https://paulcockshott.wordpress.com/2026/10/04/on-my-expulsion-from-the-communist-party-of-britain/PAUL COCKSHOTT EXPELLED FROM THE COMMUNIST PARTY OF GREAT BRITAIN FOR "ANTISEMITISM" AMONG OTHER THINGSQuote:
The basis for this seems to have been that I retweeted commentary by Craig Murray and David Miller about the arson that was committed against a group of ambulances in London that belonged to a Jewish community charity. As readers may recall, the media and the Government immediately described the arson as evidence of growing antisemitism and suggested that it was probably part of a conspiracy directed by the Iranian Government. Security Minister Dan Jarvis told Parliament: “The House will be aware that the police are treating this arson attack as an antisemitic hate crime.” Prime Minister Keir Starmer described it as: “a horrific antisemitic attack”. Home Secretary Shabana Mahmood referred to it as an: “Iranian-linked firebomb attack” and an “abhorrent crime”. By July the Government’s language became considerably stronger. Foreign Secretary Yvette Cooper announced sanctions on an Iran-linked group and stated that the organisation had: “publicly claimed responsibility” for attacks including “the antisemitic arson attack on four Hatzola ambulances in Golders Green in March” The same statement further asserted: “members of Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps Qods Force … almost certainly directed IMCR attacks across Europe.” You may recall that clause 15 of the CP’s Social Media Protocol states that members should not promote antisemitic conspiracy theories or conspiracy theories based on unverifiable claims. It is evident that a conspiracy took place because, in law, a conspiracy is an agreement between two or more people to commit a criminal offence. Arson is a crime, and three people were filmed setting fire to the vehicles. The existence of a conspiracy is therefore not unverifiable. What remained unverified was any claim about the perpetrators’ motivation, organisation, or links to a specific foreign government. At the time, responsibility for the attack remained a matter of public dispute. Government ministers advanced one interpretation of the evidence. Craig Murray advanced another. Reposting a journalist who questions a government interpretation of events is not the same thing as promoting antisemitism. The commentary I retweeted by Craig Murray included links to an article he had published casting serious doubt upon the government’s version of what had happened. The social media rules do not prohibit communists from drawing attention to articles by journalists that question the positions taken by His Majesty’s Government. Whether the conspiracy theory promoted by the Home Secretary is correct is a matter of legitimate public debate. The panel asserted that certain reposted material constituted antisemitism. This assertion is not supported by evidence and is inconsistent with established legal standards. Another repost concerned commentary by Professor David Miller. The panel treated Miller’s statement as inherently antisemitic. Professor Miller had been dismissed by the University of Bristol following allegations made by several organisations regarded as sympathetic to Israel. Two independent investigations reportedly concluded that Miller had no case to answer on allegations of antisemitism. The Employment Tribunal subsequently ruled that his anti-Zionist beliefs were protected under the Equality Act. The investigatory panel nevertheless treated quotations from Miller as self-evidently antisemitic. In Miller v University of Bristol (Employment Tribunal, 2023), the Tribunal held: Anti‑Zionism is a protected philosophical belief under the Equality Act 2010. Criticism of Zionism, Zionist organisations, or the political influence of Zionist groups is not antisemitism. Miller’s anti‑Zionist arguments were rational, coherent, and lawful. Disciplinary action based on anti‑Zionist political speech is unlawful. It follows that reposting legally protected political speech cannot in itself constitute antisemitism; nor can reposting legally protected anti-Zionist political speech in itself constitute misconduct. The panel appears to have given credence to allegations against Professor Miller that were subsequently found, through repeated investigatory processes, to be unfounded. It then transferred the unjustified taint associated with his writings to me for quoting him. I hope the "other things" is the transphobia
If you like cybercommunism just read Stafford Beer
>>2926277>liberal gets kicked out of the liberal partyThanks for the Breaking News anon.
>>2926277The CPB is the most cringe "communist" party in the world, a gang of boomer TERFs emulating the Labour party but afraid that if they joined Labour they might actually be adjacent to power. Their actions make more sense when understood by the polling positions of their age demographic (reactionary slop) than of any ideological content. Cockshott fit right in with their slop on social issues - until now, apparently!
Lie down with dogs… Wait, scratch that, I've met dogs more Marxist than the CPB.
>>2926311Beer just washes the bourgeois cybernetics of Ashby. study actual control theory. only on the basis of actual control theory can communist cybernetics be constructed
Fascinating how evey single center-left to far-left party in the UK is just the same clique of boomer radfems that worship jews and want trans appartheid. There is no other politics. Hopefully the greens new ruling shakes rhings up a bit.
>Support for the American Communist Party
Hazsisters…
It was actually because he supported the ACP and the CPB did not want that shit in their party (not saying they are any better)
>>2926277Who gives a fuck about bong things. This geriatric motherfucker would probably die tomorrow and nobody would care.
>>2926368I honestly thought this thread was announcing his death at first.
>>2926277Which CPGB are we talking about? The retarded one (ML), or the less retarded one (PCC)?
>dickblast used to be the golden boy of /leftypol/
>now he is denounced as a transphobic geriatric loser who can go die
How the mighty have fallen. /leftypol/ will never forgive anybody who associates with Haz and the ACP in a non-hostile manner.
>>2926404I mean did he really thought he wouldnt get cancelled by his radfem-marxist party for being an moid and not respecting jewish feelings enough? That have little to do with haz, who doesnt even exist anymore, but with cockshott not being able to 2+2.
>>2926410Are radfems known to be especially philosemitic? If anything, Cockshott is on their level with this takes about transgenderism and gay men.
>haz doesn't exist anymore?? The ACP (=Haz) is quite visible in the onlíne sphere.
>>2926465dworkin was correct about a lot of things, thobeit
>>2926467But not about caloric intake unfortunately.
>>2926467Like what? Israelis being special feminist kings and arabs being mindless savages? I wouldn't call that correct
>>2926463>Are radfems known to be especially philosemitic?Yeah.
>The ACP (=Haz) is quite visible in the onlíne sphere.They stopped being artificialy boosted long ago and any leftist lewbie garner more likes and attention than them.
>>2926469Proud to have you here Ms Paglia.
>zionist
>transphobic
>social democratic
Genuinely who is this party for? How do they sustain themselves? What the fuck is wrong with the British Isles?
CPB are social reactionary boomers and economically stand somewhere between social democracy and straight up liberalism.
Cockshott also has some weird ass issues with gay and LGBT people existing.
Nothing of value was lost.
>>2926505There average member is about 65 years old at this point and holds more or less identical socio-economic views to a centrist Zionist labour MP.
There is no reason for it to exist under such conditions, hence why it's dying.
“C”PB like most western “communist” parties are revisionist social fascists. Had Cockshott been kicked out of an actual communist party like the CPGB-ML that might be notable
The cpb is a joke party composed of like 10 retarded boomers who gives a shit
>>2926505What makes them transphobic? Are trans people not allowed in the party?
>banned for antisemitism
good
>>2926505>zionist>social-democraticsounds like the average dengoid here would fit perfectly
>>2926404If you're interested in economic planning there's way better stuff from the 1970s which no one reads (here's one, Stalin liked him). They just want these cranks instead. Really it's that the left needs a crankocide.
>>2926470Always found Dworkin really alien. Maybe it's a gay guy thing. Hard for me to say she's "wrong" in general because it's like reading Martians talking about sex. However I didn't agree that Palestinian female suicide bombers must have been raped by Palestinian men and that's why they blew themselves up. A friend of mine was into her for awhile and I was like idgi and he was like well when gay men have sex they rape each other too. Hmm not sure about that.
>>2926515They've written statements in support of TERF and socially conservative anti-trans groups, they've written in support of government decisions to discriminate against and ban trans people from single sex spaces, they've stated trans identity is inherently individualist and capitalist, that identity as a man or woman is based on biological sexual characteristics alone, and in their newspaper they've posted comic strips where the joke is just saying trans people are predators (literally portraying a trans woman as a crocodile who will kill and eat "real women™")
>>2926526Damn that's pretty crazy. I mean I personally lean a bit more towards radfemism, I don't really buy the gender identity is some internal subjective feeling or whatever and I do find it all to be a bit absurd. To me I don't see a difference between someone trying to be transracial for instance and being transgender, but I guess people don't have racial dysphoria so idk.
All in all it's not that important imo, mostly I just don't care what people "identify" as. This shit is some straight up hatespeech cartoon tho, you'd expect from a Ben Garrison type, wild stuff
What is it with the brits? Why is this trans thing such a big deal for them in particular? Is it just the effect of living on an island?
>>2926311Stafford Beer was Malthusian thoughever.
>>2926525Radfems are to feminism what posadists are to communism
>>2926525>>2926470>>2926467>>29264653 women walk into a bar, a girlboss, a communist, and a dworkinite. they begin discussing whether men should change diapers.
"moids should change 0% of diapers" said the dworkinite, "because moids are all rapists and not to be trusted around children"
"moids should change 100% of the diapers actually" said the girlboss, "because they owe reparations from centuries of patriarchy, and also I have a career to focus on"
"men hold up half the sky and should do their half" said the communist.
The two others then shot her for being a filthy centrist.
>>2926540Who said anything about China?
>>2926545>the phrase dengoids has nothing to do with chinaif you say so
>>2926533>>2926526ok so paul cockshott is transphobic. maybe they should have kicked him out for that and left it at that, but "antisemitism" …
come on now… i've seen way more actual antisemitism on here (as in unironic "da jooz did it all", not mere textbook anti-imperialism/antizionism)
so what i got from this thread is that paul cockshott was kicked out of his transphobic party for being transphobic, and that he was kicked out of his zionist party for being antizionist (slandered as "antisemitic"). The latter claim makes sense, the former claim does not.
>>2926367no it was for several reasons including the ACP shit and if it were only for that they wouldn't have contrived several more reasons including "antisemitism" (textbook antizionism)
>>2926556I think it's the party that has a transphobic bent anon, not Cockshot in particular.
The antisemitism accusation does seem quite retarded, I guess that party has capitulated to zionist/liberal sensibilities
>>2926367From his article: (I am not fixing the newlines in order to quote format it)
American Communist Party
The panel alleged that I engaged in “factionalism” by supporting or assisting the American Communist Party (ACP). This allegation is unsupported by evidence and is based on a mischaracterisation of my actions.
The facts are as follows:
I have not organised or participated in organising any meeting involving the ACP. I stated clearly during the investigatory meeting:
“I was not involved in setting up any meeting.”
My only action was to write a single email to the Scottish Party office expressing disagreement with the cancellation of a proposed meeting. The email set out a political view about sectarianism among communist organisations internationally.
Expressing disagreement with a decision in a private letter to those responsible for it is not factionalism.
The ACP does not operate in Britain and does not contest elections in Britain.
It is therefore not in competition with the Communist Party of Britain, and contact with it cannot constitute factional activity under any reasonable interpretation of Party rules. International engagement with left-wing organisations is normal and longstanding. I have spoken at events in Belgium, Germany, China, Ecuador, Venezuela and Vietnam organised by communists and socialists in those countries.
None of these engagements has ever been considered factional.
The panel provided no evidence of factional intent, organisation, or activity. No documentation, correspondence, or witness testimony was presented to substantiate the allegation.
The allegation therefore lacked any factual basis and did not meet the evidential threshold required for disciplinary action.
The investigation cited the fact that I had retweeted or liked tweets from the American Communist Party, and asked me if I supported them. I said of course I supported communists in other countries including America.
The investigation repeatedly treated expressions of support for the American Communist Party as though they alone constituted disciplinary misconduct.
No constitutional rule was identified prohibiting support for foreign communist organisations.
No Party rule was identified prohibiting attendance at meetings involving foreign communist organisations. Nor was it even alleged that I attended such meetings.
No Party rule was cited prohibiting the expression of opinions about foreign communist organisations.
The investigation assumed that favourable references to the ACP were disciplinary offences.
No rule establishing this proposition was produced.
The conclusion therefore cannot be derived from the rules cited.
>>2926561>doing less liberalism than liberals is… le bad!I guess I'm just too undialectical to get it
>>2926310It's the CP.B so no lol
>>2926563It's one amongst a list of anti-discrimination subjects party members are expected to uphold. I don't see this as pointing towards transphobia allegations in particular
>>2926564>The investigation assumed that favourable references to the ACP were disciplinary offencesThey're just like us fr!
>>2926565what party should we join. where is the real movement? or do you specialize in the ruthless criticism?
>>2926570hmmm so are you saying he was instead being racist or ableist or something. please.
>>2926573Idk, the whole suspension seems like bullshit to me personally. I'm just saying they (the transphobic party) did not specify that this was about transphobia in particular, nor does Cockshot seem to say that in his blogpost either
>>2926533I wonder how they square this cartoon with rule 2(c):
>Members should work for the removal of unfair discrimination based upon race, colour, sex, sexual orientation, gender reassignment, age, disability, marriage, civil partnership, pregnancy and maternity, religion or belief.like what constitutes the "removal" of "unfair discrimination" based upon "gender reassignment" and conversely, what constitutes the addition to it? does likening trans women to a literal predator (a crocodile) not add to unfair discrimination based upon gender reassignment? or perhaps they consider it fair discrimination?
>>2926562>I think it's the party that has a transphobic bent anon, not Cockshot in particularno the Cock man has also posted plenty of anti-trans texts, and also implied that male homosexuality is bourgeois
>>2926557this
>>2926525>However I didn't agree that Palestinian female suicide bombers must have been raped by Palestinian men and that's why they blew themselves up. dworkin said that? holy shit lmfao
>>2926522most such allegations these days are slandering anti-zionists
>>2926577>I wonder how they square this cartoon with rule 2(c):From the article that I got it from it seems they removed it when attention was brought to it and said it hadn't been approved. So I'm guessing whoever published that did receive disciplinary action of some kind
>no the Cock man has also posted plenty of anti-trans textsLike what?
