Genuinely what would have even changed, internal policy- wise if he had taken power instead of Stalin?
How would the lives of ordinary soviet citizens and the ones in the (presumedly) soon to be liberated areas be different? How would the state function under his rule? What makes him so different that even to this day he has followers ready to die for his ideas? Sorry for being a theorylet, I just find the whole Trotsky-Stalin affair to be confusing and pointless.
In his book The Revolution Betrayed, he bemoans the fact that Bukharin as a right-deviationist was having persuasion over Stalin's economic policies, which Trotsky (as leader of the posthomous Left Opposition) saw as being too friendly to markets. So, Trotsky would have sought to end commodity production in the USSR completely, which as we see from Stalin's own writings, was a perennial feature.
Its a complicated question, and one worthy of asking. Ideologically, most Trotskyists believe that a revolution of the working class can most effectively happen in an already industrialized nation, where the infrastructure of production is already in place; and can be downsized or reappropriated more effectively. Not to mention globalization of the revolution, which is distinct from the imperial ambitions of Stalin and later Soviet Realpolitik.
Then there is commodity production. Commodities are goods or services specifically created for profit and market surplus, they shouldnt exist under a communist mode of production because there are no market exchanges.
Now in practice, Trotsky wouldnt have eliminated the production of "commodities" immediately, that would be unpractical (and further reinforces the need for an already industrialized base). The goal is that commodities would cease to be so because a centrally planned economy is unfit for markets, and commodities would no longer be produced for profit.
also Stalin was a Georgian and we dont like those
>>2915934>The goal is that commodities would cease to be so because a centrally planned economy is unfit for markets, and commodities would no longer be produced for profit.Care to elaborate?
Not much. USSR would still be the same state-capitalist shithole, but even more imperialist. Permanent revolution = permanent imperialism
Would probably be better on foreign policy and probably wouldn't kill as many communists but I doubt economic policy would be much different
Trotsky would have attempted to invade Germany through Poland without asking for permission first like Stalin if Hitler takes power. Uyghur doesn't know how to take a breather he's just all aggro all the time. Either Trotsky would pull off the greatest victory in European history and successfully usher in world communism, or he would get bogged down in endless fighting until some conservatives (conservative in the sense of cautious, not the political term) in the USSR couped him to try to find a peace.
>>2915941Red colonialism = Based, it's that simple
>>2915961Permanent revolution is the way to go bro
>>2915926>just end commodity production while there is still a world market you need imports fromThe pure socialists' ideological anticipations remain untainted by existing practice. They do not explain how the manifold functions of a revolutionary society would be organized, how external attack and internal sabotage would be thwarted, how bureaucracy would be avoided, scarce resources allocated, policy differences settled, priorities set, and production and distribution conducted. Instead, they offer vague statements about how the workers themselves will directly own and control the means of production and will arrive at their own solutions through creative struggle. No surprise then that the pure socialists support every revolution except the ones that succeed.
- Michael Parenti, Blackshirts and Reds: Rational Fascism and the Overthrow of Communism, 1997
>Genuinely what would have even changed
we would all be living in a futuristic communist utopia right now if he had won, cucktalin ruined everything
He was in favor of a decentralized planned economy, that could had helped USSR economy in the long run, also, he was in favor of spreading socialism across Europe, that could go both ways in my opinion.
>>2916255
yeah nafo made stalin slaughter his fellow communists and concede to the west after ww2.
>>2916262real communists build israels and cry when FDR died you dumb nafoid
>>2916281Actually real communism is when you purge your revolutionary comrades so you can export grain to Westoid states while the proletariat starve to death and then you sign treaties with Hitler only for Hitler to outsmart you and invades so then you cry to Westoids for help so Westoids help you win the war you almost fumbled, and then to repay the world you establish the state of Israel and create a future US vassal state, and then you die marinating in your own poopoo and peepee
>>2916291Hmmm… yeah D final answer
>>2916291>muh holodomor>muh molotov ribbentrop>muh lend lease won the warwhy do leftKKKoms repeat every made up lie that was debunked decades ago?
Do Stalinoids have even a reasonal explanation of why someone like Kruschev
>>2916530why would you expect anything rational from "people" who think producing commodities to help develop Israel is communism?
Considering he wanted to march on Berlin very soon it is safe to say that the USSR wouldve become a pariah state similar to the third reich had Trotsky came to power.
>>2916530Stalin: Ahhh halp me Westoids, Hitler dun invaded and we need 5 gorillion tons of equipment and food. Also Am Yisrael Chai :3
Average Khrushchev subplot:
>>2916561>Grover FurrNo even Westoid bourgeois historians will deny the holodomor, lend lease winning WW2, and other myths.
>>2916617Stalinoids: NOOO WE NEVER NEEDED WESTERN AID!!!!! WEHRABOO COPE!!!!!!
The Soviets privately: uygha heil FDR
>>2916563it was constantly targeted by imperialists anyways
>>2916634Nope. Btw the author who wrote this study who admitted the Soviets would have won without Lend-Lease was an American military historian who fought against Vietnam and was anti-Communist.
This is just proof that leftKKKoms know literally nothing and just repeat retarded nonsense from the mainstream. Even anti-Communist American military officials will admit the Soviets would have won without Lend-Lease.
>>2916667Stalinoids: Ahhh, Westoid bourgie historians be spreading capitalist propaganda n shieet
Khrushchev, Zhukov, Stalin: uygha we was cooked without Lend-Lease
Also Stalinoids: NOOOO LOOK AT WHAT THIS HECKIN BOURGIE HISTORIAN WROTE!!!!
