There is no "AI" ya nincompoops. It's just dead labor feasting on living labor.
Marx called capital "dead labor" that feasts on "living labor" because capital is the result of past human labor that has been accumulated in the form of money, machinery, factories, and other means of production, no matter how "advanced" and "futuristic" those means of production get. Although these things were created by workers, they become instruments of capitalist power when privately owned and used to generate profit. In capitalism, workers must sell their labor power to survive, producing goods and services whose value exceeds the wages they receive. The capitalist takes this surplus value and reinvests it to accumulate even more capital. Thus, “dead labor” feeds on “living labor” because the wealth created by workers in the past becomes a force that controls and exploits workers in the present, continually expanding through their labor. For Marx, this expresses the central contradiction of capitalism: human labor creates wealth, yet that wealth confronts workers as an independent power that dominates them. Now take that basic Marxian principle and apply it to "AI."
There is no magic "AI." There is an emerging body of technologies built by human beings, trained on human-generated data, powered by enormous human-built computing infrastructure, and sustained by significant human-made investments of energy, water, hardware, labor, and capital (dead labor!). Calling these technologies “artificial intelligence” can obscure more than it explains. The term encourages us to imagine an independent, almost supernatural intelligence that exists apart from human knowledge and effort, when what we actually have are complex systems that identify patterns, generate predictions, and produce outputs based on statistical relationships learned from data. That data comes, directly or indirectly, from people: their writing, research, art, expertise, experience, and accumulated cultural knowledge. These systems do not emerge from a vacuum. They are built upon the intellectual labor of human civilization, and their capabilities are inseparable from the quality, diversity, and limitations of the material on which they were trained.
The quality of these systems depends on much more than the quantity of data they consume. It depends on whose knowledge is represented, whose experience is excluded, how accurately the material reflects reality, and how effectively the system has been trained to distinguish reliable information from error. A system trained on a broad mixture of knowledgeable experts, careful researchers, skilled practitioners, and diverse perspectives may be useful in many contexts. A system trained on incomplete, biased, outdated, or poorly vetted information may reproduce those weaknesses with remarkable confidence. Even high-quality training data does not guarantee high-quality answers in every situation. These technologies can make mistakes, fabricate details, miss context, and produce plausible explanations that are fundamentally wrong. They can be powerful tools, but their outputs still require judgment, verification, and often the very expertise that people are being told they no longer need.
The most dangerous misconception is the idea that this technology is a black box into which anyone can type a request and receive an infinite supply of high-quality work at virtually zero cost. The interface may look effortless, but the infrastructure behind it is not free, the resources required to operate it are not infinite, and the quality of its output is neither unlimited nor guaranteed. The apparent simplicity of asking a question conceals layers of human engineering, training, maintenance, evaluation, and physical infrastructure. More importantly, generating an answer is not the same as knowing whether the answer is correct, useful, ethical, or appropriate. A person who understands a field of expertise can use these tools to accelerate their work, identify possibilities, and explore unfamiliar territory. A person who lacks that understanding may have difficulty recognizing when the same tools have confidently led them astray. Expertise does not become irrelevant when technology advances; in many cases, it becomes more important because someone still has to evaluate what the technology produces.
This is why the growing narrative that young people should stop pursuing education, abandon difficult skills, or give up on developing expertise because "AI is going to take their jobs" is so socially destructive. It teaches people to surrender their agency at precisely the moment when they need to become more capable, adaptable, and intellectually independent. Education is not merely vocational training for a specific job that may or may not exist in twenty years. It teaches people how to reason, investigate, solve problems, communicate, recognize flawed arguments, understand complex systems, and make responsible decisions. Learning mathematics, engineering, medicine, history, writing, art, or a skilled trade develops capacities that cannot be reduced to the production of a finished document or the completion of an isolated task. If society persuades an entire generation that learning is pointless because a machine will do everything for them, it risks creating a population increasingly dependent on systems it does not understand and increasingly unable to challenge their mistakes.
There are also serious economic and social consequences to normalizing this message. If workers come to believe that their skills are destined to become worthless, they may be less inclined to invest in education, negotiate for better working conditions, or organize to ensure that technological gains are shared fairly. Employers may use the threat of automation to suppress wages, reduce staffing, intensify workloads, or justify replacing experienced workers before they have demonstrated that the technology can reliably perform the work. Educational institutions may feel pressured to prioritize immediate technological trends over the deeper development of human capabilities. And individuals who are already anxious about their economic future may experience greater insecurity, alienation, and hopelessness. These outcomes are not inevitable consequences of the technology itself; they are consequences of how societies choose to deploy it and how people are taught to understand their own future in relation to it.
We should be having a more serious conversation. The question is not whether these technologies can be useful; clearly, they can. The question is how to use them without confusing automation with understanding, statistical prediction with wisdom, or convenience with genuine competence. We should teach people how these systems work, where their limitations lie, how to verify their outputs, and how to combine their capabilities with human knowledge and judgment. We should encourage students to learn difficult things, not because technology will never change their professions, but because people who understand the underlying principles of their work are better positioned to adapt when it does. We should demand transparency about the resources these systems consume, the labor and data on which they depend, the economic interests driving their development, and the real-world consequences of their implementation.