>and also implied that male homosexuality is bourgeoisI don't think he's "implied" or said that
>>2926583>I don't think he's "implied" or said thatI'm like whatever (because he's a crank, total crank death) but I think he basically believes that and is also like muh tfr because gays don't have kids so therefore don't contribute to social reproduction. Yeah Paul the bigger problem is the heterosexuals aren't having kids.
>>2926525>The bulk of Lange's contributions to economics came during his American interlude of 1933–45. Despite being an ardent socialist, Lange deplored the Marxian labor theory of value because he was very much a believer in the neoclassical theory of price. In the history of economics, he is probably best known for his work On the Economic Theory of Socialism published in 1936, where he famously put Marxian economics and neoclassical economics together.this is the guy calling you a dengoid for liking cockshott btw
>>2926583>>no the Cock man has also posted plenty of anti-trans texts>Like what?look at his xitter account sometimes. or just the gender category on his blog
>I don't think he's "implied" or said thatjust watch his videos about the gays and it's there clear as day
This whole thing reeks of pettyness unironically, dont even get what that expulsion would achieve.
>>2926598"This whole thing smacks of transgender" I holler as I overturn my communist micro-sect's barbeque grill and turn the anniversary of the October Revolution into the October of Shit
>>2926599>"This whole thing smacks of transgender" I holler as I overturn my communist micro-sect's barbeque grill and turn the anniversary of the October Revolution into the October of Shitwtf are you talking about huh?
>>2926601except that the chinese model has nothing to do with that guy. he was part of the polish government: use poland as an example. cockshott also advocates for the use of markets, but unlike this lange guy he has an actual critique of them
but, of course, you won't use the poland of the 60s as an example because it was a failure, specially when compared to the other socialist countries of the region
>>2926597>the gender category in his blog? I don't see any transphobia
people got angry when he made the observation that, because there is a wage gap, gay male households have on average higher income than heterosexual households, which in turn have a higher average income than gay female households
people here are talking about fertility rates, but if you read his books he's very explicit about falling birth rates being a consequence of capitalist exploitation and material conditions: that having children is too expensive, jobs pay too little, and people are not incentivized to reproduce. he has made the observation that society needs not only material reproduction but also demographic reproduction to continue through time
so far, all the people that I have seen calling him homophobic have presented no evidence. their argument usually goes like
>he said gay couples can't get pregnant>therefore he's calling for the genocide of queer peoplehe's the least transphobic person in that party
>>2926590>but I think he basically believes that What makes you say that?
>>2926597>look at his xitter account sometimes. or just the gender category on his blogJust post some examples if it's so obvious, I don't see what you're talking about from scanning his twitter or his blog
>just watch his videos about the gays and it's there clear as dayIt's mostly about the genetic and social conditions that give rise to homosexual behavior. I don't see him say or "imply" anything about it being supposedly bourgeois.
Reminder that Cockshott was opposed to Irish liberation and Irish socialist movements that wanted to unify Ireland
Why does he support the British occupation? That's something else that people don't seem to ask enough.
>>2926612He said gay men are inherently upper class, bourgeois and capitalist - ie anti-revoltuionary. This was in 2017 btw.
>>2926621That doesn't sound like something he'd say. Source?
>>2926621yes, he then reinstated the draft, sunk a migrant ship, and declared women to be both bourgeois
and property. this all happened in 1995, for anyone curious
>>2926626Source for which claim in particular?
On the Ireland point he was literally a member of the British and Irish Communist Organisation (B&ICO) throughout the 70s, which existed solely to try to justify British occupation of Ireland from a socialist perspective
For the homophobia claim: here's a link to a blog post he made in 2017 that essentially boils down to the claim that LGBT people are inherently bourgeois and capitalist and can't be comrades.
https://paulcockshott.wordpress.com/2017/08/29/class-and-the-lgtb-lobby/>>2926629Sarcasm isn't an argument or evidence against any of this, it just makes you look butthurt and irrationally desperate to defend a specific individual
>>2926641>On the Ireland point he was literally a member of the British and Irish Communist Organisation (B&ICO) throughout the 70s, which existed solely to try to justify British occupation of Ireland from a socialist perspective Cockshott is just woke to the Hibernian Conspiracy
>>2926615I don't think his views about this are very important but I think he's a mechanical materialist (he has stated he doesn't like dialectics) and has to fit everything into this pre-constructed formula (which is also backwards, pseudo-scientific). A problem with mechanical materialism is that it treats societies like a fine-tuned Newtonian clock where everything is supposed to act like a machine with a fixed function. So in this formula, if reproduction is a material requirement of society (true) then homosexuality also has to have a function, but since they don't have kids very often the function must be bourgeois and gays are parasites who can only exist in capitalism, and capitalism gives rise to extreme individualism and atomisation so therefore homosexuals have an objective interest in opposing socialism. Also it's interesting to think about how that fits into his views on planning of reproductive labor in socialism.
>>2926641>that essentially boils down to the claim that LGBT people are inherently bourgeois and capitalist and can't be comradesBut that's not what the post essentially boils down to. He's talking about the economic basis of the gay marriage movement, not some innate quality of homosexuals. He's not even talking about LBT people, just male homosexual partnership for the most part lol
<I will focus on the mean class position of homosexual men, and show that this puts them in the top 10% of the population, and that this economic position is not incidental, but is closely connected with the gay male mode of life. Note the specificity, it does not apply to Lesbians.Here's the conclusion:
>The conclusion from the evidence so far is that the gay marriage movement is fundamentally conservative, aimed at the securing of relatively privileged property ownership and it makes the relative position of women in society slightly worse. The economic effects are small since the affected population segment is tiny, but the debate on gay marriage takes on a prominence way beyond any direct socioeconomic effect that it may have.Why the reflexive pull towards some strawman about his views of LGBTQ+ people?
>>2926659>then homosexuality also has to have a function, but since they don't have kids very often the function must be bourgeois and gays are parasites who can only exist in capitalism, and capitalism gives rise to extreme individualism and atomisation so therefore homosexuals have an objective interest in opposing socialismI think this is a major leap, from what I could tell his views on homosexuality is just that it emerges from pre-existing social and genetic conditions and that there exist certain class parameters around the organization of hetero/homosexual couples. I see nothing to imply that "gays are parasites" and tbh, it's kind of fucked up to put words like that in someone's mouth
>>2926664only problem is that hes old asf
>>2926621>Reminder that Cockshott was opposed to Irish liberation and Irish socialist movements that wanted to unify Ireland >Why does he support the British occupation? That's something else that people don't seem to ask enough.Similar to how natives of America & Africa, if they were left alone isolated, would be likely behind in terms of philosophical works, development in productive forces, etc.
Why wouldn't there be an one unified Communist-State rather than two nation states? Why wouldn't the Irish be leveraging the British industrial base?
Colonialism and "Imperialism" , even though usually rooting out of conditions of a developing capitalist mode of production, were "progressive" in regards of causing changes in people's spirit, both in the home country and occupied lands, spreading valuations of a people that actualized the capitalist mode of production and new social relations.
Some short examples to this would be how the worship of the Christian Lord lost it's old relevance in judgement in European Civilization with individual intuition were more revered.
Karl Marx & Friedrich Engels, also, pinpointed at the revolutionary nature of this phenomenon:
"England, it is true, in causing a social revolution in Hindostan, was actuated only by the vilest interests, and was stupid in her manner of enforcing them. But that is not the question. The question is, can mankind fulfil its destiny without a fundamental revolution in the social state of Asia? If not, whatever may have been the crimes of England she was the unconscious tool of history in bringing about that revolution."
— Karl Marx, "The British Rule in India" (New-York Daily Tribune, June 25, 1853)
"England has to fulfill a double mission in India: one destructive, the other regenerating the annihilation of old Asiatic society, and the laying the material foundations of Western society in Asia."
— Karl Marx, "The Future Results of British Rule in India" (New-York Daily Tribune, August 8, 1853)
"In America we have witnessed the conquest of Mexico and have rejoiced at it. It is also an advance when a country which has hitherto been exclusively wrapped up in its own affairs, perpetually rent with civil wars, and completely hindered in its development… is forcibly drawn into the historical process. It is to the interest of its own development that Mexico will in future be placed under the tutelage of the United States."
— Friedrich Engels, "The Movements of 1847" (Deutsche-Brüsseler-Zeitung, January 23, 1848)
"And will Bakunin accuse the Americans of a 'war of conquest', which, although it deals a severe blow to his theory based on 'justice and humanity', was nevertheless waged wholly and solely in the interest of civilization? Or is it perhaps unfortunate that splendid California has been taken away from the lazy Mexicans, who could not do anything with it? That the energetic Yankees by rapid exploitation of the California gold mines will increase the means of circulation… and will for the first time really open the Pacific Ocean to civilization…?"
— Friedrich Engels, "Democratic Pan-Slavism" (Neue Rheinische Zeitung, February 15, 1849)
>>2926662>I see nothing to imply that "gays are parasites" and tbh, it's kind of fucked up to put words like that in someone's mouthHe puts gay men in the top 10% of the population who earn more per hour than the value that their labor creates, which by default makes them parasites. "Parasite" obviously has pejorative connotations but I'm just following the implication of his own argument.
>>2926660<The conclusion from the evidence so far is that the gay marriage movement is fundamentally conservative, aimed at the securing of relatively privileged property ownership and it makes the relative position of women in society slightly worse. So that's a good example of the mechanical-ism (mecha-ism?) of his thinking. Beep b00p. IMO what I think it was actually about was working through a contradiction within capitalism (in a distorted way) which both frees people up to live more autonomous sexual lives while preserving private property relations. There's a thymotic quality to gay marriage but the material crux was around home ownership which led to the formation of a cross-class alliance among homosexuals in alliance with home mortgage finance because when same-sex couples get married they consider taking out a mortgage on a house. Also it's much easier to do if the marriage is legally recognized. It's essentially a bourgeois property relation.
>>2926668You really have to think we're stupid to use Karl Marx (noted supporter of Irish independence) in an argument against Irish independence.
>>2926668Most historically illiterate poster award
Maybe there's a reason native americans, africans, Irish, etc are opposed to being colonised and genocided?
Maybe they can't simply "leverage" the philosophical, political, technological "superiority" of their colonisers to improve themselves when they're being starved and killed?
>>2926277Do ACP types like the guy? Cockshott proposes something actually socialist instead of sucking eastern capitalist dick.
>>2926672Colonialism isn't a driver of history. Class struggle is. French revolution ended slavery in Haiti.
>>2926607Anon I think he influenced Dengist China more than 70s/80s Poland.
>>2926676>Colonialism isn't a driver of history. Class struggle is. Okay how does that relate to anything we were discussing?
You said that people being colonised shouldn't fight back but just be thankful for the industry and advancements their occupation and genocide would bring
You think Palestinians are saying, wow I'm sure glad I'm being killed because then I can leverage the Zionist industrial base!
Of course not. Your argument is stupid.
>French revolution ended slavery in Haiti.The French bourgeois revolutionary regime, while historically progressive compared what came before it, fought to defend slavery in Haiti.
The Haitian slaves revolted and ended slavery themselves.
Not only that but the French Republic demanded reparations to the French state and former slave owners as compensation for the Haitians winning their own freedom, under the threat of invasion and reconquest if they refused. (Which is the largest reason why Haiti is so poor today btw).
Why are you attributing their victory to some crakkkers on the other side of the planet?
>>2926671You are actually right on this. He had shifted some of his beliefs perhaps, but the former still holds some weight, in my opinion. Would there be no national impulses between the irish and british workers, would Marx uphold the same stance he had shifted in 70s:
"For a long time I believed that it would be possible to overthrow the Irish regime by English working-class ascendancy. I always expressed this point of view in the New York Tribune… Deeper study has now convinced me of the opposite. The English working class will never accomplish anything until it has got rid of Ireland. The lever must be applied in Ireland. That is why the Irish question is so important for the social movement in general."
— Karl Marx, Letter to Friedrich Engels (December 10, 1869)
"Every industrial and commercial centre in England now possesses a working class divided into two hostile camps, English proletarians and Irish proletarians. The ordinary English worker hates the Irish worker as a competitor who lowers his standard of life. In relation to the Irish worker he regards himself as a member of the ruling nation and consequently he becomes a tool of the English aristocrats and capitalists against Ireland, thus strengthening their domination over himself."
— Karl Marx, Letter to Sigfrid Meyer and August Vogt (April 9, 1870)
"Therefore to hasten the social revolution in England is the most important object of the International Working Men’s Association. The sole means of hastening it is to make Ireland independent. Hence it is the task of the International everywhere to put the conflict between England and Ireland in the foreground, and everywhere to side openly with Ireland."
— Karl Marx, Letter to Sigfrid Meyer and August Vogt (April 9, 1870)
>>2926672Famines were happening in India long before the British rule, due to Indian society still being heavyly tied to primitive agriculture. Though at the end, British had chosen to compromise with the rites of populace like caste system, so that is a point. (Though Canada/Australia/New Zealand leveraged from it) Most optimistic colonial instance may be possible incorporation of Algeria to France in equal rights and citizenship. That would uplift more Algerians and force French mainland populace to give into concessions to keep Algeria under French rule. But I do see your point.
>>2926683>You think Palestinians are saying, wow I'm sure glad I'm being killed because then I can leverage the Zionist industrial base!That anon is not me, but even USSR supported the creation of Israeli led binational state, hoping it would be a socialist state, as in historical context first cabinet of Israel were consisted of "labor zionists", but they turned out to be pro American and national chauvinist succdems
>>2926277I feel its more telling of the party in question being shit than anything else
>>2926670>He puts gay men in the top 10% of the population who earn more per hour than the value that their labor createsHe doesn't put them there, it's simply what the data bears out. I have no reason to believe it not to be true or the result of some nefarious dishonest statistical trickery. Do you have some evidence that this is not the case?
