915886
>even Assad's enemies thought he won and were opening the door to normalization
Aside from Saudi Arabia, UAE, and other literal who Arab states, no they weren't lol. Certainly not the US which occupied half of Syria via the SDF, looting the oil and wheat. Not even mentioning the impoverishing sanctions that ruined any chance of reconstruction.
The Turkey thing is a meme. They just wanted to legitimize their occupation of Idlib.

>>2915756
>No, because the United States hasn't cultivated a proxy force in Iran akin to what happened in Libya.
Yes they have. They have the Kurds, Balochs, Arab separatists, Pahlavists, MEK, etc. all of which they've been cultivating for decades. In fact their proxy network in Iran was probably far more extensive than that in Libya.
>A few farts in the Gulf does not meaningfully oppose American hegemony in the Middle East.
Anon they've been forced to basically abandon the entire Persian Gulf. They're talking openly about the fact that they may not be able to reopen those bases even after the war.
>Don't say silly things when you have Google in front of you.
So then provide evidence. What is there to indicate that the Americans will end the war if the Saudis sign the Abraham accords? How would that mean anything when Iran could just keep the strait closed themselves?

>>2915901
>Aside from Saudi Arabia, UAE, and other literal who Arab states
Uyghur who do you think was funding arming and training Assad's opposition? Fucking Iceland? You literally just admitted his major enemies gave up on regime overthrow and were just as surprised as he was when he lost.

>>2915905
>Yes they have.
No, they haven't lmfao. Every 2 years, there's some gay, Arab Springe-esque color revolution in Iran, and the US never escalates it into anything. Not in the same way we saw in Libya or Syria.
>Anon they've been forced to basically abandon the entire Persian Gulf.
Get off the Twitter slopulism, no they have not. The US will never leave the Middle East.
>So then provide evidence.
Don't feel like it. Idc if you don't believe me, but you would know if you've been paying attention to the headlines.
>What is there to indicate that the Americans will end the war if the Saudis sign the Abraham accords?
I can't predict the future, but probably some type of status quo ante bellum. Both sides will claim victory. The US doesn't actually want regime change in Iran (just like it didn't want regime change in Iraq during the first Gulf War). It might when Iran has outlived its usefulness (same reason they collapsed Iraq, Yugoslavia, and pretty much every US adversary).
>>2915911
>who do you think was funding arming and training Assad's opposition
The US and Gulf states stopped arming those Islamic jihadists in 2017. The US shifted its support to the SDF which occupied eastern Syria, where Syria's wheat and oil is. Aside from Qatar (which never supported normalization), the Gulf states were on the sidelines by that point.

>>2915921 (me)
>Aside from Qatar (which never supported normalization), the Gulf states were on the sidelines by that point.
Really, they were always on the sidelines, as they get their marching orders from Washington. Turkey was a lot more influential, they're also a slave to the US–NATO block. Also, doesn't help that China and Russia are unreliable, dogshit allies.

>>2915921
>and the US never escalates it into anything. Not in the same way we saw in Libya or Syria.
Yeah because they're not capable of doing that. That doesn't mean it isn't their goal. Every president before orange retard knew the US didn't have the capabilities to topple Iran. He just let himself get talked into it by Bibi. This isn't a debate at this point. We have reports of what was actually said between the Americans and Israelis. The Israelis told Trump that it would be easy and the Iranian government would collapse with minimal pressure. Every US military adviser told Trump that the Israelis were full of shit and overselling, but he listened to Bibi instead.
>Get off the Twitter slopulism, no they have not.
Even Western MSM is admitting it.
https://defencesecurityasia.com/en/us-bases-uninhabitable-iran-missile-strikes-centcom-force-posture-2026-war/
https://www.newsweek.com/why-us-bases-persian-gulf-doomed-12135334
https://upolitics.com/news/u-s-has-probably-permanently-lost-15-gulf-bases-in-trumps-iran-war-retired-general-warns-conflict-has-become-strategic-disaster/
>Don't feel like it
Lol okay then.

>>2915945
Western MSM is lying about how “bad” it’s going for the US so they have an excuse to call up the draft and kill excess prolecattle against their fake enemies

>>2915924
Russia only pulled back on Syrian support because they were and are still getting their shit kicked in Ukraine. It became unfeasible for Russia to continue to support Assad as the Ukraine war dragged on. As for China China's only military alliance is with North Korea and they have no desire to stick their nose in the Middle East or really anywhere.
Even in the hypothetical scenario that China became hyper interventionist, just look at a map. Iran is far closer and they had major trouble delivering supplies to Syria due to Israeli air strikes. How the fuck would a China that barely spends anything on its military do better than Iran which is far closer and far better equipped? It was the Syrian people's job to defend their government and they deserted and swapped to Jolani. You can't blame any other country for that. If Assad was a good leader his military should not have simply collapsed so quickly. It's clear that the allegations of rampant corruption in the last years of the war had more than a grain of truth.