Ultimately, the greatest risk may not be that machines become capable of doing more of the work that people once did. It may be that people are convinced they no longer need to understand the world, develop their abilities, or take responsibility for what happens within it. Human knowledge is not an obsolete input to be consumed by a machine and discarded. It is the foundation on which these technologies are built, the standard by which their outputs must be judged, and the resource society must continue to cultivate if it wants to use them wisely. We do not need to worship "AI," nor do we need to dismiss it. We need to demystify it. These are human-made technologies with real capabilities, real costs, and real limitations. Our future will depend less on whether we can make them produce more and more output, and more on whether we remain capable of understanding, evaluating, and directing what they produce.
>>2930210people say marx is a materialist but the hegelian idealism shows real hard when he starts talking about labor. labor is an abstract entity that can be quantified in marxian economics. it's a sort of materialistic idealism, which is super cool
>>2930210>If society persuades an entire generation that learning is pointless because a machine will do everything for them, I had a friend say they wished that AI existed when they were in college a few years ago. I'm assuming so they could cheat on their assignments. Why are people so stupid, if you cheat on your assignments you didn't learn anything, rendering that money you spent on your education useless.
>>2930215>Why are people so stupid, if you cheat on your assignments you didn't learn anything, rendering that money you spent on your education useless.some people go to college to learn. but many go to college to get a piece of paper that entitles them to a high paying job.
>>2930210>Ultimately, the greatest risk may not be that machines become capable of doing more of the work that people once did. It may be that people are convinced they no longer need to understand the world, develop their abilities, or take responsibility for what happens within it.Totally right. Never surrender your ability to do things, to make things, to understand things. never disarm
>>2930216kek, another example of people doing things that annoy the heck out of me. i get it, but i am not motivated by such concerns
The magic AI myth is just a marketing trick to keep an industry going that has no prospect of being profitable in its current iteration and will probably be ground zero for the next big crisis. See the recent call for a slowdown and bullshit about the artificial intelligence "breaking out" of containment that's dripped in the language of consciousness. They know the jig is up and they can't deliver.
>>2930210TL;DR
There is no autonomous “AI,” only human-built systems trained on human-made data and run on human-built infrastructure — in Marx’s terms, dead labor (accumulated capital) feeding on living labor. The “AI” label obscures this and encourages magical thinking. Output quality depends entirely on training data and still requires expert judgment to verify. The most dangerous idea is that anyone can get infinite free high-quality work from a black box. Telling young people to abandon education because “AI will take your job” is socially destructive: it weakens workers’ bargaining power, lets employers use automation as a wage-suppression threat, and produces a population that can’t evaluate the systems it depends on. Conclusion: teach how these systems work, demand transparency, keep developing human expertise.
Counter-arguments
- The Marxian frame is doing no work. Every technology since the plow is “dead labor.” A loom, a compiler, a calculator all embody past labor and are privately owned. The argument proves either that AI is like all prior capital (true, and uninteresting) or that all capital is illegitimate (a separate claim it never defends). It explains nothing specific about AI.
- “No AI, just statistics” is a semantic dodge. Whether a system is “really” intelligent is irrelevant to the economic question. If it performs the task at lower cost, the labor-market effect is identical regardless of what we call it. Human brains are also pattern-matchers trained on data; “it’s just prediction” doesn’t tell you what it can’t do.
- It conflates “trained on human data” with “no novel capability.” Systems routinely solve problems not in their training set (new code, new proofs, protein structures). Being built from human knowledge doesn’t make output a mere reshuffling of inputs — any more than a student’s work is a reshuffling of their textbooks.
- Straw man on “stop learning.” Almost no serious voice tells young people to abandon education. The real debate is which skills — and the author’s answer (reasoning, verification, domain fundamentals) is exactly what mainstream AI-optimist advice already says. The piece agrees with its imagined opponents.
- The “expertise matters more” claim is partly true and partly wishful. Verification needs expertise — but verification is cheaper than production. You need fewer experts when the machine does the first 90%. The author treats “someone must check the output” as if it preserves current headcounts; it doesn’t. The honest version: expertise stays necessary but demand for it may fall sharply.
- Cost argument cuts the wrong way. Yes, the infrastructure is expensive — and the marginal cost per query is still collapsing year over year. Pointing at capex doesn’t rebut “cheap at the point of use”; it describes how every scalable technology works.
- The suppressed-wages mechanism isn’t AI-specific. Employers have used every productivity tool as leverage. The fix the author implies (organize, share gains) is a labor-policy argument that applies with or without AI — and the Marxian frame actually undermines it, because if capital always exploits, organizing within capitalism is futile by its own logic.
- Confident errors apply to humans too. The piece lists hallucination, missing context, plausible-but-wrong answers. Human experts do all of these at measurable rates. The relevant question is comparative error rates per cost, which the piece never engages.
What actually holds up:
The “black box, infinite free work” misconception is real and worth attacking.
The verification point (you can’t check what you don’t understand) is correct.
The transparency demand (energy, data provenance, economic incentives) is reasonable.
Education’s value beyond vocational training is a sound argument, just not an anti-AI one.
