/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

Self-hating bourgesisie

Psychology is bourgeois pseudoscience

>>2931768
Trvth

>>2931768
>complex system hard to understand
>ItS PsEuDoScIeNcE!!!
Glad you faggots were killed off in the purges.
You probably think atomic weapons aren't real either.

>>2931778
Nuclear weapons arent real and atomic theory is also bourgeois pseudoscience

>>2931812
I call genius

>>2931748
>Am I retarded or something?
<Think lightly of yourself and deeply of the world.
>I see so many who want communism when under stress and then lose interest to it when they go up the economic ladder
Perhaps it is beacuse they are opprotunists of a sort. "Interested" in "communism" as a means to better their position while amongst the immiserated masses but once their position improves, the radicalism bleeds away because it becomes less useful to maintain their position. Still, I doubt you can see into the minds of people to confirm if their radicalism is not a mask for short term self-interested resource accumulation.
>I don't want communism when under stress and want more gibs for myself.
A more realist opportunism? Understanding that communism can only be brought about from a position of power and relative stability on the part of the revolutionaries, that immediate survival under a capitalist system often nessecitates a ruthless attitude.
Either way, I am no psychoanalyist. I don't think either mindset are nessecarily mutually exclusive in one person given different situations.
>I think this aspect of human nature is missed often in leftist discourse
I think it is well understood by most mature radicals that people will generally act in their short term self-interest even when espousing radical ideas or appearing to act in a "morally communist" way while capitalism is mostly uncontested. Whatever behavioural changes happen to people in times during and after revolution is a matter of pure speculation imo and not especially useful in our current situation compared to the importance of building organizations and frameworks capable of adapting to unexpected changes.

>>2931748
>Am I retarded or something?
Yes.

link to that political slop personality test?

>>2931837
https://12axes.vercel.app/
Not sure about the other one.

>>2931748
Its likely easier to succeed in capitalism (already very hard) than to deal with the various dumb asses here and irl who will never do anything valuable or even agree on what is valuable and worth doing. when you have nothing you make the wise decision of avoiding this shithole because you cant waste energy and conserve your mental strength but when you have time and mental capacity you come here thinking something may improve but it never will

>>2931826
>behavioural changes during and after revolution is a matter of pure speculation
>importance of building organizations and frameworks capable of adapting to unexpected changes.
I think these two statements are inherently contradictory. The organizations need to have an understanding of the behavioral changes and that is the blind spot of much of leftism.

>>2931848
Too be fair, there is no imageboard like leftypol. I want to go to 4chan but I hate being permanently archived. Plus the captcha is annoying.

>dengoid was a literal porky all along
cannot make this shit up

>>2932280
>I think these two statements are inherently contradictory.
Let me rephrase it then. I think the organizations must adopt theory and structures which allow them to adapt to unexpected behavioural changes instead of hedging their bets on any particular theoretical changes in behaviour or a specific, rigid model of behaviour. It is difficult to know how people will react to social upheval beforehand, more useful is knowing how to respond to any possible reactions.
The mark of a good swordsman is not their technique with a single weapon but their appreciation for timing and distance. The swordsman may wield many swords and utilize many techniques but they are deadly because they can navigate the void between them and their opponent.


I have an idea I'm trying to articulate and I'm not sure it's being articulated very well. Still, I think you're right that there is something of a blind spot but I am not educated enough to speak on what form it takes.

You're not the first to experience that, interacting with what amount to autists with hyper focus on the communist movement will kill any hope you might have for it.

When that happens, take confort on the fact that these people do not exist outside the internet, and the damage they may cause is limited.

>>2932280
>Plus the captcha is annoying.
Holy fucking truth nuke. I dropped by for the first time in a decade and was confronted with the most annoying captcha system ever designed. Who the fuck invented that shit? No wonder that site is basically dead and run by bots no one sane wants to go through that for every post.

>>2932440
Based swordsman analogy. I like your thinking and it is articulated well.

I have a theory of that might be useful under transition to communism in america:
>most plebs are apolitical until it touches their wallets
>plebs hate being reminded they are animals in a zoo
>plebs instinctively have no vision for a hopeful future
>plebs are atomized
<based leader needs to have charisma and competency
<needs to be a professional pleb-wrangler
<needs to give hope to plebs
<needs to instill revolutionary optimism and discipline in them
<"Be strong to help the weak become strong like you. We need an army of PATRIOTS"
<"EVERY MAN A KING. ONE MAN ARMY, ALL ONE ARMY"
<Needs to be done simultaneously with a DoTP
<Use insurance and real estate data for coefficients in IO tables and LP matrices
<Centrally planned corporations need to have a parallel management government staff in accounting complementing inhouse management
<Cooperatives within a central plan as part of ecosystem and individual freelancers
<reduce red tape and taxes and borrwing
<government owned corporations serving retail until command given to fulfill plan, then back to retail.
<dynamic planning to achieve strategic goals of improving material and spiritual conditions of working families
<National conscription for civilian work when students turn 16, include separate conscription for a militia military training with taking weapons home after completing it
<Make university level material part of elective high school curriculum
<Merge part of health, agriculture and education so farms can provide good food to students and health so everyone knows how to take care of their bodies
<Mandatory physed for rest of high school
<Overhaul Bachelors, Masters, Doctorate system. It hinders good education
<promote Peer Reproducibility over Peer Review
I ate too much cocainum so forgive me if this seems all over the place

>>2932443
I have turbo schizo autism so that is not much of an issue. Book worship and retarded idealism plus sloganeering is my cancer. I've met a few people like that irl. Sad how a some marxists turned it into a religion because they lost hope in everything else and need a panacea. We are stuck in a stillborn revolutionary circumstance. Tocqueville was right, until things get better, there won't be revolution. Only submission to the ruling class.
>>2932445
/pol/ was created by "palm bEach pEtE" so no surprises there.