>>2915945
>Yeah because they're not capable of doing that.
Says who? They haven't done it, therefore they can't is unfalsifiable. Besides, the Iranian state is deeply unpopular; more unpopular than Assad or Gaddafi ever were. Turnout for elections are at record lows. Most people don't care about the theocracy, they're upset that they're starving (they blame their government rather than the sanctions). The economy is basically bankrupt, it lost one of its most critical allies in Assad, and Hezbollah has been severely weakened (we may finally see a Lebanon–Israel agreement soon) with no land connection to Iran. Obviously this doesn't mean regime change is inevitable, but the Iranian govt isn't as resilient as you say it is.
Also, it's not even true. The US has successfully backed Sunni and minority (Kurds, Azeri, Baluchi) groups that carry out deadly terrorist attacks in the 2000s–2010s. So, the US is definitely capable.
> He just let himself get talked into it by Bibi. This isn't a debate at this point. We have reports of what was actually said between the Americans and Israelis. The Israelis told Trump that it would be easy and the Iranian government would collapse with minimal pressure.
More slopulist memes. No, the Israeli Govt has zero influence over the United States. Israel is a vassal state of America, almost entirely dependent on it. Israel isn't even allowed to wipe it's ass without approval from the United States.
Also, imagine thinking the President isn't just implementing policy that's put forth by nameless bureaucrats in the Pentagon and IC.
>Even Western MSM is admitting it.
<looks inside
>it’s just people's opinions.
Come back to me when Al Udeid looks like Gaza and there are hundreds of dead US soldiers.
>>2915956
>Russia only pulled back on Syrian support because they were and are still getting their shit kicked in Ukraine.
Partly, but this is largely another Twitter slopulist meme. The Astana Accords that Russia brokered with Turkey in 2020 legitimized Turkey’s military occupation of Idlib and parts of northern Syria. Assad was on the verge of victory over Julani and his CIA/NATO-backed jihadist ilk. That fucking deal did more damage than anything to do with Ukraine. It allowed Al-Nusra to strengthen itself with Turkish and US backing, while Syria proper starved.
>As for China China's only military alliance is with North Korea and they have no desire to stick their nose in the Middle East or really anywhere.
My point exactly. Outside of economics, China has basically no hard power to challenge the US. That's why they sat like little bitches when Pelosi went and got some backshots in Taiwan a few years back.
Also, according to some reports, China is actually pressuring Iran to make concessions regarding its position on the Strait. 10/10 ally.

>>2915956
>If Assad was a good leader his military should not have simply collapsed so quickly. It's clear that the allegations of rampant corruption in the last years of the war had more than a grain of truth.
Nice victim blaming btw

>>2915947
i hope they do it. a draft for an unpopular war started by a disliked pedophile who himself dodged the last draft 55 years ago might actually cause more revolutionary sentiments in the increasingly agitated population

>>2915996
No such thing, proles are cattle

>>2915996
Yeah, true. I remember the Great Socialist American Revolution after LBJ expanded the draft during the Vietnam War

>>2915967
>Says who?
Says the Israelis who said openly that the Mossad had been organizing opposition in Iran.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/mossad-urges-iranians-to-protest-regime-in-rare-public-farsi-message/ar-AA1Tegub
In addition, the relationship between the US government and Iranian opposition like the MEK is well documented.
https://www.politico.com/news/2026/03/03/the-iranian-exile-group-that-played-washington-for-this-moment-00808052
>Hezbollah has been severely weakened
Yeah they're so weak that they fought the IDF to a standstill on the ground. This is also how the 2006 war ended, which is widely regarded as an Israeli defeat.
https://www.france24.com/en/stalemate-in-lebanon-hezbollah-justifies-weapons-citing-israeli-occupation-and-ongoing-attacks
>Israel is a vassal state of America, almost entirely dependent on it.
I never suggested otherwise. What I said was that Bibi convinced Trump that regime change was possible, against the advice of American analysts. This is well documented.
https://time.com/7295726/netanyahu-trump-israel-iran-nuclear-strikes/
>it’s just people's opinions.
Yeah the opinions of US military officers and intelligence personnel. It's also corroborated by the damage reports recently released, plus the fact that all the recent strikes against US targets have been in Jordan rather than Iraq and the Gulf. The Pentagon also announced a complete withdrawal from Iraq.
https://apnews.com/article/iraq-trump-islamic-state-group-military-45e64c99d07939951c86308f95dd02ef