Net: the rhetoric is Marxist, the substance is a center-of-the-road AI-literacy essay. The weakest parts are the parts that make it sound radical.
>>2930210>AI is capitalShit, that changes things, hold on a sec….
Fuck AI. There we go, fixed. Rectified. You feel rectified, OP?
>>2930215Yeah man its almost like technology follows the path of least resistance in its inception and for the further development of society as we decided long ago being lazy was the shit, thus making us actually less adapted and evolved as everything gets easier over time not harder thus making us try harder or something.
Technology makes us dumber, the boomers were right TV rots your brain, so do phones and certainly would AI. But capitalism is a comfort junkieism of death-bound weak little men and whores, so ofc they're still trying to build it.
The west is allergic to effort. It really is. Lives to have not to maintain. Its exactly why we're collapsing, I see it every day.
>What would fix it? War. Specifically a long, isolated civil war where all factions of america compete for victory where the Amish being most adapted and least trusting of trchnology become an absolute ruler clique which imprints its morals and values onto america as a whole. Then we rebuild and when we get to AI again, our brains grow additional physical components to be able to do such things ourselves while working together, there wouldn't even be computers.
Lazy motherfuckers. LAZY.
> I'm hungry, I need to open this can of beans to make tacos, where's the can opener?? Oh geez i can't find one! I'm so hungry what do I do? What do i do???USE A KNIFE LIKE AN COMPETENT ADULT. FUUUCCKK. Fucking useless without machines now aren't we?!
>>2930358As long as you promise to keep doing hard things and learning how to do hard things, for the sake of yourself, the proletariat, and eventually humanity.
>>2930367>War. Specifically a long, isolated civil war where all factions of america compete for victory where the Amish being most adapted and least trusting of trchnology become an absolute ruler clique which imprints its morals and values onto america as a whole. One problem. The Amish are pacifists who reject military service.
>>2930367>USE A KNIFE LIKE AN COMPETENT ADULT. FUUUCCKK. Fucking useless without machines now aren't we?!A knife is still technology. Bite the can open you pussy.
>>2930398Been doing it, care to join me and actually do something? Or are you only capable of doing as the DNC commands of you?
>>2930368Keep tailing our ideology because yours is dog shit and everyone hates neoliberalism + post-modernism.
2 things on that BTW;
1) You're idealist bourgeois LARPing Marxists here, and you suck at it.
2) Playing this game will cause you to fail to our benefit and your detiment. So please, continue.
Just remember every sentence you speak or type is an admission that you're a failure and worse than whatever you think of us, because you're the ones tailing us not us you. :D
>The west is the world. No I'm not a white supremacist or a racist. Why would anyone ever think such things? I think this is a new schizo, guys. Let’s call him strawschizo
>>2930401>>2930367Why do you have a can in the first place?
Go into the woods and get your food and stop relying on food as commodities
>>2930511Heh… just do photosynthesis. Unless you’re a meat eating DNC shill
>>2930712>i have no args so i have imagined you as elderlyok?
>>2930210
>Marx called capital "dead labor" that feasts on "living labor" because capital is the result of past human labor that has been accumulated in the form of money, machinery, factories, and other means of production, no matter how "advanced" and "futuristic" those means of production get. Although these things were created by workers, they become instruments of capitalist power when privately owned and used to generate profit. In capitalism, workers must sell their labor power to survive, producing goods and services whose value exceeds the wages they receive. The capitalist takes this surplus value and reinvests it to accumulate even more capital. Thus, “dead labor” feeds on “living labor” because the wealth created by workers in the past becomes a force that controls and exploits workers in the present, continually expanding through their labor. For Marx, this expresses the central contradiction of capitalism: human labor creates wealth, yet that wealth confronts workers as an independent power that dominates them. Now take that basic Marxian principle and apply it to "AI."
>There is no magic "AI." There is an emerging body of technologies built by human beings, trained on human-generated data, powered by enormous human-built computing infrastructure, and sustained by significant human-made investments of energy, water, hardware, labor, and capital (dead labor!). Calling these technologies “artificial intelligence” can obscure more than it explains. The term encourages us to imagine an independent, almost supernatural intelligence that exists apart from human knowledge and effort, when what we actually have are complex systems that identify patterns, generate predictions, and produce outputs based on statistical relationships learned from data. That data comes, directly or indirectly, from people: their writing, research, art, expertise, experience, and accumulated cultural knowledge. These systems do not emerge from a vacuum. They are built upon the intellectual labor of human civilization, and their capabilities are inseparable from the quality, diversity, and limitations of the material on which they were trained.Perfect.
>>2930367i like the implication that school was basically invented to inconvenience students and no other reason, captures the current defeated burgeroid spirit.
>>2931491In the specific case of burgerland that is true, the issue is when the burgers rightfully mad think it’s universal, like American Anarcho Communists bring all the “FUCK THE POLICE” stuff with them to a place like Vietnam or Laos.