>which by default makes them parasites. "Parasite" obviously has pejorative connotations but I'm just following the implication of his own argument.If that's what you want it to mean that's on you, but don't go around claiming that's what Cockshot thinks, because he never made such claims
>So that's a good example of the mechanical-ism (mecha-ism?) of his thinking. Beep b00p. But Gaynazianon, you are basically an idealist. So your perception of someone who is using materialist analysis, is always going to be too mechanical for your tastes. While perhaps a bit dry or rigid, I wouldn't call it dogmatic even. It just centers economic relations and the reproduction of material life and that's fine for a marxist to do
>IMO what I think it was actually about was working through a contradiction within capitalism (in a distorted way) which both frees people up to live more autonomous sexual lives while preserving private property relations. There's a thymotic quality to gay marriage but the material crux was around home ownership which led to the formation of a cross-class alliance among homosexuals in alliance with home mortgage finance because when same-sex couples get married they consider taking out a mortgage on a house. Also it's much easier to do if the marriage is legally recognized. It's essentially a bourgeois property relation.See this is basically not in contradiction with Cockshot's post, just more up in the air and nebulous driven by conjecture and has less driven by data and analysis
>>2926668>Why wouldn't there be an one unified Communist-State rather than two nation states?while in principle this would be good, in practice this just ends up defending Anglo colonialism in Ireland. if the UK was a worker's state things would be different. but it isn't
while we're talking about deep Cockshott lore, he's also said some weird fucking things defending Scottish clan society
>>2926665The guy is about to become a full time carer for his autistic son again.
You know what, been reading some text about deliberate de-industrialization of India under British Rule to repurpose the colony for only raw goods extraction and remove the Indian competition against British manufacturing.
Also since Canada etc. were technically settler colonies, there weren't much of a local populace to speak about.
Perhaps that made me, or have me, rethink some of the judgements I've made here. I am conflicted about Irish partition from the Britain, as not opposed to continuation of the supremacy of British Mainland interests, but a societial transformation of two people's blending. But national impulses are of a fact, so perhaps Dr Cockshott had an interesting stance..
>>2926699>I am conflicted about Irish partition from the Britain, as not opposed to continuation of the supremacy of British Mainland interests, but a societial transformation of two people's blendingTypo here, I meant "as opposed to the continuation of British Mainland interests, but not opposed to the idea of blending two people"
>>2926689>He doesn't put them there, it's simply what the data bears out.Of course he always says stuff like that. He's not going to say gays are just fags, it's science.
>If that's what you want it to mean that's on you, but don't go around claiming that's what Cockshot thinks, because he never made such claimsAre a top 10% of the population who take more than they give back parasites or not.
>But Gaynazianon, you are basically an idealist. So your perception of someone who is using materialist analysis, is always going to be too mechanical for your tastes. He co-authored a whole book about mechanical materialism as being superior to dialectical materialism and the base-superstructure model. He thinks people are robots but he is a Bong after all.
>See this is basically not in contradiction with Cockshot's post, just more up in the air and nebulous driven by conjecture and has less driven by data and analysisI try my best, but I think it's more dialectical.
>>2926708>Of course he always says stuff like that. He's not going to say gays are just fags, it's science.Well are they or are they not? (in the top 10%)
>Are a top 10% of the population who take more than they give back parasites or notHe calls them comfortably middle and upper class, if that is the case then you can call them parasites if you will. What matters more is if it's true rather than what dumb adjective you want to put on it
>He co-authored a whole book about mechanical materialism as being superior to dialectical materialism and the base-superstructure model. He thinks people are robots but he is a Bong after all.That is fine, I disagree with his determinism and whatnot, but there's much worse out there
>>2926714>What matters more is if it's true Some are. Some aren't. There are gay billionaires. But there's not that many of them like there aren't that many billionaires compared to the rest of the population. Does he thinks all these gay waiters and hairdressers and flight attendents are in the top 10%? I don't remember what data he was plugging into the Cocktron 5000 to derive that conclusion but I doubted it.
>>2926708>He co-authored a whole book about mechanical materialism as being superior to dialectical materialism and the base-superstructure model. He thinks people are robots but he is a Bong after all.
funnily enough i think the mechanical materialism bit is more right than not, but the study he cited to show humans were unthinking robots turned out to be provably false and a nonsense interpretation of data.
>>2926716>Some are. Some aren'tA cowardly answer.
He's just using mean income levels, see pic rel, pretty straightforward stuff
I don't know why this coping about billionaires is necessary
>>2926720I think this is better explained by the fact that LGBT+ people tend to on higher average be more alienated by family members and thus need to earn more in order to make up for the lack of family support or inheritance. Paul lacks this social context.
>>2926721That's backward logic. Why don't all poor people with no inheritance just earn more?
Basically you're saying because they're gay their higher salary must have been earned through elbow grease and hard work. Hardly a materialist view
>>2926721that wouldn't really explain why lesbians have below heterosexual average incomes
it also really misses out explaining why heterosexual men are, on average, far more prone to reaction (though the gay men in favor are some of the most aggressive about it)
>>2926722Its not backwards logic to say that workers without income support will tend to try and climb higher than someone without it, it is direct materialism.
Its not just 'why dont you earn more' or 'poor people should just work harder', its that LGBT+ people often have no choice but to 'work harder' than someone with the bank of mum or dad to rely on.
>>2926723women earn less than men
with the higher earning comes a higher class position which can lead to the conservative gay male we all know.
>>2926720Why are communists worried about incomes and wages??
>>2926724>Its not backwards logic to say that workers without income support will tend to try and climb higher than someone without it, it is direct materialism.That's not materialism at all, what are you talking about? It's just some assertion you made about people's subjective motivation to grind harder, without evidence. I can just as easily say there's no opportunity to "climb higher" as an impoverished worker at all, regardless of your sexual orientation
>Its not just 'why dont you earn more' or 'poor people should just work harder', its that LGBT+ people often have no choice but to 'work harder' than someone with the bank of mum or dad to rely on.Your presumption is that having no choice but hard work is somehow exclusive to gay people and that that leads to some sort of higher income statistic doesn't bear out though, what we actually see is that impoverished people, with no financial security often just stay poor. Most people have no choice but to work hard. The idea the average hetero worker can "rely on the bank of mum and dad", is an insanely privileged viewpoint
If this were the case we'd see all kinds of the most impoverished sections of society rise up because they "have to" work harder. But we don't see that at all
>>2926728>That's not materialism at all, what are you talking about? It's just some assertion you made about people's subjective motivation to grind harder, without evidence. I can just as easily say there's no opportunity to "climb higher" as an impoverished worker at all, regardless of your sexual orientationWe're both asserting things, I cant be bothered to dredge up stats and such for a casual chat but it would be my experience engaging in LGBT+ circles in the UK.
>The idea the average hetero worker can "rely on the bank of mum and dad", is an insanely privileged viewpointIts fairly self evident to suggest LGBT+ people are probably more prone to being cutoff by parents than hetro people, we live on TERF island.
Im not talking about the lumpen LGBT+ people, of which tend to just kill themselves or go into sex work, im talking about those 'lucky' enough to get a job - this just manifests in them working for longer or more hours. Hetro people can also do this, its just LGBT+ people find themselves in the above mentioned situation more often due to alienation from social groups fed by a reactionary society and media that others them.
>>2926720>He's just using mean income levels, see pic rel, pretty straightforward stuffSo anyone who makes more than anyone else is an exploiter? Proleterian industrial workers made substantially more money than agricultural laborers in Russia in 1917 and they were the core revolutionary class. Or gays as a population make $2/hour on average more than straight men (but obviously averages being what they are, there is a substantial number of gays that make less money than many straight men too) so this is an "appreciable socio-economic class difference" via sexual orientation divorced from property relations? This is your brain on mechanical materialism.
>>2926734>this just manifests in them working for longer or more hours.There is a gay workaholic archetype.
>>2926736You began with the assertions, I provided statistics from Cockshot's article.
Sure lgbt people are more often estranged from their family and alienated by society, but your reasoning that this somehow leads them to earn more money is backwards. They should be earning less if that was all there is to it. I have no reason to believe this discrepancy in incomes is due to gay people "working more hours", the stats I provided already accounted for that, it includes median hourly wages
>>2926744Its partially that they are more alienated but also a lack of family comittments makes a worker who can now work xmas day and such, they just have higher value to work places.
I will also say that it is true positive discrimination occurs thru nepoism and DEI style hiring practices - this feeds into resentment as well on a wider scale. Likely also down to how the LGBT+ family unit is less likely to require leave for having kids and such.
Its a lot of things working together to make it so, your stats even show that LGBT+ people have a higher 'activity rate' than married men or women.
>>2926742>So anyone who makes more than anyone else is an exploiter? Proleterian industrial workers made substantially more money than agricultural laborers in Russia in 1917 and they were the core revolutionary classMaybe just read the article dude, idk why you're soying out over this
<How do you define class position in Marxist terms? At its most basic the distinction between exploiting and exploited classes rests on whether a person receives goods and services involving more labour than they contribute to society. This is a general definition that applies across all class societies, slave, feudal or capitalist. If you get back more than you put in in terms of labour then you, at least partially, benefit from exploitation<It is important to realise that whether someone benefits from exploitation is not down to the legal form of their income. A person may formally be an employee and still benefit from exploitation. Obviously this applies to a manager on £250,000 a year. It is not always so evident where the cut-off comes. To work it out precisely you have to know what the monetary equivalent of an hour of labour is. I have not worked this out recently for the UK but before the recession I reckoned that it was about £20 an hour. As a first estimate anyone earning more than this in say 2008 would have been, at least partially, benefiting from the exploitation of others.
>Or gays as a population make $2/hour on average more than straight men (but obviously averages being what they are, there is a substantial number of gays that make less money than many straight men too) so this is an "appreciable socio-economic class difference" via sexual orientation divorced from property relations? This is your brain on mechanical materialism.2 per hour median difference adds up. Yearly the differences were in the 10s of thousands, accounting for family size it was even more. Whether you consider that a substantial difference is up to you. I don't think it's super significant or anything, but it is interesting
>>2926754Idk about the that, the evils of "DEI" sound like overblown rightoid nonsense to me. It's like you keep looking for some quality about LGBT-ness in particular that makes them have higher wages, which is not really what the article is about. I think the fact that they tend to not raise children in the same numbers as hetero couples do, that more than accounts for this discrepancy. If gay couple adoption became more prominent we'd probably see a decline in the difference of income. Though it might still be a bit higher because it would involve two men. Though I don't really see a reason for why that would happen
>>2926760>the evils of "DEI" sound like overblown rightoid nonsense to menot at all, it was the same thing that played out in the USSR - a socially progressive intellectual city/academic/admin job type group of workers at odds with the reactionary base. Its not a stretch to imagine they favor one another for jobs while in power, mainly in that if you start ranting about 'the damn faggots' to the person hiring you who is queer you wont get a job now or in the 1920s.
>>2926763Neither that, nor "DEI" is what played out in the ussr. Which is not even relevant to this discussion. You sound more like a rightoid retard with every post
>>2926467Dworkin is a woman trapped within liberalism, who has a good grasp of liberal and western ideology without ever breaking free from it. She has limited value as a serious political figure unless you want to understand western liberal gender politics, which arguably isnt worth studying.
Her "every man a rapist" "women are gods chosen people and need their own nation" is basically zionism applied to gender
I think Paul being positive towards the ACP is entirely why he was kicked. I assume the anti zionism and other stuff is secondary or public facing excuse
Tbh the anti ACP stuff is pushed everywhere online,
>>2926723
>doesnt explain why women have below average incomei think being a woman is why they have below average income
>>2926763what the actual fuck are you talking about
>>2926782i think he is trying to say that the woke bourgeois queers are keeping real bucking broncos like him unemployed or something. idk i dont speak stupid
>>2926797
>twitter propagandizing and years old pieces of contextless discourseIm sure the american labor unions are very radical and trade unionism will topple the government any day now
>>2926755>>2926742trvprole rhetoric will never not be funny given what the original criteria was:
savings-less immiserated trapped surplus value producing propertyless subsistence wage worker raising ~3 children to adulthood while living in poverty living in the 19th century imperial core europe during the period of industrialization before common access to contraception, abortion, birth control, sex education, water sanitation, residential electricity, or welfare
WW1 gave us world imperialism and Lenin's analysis of it
WW2 gave us nuclear weapons and superpower hegemony
the cold war gave us the decline of the largest marxist social experiment in human history (the USSR)
the post USSR era has given us an endless circlejerk rehashing of analyses that are 150 years old now
>>2926804>its 3 years old you hecking chud, that's like ancient if you have ADHD like me>you're taking him out of context, the ottomans really were socialists you LGBT imperialist!!!give it a rest
>>2926804>Im sure the american labor unions are very radical and trade unionism will topple the government any day nowyou and i both know nobody was saying that. just because burger reich trade unions aren't "radical" doesn't support the conclusion "fuck union organizing" or all the endless idpol seething about queers or the subzero autism score takes about MAGA communism being the path forward and queers being the number one obstacle to communism.
>>2926811I didnt simply say it was old and thats why it doesnt matter, I said it was contextless pieces of older discourse.
In the modern day western political sphere of twitter, its equiavalent to a soundbyte. Trying to understand someone just from soundbytes alone is retarded.
Like the whole ottoman (and now Islam) being marxism or socialism is a propagandizing point, meant to get joiners by connecting the abstract of nonwestern development and islamic anti imperialism and labeling it communist.
