Why are rightoids so obsessed with muh objective morality?
It was a major talking point of the 2000s culture wars between the Religious Right vs. liberals, namely the belief that the right-wing upheld the notion that there is an objective truth and an objective morality that stems from it, while liberals (and genuine leftists for that matter) were portrayed as staunch believers in moral relativism which they acquired through "worshipping" science and history in lieu of religion.
So how does this belief in objective moral truth fit in with the greater right-wing agenda? How does the exploiter class benefit from proles believing in objective morality?
232 posts and 27 image replies omitted.>>2921359>A good number of conservatives who favor religion favor religion purely for social utility and nothing elsethat's not the only thing they favor it for and probably not even the main thing, in my opinion what really draws them to religion is the convenient moral absolution it provides. unless a person is a genuine psychopath, which is extraordinarily rare and possibly not even a real thing at all, immoral behavior carries with it a tremendous burden of guilt and shame and remorse and social alienation. and religion, and ideology in general, provide a means to pass that burden off onto some external higher power and escape from personal accountability. it's in god's hands, i did it for the party or for the good of the country, etc. it's sort of like installing a convenient flip-flop switch in your brain that just cuts off your introspection and sense of self-awareness whenever you do something or want to do something that you know deep down to be wrong and would otherwise feel terrible about. religion doesn't necessarily have to be this way and it is possible for people to use religion as it was probably originally intended to be used, as a tool for navigating and understanding reality and holding oneself to account and being a better person, but a lot of people simply use religion as an excuse, as a soft option, as a means of evading reality; they don't see it as something where they have to put in the work and have self-discipline to participate in it, they see it as a get out of jail free card.
“Objective morality” is worthless. You don’t implement or build socialism on the basis of muh morality. Plus, moral fanaticism is where you get religious right fundamentalism.
i think the real problem isn't so much whether morality is objective or subjective, i think it's pretty plainly obvious that morality is relative like everything else in the world is and anyone can figure that out for themselves if they actually thought about it for a moment. i think the bigger problem is how people seem to think of morality as if it were just a performance, like something you wear and display like an article of clothing or perform in front of judges who hold up score cards, or they think of it as just a simplistic arbitrary ledger like in an rpg game where you have a morality meter that goes up or down every time you do an immoral or moral thing. they don't think of it as something real and pervasive and relational, like a causal force that effects things and changes them permanently, which is really what it is in my opinion. you're driving in your car and someone cuts you off at a red light and you get angry and call them a dumb fucking uyghur and your windows are up and nobody hears you say it, but it still has an effect. it's easier for you to say it now than it was before, you've crossed that line once so you know you can cross it again, you're a different person now. if you feel ashamed or surprised at yourself for saying it you might hold court with yourself and decide that it wasn't fair of you to disparage an entire group of people because of one shitty driver or do some introspection and try to figure out why you said it and maybe realize something about yourself that you weren't quite conscious of before, and then you'll be a different person again. or you might just chalk it up to a temporary moment of anger and put it out of your mind and move on, and now it's easier for you to think up excuses to absolve yourself of your behavior and you're a different person again. everything that happens in the universe alters the universe forever, that's just fundamental physics - why would the human brain be exempt from this? like, if we are going to stay firmly rooted in science and understand the human mind as a purely physical structure, a wrinkled blob of meat full of billions of neurons continously forming and reforming electrical pathways in a dynamic complex network full of thoughts and feelings and memories and habits and impulses, why would what happens inside that structure obey different laws than anything else does? why would there be creations and deletions and undos and dry runs and shortcuts in this wrinkled blob of meat when they are strictly forbidden in absolutely every other part of the universe?
People who believe in objective morality are more likely to take the status quo as a given and far less likely to revolt.
>>2925104Compared to his millennials loved The Grapes of Wrath, which is about the fuckery of capitalism.
>>2925104Where are you getting east of eden’s popularity numbers from?
>>2925505It’s fairly obvious if you look at social media trends.
>>2921058Zoomers would love Strauss’ moralism.
How much longer before Natural Right and History becomes the next “hot book” on TikTok?
>>2925510Algorithms do not prevent astroturfing, quite the contrary.
>>2933694Eugenics predates moral relativism by a lot.
>>2923343Moral relativism is self-defeating. Knocked down on day 1 of any 101 class.
>>2925510>muh social media trendsHorrible metric
Well both the neocon and Evangelical argument is that when a civilization loses its foundation for objective truth and objective morality it also loses its ability to distinguish between truth vs falsehood, good vs evil, wisdom vs foolishness, moral conviction vs personal preference, and genuine freedom vs intellectual/moral confusion. They think people become morally and intellectually vulnerable when they assume there is no universal truth or objective standard of goodness. Open-mindedness can inadvertently lead to passivity and moral indifference, and once people start abandoning objective truth they become more easily manipulated by nefarious forces.
So can Marxism fix this problem?
>>2950177>So can Marxism fix this problem?No but its philosophical foundation of materialism can help you with this. Youll just be disappointed to find out the universe is completely indifferent towards your vibes based moralism you use to enforce bourgeois social order.