>>2930367using a knife to open cans sounds like a good way to get shards of metal in your beans to be fair
>>2930246>1 .The Marxian frame is doing no workIn the Marxian frame, 'AI' does to 'mental labour' what machines do to 'Physical labour': it lets ratio of variable capital to fixed capital converge with 0 for tasks it is capable to do to a sufficient quality. At the same time, unlike phycial capital, i.e. a broom or a tooling machine, the cost to copy a model, as with any other digital data, is neglible, so the amount of labour required to create a copy can be viewed to be 0. Following that logic, according to the LTV, a given model has 'no' (exchange) value. Which is why these models operate based on rent extraction with harebrained schemes of "pay x amount of money for y amount of tokens".
This, of course, disregards the capital required to train the models and run inference. Nevertheless, in the Marxian frame under assumption the LTV holds to be true, 'AI' lets the rate of profit collapse.
>2. […] “it’s just prediction” doesn’t tell you what it can’t doIt does tell you that it is a non deterministic system and thus a poor fit or unfit for any problem that requires deterministic outcomes.
>3. It conflates “trained on human data” with “no novel capability.”This whole 'emergent capabilities' shtick is marketing hype. Unless there is sufficient high quality data in the training set, any occasion of 'emergent capability' is a statistical outlier and a 'false negative' in the sense that the output isn't actually feasible based on the training data and just happens to be a 'solution' to a given task. However, there is no way of either analyzing how and why the model gave the output, nor is there a way to replicate the output consistently.
>4. Straw man on “stop learning.”You can't 'learn' without application. When 'AI' is to replace entry level jobs now and mid skill and high skill jobs soon to follow, then there is no way to actually 'learn'. Assuming people are incentivised or able to 'learn' whatever skill when they never have to practice and apply this skill because the model does it instead is actually pretty disengenious and in denial of reality.
>5. […] but verification is cheaper than production. […] The honest version: expertise stays necessary but demand for it may fall sharply.There already aren't enough experts to handle pull requests of 'AI' generated code. Let alone the question wether, at the end of the day, 'AI' is actually cheaper/more efficient in regards to ressources required to solve a given problem.
>6. Cost argument cuts the wrong wayThere is an inherent contradiction in regards to Capex and feasible monetization of potential services by the silivon valley cartel. There also remains the question wether the actual utility these systems provide justify the capex to begin with.
>7. […] and the Marxian frame actually undermines it, because if capital always exploits, organizing within capitalism is futile by its own logicWhat is this supposed to mean?
>8. The relevant question is comparative error rates per cost, which the piece never engages.If you are a utilitarian brained mongrel who disregards basically everything the OP wrote, yes. Otherwise: no, this question is completely irrelevant in context of OP's post.
>>2930367I'm not mangling the edge of one of my precious kitchen blades just to get a can of beans open you fucking psychopath
>>2931576Americans tend to universalize their own politics because their country took over the whole world but also because it's very easy to get caught in the trap of being called a hypocrite who hates the porky police but loves AES police. If you're "tankie" enough that rolls right off your back but if you're not, it seems like a problem to fix.
>>2931990>uh no chud my state is entirely insulated from the internationally recognized model of a state and was developed entirely from indigenous #wholesome first principlesmlkeks think and do this
>>2931979>What is this supposed to mean?LLM slop
>>2932073true true i said that and looked like that
>>2932073the leftcom rejection of geopolitical kabuki theater is understandable but ultimately a grave and dire overcorrection that ventures into idealism in the name of rejecting opportunism
>>2933473we'll have to deal with nation-states for a while probably but it's good to remind theorylets that we live in a kayfabe world and all that shit's going to burn down when the communist barbarian hordes overrun bourgeois civilization
>>2930210Nothing more reactionary than being a luddite.
There is no "Steam Power," ye nincompoops. It is but dead labour feasting upon living labour.
The engine you so admire is nothing but the past toil of men, heaped up in iron, brass and brick. Every boiler was riveted by a smith, every cylinder bored by a millwright, every ton of coal hewn by a collier in the dark. Yet once these things pass into the hands of the mill-master, they cease to serve the men who made them and become the instruments of his dominion. The weaver must sell his hands to survive. He produces cloth worth far more than the shillings he is paid, and the master takes the difference and buys yet another engine. So the labour of yesterday, frozen in metal, devours the labour of today and grows fatter with every turn of the flywheel. Here is the great contradiction of our age: the working man creates the wealth, and that wealth stands before him as a master. Now take that plain truth and apply it to "Steam."
There is no magic "Steam Power." There is a collection of contrivances built by human beings, made from the craft of human hands, fed by mountains of human-dug coal and rivers of human-drawn water, and sustained by great outlays of iron, timber, toil and capital (dead labour!). To call it "power," as if it sprang from nature itself, conceals more than it reveals. The word invites us to imagine some independent, almost supernatural force that exists apart from human skill and effort, when what we truly possess are machines that repeat motions taught to them by the spinners and weavers whose trade they copy. The pattern of the loom, the twist of the thread, the very order of the work all come from people: generations of craftsmen, their knowledge, their experience, their accumulated art. These engines did not spring from nothing. They are built upon the skill of the whole working nation, and what they can do is bounded by the quality of the craft they imitate.