Its genuinenly meant to be a kind of self conciously brainrotted form of propagandizing anti western politics.
Theyre trying to get muslims and broader nonwestern support, and get support from people who arent educated communists
at worst id say its fighting brainrot with more brainrot, but the actual longform political messaging is more coherent
Daily reminder that Cockshott joined the Alba party, a split from the socdem SNP driven entirely by (a) revenge by its former leader after his replacement wouldn't help him cover up allegations of sexual assault and (b) boomer seethe that the SNP was socially liberal. It was neither a socialist org, nor a serious nationalist/independence one, nor even a competent one (it crashed and burned at every election it stood in, so even a "be a socialist in a non socialist party to get mainstream influence" doesn't stand)
The CPB and dickblast were made for one another: useless old reactionaries who'd surrender socialism in a heartbeat if it meant sticking it to the fags and trans for making them uncomfortable and interfering with the fantasies they've had for the last 40 years about how socialism will look, fantasies they've done less than nothing to make reality.
>>2926815But its not a "conclusion" in the way you think it is. It was something intentionally said for a specific time and place, for a specific discourse and political situation.
Trade unionism in the US has a lot of problems and there is a genuine sort of compatible left obsession with it. There is a promoted tendecy in the US to put unions over party building, which is the broader discussion thats happening there.
if I say "fuck moms" in the context of being drunkenly beaten or some other parental bullshit u wouldnt jump to think that I hated all women or motherhood unless u lacked the context
>>2926824there's always some mystical unspecified context that justifies Haz being a giant reactionary douche. Nearly anything he says that was stupid turns out to be some magical joke nobody understood or taken out of some context that actually makes it make sense. Hasan's defenders, Bad Empanada's defenders, and Agent Kochinski's defenders do the exact same thing. To Haz's credit what made him unique is he started a party. Shame he spoiled that by being a str*amer grifter
>>2926843you speak in meta abstracts, there is no value in it.
Say something specific, focus on something long enough to get to the root of it.
I was never apart of the Haz thing apart from liking that WowMao vid, but over time I noticed that his clique and party are defined by a uniquely non western and anti western approach to politics, which is refreshing.
For isnatnce I saw the very same anti prostitution and anti feminist Kollontai positions I had discovered years earlier coming from them and them alone. What other party has the actual knowledge and courage to decry feminism from the heart of the west?
Paul Cockshott bros…
The real reason the ACP gets such a bad rep on leftypol is because they refuse to pander to AGPs. That’s it really
>>2926859To the broader "queer" political movement. I think they see it like feminism, as a western liberal political project to stifle communist ideology
>>2926859yeah I dont get it, many of the regulars here that never miss a chance to shit on them have basically the same politics as them really, they just hide it behind a more normie-lib friendly rethoric, they would consider them comrades if they just tailed the DNC instead of the GOP
>>2926899I think ACP types are pathetic because they started out extremely smug about how the left are not the left but fascists who are also soy and weak while MAGA voters are going to join their movement and it's going to be this big thing, and it's not panning out and the whole thing seems like a mistake and Twitter leftists are so mean and should be comrades :(
Guess we've still got some time until 2036.
I could care less
>>2926893>I just don't think it's really a Marxist position.this is a weird take considering you have said yourself that you're not a marxist and don't care about marxist theory
>>2926859no they go out of their way to be actively hostile towards queers instead of just shutting the fuck up about it. while at the same time saying retarded shit like "marx was a muslim" and "the ottoman empire was socialist" then you look upon this as "refusing to pander" and no matter how many examples you're given it's always just "a funny joke taken out of context". real tiresome shit chuddy.
>>2926900>I think ACP types are pathetic because they started out extremely smug about how the left are not the left but fascists who are also soy and weak while MAGA voters are going to join their movement and it's going to be this big thing, and it's not panning out and the whole thing seems like a mistake and Twitter leftists are so mean and should be comrades :( they've moved onto the stage where they pretended that never happened and actually you're just seething at them because they "refuse to pander" to your "LGBT imperialist" agenda.
>>2926777>i think being a woman is why they have below average incomefascinating. elaborate.
>>2926847>over time I noticed that his clique and party are defined by a uniquely non western and anti western approach to politicsthey are just reinventing western conservatism from first principles, throwing in some anti imperialist rhetoric on top of "MAGA" national chauvinist politics, hope that tailing the most reactionary and bigoted imperial core crackers working for raytheon and boeing and voting for zion don will yield them support, while at the same time shitting on people who have historically been more amenable to communism because of the "LGBT imperialim" meme which only became possible due to a period of bourgeois recuperation of queer culture in the late 20th century, after decades of basically the entire imperialist cadres at the top of western society being old racist homophobic christian white dudes LOL basically the people who have always supported the american murder machine (conservatives) now appear to dimwits like you to be "anti imperialists" because they share idk fucking abrahamic spooks with third world muslims in yemen or something. meanwhile queers have been successfully scapegoated as the arch imperialists who are responsible for everything bad in amerikkka since 1776 after only a few years of brainwashing you dimwits.
>>2926755>idk why you're soying out over thiswell, if you go back to his previous posts
>>>/leftypol/2926525>>>/leftypol/2926590you will see that the guy doesn't care. he won't read the books or the articles or anything, and whatever you say, he will make something up and/or make the worst possible strawman out of it. he's wasting your time. for example, he calls cockshott a vulgar mechanicist without ever elaborating, presenting evidence, having read nothing the man has wrote, etc. just based on the vibes he got from not reading cockshott
if you reply, you're taking the low effort bait, because you have to bring sources, post his articles, and do a bunch of work, he can just lie and make things up
if you don't, then he cracks the consensus and the newcomers here will think cockshott is just some fringe boomer. I only ever read about cockshott because of this site, and he is the author that got me into marxism. the points he makes against the austrian school and the supposed inevitability of free markets in general are second to none, and his book on historical materialism is by far the most convincing thing I have read from any marxist author from the last 100 years
this guy is invaluable precisely because all the "big" marxist authors that have been legitimized by the bourgeois media are completely useless. they don't have a consistent model of politics or economy, they don't have ideas or a program. they do have a lot of articles on jacobin magazine talking about tv series or whatever the fuck. it's all slop for college students
>>2926818>In the modern day western political sphere of twitter, its equiavalent to a soundbyte. Trying to understand someone just from soundbytes alone is retarded.i've listened to several hours of the man talk. he says a lot of retarded nonsense which spoils the correct and obvious things he says (imperialism bad, communism good)
>>2926900>Guess we've still got some time until 2036.I dont think its beyond the real of posibility, this is clown world we are talking about after all
>>>/leftypol/2926935>mechanical materialistnope
he argues that marx's method was historical materialism
notice that you posted a bunch of stuff written by other people, and the book written by cockshott doesn't use the word "mechanical"
it is disingenuous to say that the only other side besides dialectics is mechanicism
and it is disingenuous to then use that lie to say that cockshott is a vulgar mechanicist that thinks people are computers
this is grasping at straws shit
and here you see it again btw, all the cockshott haters have to make these incredibly convoluted strawmen to try to find an angle
I guess they figured out that whenever they try to use the lgbt shit they sound like insane wreckers
>>2926948Well you've caught me, I haven't read the book. But Paul Cockshott posted a review of the book where the reviewer says Cockshott thinks Marx wasn't a Hegelian or dialectical materialist but a mechanical materialist. I'm pretty sure Marxism kept the dialecticism of Hegel while dropping the idealism and combining it with the materialism of Feuerbach while dropping the mechanism but like you said, I'm not a Marxist so idk. What do you think?
I do wonder why liking or disliking transgenders is this big of a political shibboleth. And why they have such enormous cultural impact in contrast with being insignificant demographically and economically. I wouldn't know, though. I learned nothing from liberals handling of Feminism and homosexuality.
>>2926954>I do wonder why liking or disliking transgenders is this big of a political shibbolethBecause it's pretty much the litmus test of your broader politics, which side you are on.
In my experience it's typically one of the 3:
<Desiring to improve the world for the working classes and oppressed peoples as much as you can<An ideological crusade to enact social reactionary repression to "restore"/create some mythical ideally moral society <Ensure you gain power at any costs, willing to throw any portion of society under the bus to see your team win You can probably see these three positions broadly correlate with leftism/socialism, then rightoidism + ACP/reactionary "communist" types, and finally centrism / liberalism
still haven't heard the explanation why the totally legit ACP's very first actions were to trying to literally deceive people into thinking they were the real CPUSA and the CPUSA were fakes on twitter.
>>2926913I just explained this shit to you as a propagandizing strategy, trying to act brainrotted in a way that appeals to non leftist and non western people online. Its not some esoteric joke, its just a twitter recruitment strategy
>>2926919To me he sounds like a communist trying to immitate those manosphere influencers. Using the retarded language and talking points with modifications meant to push people towards communist conclusions.
Like just last night someone uploaded a clip and titled it as being about the cornell 7 and it was 90% Haz complaining about beta males and social desperation with like 1-2 sentences of him saying the cornell 7 are also such beta males
Somewhat insufferable to listen to but the underyling beliefs being conveyed are positive, if youre one of those manosphere apolitical types
>>2926964
>if ur pro trans ur progressive>anti trans is reactionaryokay so basically all of historical and current socialism and anti imperialist kovements are reactionary apart from the last years of the DDR?
And all the imperialist western liberals are progressive?
making the irrelevent and western brainrot+social alienation induced problem of "transexuals" your political litmus test is exactly why your ideology isnt effective or meaningful.
anti imperialism should always be the center, always the litmus
If youre trans, then its a problem of self obsession expressing politically, if ur not, then youve fallen into the liberal oppression olympic mentality and fetishize the transes politically cuz of it
>>2926976try coming back when you're feeling less like being a completely bad actor
the way social arguments get divided is socially and historically rooted
>>2926976>if ur pro trans ur progressive>anti trans is reactionaryYes. Do you disagree?
>okay so basically all of historical and current socialism and anti imperialist kovements are reactionary apart from the last years of the DDR?Most current socialism and anti-imperialism isn't anti trans. You think most millennial and gen z communists hate LGBT people?
A lot of, but not all, past socialist movements were socially reactionary. I don't think that's seriously disputed either.
>And all the imperialist western liberals are progressive?Strawman. Most liberals are anti-trans these days. But yes it's possible to be an economic liberal and a social progressive.
>making the irrelevent and western brainrot+social alienation induced problem of "transexuals" your political litmus test is exactly why your ideology isnt effective or meaningful.How so? Do you actually have a reasoning behind rejecting the validity of this as a general litmus test?
Trans rights is one of the most discussed and debated dividing lines of modern society.
>anti imperialism should always be the center, always the litmusDo you think people obsessed with hating trans people are anti-imperialist?
>If youre trans, then its a problem of self obsession expressing politically, if ur not, then youve fallen into the liberal oppression olympic mentality and fetishize the transes politically cuz of itIt's survival at this point. Trans people are being banned from public places and violence is normalised against them. They're pretty much the only minority you can freely and publicly attack.
The leaders of major western political parties routinely use them as a scapegoat and use slurs against them, normalising dehumanisation.
They're amongst the most marginalised minorities there are.
Fuck you and your social reactionary cancer calling caring about other people's lives "liberal oppression olympics". Go join the ACP or whatever Hitlerite party is near you already.
this thread is basically people willing to overlook the fact that the western anti-trans zealots are basically a venn diagram of a circle with zionists screaming for the blood of iranian children
but
want to start really really purity testing every single homosexual to see if they're making 25 cents more in salary than what a statistical average suggests someone should be making
>>2926979you are insane and seem to think western liberal politics is all of politics. The largest communist country with 200-300 million registered communists is china.
Iran, the DPRK, Cuba, the Houthis, Hezbollah, the Palestinians are the largest anti imperialist movements, speaking to them of trans rights would be insane and pointless, as it has no meaning to them. It only has meaning in the west, which is what makes it idiotic to care about.
you can sit there and cope and think "oh the older communists just werent ready for the trans question" but there were people discussing and researching it back then, and the communist position was to call it out as bougie sexual politics and not care
>>2926985>Iran, the DPRK, Cuba, the Houthis, Hezbollah, the Palestinians Of these only Cuba claims to be communists and they have gay marriage and trans rights.
You seem to believe China hates trans people or something, when it's western social reactionaries like yourself who have driven themselves insane with their obsessive hatred over trans people.
>>2926980This is partially true. The whole point of western spectactle politics is to make arbitrary divisions of material poltiical alliances. Being vehemntly anti trans also means caring about it, meaning wasting their spirit on a pointless issue. The zealotry of both sides tends to define both as pro western liberals. If you look at all the big trans and queer orgs their non queer politics are generally quite pro western, liberal, and at best social democrat.
>>2926985>Iran, the DPRK, Cuba, the Houthis, Hezbollah, the Palestinians are the largest anti imperialist movements, speaking to them of trans rights would be insane and pointless, as it has no meaning to them. are we discussing organizing in these places or are we discussing someone in the west and their politics
we are not talking about them or their politics or how things work there
>within these circles, society is divided up as such<have you considered that you should try working by the rules that other societies with different sets of issues do and just be completely at odds with the environment you're in?No, i don't think like that.
Bets on the next political party he will join?
My moneys on Galloways current gravy train or restore.
>>2926987you keep projecting this "hate" or "love" (pro or anti) framework onto it.
I live in china, and the simple answer is that the chinese dont care. younger social outcasts rotted on western social media care. No one else.
Personal life, personal sexuality, personal gender, its all liberal individualism and will never be the basis for any real political movement. The west knows this and props up it up, funding both sides to make it seem like it matters, but it genuinely doesnt. Its a psyop at best and a western narcisstic degeneracy at worst.