>>2916672>Nooo don't listen to military researchers with actual statistics and analysis of Soviet production, you have to look at this random piece of fiction written by a defector insteadIf it was really Khrushchev's "memoirs" it would have been written in Russian instead. Why is there no Russian version of this? Because the author claims that actually those memoirs were reconstructed from audio tape recordings. And where are those audio tape recordings? Nowhere to be found because they don't fucking exist and he made the whole thing up so he could get American citizenship.
You're so credulous that you probably believe Iran is 2 weeks away from a nuclear bomb.
>>2916686its so meta that the parody actually goes for soyjaks, you people just cant help yourselves
>>2916692zhukov claimed the Land lease only gave 3%¨and was bought with soviet money, don't know where you toke this for the narrative that the west wuz kangs stalin is le bad that you trying to push here.
>>2916711Yeah in his heavily censored and state curated memoirs
>>2916711>zhukov claimed the Land lease only gave 3%>Land LeaseLeast ESL Stalinoid.
>>2916719Yeah, lmfao. Soviet censors also just made shit up and inserted them into the memoirs. For example, they added a whole paragraph about Zhukov trying to meet with Brezhnev, who was fighting on the front lines. Except none of it ever happened.
>>2916686hello, based department?
In his own words, he saw Russia and her people as a “desert of white negros”, to be slaughtered and forced into chattel slavery for the Zionist cause. Had he managed a successful coup he would immediately get to work at that, collaborating with Nazi Germany and the Zionist lobby to turn much of the Soviet Union into a glorified prison colony for the Third Reich, Generalplan Ost would have been fully achieved with minimal resistance and Trotsky and his collaborators could LARP as “true revolutionaries” from a rump Siberian state
>>2916808Fake quote from the 90s. The rest of the post is mainstream Russian conspirology, like Stalin defended Russia from the Judeomason homosexual Adolf Shekelgruber (in reality, it was shit against piss). The only thing missing is Putinism.
Although obviously that post was written ironically
>>2916744>muh zionismStalin created Israel
>>2916843aura farming pics don't really make up for the years of animosity between lenin and trotsky prior to 1917 and the power struggle between stalin and trotsky after 1924. the "lenin and trotsky were bros!!!!" stems entirely from hyperfocusing no 1917-1924 while also taking it out of context.
>>2916581photoshop
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_will_bury_youinb4
>dats da joke>its obvious>wut r u autistic teehee >>2916843because they hate communism
>>2916634wow, you mean when the Soviets were trying hard to push Peaceful Co-existence, they rhetorically used and exaggerated important historic Soviet-US Cooperation?
>>2916868Lenin wasn't right on everything and neither was Trotsky. He understood socialism much better than Stalin and his clique though. The USSR under Stalin pretty much took on an entirely nationalist foreign and domestic policy which imo doomed them later on.
>>2916900They said it in private to themselves though
>>2916902If socialism in country wasn't bad enough stalin turned the ussr into a nationalist project that didnt seek co-operation with other communist states but rather to make them vassal and subservient to its policy
>>2916905Yeah, pretty much every country neighboring the Soviet Union (besides surprisingly, China post-WW2) during the Stalin period experienced a foreign policy that did everything possible to portray socialism as a national security threat. It was pretty tragic.
>>2916913Because it was as most communist parties were blind supporters and followers of the ussr and would let it dictate their policy.
It made the people in most countries see communists as a fifth column for a foreign country really hurting socialist movements.
They didnt do it china because china was simply too big and once industrialized too powerful to ever really become an vassal of the ussr.
>>2915918he not that bad owo :^)
>>2915918Look at the state of his followers today and it should give you some idea of the kind of shit show the Soviet Union would have degenerated into had Trotsky ascended to power.
>>2916952that's a weak argument. not because trotsky is actually le based but because followers often distort things. like does the average "Christian" conservative MIGAcuck in America actually follow the example of Jesus? No.
>>2915918in practice they would have likely ended up pretty much identical in every way, because no matter what people think, the USSR was not ruled by a single man, and most of the decisions made were simply the most logical from a communist perspective
>>2916902>He understood socialism much better than Stalin and his clique thoughlmao nope, delusional
>>2916964>the USSR was not ruled by a single mantrue
> and most of the decisions made were simply the most logical from a communist perspectiveit was more about pragmatism and changing events. upon seizing power, theoretical anticipations of how things "should" work took a back seat to managing a society ravaged by, ww1, spanish flu, civil war, interwar economic crises, crop failures, the rise of fascism, etc.
>>2916964>the USSR was not ruled by a single manalso, there was nevertheless a lot of politicking and backstabbing between party members. it was not unusual for example to send someone off on a wild goose chase to guarantee their absence at an important meeting or vote, or to smear this or that group as essentially menshevik or even reactionary over what were very small disagrements on policy implementation.
>>2916968It was ruled by the bureaucracy
>>2917131Yes, that's called democracy
>>2917141Democracy is nothing but demagoguery and mass psychic manipulation. I spit on democracy, I spit on democrats.
>>2916966Trotsky accurately prediced the ussr would fall and sell out to capitalism while stalin didnt.
>>2917146he predicted the evil stalinist "bureacuracy" (which he himself was part of) would turn into the new capitalists
actually counterrevolution came from the middle strata (the same middle managers and intelligentsia who were being repressed in the great purge etc, that trots shed crocodile tears for)
Nazis would have won WWII
>>2917213If anything, I think he would have been way more merciless with the denazification after the USSR won.
>>2915918The USSR would've conquered all of Europe to the Atlantic, would've collapsed in 1997 instead.
>>2917274>mercilessgermans living elsewhere were all deported back to Germany after the war and all the Nazis on the east sides got fucked,what could he have done more ?
>>2917274Trot supported half those nazis after he left the USSR
>>2915935Better than Jewish
>>2917190>he predicted the evil stalinist "bureacuracy" (which he himself was part of) would turn into the new capitalistsAnd he was right
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