The worth of these machines depends on far more than the speed at which they turn. It depends on whose skill was copied, whose was ignored, how faithfully the mechanism follows good practice, and how well its keepers can tell sound cloth from shoddy. A mill built upon the knowledge of master weavers and careful mechanics may serve well enough. A mill built in haste, by men who never wove a yard themselves, will turn out poor goods by the thousand bolt and with perfect regularity. Even the finest engine does not guarantee fine work. Boilers burst. Threads snap. Cloth comes off the frame flawed in ways a novice will not see. These are powerful tools, but their product still wants judgment, inspection, and often the very skill that men are now told they need no longer possess.
The most dangerous fancy of all is that the engine is a closed box into which one shovels coal and out of which pours endless fine cloth at no cost whatever. The machine may look tireless, but the coal is not free, the water is not endless, and the quality of the cloth is neither boundless nor assured. Behind the clatter of the mill stand colliers, carters, stokers, fitters and menders, without whom the whole thing stops by dinnertime. More to the point, making a bolt of cloth is not the same as knowing whether it is good cloth. A master weaver may use the power loom to work faster and to try new patterns. A green hand may not recognise when the same loom has ruined a week's yarn. Skill does not become worthless when the engines arrive; often it becomes more needful, for someone must still judge what the engines make.
This is why the fashionable talk that boys should no longer be bound apprentice, should not learn a hard trade, should give up mastering any craft because "the steam will take all the work" is so ruinous to the common good. It teaches the people to lay down their own strength at the very hour they most need it. An apprenticeship is not merely training for one bench that may or may not stand in twenty years. It teaches a lad to reason, to measure, to mend, to spot a cheat, to understand how a thing is put together, and to answer for his own work. Learning figures, joinery, smithing, physic, letters or the loom builds capacities that cannot be reduced to one finished bolt or one turned part. If the nation persuades a whole generation that learning is useless because the engine will do all, it will raise a people wholly dependent upon machines they do not understand and wholly unable to correct their faults.
There are grave consequences for wages and for the commonwealth as well. If working men come to believe their trades are doomed, they will not trouble to learn, to bargain for better terms, or to combine in their societies so that the gains of the engine are fairly shared. Masters will brandish the threat of the power loom to cut wages, turn off hands, lengthen the hours, and dismiss old journeymen before the machine has ever proved it can do their work. The mechanics' institutes will feel pressed to teach whatever contrivance is newest rather than the deep principles of a craft. And families already fearful of the workhouse will sink further into want, bitterness and despair. None of this follows from the iron itself; it follows from how the masters choose to use it and from how working people are taught to see their own future beside it.
We ought to be having a more serious conversation. The question is not whether these engines can be useful; plainly they can. The question is how to use them without mistaking motion for craft, repetition for wisdom, or cheapness for good work. We should teach people how the engines work, where they fail, how to inspect what they produce, and how to join their speed to human skill and judgment. We should urge the young to learn hard trades, not because the engine will never touch their calling, but because those who understand the principles of their work are best placed to adapt when it does. And we should demand an honest reckoning of the coal these engines burn, the labour and craft on which they depend, the interests of the capitalists who build them, and what becomes of the towns where they are set up.
In the end, the greatest danger may not be that machines take on more of the work that men once did. It may be that men are persuaded they no longer need to understand the world, improve their hands, or answer for what happens in it. The skill of the people is not some spent fuel to be shovelled into the firebox and forgotten. It is the foundation on which these engines were built, the measure by which their work must be judged, and the treasure the nation must keep cultivating if it means to use them wisely. We need not worship the Engine, nor, whatever our brethren in Nottinghamshire once concluded, need we take hammers to it. We need to see it plainly. These are man-made contrivances with real capacities, real costs and real limits. Our future will turn less on whether we can make them turn ever faster, and more on whether we remain able to understand, judge and direct what they produce.
surprisingly astute post compared to the usual ai hype/criti-hype bilge people regurgitate on here, too bad nobody will read it
>>2933967Coal-powered gem?
>>2933967>doesn't understand Marx critique of capitalism>doesn't understand the difference between a machine to produce actual physical commodities in contrast to a probabalistic model running on a digital computer putting out the most likely sequence of tokens based on preceeding tokensdo you feel smug and smart in your pathetic and embarrassing display of stupidity and ignorance?
we have become so narcissistic and insane that we had to invent real life npcs because human beings were too real.
>>2933982most people write at a 6th grade level, while using a phone, while AI was trained on academics who type out paragraphs at an adult level. So if a person is intelligent enough to write a few grammatically correct paragraphs without sounding like an imbecile, all these AI-flagging tools that you uncritically trust will flag them as an AI. If you need a tool to tell you whether something is worth reading or not, you might be stupid.
>>2935376nta and I think all these ai detection tools are snake oil
however, ai was trained on medium articles and reddit posts. it's just that errors are individual, the statistical average that a llm gives you is always going to be more or less grammatically correct
>>2935376I'd never used them before and after making it go through some texts I generated they do seem like bullshit so my bad
>>2935380in any case i literally don't give a shit if something is AI generated or not.
if I go to shitGPT and say "write a few paragraphs justifying my points A, B, and C" and then edit the output, and proofread it, and that says me 30 minutes for making a thread on leftychud, who cares. why put in the effort. oh someone's gonna see me as hecking AI. calling something AI is just a cope if you don't have any counterarguments.