>>2916032
>Says the Israelis who said openly that the Mossad had been organizing opposition in Iran.
>https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/mossad-urges-iranians-to-protest-regime-in-rare-public-farsi-message/ar-AA1Tegub
<opens link
>"On Monday, the Mossad used its Twitter account in Farsi to encourage Iranians to protest against the Iranian regime, telling them that it will join them during the demonstrations."
You cannot be serious JFL
And why should their word be taken uncritically? Also, backing color revolutions ≠ wanting to overthrow the government.
>In addition, the relationship between the US government and Iranian opposition like the MEK is well documented.
Yes, the US has cultivated assets in Iran. I never denied this. In fact, I explicitly mentioned this in my last reply: "The US has successfully backed Sunni and minority (Kurds, Azeri, Baluchi) groups that carry out deadly terrorist attacks in the 2000s–2010s." The US cultivates subversives in all countries, even the countries they are ostensibly allied with. Cultivating assets does not automatically mean you wish to overthrow the government. For example, the US National Endowment for Democracy, the main CIA front used to organize color revolutions, funds "civil society" organization in Saudi Arabia, almost all of whom are in opposition to the monarchical regime there. Does that mean the US is seeking to overthrow the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia? No, obviously not.
>Yeah they're so weak that they fought the IDF to a standstill on the ground.
uyghur, what are you talking about? Hezbollah is objectively weaker than they were before October 7, 2023. Entire leadership killed, including their most influential secretary-general; weapons stockpiles depleted or destroyed; a new hostile regime in Syria that has severed land supply routes; increased pressure from the Lebanese Govt. to disarm; and more.
>I never suggested otherwise.
<next sentence
>suggests otherwise
I don't care what interpretative journalistic sources have said, almost all of whom rely on "anonymous sources" to substantiate their claims. All news media in the United States is subservient to the Pentagon and CIA, as well as their own capital interests. There is a concerted effort to scapegoat Israel in order to absolve the United States from its imperial crimes. This whole ZOG-esque narrative that Netanyahu duped Trump is part of this effort. It's always somebody else's fault when Amerisharts look bad. Much of American media is STILL making excuses for why they went to war in Iraq: bad intelligence, dumb administration, 9/11 paranoia, Israel, etc.
>Yeah the opinions of US military officers and intelligence personnel.
How does that change anything?
>It's also corroborated by the damage reports recently released
I'm assuming you're referring to those pictures released by ABC a few days ago. I've seen them. The pictures don't look too bad IMO. A few buildings busted, as well as some destroyed airplanes and tents. It certainly pales in comparison to the annihilation of the Gaza Strip, Lebanon, or even Iran itself.
This is another thing. Because labor aristocracy tendencies are so entrenched in Western and American society, its people are highly sensitive to disruption, no matter how marginal that disruption objectively is. This explains the alarmist narrative among the general public that the US is "losing" to Iran; they perceive a "loss" because they're paying more for benzene or other commodities. And because this labor aristocratic society does not feel the same level of immiseration relative to the rest of the world, it cannot stomach military casualties compared to a society that has much less to lose. Only 18 American soldiers have been killed in this conflict, and Amerisharts act like the sky is falling down as if hundred of thousands of Arabs and Iranians weren't killed by American imperialism. So how can you objectively say the US is "losing" based on a relative feeling? The US has objectively inflicted on Iran more economic and military destruction, death, and destabilization than vice-versa. If we're measuring sheer destruction, then US is clearly "winning," so I don't see any point in invoking these things. We have to look at geopolitical objectives, and I think the United States' objectives are gradually being fulfilled (coercing the Gulf States into joining the Abraham Accords), although it's still premature to make a definitive statement.
>recent strikes against US targets have been in Jordan rather than Iraq and the Gulf
Iranian drone/missile targets have overwhelmingly been in the Gulf.
>The Pentagon also announced a complete withdrawal from Iraq.
Did you even read your own link? This has nothing to do with the conflict.
<The Pentagon said in a subsequent statement that it was reaffirming a 2024 agreement with Iraq to end its mission against IS fighters. Many of the U.S. troops still serving in Iraq at the time of the deal, which was made during the Biden administration, already have departed.
<After IS lost its hold on the territory it once claimed, coalition military operations ended in 2021. The U.S. had maintained about 2,500 troops in Iraq for training and to conduct partnered counter-IS operations with Iraq’s military. Many have withdrawn since the 2024 agreement to end the mission, with just a small contingent of military advisers and others still remaining in Iraq.

>>2915999
why do you come here

>>2916000
they had to get rid of the draft because people started killing their officers

>>2916163
Yeah, but that's just because most draftees were lumpen retards and would frag their CO

>>2916170
>killing your masters is lumpen
then i guess lumpen are based

>>2916181
Violence without consciousness achieves nothing. Lumpen violence is precisely that.

>>2915238
$10 gas = line go up = america win = america #1 whooo baby

>>2916294
uhhhhh fragging is le BAD, actually!!!11111!! stupid prole adventurism!!11!!

>>2916336
This. Never shoot your commanding NATO officer, my fellow leftists. It is um anti worker to rebel or something.

jeff bliss the proto-houdinian

>>2916372
All leftist infighting is like who can out-schizo-retard who. Do you know how they fight? They're like, "actually you're the glowie and I'm the revolutionary," another is like "no-no-no, I'm the revolutionary and you're the glowie," and then a guy goes "YOU'RE ALL GLOWIES, THE CIA CONTROLS ALL OF THIS."

>>2916294
define lumpen


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