>>2926988and why am I supposed to suddenly want to flip to being more friendly with the people who think that communists don't have a soul and that middle easterners should eat bombs for breakfast, whose "pro western" attitude is that the west should actually increase its imperialism and dominance and hegemony? Over the issue of being trans?
You still haven't answered this extremely basic issue.
>>2926992wtf are u talking about, take your meds
the whole point has been to center an anti imperialist attitude regardless of how they feel about irrelevent trans athletes or bathrooms or some shit
perosnally I think the trans thing is fine, a repsonse to gendered brainrot in the west or living in the soulless west, but not that impactful on the world, but giving it any political platform or independent identity is retarded and akin to racial seperatism, zionism, or feminism
>>2926988It doesn't matter what the queer orgs think about other issues. If there were a concerted push by civil society groups, media, and politicians to ban idiots on leftypol from attending public spaces or receiving health services, you'd care about that.
>>2926964>Because it's pretty much the litmus test of your broader politics, which side you are onThe real and practically only reliable litmus test is your position on Palestine. Trans people and other cultural identity elements are basically irrelevant as far as real politics go
>>2927021>The real and practically only reliable litmus test is your position on Palestine.Then nationalism won for 1000 years more.
>>2927022No that has nothing to do with anything, but nice cope
>>2926991>Personal life, personal sexuality, personal gender, its all liberal individualism and will never be the basis for any real political movement. The west knows this and props up it up, funding both sides to make it seem like it matters, but it genuinely doesnt. Its a psyop at best and a western narcisstic degeneracy at worst.I think there's a couple of interesting things about this. Because what is often argued to be a backlash to trans people isn't necessarily a backlash but a form of right-wing elite countermobilization. In the United States, there have been hundreds of millions of dollars spent in political campaigns (Elon Musk) to promote anti-trans hysteria in a minority of the population to get them to vote for the Republicans. But the people promoting this along with the politicians doing it despise their voters and want to have as little direct contact with them as possible.
But when you say, well, making this is your identity or making it political is retarded, they're not going to listen to you because they're just being constantly subjected to harassment over their personal life, sexuality, gender… all stuff that you think people shouldn't care about. It's their
social experience involving actual people which produces a particular consciousness in a way not of their own choosing. It doesn't look like the bourgeoisie vs. the proletariat and doesn't have a particular class function which causes Cockshott's computer brain to have a 404 error but it is happening as a social phenomenon.
>>2926859They actually have/had way more "AGP" in their org (picrel) than gay or wathever is your sacred cow.
The reason ACP is disliked accross the board is they are hyper-agressive cranks changing ideologies every 6 month and insulting everyone.
They constantly flip-flop between pro-LGBT and super anti-LGBT, they flip flop between "based american nationalism" and "america the great satan", flip flop between glazing turd worlders or hating turd worlders all based on irrelevant fights or news of the day. They even tried a LGB drop the T line at some point before dropping it 3 month after starting it hahaha.
No these guys are fucked in the head megalomaniacs through and through, and i say this as someone who think haz can be a good poster.
>>2926914Right they pretend they never were MAGA golems during the Biden era now.
>>2926954If all anti-trans leftists/liberals didnt collectively turned into insane (!) jewish supremacists and only interested in teaming up with reactionaries to kill the left you maybe would have had a point.
>>2926859I hate them cause they are hitlerites tho
>>2927032In what way are they proponents of hitler?
>>2926612>? I don't see any transphobiaPaul claims that trans people categorically do not exist, which seems transphobic to me
https://paulcockshott.wordpress.com/2017/12/12/genders-or-sex-stereotypes-part-1/>if men who claim to be women are treated as legally being women this not only goes beyond the intention of the original law, but it may place women at a disadvantage. We have strong sympathies with these objections. In this article we will be arguing that genders, in the sense of sets of people, do not exist.Paul is however however right in pointing out Butler's nonsense
one can language lawyer about the meaning of words like "man" and "woman" all day long, but Paul is careful not to be direct about the Trans Question. that is, what is to be done about trans people? not even Paul can possibly deny the existence of transness. we also have fMRI imagery of trans people's brains showing that they really do feel like they are of the opposite sex. Paul seems to believe that there's a grand "transpiracy" where boys are trying to sneak into the girls' changing room
personally I think gender is a cope for the fact that we do not yet have the technology to change someone's sex. when/if we do, this whole debate will seem incredibly quaint
I found the arguments in part 3 more interesting:
https://paulcockshott.wordpress.com/2017/12/23/genders-or-sex-stereotypes-part-3/the abolition of heteronormativity (an impossibility) would put an incredible high reproductive burden on heterosexual women. I wonder if Paul has considered the idea of aborting half of male fetuses (or more) to further reduce this burden
>>2927021🇺🇦🇵🇸 diaproves it
Palestine is the easiest anti imperialist stance, its the most well known, popular, and accepted.
Getting people to be pro iran, pro russia, pro DPRK is much better, but using any single country is a flawed aporoach
there are even retard nazis who larp the DPRK because of their twisted idea of it, so any single litmus test will have a high false positive rate.
>>2927036But Ukraine supporters don't really support Palestinian resistance though, as they back western imperialism when it comes down to it
There's a difference between just saying you support this or that and actually having a principled stance.
Regardless I agree that having a single litmus test is a flawed way to do things. But if there was such a thing it'd be Palestine
>>2927035He's also wrong as a matter of fact about the intention of the original law. The GRA2004 explicitly renders a trans woman a woman for all legal purposes. It explicitly gives the example of the sex discrimination act 1975 as a piece of legislation so affected. The supreme Court in its infinite wisdom decided that since the SDA1975 defined sex biologically, the EA2010 (which repealed the SDA1975) should too, even though the GRA2004 had obviously happened in the mean time (Clue's in the dates). Whatever your view on the issue this was ridiculous sophistry not to mention deeply unconstitutional (it crosses over from "interpreting the law" into re-writing it, which is parliament's job.)
There are a million other little details, administrative guidance and such - not to mention EVERYONE interpreting the EA2010 consistently with the GRA2004 until this ruling - that reinforce this point further. The only way one can plausibly support the ruling is by letting anti-trans sentiment cloud their judgement (with or without the misconception that the UK supreme court is, like the American, a sort of tripartite separation of powers thing which is allowed to play silly buggers to constrain the legislature. It isn't, parliament is sovereign in Britain and that's that.)
>>2927035>personally I think gender is a cope for the fact that we do not yet have the technology to change someone's sex. when/if we do, this whole debate will seem incredibly quaintI think this could happen. In fact medical advances have already made it much easier for people to change their sex characteristics compared to the past. Imagine what it will be like in the future with electronic implants and bioengineered organs. Also something to think about is how common sex and gender modification is on the right and how that plays into their own anti-trans views. Probably a lot of psychological projection involved. You see Hegseth here in the U.S. talking about needing to up our T levels (no transhumanists though!) and boost it in the military with TRT. Among conservative women you see a lot of plastic surgery and garish makeup which gets talked about in women's magazines:
https://www.women.com/2126528/close-up-face-pics-maga-women-exposed-cakey-makeup/>>2927039>But Ukraine supporters don't really support Palestinian resistance though, as they back western imperialism when it comes down to it It's weird because I've seen a lot of these people on X. Like they have a Ukraine flag and an Israeli flag in their bio. But in subcultural left spaces, art spaces (a kind of Tumblr left I suppose) there can be Palestine and Ukraine stuff together, although Palestine is far more common.
>>2927035>personally I think gender is a cope for the fact that we do not yet have the technology to change someone's sex. when/if we do, this whole debate will seem incredibly quaintSNCA but hard disagree. Actually i think people will become more psychotic, not less, about gender/gendered soul typeshit when the tech to completely change your midichlorian's sex is there. After all the trans hysteria became more pronounced, not less, since they started looking good and in many case impossible to differentiate from natal females unless gynecological inspection.
>>2927050>You see Hegseth here in the U.S. talking about needing to up our T levels (no transhumanists though!)ah yes the mtm trans dude
>>2927053>midichlorian sexthe force is strong in this one. also we should not project our current social mores on the future
>>2927057My ex russian feminist gf was in the social darwinist category. There are quite a few people in it, but its mostly just anti NATO people who hate muslims
>>2927062Main reason why i am not a zigger is there is something deeply wrong with the post 1991 russian populace
The beautiful lady😍🥰s have been trying to cancel him for years. Wouldn’t surprise me if they had something to do with it.
He should try the Workers Party or the CPGB (ML) as they seem like the only moderately sane parties in that Island shithole.
>>2927064Why would a jew worshipping radfem boomer party's decision to ban one of their own for being a man and not worshipping jews have anything to do with transgenders? They are explicitely anti-trans.
>>2927064>the transphobic party kicked him out because of le beautiful lady😍🥰sRent free
>>2927057The Tumblr furries don't get much respect, but the other three groups on the chart have an issue is that once you start doing crazy shit like using artillery and air power in urban centers, you know the thing is going to get retarded on a massive scale with a probability approaching 1. War is just mechanically bad like that. It's also why governments which do it try to keep it compartmentalized from their own normies as much as possible.
>>2927062It gets into the depths of depravity with all of this because most of the justifications for Israel going apeshit on Gaza could also be used to justify Russia smashing Grozny into a pulp, but the people on the bottom left axis will almost always talk about Russian barbarism in that case but not Israel. But you can also get some embarrassing anti-imperialist stuff that is like sorry grandma but ["geopolitics" + GWoT-inspired anti-extremism jargon] means we have to blow up your apartment building with a Scud missile.
>>2927057Upper right are dogs too lmao
>>2927074>le war badOk dude, thanks for the groundbreaking take
>>2927077Dogs of what empire? Russia? LMFAO get serious
>>2927077>Upper right are dogs too lmaothank you amadeo.
>>2926974>we have to say retarded dumb shit we don't actually believe on purpose as a propagandizing strategy so we can tail some reactionary demographicthat's stupid
>>2926974>non leftistswhy
>non westernersaren't all a bunch of homophobic troglodytes no matter how much you want to use them as a justification
>>2926975>To me he sounds like a communist trying to immitate those manosphere influencers.that's fucking dumb
>>2926995>perosnally I think the trans thing is fine, a repsonse to gendered brainrot in the west or living in the soulless west, but not that impactful on the world, but giving it any political platform or independent identity is retarded and akin to racial seperatism, zionism, or feminismThe sheer argument that "i think the trans thing is fine" already marks you as being on the issue in the west. You are leaving out the key issue that the one and only reason that the trans bathrooms and athletes are an issue at all is because the reactionaries are using it as a clumsy, awkward scapegoat. To argue that there shouldn't be anything said about it by the left is to say that the reactionaries should be allowed to target and assault whatever convenient scapegoat without pushback.
>>2926974>>2926975Not gonna lie
>i was only pretending to be retardedDoesn't make these guys seem any less clownish
>>2927039>>2927036>support support support>flags in biosupport is food money weapons first-aid etc.
>>2926985the ACP is in america. your argument is they basically need to do queerphobic rhetoric so they can be friends with houthis or something. how the fuck does that make sense. lenin's quote is in favor of shutting the fuck up about these issues and just being a communist. i wish they would do that. i wish literally any part would do that. but they don't. instead we endless idpol and unforced errors of "let me imitate manosphere chuds to appeal to the dudebros"
just shut the fuck up and do class struggle, ACP chuds.
>>2927210>class strugglenobody cares about that CIAslop you dumb baizuo, real communists are busy making sure line goes up
>>2927210From what I gather from some of their recent stuff, they also regret laying so much focus on that idpol shit lmao. Too bad the damage has been basically done and they can't seem to help themselves
They are trying to appear more reasonable/approachable on a broad front basis, but only time will tell if they'll succeed. I have my doubts
>>2927192Bottom right are Indians and Russian weebs
>>2926312thread should have ended here
>>2927203>To argue that there shouldn't be anything said about it by the left is to say that the reactionaries should be allowed to target and assault whatever convenient scapegoat without pushback.Well the more fundamental issue is that trans people will politicize around that anyways and regardless of the positions of any particular left-wing group in the absence of the government just squashing everybody on all sides by force and censorship. "The left" isn't the actor here. People are more real and their experiences are what generates their activity, ideas, and forms of organization. More concretely, when people are dehumanized and treated badly, they will get pissed off about it and start organizing and forming communities to protect themselves because that's just what people do.
But you see people do a thing all the time where they will engage in aggressive behavior to humiliate or harass a particular group, and people with a left-wing attitude oppose the harassment, and then the people doing the harassment then define "the left" with the group they're harassing as a way to sustain their own politics and define their own in-group as not like "them." Like go to any right-wing discussion and they will say communists are basically weird trans people now who only care about their genitals (which tellingly mirrors ACP people towards "the left," or what they were saying, because I haven't seen them for awhile).
You have Marxist-Leninists etc. who are like "we're not like that" but it has no effect because it's not about a competing set of ideologies in the free marketplace of ideas. Anti-trans "ideology" is more an explanation on the right for their activity in a historically specific social conflict, to hep them "make sense" of what they're doing and why trans peope are so upsetting and a threat to the social order or birth rates or the West or Russia or the white race or whatever it is. It could get really disastrous as well if some group like the ACP (maybe not them, but someone like them) also participate in the same aggressive behavior towards the people being targeted by the right wingers because functionally it's no different whatever the stated ideology is or particular symbols people are using.
>>2927222well they're not a massively distinct party without the idpol stuff, they will likely merge into one of the older parties.