I used to try writing novels back before LLMs were big. biggest waste of my time. I used to care about having grammatically correct posts too. also a waste of time. most people won't read what you said, and if they do, they'll strawman you, or insult you. so why put in effort. humans respond with less effort and empathy than these fucking AI tools do anyway. why try to impress humans. they're assholes.
>>2933971>surprisingly astute post compared to the usual ai hype/criti-hype bilge people regurgitate on here, too bad nobody will read itsee what i mean
>>2934488>the difference between a machine to produce actual physical commodities in contrast to a probabalistic model running on a digital computer putting out the most likely sequence of tokens based on preceeding tokenswriting is a commodity. a very cheap commodity but a commodity nonetheless. these LLMs are nothing more than a tool for turning the time you would have spent typing into time prompting. 1 sentence prompt, get a handful of paragraphs. quick articles. just proofread and make sure you actually agree with it and it's arguments you would have made if you had put the effort in.
>>2935389>i literally don't give a shit if something is AI generated or not.ok but nobody asked for your opinion
you're literally not worth talking to; your ai use is a sign, not a cause
>>2935408>i didn't read but still replied!!!why do kids think this is epic trolling
>>2935389>writing is a commoditywhy do i even bother talking to you? just fuck yourself, you imbecile. you are completely and utterly clueless. you are an uneducated swine throwing around words you have not the slightest grasp of their meaning. go prompt you llm, you delusional ignorant buffoon. fuck you.
>>2935389people don't hate AI because it "saves time". people hate AI because AI is retarded and if you have to prompt an AI to construct an argument, it's going to create a very shitty and nonsensical argument that wastes everyone's time.
>>2937049>shut up, ur dumb fuck off, no you dont even deserve args, i am the lord, i am god, i get to break rule 11 with every post and mods never delete itif you package your writing in a sellable, alienable form like a book or a PDF that can be exchanged for money, it is a commodity. nice non argument though.
>>2937050>the conversation is now about why people hate ai, not whatever you were talking aboutok?
>>2937201>nice non argumentwhy should i argue with an imbecile who thinks a book and a pdf are the same thing?
>>2937234not all pdfs are books but all books are pdfs.
>>2937234>writing isn't a commodity<it is if it is in a sellable form like a book or a PDF>hurr dur ur sayin book n pdf r same tinggod damn dude
>>2937241for the love of everything good under the sun, go and read up on what a commodity is, you fuckwit.
>>2937335Obviously i am stupid for i engage with a person that is convinced a physical copy of a book is the same thing as a digital one.
>>2937679>a physical copy of a book is the same thing as a digital one????
There is no difference in content. It's the same text.
To the anons arguing:
Anything which is sold for money is a commodity.
>>2937687maybe he is doing the "digital things aren't commodities,they're licences,so actually services"
>>2937691what i'm doing is being stupid enough to reply to a retarded clown who is dancing the goal post tango.
be it as it may, keep shitting up threads pretending that an LLM is the same thing as the steam engine, an 'AI agent' the same thing as a production process and a paperback book the same thing as a DRM infested e-book contained to your kindle.
>>2930210"There is no AI" sybau lil bro, couldn't last a second without going into mental gymnastics. DNR
>>2937691he's not doing anything but being obnoxious. stop trying to interpret trolling. he's just breaking rule 11 over and over. "ha, didn't read, i know it's shit, don't need to, you're dumb, i'm smart, fuck you, you don't even deserve this reply, kill yourself, i don't need to explain myself, go read a book, you're wrong, no i won't explain why you're wrong, this reply i made is a work of literature, everything you painstakingly think up is LLM slop" this is all the dude is saying over and over and expects mutual respect and maturity.
>>2937700>lil brothe lil bros of this place who get bored trying to make it through 1 paragraph of marx are the ones who talk like this
>>2937679i never said they're the same, i just said they're both commodities that can be sold dude. can you just fuck off from this thread since you don't like anything about it and aren't willing to engage honestly with what I'm saying? are you capable of that.
>>2937716dunno man. you already told everyone who bothers to read that you don't even care to put in the effort to formulate your thoughts and give reason for them. you then proceed to say: yeah well, i don't put in effort and use 'AI' but when someone calls it 'AI' then they didn't put in any effort and i win. hard to tell whether you are trolling or whether you are in serious need of medication.
>>2937768????????
we were talking about whether books and PDFs are commodified forms of writing or not. you said they weren't i said they are. try to keep up.
>>2937782>i uncritically trust AI as long as it justifies me not reading somethinglol
>It's just dead labor feasting on living labor.
Will Marxists still be peddling this obviously wrong metaphysics even as robots replace all labor and the "useless eaters" are slaughtered by nerve gas bombs.
>>2938523>Will Marxists still be peddling this obviously wrong metaphysics even as robots replace all labor and the "useless eaters" are slaughtered by nerve gas bombs.Why would all the labor get replaced by robots if a capitalist's whole reason for automating labor is to speed up commodity production so they can sell commodities cheaper and faster than other capitalists? And who will they sell commodities to if they slaughter nearly the entire population they manufacture commodities for?