>>2950231How do you prevent nihilism?
>>2919309>in the end kills the civilizationone of the most spooked posts i've ever read
>>2950557It's true. Relativism kills civilization, then whatever comes after adopts some kind of objective morality as a tool of rebuilding. Read Mao on liberalism.
>>2950231Materialism will do nothing to stop the lack of morality in modern society.
>>2950553I hate to say this, but if you are a politician, you will have to promote something objective and live it even if it's not actually true. This is why islam is on the rise in the west. They actually believe their stuff. Plus you need some magic or superstition because outside of neurotic autists, most normies hate scientists.
>>2950563Atheists have to promote Christianity or Islam to save Communism. There is no other way. Going atheist/anti-theist will only recreate capitalism through subconscious social darwinism. Why care about my fellow man when we are all monke?
>>2950177If lack of moral authority is the problem, why can’t Marxism serve as the moral authority?
>>2950568adopting foreign ideologies is a symptom of losing identity
>>2950568>why can’t Marxism serve as the moral authority?It can but only in specific cases and must be complimented by something more esoteric.
>>2950553You accept that your morals and values are not fundemental truths and keep going nonetheless.
>>2918874>morality is nothing more than an arbitrary a set of rulesIf it's arbitrary why are they so consistent?
>>2950177>can Marxism fix this problem?Marxism a symptom of the problem.
>>2950561>civilizationdefine this and tell me why it's "good" without resorting to idealism
>Read Mao on liberalism.i already know mao's a liberal
>>2950177>b- but what if i pick wrong?perfect encapsulation of moral obkektivists, intellectual cowards who make it everyone else's problem
>>2950177The amount of spook in this post is too damn high.
>>2920210couldn't moral relativism ultimately be more conducive to profit (hippydom complimenting freedom of choice marketing) than leftist oriented moral objectivism?
>>2951251How does leftism produce objective morality?
>>2951252"This is consistent with the socialist world we want to see." ←- moral
"This is inconsistent with the socialist world we want to see." ←- immoral
>>2950561opsec level; spook
>>2916538>Why are rightoids so obsessed with muh objective morality?Could have something to do with their rigid mental structures and inability to hold opposing viewpoints. They have lie to themselves about there being a objective morality in order for them to be able to function.
>>2951400So by what standard are you using to determine whether or not something is "consistent" with socialism? Sounds like you're simply invoking personal preference.
>>2951453In neuro-affirming language, we call this having a "strong sense of justice" or "justice sensitivity."
>>2951460My abilities are non-existant and my needs are enourmous
>>2951513Being too online will do that to you
>>2916538>why are rightoids so obsessed with muh objective morality?objective morality as defined by the holy bible, interpreted by conservative evangelical churches. try telling them that rational objective ethics demand lgbt rights or socialism.
>>2916538I've noticed that the more nihilist transgressive side of the right has better meme game. 4chan got shit when it was taken over by moralists. It's kind of like Christian rock. I think that objective morality is mostly just a sadistic excuse to clamp down on fun and make the proles suffer.
>>2953492>rational objective ethics demand lgbt rights or socialism.How do you prove this?
>>2921598(You)r post provides a good description of the difference between believing in God because you want to not feel guilty and go to heaven, versus believing in God because you sincerely love Him and wish to attain metanoia in cooperation with His grace. Much ink has been poured elucidating this difference, and since this is a literate board, I'd like to present (you) with a full quotation from the Enchiridion of Counsels written by St. Nicodemus the Hagiorite on the topic:
"All the saved ones may be divided into six ranks and orders. And the first rank is when someone for the fear of God and hell, keeps some of the divine commandments like a slave; and the second rank is when someone keeps the Master's commandments for the reward of the kingdom of the heavens, as a paid servant; the third rank is when someone keeps the Lord's commandments and only for the sake of God's love, as a friend; and the fourth and superior rank is when someone reaches the point of becoming a son or daughter of God according to grace to whom the inheritance of the kingdom of God is given according to the apostolic saying, "If a son, then an inheritor of God" (Gal 4:7). The fifth and higher rank is when someone becomes worthy to become a brother of Christ, and for this brotherhood, becomes with Christ, an inheritor of the kingdom of God, in accordance with the Apostles' saying, "The inheritors of God, but also co-inheritors with Christ" (Rom 8:17). Most high of all the ranks is when someone becomes worthy to become mother of Christ in accordance with the word of Christ Himself, who said, "Here are my mother and my brothers. Whoever does the will of my heavenly Father is my brother, my sister, my mother" (Mt 12:49-50)."
Source:
https://archive.org/details/handbookofspirit0000nico/page/38/mode/2upThere are older writings in this same tradition from such spiritual luminaries as SS. John Cassian and Gregory of Nyssa.
>they don't see it as something where they have to put in the work and have self-discipline to participate in it, they see it as a get out of jail free card.That is the base mindset which all faithful people strive to supersede.
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