>>2927283Cockshott is actually being pursued by the Red Guards for revisionism
man I'm reading the article that is getting used as proof of his homophobia here
https://paulcockshott.wordpress.com/2017/12/12/genders-or-sex-stereotypes-part-1/and it's pretty fire. I prefer his historical materialism and computer stuff but this was a very interesting criticism on the liberal definitions of gender
>>2927284no, the red guards would have loved him. part of the education reform during the cultural revolution was cutting out those contents that were too abstract, and focusing on the concrete, useful, actionable, and empirically proven contents. they would have killed you for using words like timothean and praised him for teaching people how to use the computer
Britain is not a relevant enough country for a communist party to exist there anyway, you might as well be talking about North Sentinel Island
>>2927291leave the CPNSI out of this
>>2927299A British “revolution” would suffer exactly like Cuba but wouldn’t last 3 months
It's so over for Cockshottbros…
>>2927301you didn't get anon's joke lol
>>2927400>The purpose of a system is what it doesDoes that mean the purpose of a carrot is to stuff my coworker's pussy?
>>2927402idk anon, is a carrot a system according to stafford beer?
>>2927196>>2927198>>2927197The western internet is incredibly retarded. Anyone who has been online for the last 10 years knows that basically every political subculture and movement has been either retardedly fascistic or retardedly liberal. The west lost its last real and in touch Marxist Leninist parties back in the 1970s. So the US has had 50 years of political and historical psyops muddying what marxism, organizing, communism, party building, etc are, and now the internet has accelerated that process.
So I think the ACP is trying the opposite of polite purity politics thats so common in the modern left. They have their ML lines but call you a faggot or a beta cuck or a soyboy if you dont like Stalin or Iran. Its the language of the right, the isolated male focus of the right, the internet brained tactics of the right, with the politics of contemporary MLism.
Like Haz is most well known from that WowMao vid for "chimping out" and screaming about how hes a mongoloid and the mongols were more civilized than the british empire and how he could be more racist than any westerner. On the surface its all reaction and spectacle but the underlying message was anti western, anti imperialist, and pro human (pro chimp). I think thats a little microcosm of the ACP as a whole.
>>2927203No, not at all.
Its a recationary scapegoat because its also a leftist sacred calf. Bougie academia and political psyops have pushed caring about trans people to the center of american internet politics. It infests everything. It is encouraged from both sides, as all political psyops are, and caring about it is pointless. Its such an irrelevent minority of mostly terminally online and pornbrained westerners.
All the issues in the world and a westerners personal gender insecurity is whats made important!
>>2927475>I have spent the last 10 years reading mentally ill americans on the internet>THEREFORE>communist parties have fallen>it's overif you want to talk about the internet, just talk about the internet. you sound crazy out of touch when you try to comment on irl stuff
>>2927477Trans issues were barely a thing fifteen, let alone twenty years ago. All you're doing is telling me that you have very little memory of such.
>>2927479they were always a thing they just weren't talked about as much.
>>2927475I can see how it would be tempting if you were really online (not like me at all of course… heh… uhh) to act really retarded to get attention to reboot Marxism-Leninism for a new generation. But what might be good for getting attention on the internet might also be inimical to forms of IRL organization that can do anything that isn't just performative and set up to serve social media anyways. I realize they probably understood this and formed an organization but it's probably the case that almost everyone who joined did so because they followed them on social media and share a particular aesthetic… which others find repulsive, and that others find it repulsive might also be constituent to how the online community forms in the first place because that's part of how the online community defined itself, that "we're not like those other leftists." But a mass organization requires people who don't share the same aesthetic to come together. So it's quite a paradox.
BTW I saw a German media bit on a (now outlawed) Islamist organization called Muslim Interaktiv. I don't know what Der Spiegel's angle was on it because I don't speak German, but it was fascinating to watch because the group built itself around a streamer named Joe "Raheem" Boateng. They would start having demonstrations and it would be a couple hundred guys listening to another guy screaming hysterically.
>>2927285I don't even disagree with his attack on Judith Butler and gender. The problem is that he uses it as an excuse to attack transexuals (and that he uses obfuscationist philosophical jargon).
It's part 2 which is embarrassingly bad, where he starts off by arguing in favour of gender through "socialisation", and where he just says totally subjective things like that transexuality erodes female legal privilege (what privilege?) and that transexuals imitate female identity which can only exist through "bodily continuity" (what does this mean?).
So while at first it seems like he is against gender, when it comes to transexuals he is its biggest defender, just that he thinks gender is totally tied to birth. It is just vibes, because his position is actually based on chauvinism and nothing else. He is a Goebbels and should be treated as such, and if nothing else using formal logic should result in a good beating.
>>2927501Also he is homophobic because he thinks homosexuality is socially conditioned, and therefore homosexuals should undergo conversion therapy to turn them straight so they can contribute to increasing the birth rate. If you can't understand how this is a repulsive position (especially someone positioning himself alongside "feminists") you should hang yourself right now.
>>2927475It's a streamer party where they chant "Allah Cosmos Xi Xingping", it's not going anywhere.
>>2927035Sex can be changed already. The transphobes want to ban this and turn transexuals into gender nonconforming men who do not pass and are "ugly". Everything they say is cope for how we can already do sex changes and the only problem is that they gatekeep it, also capitalism necessarily means it won't be accessible to everyone.
>>2927510not to be pedantic but genetic chromosomal sex cannot be changed, it's hardwired at the moment of conception just like jesus's unconditional love. but regardless of that, what people don't understand about sex is that it is just one single biological factor among many many others which can influence a person's personal gender identity, and the relationship between these low-level biological traits and the high-level psychology of gender identity is not deterministic, just as a person's height is not deterministic of whether or not they identify as a basketball player. people who are tall may be more likely to identify as basketball players because their height gives them a small amount of competitive and conformative advantage in the sport and society tends to exaggerate and hyperfocus on this advantage and encourages tall people to play basketball and treat it as some kind of moral obligation where if they don't play basketball then they are defying the the will of god and forsaking their destiny, but at the end of the day basketball is just a game, it's just a human construct, and there is absolutely nothing in our innate human biology that dictates whether or not we should play basketball.
>>2927488Well thats what ACP is doing i think. I dont live in america but the actual ACP socials are all vids of community organizing, community kitchens, establishing party (CP) houses and businesses
the Haz and Infrared thing is seperate from ACP itself, even if he is the chairman. Infrared is terminal brainrot recruitment and ACP is the IRL traditional.party.building
>>2927478American Communist and Socialist Parties have been overwhelmingly revisionist, sectional, or inffective since the 1970s and the New Left/Compatible left movements, thats. just a fact
like CPUSA, PSL, RCP, FRSO, PCUSA, DSA etc have all generally had either bad lines or failed to become mass organizations
>>2927527Thats why im starting a new party
>>2927526Like what "community organizing" or businesses though. Maybe they will prove me wrong but I think most of that is an appearance to have something to show on social media which is the primary thing. I don't think it's so clearly seperated because the people who join the group do so because they watch Infrared mainly and then they go out and take pictures of themselves looking like they're doing something. But the primary function of the IRL activity is to generate more social media content.
>>2927527>>2927526the ACP is literally like a thousand people spread out across the entire country, i'm not sure why they're supposed to be the New Bolsheviks. The other orgs that I've seen on the ground aren't hugely different from the ACP they're just not bringing it online every time they sneeze
>>2927510>Sex can be changed alreadyno it cannot. actual sex change would be way more invasive. I am not aware of any trans person being able to *perform* as their desired sex. that is, everyone that goes through "sex" change has mock genitals that don't work. you might also need to change the genes enough that they provide the necessary "support system" to facilitate reproduction in both sexes
reading this thread sucks, just a ton of people insulting trans people, others having debates about trans people, others defending them. it would be great if the people who claim to uphold "doctrine of the conditions of the liberation of the proletariat" could stop letting reactionary rhetoric about obscure minority groups frame their understanding of those groups, rather than letting those groups speak for themselves on matters of their own rights.
>>2927619insulting peoples' genitals and dehumanizing them based on their reproductive capabilities, sometimes the anti-trans rhetoric becomes indistinguishable from that used by Nazis. maybe it's because Nazis were the original pioneers of anti-trans propaganda. crazy to think it's acceptable to spread that kind of propaganda on a communist board.
>>2927510>Sex can be changed alreadyIf you're a frog maybe lol
>>2927625literally coping. we don't say this about other body parts transplanted, grafted or similar. if you receive a liver transplant that doesn't work you don't go saying it's insulting to point out that your skin is yellowing. we don't pretend prosthetic arms are actually real arms. changing the names of things doesn't change the things in themselves
one day medicine may have progressed to where a trans man is able to get a trans woman pregnant. we are not there yet. hence the cope of gender
>>2927622>just a ton of people insulting trans peopleWhat are you talking about?
>>2927634So you are saying that a trans woman is a drag queen or a man because of chromosome reductionism
>>2927639I personally think these are meaningless and boring categorizations. But I was under the impression that gender =/= sex no?
Seems a bit backward to say they are the same thing, if you're a trans advocate, because then you're just setting yourself up to lose
it's interesting how a lot of very nominally science-minded atheist neckbeard types are so invested in ideas like biological determinism and reification of racial and gender and sexual-orientation categories into absolute telelogical truths. like, if you accept the idea that life is just a random freak occurrence with no creator deity orchestrating it, then wouldn't it follow that biology has no inherent design or purpose or deterministic end? if you already accept that things as huge and complex as planets and stars and galaxies have no purpose and are just natural formations that come together as a result of interacting physical forces and do not follow any prescribed pattern or formula, why would an organism be any different? why would it matter to you which chromosomes or sexual organs we designate as "masculine" or "feminine" if you are approaching this from the rigorous non-committal impartial observer point of view that any real scientist is supposed to have?
So, this is the Reddit thread?
>>2927619Actually, womb transplants are now possible and they just have not been tried on trans women. But I think you would think of another way to hate us when that happens.
>>2927640Gender = / = sex is an immense strategic blunder from the tumblr types. It never used to be that way but gender ideology took off and now we unfortunately have to live with it being woke to say that you can't change your sex.
>>2927711So you think that sex = gender? And that when you take hormones and get surgery you're actually changing your biological sex literally?
Sounds delusional to me
>>2927719>Sounds delusional to meits a maotard, what else did you expect
>>2927722Yeah I mean I've seen S post some retarded shit before, but they really don't know how to put the breaks on lol
>>2927724Bro thinks when he cuts his hair he's changing his biology lmao
>>2927727Uygha I'm not referring to that. And I disagree with S on gender. Gender =/= sex is not normative, it is a description of the way society works in the 21st century. You mentioned hormones - they do in fact change you biologically, because sex is not binary, but rather a bimodal distribution. If I went to your house with a rusty hatchet and cut your balls off, you would no longer qualify as what we consider to be a biological male due to your hormonal and reproductive makeup being changed. Your body would respond accordingly to the lack of testosterone and it would begin to change. That's how biological sex works. Nevertheless, we consider you a man, because you identify and act like a man. That's how gender works.
The fact the thread has devolved into an argument on gender is exactly my point about it being a convoluted meaningless psyop to split communist politics
>>2927735S speaker is right and the retards berating them can fuck off and kill themselves they are no use to any movement and only serve to felate some tired old dinosaur boomer who's politics is toxic enough they have to attach themselves to rapists and revisionists.
>>2927732I think I would still qualify as a biological male, I would be neither intersex nor female, biologically, if you cut off my balls with said rusty hatchet. Same with women who have their ovaries removed, it doesn't mean they're suddenly not biological women lol
>>2927737Quit spazzing out retard, it'd take a theorist like Dickblast over some retarded schizo on an imageboard any day
There's nothing particularly toxic about his politics, let alone somehow attached to rapists or "revisionism". You sound completely deranged
>>2927741Rapists- are alba and salmonds 10+ accusers of sexual assault.
Revisionists- cpb, need i say any more?
We get it you have no idea about uk politics, tourist.
>>2927739It does mean that from a purely biological point of view, you would be intersex, either closer to the middle or to the male side of the spectrum depending on the strength of your preexisting sex characteristics and whether you pursue medical intervention like TRT or we find a way to put the sack back on while preserving its function. Refer to the following as well:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/beyond-xx-and-xy-the-extraordinary-complexity-of-sex-determination/If engels were alive he would agree with me.
>>2927743>alba and salmondsWhat because Cockshot founded a party with and wrote a blogpost saying that the (now dead) acquitted man is probably not guilty?
I admit Im not expert on the brits and their retarded politicians, but I don't see this as particularly outrageous. Ohhhh he was in a party where some other guy was accused of something oooooh
Big whoop, that doesn't make S not a retard
>Revisionists- cpb, need i say any more?Yes, isn't CPB just an ML party? What alternative party is out there in britain that's not revisionist according to your retarded ass?
We get it you're a shizo spaz
>>2927746None of this says anything about castration making you not a biological male lol. It's mostly about developmental stuff, not mutilation. Are circumcised males also less biologically male, because a typical biological male has his foreskin?
Dumb
>>2927751>What because Cockshot founded a party with and wrote a blogpost saying that the (now dead) acquitted man is probably not guilty? It makes Cockshot a retard for falling over himself to defend someone the entire wider public have shunned for being a rapist who takes backhands from the upper class to do shit like vote against gay marriage.
His own layers reffered to him as a sex pest, the bougie courts have less than 5% conviction rate for sexual assault/rape crimes in Scotland, him being found 'not guilty' isnt indicative of his innocence. Il take the word of over 13 women accusing him of being a creepy rapist over a bougie court and police force.
>Yes, isn't CPB just an ML party? What alternative party is out there in britain that's not revisionist according to your retarded ass?The CPB has about 10 members and are most known for getting endorsed by….JK rowling.
>>2927758didn't answer the question award
>>2927759I could care less if they put '-leninist' in the party memos, the actions they take speak well enough for them.