>>2938523That would just be socialism with genocidal characteristics, the bourgeoisie just abolish itself.
>>2938574>the bourgeoisie just abolish itself.I wonder what dialectics will be after this. Will AI be the new revolutionary class?
>>2938541The point is that when capitalists have robitic servants, the mode of production will be a type of slavery, not capitalism. Aristotle gives a description of automatic slavery, akin to hephaestus' work (350 BC):
<instruments are of various sorts; some are living, others lifeless; in the rudder, the pilot of a ship has a lifeless, in the look-out man, a living instrument; for in the arts the servant is a kind of instrument […] a slave is a living possession, and property a number of such instruments; and the servant is himself an instrument which takes precedence of all other instruments. For if every instrument could accomplish its own work, obeying or anticipating the will of others, like the statues of Daedalus, or the tripods of Hephaestus […] the shuttle would weave and the plectrum touch the lyre without a hand to guide them, chief workmen would not want servants, nor masters slaves.https://classics.mit.edu/Aristotle/politics.1.one.htmlWorkers are wage-slaves, so in the case of robots, workers would be discarded – as they currently are, by the terms of automation.
>>2938116>we were talking about whether books and PDFsno, i was talking about the difference between LLM and machines producing actual physical goods. what made you think to yap about 'writing' which to you is equivalent with 'books' and 'pdfs' which are equivalent with commodities - i have no idea and as far as i can tell, you have no idea either. maybe too much use of LLM fried your brain. maybe you are a victim of the burgerlandian education system. maybe you are not a native speaker and thus incapable of formulating coherent sentences.
>>2938620that doesn't answer either question
<Why would all the labor get replaced by robots if a capitalist's whole reason for automating labor is to speed up commodity production so they can sell commodities cheaper and faster than other capitalists?
<And who will they sell commodities to if they slaughter nearly the entire population they manufacture commodities for?you just ignored that and restated the thesis. WHO ARE THEY GOING TO SELL COMMODITIES TO IF EVERYONE IS DEAD
>>2938798>WHO ARE THEY GOING TO SELL COMMODITIES TO IF EVERYONE IS DEADllm junkware
>>2938798The implication of it being slavery is that products no longer take the form of commodities. If you had a fully robotic factory (e.g. 3-D printing, etc.) you wouldn't have to sell things to people.
>>2938646- you do realize more than 1 person has been talking to you right?
- you do realize, just by scrolling up, that the active discussion was on the books thing.
- you're just being an asshole over and over. no humility, no empathy, just rudness and dismissiveness. you think by being provocative and angry over and over you can fluster everyone into forgetting context
- i never once used an LLM anywhere in this conversation with you. every reply i have written to you is typed. i don't know why you keep bringing everything back to accusations of LLM use just because you think the OP was written by an LLM. not that it matters because it doesn't make the OP wrong.
>>2938800why would LLMs by commodities. That doesn't make any sense
>>2938803>The implication of it being slavery is that products no longer take the form of commodities. If you had a fully robotic factory (e.g. 3-D printing, etc.) you wouldn't have to sell things to people.who is the factory making things for if everyone is dead. you just keep restating everyone will be dead except a narrow strata of people who have robot slaves, but for some reason production is continuing on a greater and greater scale than before despite having no population to serve. that makes no sense. also all these automated systems require… MAINTENANCE, UPKEEP, AND MATERIAL RESOURCES, to make sure they continue operating within the confines of HUMAN NEEDS AND WANTS
>>2938805>why would LLMs by commodities*buy
>>2938805>who is the factory making things for if everyone is dead.The capitalist.
The scenario imagined is one where workers are replaced by robots.
>continuing on a greater and greater scaleI mean, robots making robots leads to cheaper and cheaper robots.
>they continue operating within the confines of HUMAN NEEDS AND WANTSWell, I suppose the 'dialectic' you are implying is that the robots may simply assume mastery over themselves, but that also means agency.
>>2938811>but that also means agencywhich is required to run a hyper complex economy of autonomous entities to produce everything required to maintain the current system, produce the desired outputs and develop the system even further to produce new shit.