>>2932445
>wait 60 seconds to request captcha
>4 match the image puzzles
>5 images with scroll bar
>1/4 completed
Bailed out.
Gayest shit to ever exist.
4cuck should die already.

>>2931748
>I see so many who want communism when under stress and then lose interest to it when they go up the economic ladder, but to me it's the opposite.
You've leveled up in the dialectic and are ready to take the next pill and discover that Marxism is a bourgeois ideology because bourgeois ideology encompasses both the ideas which capitalist society understands and uses to reproduce itself but also the contradictions with those ideas such as the one between the promise of universal human emancipation of the bourgeois revolution and the particular social relations of bourgeois society.

>>2932487
<based leader needs to have charisma and competency
<needs to be a professional pleb-wrangler
<needs to give hope to plebs
<needs to instill revolutionary optimism and discipline in them
Be careful with this line of thinking. The goal, after all, is to build class power and raise the people to the level of revolutionaries, not subordinate them to a fascistic-adjacent personality cult wherein class is subsumed by personality. Don't get me wrong, I don't think having good leaders is bad by any means but in our modern world, they should not become irreplacable. If we are to talk on this matter, it should be a matter of "leadership must" instead of "the leader must", whatever form that leadership structure takes be it a radicalized union, a revolutionary communist party or anarchist association.

Instead of finding or grooming a particular exceptional individual, the means to raise a stable supply of adequate leaders before shit hits the fan is nessecary. Class conflict is a dynamic and rapidly evolving war without clear front lines, central command staff in such a situation must allow officers to have a great degree of autonomy and trust in their ability.
We find ourselves with a few radicals itching to become generals when we have a massive shortage of NCOs, how are we to win a war like this? Sun Tzu wrote on this.
>By commanding the army to advance or to retreat, being ignorant of the fact that it cannot obey. This is called hobbling the army.
No leader can witness every sector at once, it relies on officers to communicate effectively and interpret the situation from their sector. How often I encounter marshals at rallies or people acting in a first aid capacity who fail to communicate clearly with their team! No single leader can correct this as the nature of relaying the lived experience of the front is ever a bottom-up matter.
>By attempting to govern an army in the same way as he administers a kingdom, being ignorant of the conditions which obtain in an army. This causes restlessness in the soldier's minds.
The plebs, if lead by a leader with a narrow understanding of what leadership is, who treats the people as an extension of their will instead of people to cultivate, will see right through it and become distustful.
>By employing the officers of his army without discrimination, through ignorance of the military principle of adaptation to circumstances. This shakes the confidence of the soldiers.
We see this in many organizations, the delegation of tasks simply according to whoever is available or whoever puts their hands up without taking well into consideration if that task is well suited to that individual… or nessecary at all.

>>2932511
>subordinate them to a fascistic-adjacent personality cult wherein class is subsumed by personality
the class system can only be abolished by charismatic strongmen. lenin proved it. stalin proved it. we need more cults of personality, not less. look at the damage Khrushchev did by destroying the cult of personality. as soon as the strongman image was gone the USSR started collapsing in on itself. people need their big daddy to look up. denying this is pointless it's just basic human psychology which we should manipulate to achieve socialism.

>>2932520
People unironically think that and then cry when you bring up Sorel btw

>>2932520
Comrade, I think it's a mistake to abolish class systems just yet. You, for example, could do with a few classes on the following:
>English
>History
>Philosophy
>Psychology
>Anthropology
That aside, every strong man is temporary, nothing is strong forever. Indeed, men are strong in different ways with various strengths suited to various tasks. To imagine that all we need is a strong man is ridiculous. You're either ignorant or poorly utilizing sarcasm, I cannot tell.

>>2932521
That's because Sorel was a fascist who only supported the rising socialist movement because he wanted it to frighten the bourgeoisie into becoming strong predators again. Read The Apprentice's Sorcerer by Ishay Landa for the full explanation.

>>2932524
And yet you agree with him that myth-making can be the basis that moves the masses

>>2931841
Bullshit test. It keeps labeling me "social fascist" even though it also ranks me as a progressive, says I have a 93% match with Ho Chi Minh, and says the closest country to me is Cuba under Castro. I even took the long version.

>>2933874
I guess he really is inevitable. I accept my fate. See you at the voting booth, anon.

>>2934183
>I guess he really is inevitable.
Qrd on Lasalle?
I am new to communism so I only know him from Marx's rants and the Watchman State.

>>2931748
Possibly it is due to perceptions of scarcity. Generally, rightists believe that there are not enough resources to go around so we should decide who to throw under the bus to make sure the in-group gets their due, while leftists generally believe there are plenty of resources to go around but that they are unfairly distributed. In your case, playing with this ad-hoc, we might imagine that an impression of scarcity is created by the prospect of the business failing, but once you do your work and know the business is safe, the perception of scarcity recedes.

>>2935938
> that an impression of scarcity is created by the prospect of the business failing, but once you do your work and know the business is safe, the perception of scarcity recedes.
>leftists generally believe there are plenty of resources to go around but that they are unfairly distributed
Thank you for the intelligent post.
Have a (you) deer leftychud