Not exactly Engels 2 is it lmao
>>2927755>None of this says anything about castration making you not a biological male lol. It's mostly about developmental stuff, not mutilation. What kind of development do you think would ensue in that hypothetical scenario? Whether manmade or a result of genetic chance, material reality changes.
>Are circumcised males also less biologically male, because a typical biological male has his foreskin?That's a very small and cosmetic change, and without much impact on your primary or secondary sexual characteristics besides fucking up your orgasms and making the place slightly easier to clean. On the other hand, if you were to take opposite sex's hormones, it would change the genetic expression of your entire body, and it has to, otherwise it would have no effect on anyone. This is in fact a vindication of dialectical materialism.
>>2927761Which party in britain is not "revisionist" according to you?
I personally don't think a party's stance on transgender-ness makes it revisionist or not
>>2927764None, the UK is a quagmire of shit and piss and all the parties are fucked.
>>2927765Ok then bringing up revisionism was pointless wasn't it? Any party he'd be in would be revisionist in your eyes dumbass
>>2927766When given the choice choosing the party ran by a disgraced sex pest with no MPs or the CPB who also have no political power and no members under the age of 50 says a lot.
>>2927762Idk man, asserting that women who've had ovarian cancer are less women sounds a bit dicey to me, but you do you
>>2927767And what party pray tell do you choose then? Or are you just whining to whine?
>>2927769I'm not saying they are less women. They live in society as women and nobody should take that away from them. Hence gender =/= sex.
>>2927774But you are saying they are less woman biologically because of their hormones n shit
>>2927770When given no good options the smart move is to make your own or not play.
>>2927779And you've made your own or you're not playing (doing nothing)?
>>2927780>and what about YOUwe're not talking about me are we?
>>2927775Purely biologically, yes
>>2927781Yeah we are, because you were the one sperging out about Cockshot and defending S the megatard
>>2927784I see where you're coming from, but that's a bit dicey for my tastes, I wouldn't go there ngl
>>2927784darwinist ass shit, there is more to a human than an incoherent reading of bougie biology.
>>2927787My opinions on UK parties have been shared, try reading. I engage in direct action, anything else is LARPing.
>>2927792Being in a party is essential, it's a bit retarded to talk about revisionism and certainly you don't have to tell me to kill myself over this Cockshot/S disagreement when you yourself are not even in a party lol. Seems to me you're just upset about your pet issue. I get it living in the UK must be tough and I don't envy you, but you gotta calm down and be a bit more objective alright? Kisses darling
>>2927751So you don't actually know what you're talking about, you don't know what the CPB is or what the situation is in Scotland. Maybe all this talk of "retard" is a bit of projection. I don't believe in insulting people with ableist words like that, but you seem very slow, or at least ignorant, with your responses asking what is wrong with Cockshott (or you are doing it wilfully in order to frustrate the conversation)
If you'd read the CPB's British Road to Socialism you would understand they are a Eurocommunist party. Their road to socialism is taking part in elections and tailing the labour party. Btw even Cockshott himself thinks that there is no effective communist party which is why he joins liberal ones. This is his video about it, and like much of its content it reveals how he does not really hold a political line, and is just an old revisionist social-fascist who will hopefully die of old age soon.
>>2927800Are you an American in the ACP?
>>2927800see
>>2927802even dickblast agrees with me, there are no good options in the UK.
'Just start a party' - If you understood how lethal the UK media is you'd understand I may as well just shoot myself. I do what I can in the face of things and organize, but the nature of UKpol is that radicals more or less need to be de-centralized.
the discussion ITT about whether gender and sex are the same thing make it very clear that gender as a concept exists solely to facilitate sophistry
>>2927732>If I went to your house with a rusty hatchet and cut your balls off, you would no longer qualify as what we consider to be a biological male due to your hormonal and reproductive makeup being changedemasculation does in fact make someone less of a man. this works perfectly well for other species: a gelding is not a stallion
>>2927815I think that there are genuine feminine man or masculine woman, I think is a spectrum, but I sure believe that people peddling " there are 1 billions genders or I'm queerfluid non binary" aren't thar well in the head, I met transsexuals more rational and don't deny biology that some of those queer people you see online.
>>2927802I am not british no, I don't know everything about everything. That's why I ask when Im not familiar with something. I call you a retard because of your previous behavior and exclamations on this site. Also you're a "maoist" of the more retarded variety (western/british)
>If you'd read the CPB's British Road to Socialism you would understand they are a Eurocommunist party.Parliamentary politics does not a a eurocommunist party make. From what I gather, CPB has never called itself such and was actually founded/split because of their disagreement with such tendencies. I also do not see how that program advocates tailism
<Almost since its formation, the Labour Party has been the mass party of the organised working class. It continues to enjoy the electoral support of large sections of workers. But its politics and ideology have been those of social democracy, seeking to manage and reform capitalism in response to the immediate temporary interests of the labour movement, instead of abolishing it in the fundamental interests of the working class and humanity.
<The Labour Party has never fundamentally challenged the ruling class. At best, it has only reflected and represented the ‘trade union consciousness’ of the working class in political life. The reformist outlook that dominates Labour confines the party to an exclusively parliamentary role within the capitalist system. It sees its campaigning work almost entirely in terms of participation in elections and carries out little or no socialist education.I also never made the outrageous claim that CPB is the best party for britain or something, I dont care/know enough about it to make that claim, but I wouldn't denounce someone for being in it either, especially if Im not even in a party lol. Glass houses and all that
>and like much of its content it reveals how he does not really hold a political lineI don't think that's what the video shows, sure he's not a hardliner or smt, but he quite clearly has a political orientation.
>and is just an old revisionist social-fascist who will hopefully die of old age soonlarp
>>2927805I am neither in the ACP, nor american. A bit strange to bring them up out of nowhere tho
>>2927806>even dickblast agrees with me, there are no good options in the UK.And yet he was in a party and you are not
>'Just start a party' - If you understood how lethal the UK media is you'd understand I may as well just shoot myself.I am familiar with UK media dumbass, many people start parties, join/make one or stop crying
>I do what I can in the face of things and organize, but the nature of UKpol is that radicals more or less need to be de-centralized.That is bullshit and you know it. It's fine if you can't find a party to join at this moment, but how can you be talking about revisionism and shit when you don't even want a party and instead want to anarchist it up? You're the original revisionist lol
>>2927815>the discussion ITT about whether gender and sex are the same thing make it very clear that gender as a concept exists solely to facilitate sophistryI agree, but that also goes for 90% of the discussion on this site
>>2927829>And yet he was in a party and you are notBeing in a defunct explicitly not socialist party isnt any measure of sucsess, im in the waiting room while someone earns my vote - for then il organize with those I know share my values and reach out to the public with marxist reasoning and aesthetics.
>>2927829You're a revisionist. There's not really any point discussing this further with you, since that would be like trying to convince a capitalist to be socialist. We have irreconcilable stances since you support capitalism as an economic system and I am a communist. I'm not going to waste any more time talking to a dog like you.
>>2927849>retard that thinks socialism in one country is anything but a socdem pipedream calling others revisionistnever gets old
>>2927849>Im a maotard so Im not even gonna bother trying to make an argumentYeah to be expected honestly
>>2927843It's quite explicitly a communist party tho, being named the communist party lol
>m in the waiting room while someone earns my vote>share my valuesCringe lib reasoning. Glad we're done here
Are all british people this retarded or what?
>>2927815so i'm less of a man because I was circumcised against my will as a child? nice dude. nice.
>>2927857Yes, Jewboy. You are less of a man because your Jew family cut your foreskin off. Retarded question.
>>2927823Ridiculous headline. If anything, she is comparing the pro-trans movement to Hitler
>>2927815>emasculation does in fact make someone less of a man. this works perfectly well for other species: a gelding is not a stallionthat's only because we define animals by their use-value lol. besides nobody calls a male dog with no balls a 'gelding'
>>2927857I'm sorry that happened to you
Cockshott is not worth any more time than any other boomer crank tilting at windmills
>>2927969That's a lot of words to say nothing of importance.
^ this is the guy calling you an anti-intellectual for knowing math
>>2927711Gender ideology has existed since humans have had culture and it has always been separate from sex. Embarrassing that as a supposed Marxist you do not know this
>>2927502>he thinks homosexuality is socially conditioned, and therefore homosexuals should undergo conversion therapy to turn them straightBullshit but whatever, it actually doesn't matter what Cockshott thinks. People take this thread as an opportunity to talk about how much they like or dislike the purged person's positions on this or that. But the news here isn't that this guy exists, the news is that the CPGB is a train wreck lacking in basic principles of administration. This has become visible, irrespective of the qualities of the purged person.
>>2928131if homosexuality was genetic why would it proliferate more as gay people stop "faking straightness" and thus stop reproducing?
It would be a genetic condition that quite literally self terminates reproduction, itd be a genetic dead end.
>>2928166
since when i get laid plenty?
>>2928173I'd have to see what data theyre working from.
Like in a very general way, we could say that their homosexuality might arise from idolizing and loving their older brothers, and that adopted kids tend to not have as strong fraternal connections due to past trauma or age of adoption
>>2928173I wonder if the opposite is true for muscle women fetishes and having older sisters
>>2927914I mean kinda but not really, yes she is saying trans people are the 'big lie' but she is also supporting Hitler's ideas and saying he was right
>>2926583Cockshott has come up with the line that women are becoming lesbians to deal with economic contraction
>>2928163>It would be a genetic condition that quite literally self terminates reproduction, itd be a genetic dead end.This is an ultra-individualist view of genetics that just does not work and doesn't even make sense under the most primitive mendelian models as recessive traits can last basically indefinitely, and when admitting epigenetics and polygenetic trait expression is just bunk.
It appears Paul Cockshott has…Cocked his last Shott (with the communist party of Great Britain).
>>2928649So? Idk if I'd put it as women "becoming" lesbians for one particular reason, but economic conditions certainly have a lot to do with how we organize our families
>>2928649Being in a scotish independence party as a scotish socialist is still better than being in no party at all
Eurosocialism is not a term, I'm guessing you mean eurocommunist? What makes CPB eurocommunist? Please cite actual party positions or program rather than being like "they just are ok???"
>>2928678Alba was not an independence party, it was a conservative/TERF/sex pest party which mainly wanted to wreck the main pro independence socdem party. It never managed to get a single representative elected at any level, even local councils. A sincere socialist pro independence person would've joined the SNP or Greens for electoral relevance or the Scottish socialist party for principle + next best chance.
The only reason to join Alba is social reaction or criminal liability, and virtueless though he is I don't think Cockshott was going for the latter.
>>2928704>Alba was not an independence party, it was a conservative/TERF/sex pest partyJust stop replying to me dude, by all accounts it was an independence party and a left oriented one at that, you just saying it's not because they're not on the same page as you about gender issues doesn't make it so. This shit is so retarded and you have nothing to bring to the table but your own outrage about your pet issue that I don't care about.
>>2928713"By all accounts" lol lmao, maybe on their own website. You'll really, really struggle to find a positive account of the Alba party even from former members. All the other pro independence parties (which were also left wing!!) rejected working with them. It accused the SNP of funding gay groups that wanted to lower the age of consent to 10 (because all gays are pedos, you see), it was lead by a man accused of sexual assault by like 12 people who was found "not proven" (e.g. Scottish for "not guilty but don't do it again") and started accusing the SNP leader of putting them up to it to get him, which had a range of other opportunistic right wing stances (anti windfarm, for example, even though scotland is one of the best places in europe for it). Their purported social democratic economic platform is irrelevant in a Scottish context (Scottish Labour also claim such a platform, Scottish Labour are also right wing.)
They also regularly went on GB news (right wing British nationalist channel basically used to AstroTurf Nigel farage) to pander to that audience.
But all of this would be irrelevant if it worked, if they got elected I could not fault them for widening the pro independence coalition. They would have succeeded on their own terms. But it didn't! The worst thing about Alba is not being right wing, it's being a dud! There are better dud parties for a communist to join! Its dud status alone reflects a failure of judgement even before you factor the wider context of its existence.
>>2928704Plus, since their leader died, they've pretty much foundered even more, and according to Wikipedia, they are now dissolved
Wouldn't be surprised if, when George Galloway dies, the WPB goes along with it
>>2929022>Doesn't live in scotland>Skims wikipediaYou'd also think Scottish labour is left wing, you retard. Don't talk about subjects you know nothing about.
>>2929024I said it was a Scottish independence party, and a left oriented one at that, which it is no matter hpw much you cope about it being terf or whatever the fuck. Labour is also left oriented. Whether they are revolutionary or radical parties is a different question
Can we end with the cope now? I don't give a shit about windmills and how much you personally like Alba or not
>>29290621) You were the one who started sperging out at my factual assertion that it was left oriented. Being in a failed independence party is again still better than being in no party at all
2) Irrelevant, furthers my point if anything
3) I cannot speak for Cockshot, but from snooping around a little bit I guess I'd say he probably thought the SNP/Greens are eurococksuckers. And other boring interparty issues that have little to do with your particular obsessions around windmills or trans people or whatever
<It is understandable, that the SNP, who are now a neo-liberal, rightist pro-EU party would put forward a slogan that sees a second Scottish independence referendum as a way of staying in the EU. But since as socialists we want to leave the EU it is difficult to see how we can support this objective.Pretty funny considering all the hubub you retards gave me about eurocommunism in this discussion. Regardless, none of the other parties achieved anything of note either so the point is again moot
>>2929071The SNP and Greens were in government (the greens joining after the election) and the SSP at least hasn't collapsed, that's far more than can be said for Alba.
>>2927625The nazis didnt came up with this nor were their worldview as fundamentaly transphobic as modern evangelicattle/radfem/cons, the nazis were also very racist and anti-women liberation while most of these people arent.