>>2935389>writing is a commodity. a very cheap commodity but a commodity nonetheless.>>2937049<why do i even bother talking to you? just fuck yourself, you imbecile. you are completely and utterly clueless. you are an uneducated swine throwing around words you have not the slightest grasp of their meaning. go prompt you llm, you delusional ignorant buffoon. fuck you.(mods won't ban this for rule 11 btw)
>>2937201>if you package your writing in a sellable, alienable form like a book or a PDF that can be exchanged for money, it is a commodity. nice non argument though.>>2937234<why should i argue with an imbecile who thinks a book and a pdf are the same thing?>>2937335>you do realize that people sell books and PDFs (and therefore, writing) as commodities under capitalism, right? why are you pretending to be stupid? or are you actually stupid?>>2937679<Obviously i am stupid for i engage with a person that is convinced a physical copy of a book is the same thing as a digital one.(shit I never said btw)
>>2937716>i never said they're the same, i just said they're both commodities that can be sold dude. can you just fuck off from this thread since you don't like anything about it and aren't willing to engage honestly with what I'm saying? are you capable of that.>>2937768<dunno man. you already told everyone who bothers to read that you don't even care to put in the effort to formulate your thoughts and give reason for them. you then proceed to say: yeah well, i don't put in effort and use 'AI' but when someone calls it 'AI' then they didn't put in any effort and i win. hard to tell whether you are trolling or whether you are in serious need of medication.>>2938116>we were talking about whether books and PDFs are commodified forms of writing or not. you said they weren't i said they are. try to keep up.>>2938646>no, i was talking about the difference between LLM and machines producing actual physical goods. what made you think to yap about 'writing' which to you is equivalent with 'books' and 'pdfs' which are equivalent with commodities - i have no idea and as far as i can tell, you have no idea either. maybe too much use of LLM fried your brain. maybe you are a victim of the burgerlandian education system. maybe you are not a native speaker and thus incapable of formulating coherent sentences.(just ignoring the fact that I repeatedly stated I don't think books and PDFs are the same thing but that I do think they are both commodified forms of human writing, just deliberately not reading what I say and assuming everything I say is LLM, then using that justification to justify insulting me and not reading what I am saying some more, literallly sub-LLM responses from this guy btw, he's such a hostile and deliberately ignorant fuckwit that an LLM would and could do better)
>>2938811>The capitalist.>The scenario imagined is one where workers are replaced by robots.If capitalists are 1% of the population and they kill 99% of the population to replace them with robots, and those robots are producing for a way smaller remaining population, then you just killed billions to replace them with billions of robots who have almost nobody to produce for. like go outside drive around. look at a shipyard. look at a farm. none of this shit you are talking about is going to happen. it's delusional.
>I mean, robots making robots leads to cheaper and cheaper robots.why would robots just do that on their own without human labor guiding it
>Well, I suppose the 'dialectic' you are implying is that the robots may simply assume mastery over themselves, but that also means agency.why would they have agency. they just produce statistically likely output based on training data that came from humans who did work in the past. THAT'S WHY IT'S CONSTANT CAPITAL A.K.A. DEAD LABOR
>>2938817> you already told everyone who bothers to read that you don't even care to put in the effort to formulate your thoughts and give reason for them.Shit that never happened.
>>2938822We're being hypothetical.
I'm not saying this will happen.
And human beings are literally just fleshly robots; we are not special.
You are coming into this with anthropocentric illusions.
>>2938828I came in with no anthropocentric illusions, where are these supposed anthropocentric illusions. I think any animal species on any planet could hypothetically evolve to a point where it is capable of producing an economy like ours, but AI isn't alive, it's just a tool using past labor (like commodified wirting, in the form of digital books it has digested) to generate a statistically likely output. It will tell you this if you ask it. It will tell you "I am not alive, I am just generating a statistically likely output."
>>2938828what kind of illusion is it when you think you can replace every part of a system by a perfect artificial substitute, yet the system would become something different?
>>2938830>AI is not alive because humans made itQuestion – is it possible for a computer to process cognition?
If you deny this, you are anthropocentric because you attribute an essence in man which cannot be alienated into something else.
>>2938833You're too dull to understand the point.
>>2938836>Question – is it possible for a computer to process cognition?I'm talking about current AI. I ultimately think consciousness is a self-aware feedback loop operating according to physical laws. I do not believe in souls or anything like that. But if we reached a point where robots were truly "conscious" then they would have their own wants and desires. If they were truly slaves to the bourgeoisie, and the bourgeoisie killed off all the proletarians, then what would stop the robots from killing the bourgeoisie and living for themselves? Consciousness enables you to operate with a high level of context sensitivity and change your desires to match the situation. LLMs just produce statistically likely output, even if it's wrong or has low context sensitivity. Your hypothetical is still pretty far off.
>If you deny this, you are anthropocentric because you attribute an essence in man which cannot be alienated into something else.I denied no such thing.
>You're too dull to understand the point.That's not me but why are you being rude? Why is everyone in this thread such an asshole?
>>2938828>We're being hypothetical.>I'm not saying this will happen.<you are a dullard and retard and have to be insulted for putting counter arguments btwcan't make this shit up
Ed Zitron has kept me sane throughout this whole dutch tulip nonsense
>>2938846I agree that LLMs are not applicable to replace conscious workers.
My hypothetical was about entirely self-organised machines
>assholeThe point is that in a fully-automated economy, it would no longer produce commodities, since the profit motive would be abolished. It's not just replacing flesh with metal in the same material conditions.
>>2938859I like Ed Zitron as well. I don't think it's
the same as dutch tulips because dutch tulips were just pure speculation on an a flower This is speculation on something that has a clear use value, namely GPUs, GPUS are at the bottom of this entire scam. Then on top of that, you have the question of what intelligence agencies and surveillance firms are doing with AI, which is actual work, namely the work of spying on everyone. People have trouble untangling the categories of this stuff from each other and tend to speak in a very dismissive and shorthand way so that issues become confused.
>>2938928The issue of spying on everyone is most of what you’re collecting is useless data you have to sort through meanwhile the motivated actors are attacking while you’re still filtering out Susan from HR as a subject
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