People like this have very uncertain and changing expectations when it comes to "performing as the other sex" and they would still be picking hairs even if chromosome changing or soul surgery becomes possible. In fact the last decade and a half of trans have shown us that the more performant, good looking, economically succesful and assimilated the median trans becomes the more the "common sense havers" becomes insane about it; as i pointed out earlier in the thread.
>>2929079>The SNP and Greens were in governmentSo? What did that achieve? Some might consider the principled stance of a party to be more important than its particular electoral victories. Might as well just join the labour party if that's what you deem important, eurococksucker
Is this really your final cope then? Pure parliamentarianism?
After all that chestpuffing about revisionism yesterday lmfao
>>2929087>Some might consider the principled stance of a party to be more important than its particular electoral victoriesYes, but then you wouldn't pick the Alba party for your principles unless you believed in them! And we know independence can't be the principle because the CPB is opposed to independence and the SSP - an explicitly socialist party - is not and was ignored.
You cannot have it both ways: if power matters then Alba was a dud, and if principles matter Alba was a bigger dud it existed entirely so Alex salmond could use culture war issues to split the SNP, failed, and died with him.
>>2929089I don't care about your personal feeling towards these parties you retarded faggot. Neither me nor Cockshot are/were advocating for joining alba or its validity as a party or something. All he did was talk about/defend it on his blog one time. As far as I can tell Cockshot was never a member either
Your spergout made me think his involvement was actually much more severe lmao, he's actually barely involved if at all. Christ what a waste of time. Remind me to never speak to retarded brits ever again
>>2927972the TLDR is Hegel's dialectical philosophy smuggles in assumptions that have since been disproven by computer science and information theory, yet people continue to hold onto these assumptions because it "sounds Marxist" to them. Marx is "half Hegelian" and "turned Hegel on his head" instead of abandoning his faulty tools altogether. Human brains and other finite systems cannot transgress the inherit limits of computation. Any suggestion otherwise is an accidental return to Cartesian dualism.
>>2927625>aybe it's because Nazis were the original pioneers of anti-trans propaganda.but anon the "gorkyposters" keep telling me Stalin said "an idiot and a degenerate. archive" and keep spamming me with pics of crossdressing nazis, so who am I to believe?
>>2929162Source: your delusions
>>2929164
what book
All the Alba stuff is a distraction from the fact his essay defending Salmond commits statistics 101 fallacies like treating all the accusations as independent events. (When in fact they were all obviously linked: he was not facing several random charges of assault, but linked ones.)
This is not about salmond but about numbers. It throws the rest of his work into doubt.
>>2927969Cockshott is right about Hegel being wrong and that it should be excised from Marx but this leaves us with less answers than more.
>>2929164
>bourgeois sexual tendencies
such as
>>2928654I don't think homosexuality is very common in hunter gatherer tribes, if it even exists. They associate it with city living. If an animal only exhibits behavior in captivity, if you don't want to call it unnatural, okay, pick a word that won't get people angry at you, I can't think of any off hand.
>If you put him in charge we'd up with numbers for names like in that Zamyatin novel where people take out pink tickets to have sex at regularly scheduled times with partners matched up on a computer.Not bad. Eventually we won't have sex at all just have artificial wombs and a state run bio-factories. Produce humans to a plan like any other good. Then people can be engineered to not have a sex drive and spend that energy on something useful.
>>2929164
>bourgeois sexual tendencies
i'm a heterosexual working class father. if my kid grows up to be gay does that make them bourgeois despite their class position? What is this idpol nonsense?
>>2929578>They associate it with city living. If an animal only exhibits behavior in captivity, if you don't want to call it unnatural,<Not bad. Eventually we won't have sex at all just have artificial wombs and a state run bio-factories. what the hell are you even advocating for or even a position from?
>>2929582People too pozzed to realize they got spooked by the gays, it overrides all critical facilities and they can only constantly think about fem cock 24/7
>>2929589The point of communism is to rationalize all aspects of human production, to abolish anarchic production, that includes sexual reproduction.
>>2929578>I don't think homosexuality is very common in hunter gatherer tribes, if it even exists. They associate it with city living. It might be more common in settled human civiliations.
>If an animal only exhibits behavior in captivity, if you don't want to call it unnatural, okay, pick a word that won't get people angry at you, I can't think of any off hand.I just don't think there's a sustainable philosophical distinction between natural and artificial. Marx described human beings as natural beings who transform their environment through labor which then transforms them. In any case it's happening in the material universe and not entering this plane through some interdimensional portal. But there might be certain social conditions that make behavior like homosexuality difficult to practice.
BTW Cockshott is also concerned about falling birth rates and thinks socialism could reverse that via socializing childcare along with other measures. Maybe but I somehow doubt it. Also I think he's probably right that TFR suffered when transitioning to capitalism in a quite bad fashion. But both Cuba's and North Korea's birth rates (according to their own data) are below replacement. Asian countries with more conservative gender roles than many Western countries have lower birth rates. The only rich country where the population even actually looks like a pyramid is Israel (of all places). Where birth rates were actually quite high (like in the hunter gatherer scenario), it was probably due to the violence of their environment where anyone alone would be eaten by tigers or killed or raped by the other tribe of hunter gatherers. Threat of death works on people's monke brains so they reproduce more. It wasn't that long ago in human history that coercion of the natural environment was also very severe. So maybe in socialism we can increase TFR by periodically introducing armed raiders that frequently murder people into the environment.
>>2929612Having the purge but in communism
>>2928654I must say you have a weird & irritating obsession with that novel dear enemy. Don't worry though, you won't have to live through anything like it since the idea is to have you swiftly summarily executed.
>>2929612I don't think hunter-gatherers have a particularly high TFR, although it might depend on the environment, but my understanding is they tend to breast feed a long time which depresses fertility, women have a kid every 2-4 years which is higher than ours to be sure. It's subsistence farmers who breed like rabbits which is what helped them push out hunter-gatherers.
>>2926686>August letter>sent in Aprilwhat did Marx mean by this?
>>2929637august (adjective) : marked by majestic dignity or grandeur
If your fantasies of the future involve turning back the clock you're a delusional idiot.
>>2929650There’s a finite amount of resources that are possible to exploit
>>2929650True. The time of neoliberalism, social democracy, and socialism have ended. They won't come back. Something new and terrible will take their place. Maybe they'll put chips in our head so we're always good boys and girls. That would be historically progressive (more rational control of production).
>>2929637The guy's name was August Vogt. There's also August Bebel. Or is this supposed to be a who's on 1st kinda joke.
>>2927030Charlotte is so hot.
>>2926900The western "left" are fascists who are also soy and weak.
See Azov Battalion
See Israel
See the US Military
See the EU
See Canada
>>2929612>threat of death>israelThe number of people actually killed by terrorists is unfathomably low compared to other causes of death
>>2929734No. Israel is run by a terrorist group and they've killed countless.
>>2929736Kek. Holy based, so true
>>2929603Functionally this is not possible because human society is not fully rational.
>>2929603>>2929755State mandated gfs wen
>>2928647>This is an ultra-individualist viewThat person talks like that in general in this thread, see:
>>2927709>womb transplants are now possibleNot artificial wombs, but transplanted real ones. Somebody who is aware that we live in a society would ask how these are to be procured. But I guess to that anon, it's like these things come into existence out of nothing in the act of obtaining (buying?) them.
>>2929925you could get them from someone who doesn't want theirs
It's genuinely very funny that the ACP is such a poison that other opportunist and social fascist parties are tearing off limbs to save the body.
>>2926561>Communism is when we "do something"It's so telling that all people have to fall back on to make these vapid defenses of indefensible parties everywhere. is just parroting the US Democratic Party.
>>2931515So what’s the positive, defensible alternative to all the social chauvinist opportunist parties? I don’t see any successful PPWs happening but maybe I’m stupid, they never outright lose but they seem to just slowly dwindle into irrelevance especially as the peasants become proletarianized, move into the cities, and lose the farmland that could theoretically feed a People’s Army
>>2929732>The western "left" are fascists who are also soy and weak. >See Azov Battalion Mhmm sure. See when this started I was like well at least these guys will get killed and then Russia traded their command structure captured at Mariupol
back to Ukraine for Medvedchuk while having ranted about executing them all for months, and now it's no longer a battalion but, like, three brigades so ꑭAzovꑭ is now way bigger.
>>2929732>The western "left" are fascists who are also soy and weak. <proceeds to list right wingersah but you put scare quotes around "left" implying therefore that they are, above all else, the leftmost people in the west. very good. amazing opinion. very cool. there is nobody in the entire west to the left of the azov battalion. nope. don't even try to investigate this claim. it's irrefutable. pack it up.
>>2931516Your main question was already answered by Lenin a century ago:
>It is impossible to carry out the tasks of Socialism at the present time, it is impossible to achieve real international unity of the workers, without a determined rupture with opportunism and explaining to the masses the inevitability of its bankruptcy.<The War and Russian Social-DemocracyEven if you believe that these Parties aren't completely opportunist, and have revolutionary elements, Lenin said:
>It is absolutely essential to split the most revolutionary elements off from the 'centre'; this can be done only by the ruthless criticism and exposure of the 'centrist' leaders. The organizational break with the 'centre' is an absolute historical necessity.<Theses on the Basic Tasks of the Communist InternationalThe main task is to unite around revolutionary ideology, and in so doing rupture with and isolate revisionism, opportunism, and social chauvinism. The solution certainly isn't to just join an existing Party because you can't be bothered to do the hard work of organizing a revolutionary force that can supplant its influence among the genuinely revolutionary sections of the population. Unity is a great thing, but we need to discern between the unity of Revolutionary Communist forces and the unity of "Communists" with opportunists:
>Unity — a great cause and a great slogan! But the workers' cause requires the unity of the Marxists and not the unity of the Marxists with the opponents and distorters of Marxism.<Unity & Disruption of Unity Under Cover of Outcries for UnityThe revolutionary forces must grasp the roots of the opportunism which exists in their countries, and struggle against it to build the subjective forces for revolution. Within countries like the UK and US this root was already identified by Lenin and the Comintern:
>I would like to say only a few words about Comrade Crispien…. His speech is a most important document, and expresses explicitly the political line of the Right wing of the Independent Social-Democratic Party.>Since we have a good revolutionary party worthy of the name of Communist, it should conduct propaganda for the dictatorship of the proletariat, as distinct from the old conception of the Second International. This has been glossed over and obscured by Comrade Crispien, which is the fundamental error common to all of Kautsky’s adherents.>… a struggle of trends must and does exist: one trend is that of the revolutionary workers who have just joined us and are opposed to the labour aristocracy; the other is that of the labour aristocracy, which in all civilised countries is headed by the old leaders….>In what kind of tone does Comrade Crispien speak of the split? He has said that the split was a bitter necessity, and deplored the matter at length. That is quite in the Kautskian spirit. Who did they break away from?… In the first place, this was done too late. Since we are on the subject, that has to be said. Second, the Independents should not deplore this, but should say: “The international working class is still under the sway of the labour aristocracy and the opportunists.”… Then Crispien went on to speak of high wages. The position in Germany, he said, is that the workers are quite well off compared with the workers in Russia or in general, in the East of Europe. A revolution, as he sees it, can be made only if it does not worsen the workers’ conditions “too much”. Is it permissible, in a Communist Party, to speak in a tone like this, I ask? This is the language of counter-revolution…. If, in desiring to prepare the workers for the dictatorship, one tells them that their conditions will not be worsened “too much”, one is losing sight of the main thing, namely, that it was by helping their “own” bourgeoisie to conquer and strangle the whole world by imperialist methods, with the aim of thereby ensuring better pay for themselves, that the labour aristocracy developed. If the German workers now want to work for the revolution they must make sacrifices, and not be afraid to do so.<Speech On The Terms Of Admission Into The Communist InternationalThe root of opportunism in the "developed" countries lies in the labor aristocracy and petty bourgeoisie, which need to be struggled against on a worldwide scale.
As for the second part of your post, it's wrong to reduce what I and Maoists advocate for to simply "PPW". I do believe that the strategy of People's War is universally correct, but I don't believe that it would be right to try to launch one in any imperialist country right now. Right now revolutionary forces need to regroup and throw off the trotskyism that presently dominates among "Marxist-Leninists" in their country, struggle for unity, and build the (principally underground) infrastructure for revolution — beginning with defensive structures led by the party, then moving to offense. Entryism, trade-unionism, etc. are dead ends well past their expiration dates, and mislead the movement into thinking the labor aristocracy is a revolutionary class.
>they seem to just slowly dwindle into irrelevance especially as the peasants become proletarianized, move into the cities, and lose the farmland that could theoretically feed a People’s Army"seem to" according to whom? I wont deny that the Indian People's War is heavily on the back foot (the Filipino struggle is the opposite). Our Indian comrades have been very upfront and honest about this. However we've heard this song and dance before. Opportunists have been arguing this has happened in India since 1967. Each time they have used this to justify not a reorientation of the Revolutionary War, but abandoning it in favor of legal careers as politicians and integration into the state. If someone has made this analysis
in India and put forward a concrete program for continuing the revolution in new conditions, that'd be all well and good, but this hasn't happened. Instead we have several capitulationist factions stumbling over one-another to make apologies and give up the fight entirely. And so the struggle continues principally in the Indian countryside, reorienting and adapting to the world around them while the opportunist CPI(Marxist) and the capitulationists fail to put up a coherent struggle against fascism, let alone capitalism.
>>2932088> (the Filipino struggle is the opposite)Any sources? I want to believe in the CPP NPA NDF, if nothing else than because the Filipino semi feudal haciendists are probably the worst political class in the world besides zionists
>>2926564critical support for the cpg
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